Out Dated Point System Or Not?

Ok I just left a Dynamis LS recently because they are using what I believe to be an out dated points system and was curious to if I am wrong or not.

First you only get 1 point per run no matter when you get there (Example you show up and enter 20 minutes before finish)or when you leave. Drops by points City Relic cost 4 points Beaucedine drops cost 6 points Xarcabard/Tavnazia are 8 points and all accessories are 8 points. The only type of priority is you pick what set you want when you join and if you want to change you have to spend 8 points. When a piece of relic drops that multiple people need whoever has more points gets it even if the person with less points has been on the list longer.

I don't so much mind the cost of the drops as I do the amount of points given per run and the priority system. So am I wrong for thinking this system is out dated?

It's highly flawed. If you accumulate points why would you set the costs for 4 or 6 but still go by who has higher points.

That basically means people with 90+ points get whatever they want with minimal point loss.

Essentially they could get something for 3 points (because they got 1 point for that run).

You should at least have a type of bid system and whoever bid the most lost whatever points they bid.

HIGHLY unfair to new members in the long run it sounds like.

Not sure how a point system is something that can be out dated. But IMO that system does suck. Just come to Ifirt i dyna shells open lot cities.

btw i run a point system with my dynamis where you get 3 points per run if you are there start to end. If you arrive late or leave early it's adjusted.

Our points also cap at 60 so no matter what if you hit 60 points you can't go over. Bids are bids. Mostly stuff like RDM hat or THF hands people HAVE to save up 60 points for and wait for. If two people have 60 and bid on RDM hat they lot for it... simple as that.

Also you have to have the job 75 to be able to lot a job, none of that 65+ crap.

Clinpachi system is much better. But 65+ crap. Thats the level you can enter those zones. So why if someone has the points would they not be able to lot? Getting something like rdm hat or thf th4 would surely get them to finish the job asap also.

I'm sorry but if your a 65 thief... and you have 75's thiefs... why in the god name of hell would you give it to the 65 when he cant even use it right away?.

Little dumb stuff nobody cares about like DRG feet sure lol.

Cause thats what the have chosen to spend there points on. just my 2 cents its our shell.

yea ive suggested such a system to the leaders of the ls wnd they wouldnt budge. I was also suggesting 3 points per run as follows: 1 point for arriving on time and ready, 1 point for staying til boss or at least 90 minutes, and 1 point for staying after boss for farming.

Also what I meant by out dated was that anymore you need some sort of a bid system because like Clin said this system is unfair to newer people and favors older members by letting them get to the top and stay there with ease

and they also had the cap system like clinpachi is talking about but they did away with it

I guess that's a preference but that's just nuts giving TH4 or RDM hat to a 65 :| just sayin~ lol.

No cap is ok for some shells... but my sky has a 100 point cap... and dynamis has a 60 point cap...

You can't just let someone build 1000 points and have them get gear from xarcabard for 6 points.. when they get 1 point... and continue to screw people for anything they want every time.

You have to draw the line somewhere in fairness.

If they have mostly veteran members and rarely accept new people i would just keep looking.

If it works for them that's fine...

I totally agree with a cap because its going to benefit your LS more if you let your 75 RDM get Relic Head vs a 65 RDM or if you let your 75 PLD get Relic body over a 65 it just makes more sense.

I understand that if they earned the points aspect though... but at the same time... if they earned the points... stop dyna for a short time and EARN the right to equip it first.

whatever you do outside dynamis has nothing to do with the actual time/work you put INTO dynamis imo. say a new 75 thf joins the shell and wants thf cuffs. lets also say someone thats been going for months and months and months decides he wants them too for the thf he's currently leveling. they drop.

should the guy whos put zero time in get em just because he has 75 ? who will then bail from the ls right after anyway, getting a top piece in a short time >.>

ultimately, the leaders of the LS could give a ***less about the relic armor that drops. the DKP system set in motion just has to keep the long term members happy. the new people get table scraps, and they'll be happy.

if they keep a high turn-over rate, they'll keep being able to throw table scraps to the new people and long term people (core members, leaders etc) get to have the drops that matter. all the while, they're raking in the massive amounts of cash that dynamis produces.

it's how it works. they care just enough about the dkp to keep the people sated. if you leave after 5 runs b/c the DKP system sucks, they don't care, in fact, they kinda planned it.

thats why you have a bid point system so that a new 75 THF can not come in and immediately get what they want. But at the same time if you have been waiting months and months and months should you not have the job at 75 by now? Like Clinpachi said mabye should take a break and job so that mabye your claim to the gear is more legit

Completely flawed logic... the new 75 obviously wont win TH4 hands anytime soon anyways... and if no other THF's in the shell are 75 and hes 65 THEN as a leader you could give them to him.

If the 75 earns/caps points enough to bid TH4 hands... and that THF is STILL 65... he flat out don't need them or play THF anyways.

And just because someone has a job 65 and can enter dynamis as that... you wouldn't want them to. Unless it's their only job or they can't beat maat theres no use in someone coming 65 to dynamis anyways. (unless your a WHM RDM or mage job that doesnt make too big of a difference)

sorry but THATS failed logic imo...

no one NEEDS anything.. everyone just wants stuff. a 75 pld that full time tanks @ their ls events doesnt NEED a x piece any more than a new player with out even a single 75. he just wants its, and arguably deserves it more.

im sorry, but theres no way i can capitulate with giving someone something just because they have jobs fitting the piece atm, and ONLY that. rewards are awarded for the time/effort you put into something. how i level my jobs should have no bearing on what im able to/not able to lot, only the time and effort put into said group.

not to mention youd be an idiot putting level restrictions on a dynamis group in the first place. if you have a system that handles run by run basis instead of long term, usually you will let everyone select a main/sub, and anything dropped not being listed by someone going to free lot. how can you know for sure who even has 75 mains or subs they list, much less a level x whatever job for free lot. ive always laughed at groups when they say "free lot to 65 and above, free lot to 75s, or whatever". youll get like 2 people being honest and about 20 saying *** that.

so simple, you let people choose a main/sub regardless of level, and free lot ***is free lot regardless of level. if everyones in the same boat, no one can ever ***..

edit: this is talking about a run by run basis group.. but even with a long term system governing all runs, it still boiils down to who deserves it more. someone having a 75 able/ready to equip something should never be the deciding factor in lot delegation.

Please explain to me how giving a RDM hat or TH4 to a person who stays 65 for a long period of time instead of a 75 is failed logic.

Do go on.

if theyve put in just as much to merit their being able to lot, the level doesnt make a difference to me. if person A is 65 thief, and i even KNOW he has no intention to finish leveling anytime soon, but attends 100%.. and person b has only even been around half as long, and attends like ***too lets say, but has a 75 thf ready and able to use..

i dont care what jobs person A has or plans to have.. he put the work in, he deserves it. when person B has as much precedence to be lotting too, so be it.

but im not going to award/take away something from someone that doesnt deserve it on genuine merit.

You're kidding, right?

brb getting a DChap for my 37 RDM... It's not gonna see 75 til mid-summer, but I deserve it a hell of a lot more than the 75 RDMs in my shell.

Systems that don't impose a minimum level lotting requirement to bid/prio are *** stupid. It opens the door to gear whoring (even more than level requirements do), sniping out of spite, and seeing valuable items go unused for a potentially ridiculous amount of time. You can wear you can lot, 65+, whatever, but don't let just anyone pick up valuable AF2.

EDIT: At your above, that's what points systems are for.

Addressing your edit i can agree on SOME things... SOME...

but the following types of items:

TH4
RDM hat
BLM body/hat
Byakko Pants
Crimson Pants

JUST those as a single set of exmples...

You are simply out of your mind if you give them to anyone who doesn't even have the jobs to use them.

Even suggesting you give a 50-60 THF TH4 or a 50-60 PLD for crimson pants soley based on points is ludicrous.

Sure congrats to them if you do it that way, but unless your THF's and PLD's all already own it, you just hindered the progress of your shell as a whole.

It's not asking a lot to have your job able to at least use a piece of gear you want to lot.

You are my new favorite person for the night <3

dude, if your attendance and/or whatever else governs peoples lotting priorities say you deserve it more than other/all rdms in the shell, 75 or otherwise, cool. if not, then you should have no reason to *** about not being able to lot it.

if i attend an event same as anyone else, who the *** is to tell me what i want for something in the future (maybe even giving up stuff "i should get" for jobs i already have), is unacceptable.

if the other 75 rdms have just as much precedence to be lot, awesome, its a bid war. but if ive been going for a year, and theyve been going for a month.. and im not @ neg/0/low points having been getting other ***that whole time. yeah, i dont care how much more useful a piece might be to someone else atm.. if i want it, and i earned it over them, damn right id be pissed giving it up.

there arent to many groups with level restrictions here, on anything, for all said reasons >.>, i would never participate in one either, so thankfully this is w/e to me lol
im just playin devils advocate

If your RDM isn't 70+ you don't deserve a RDM hat from xarcabard period. And that's putting it mildly giving a circumstance a RDM hasn't been able to beat maat.

End of story.

Basically you condone people getting whatever they want regardless of if it's level 1.

Bold for the most ridiculous statement. You basically say you choose what you want... when you want it... regardless of if you can use it or not. How do you even justify lotting a RDM hat on a level 37 RDM? "i deserve it"?

I don't give a flying *** how long you have been with the LS or HOW many points you spend. Shitting all over your 75 RDM LS mates out of a RDM hat you can't even use for MONTHS is inexcusable and i feel bad for any LS that allows it.

I can also see many people leaving that shell when they see it happen.

I don't even... Priorities wru, and I'm not talking about the 1) and 2) I put in /seacom on Monday and Friday nights.

I'm not even going to apply logic anymore, this has to be a horrible troll because this is like me saying

"Hey guys thanks for inviting me... i have BRD and DNC leveled but i am after THF hands RDM hat and BLM stuff maybe..."

"I don't have them 75 most are 40-60 but RDM is 37. i'll get them sometime soon"


It's also like linkshell LEADERS i've seen say:

"kay guys i made this LS... and i want TH4 even though its only 37. I'll get it up there"

There is no excuse or justification for it period.

everything going to ppl below 75 (or maybe 70-75...) OVER someone who also want to lot it with useing points is a waste of AF for the LS. I guess the only LS who do 65+ to lot on stuff with useing points must be beginner shells where maybe some even dont have 75 and they want to keep ppl attracted in the ls cause they give out AF that eary. Other than that i couldnt think this helps a LS.
Expecially for good af like said above, RDM head or body or blm head, thf hands and so on 75 should be a requirement.

Dont get me wrong, i dont have anything against freelot 65+ if noone 75 bids on it or even freelot 0+ if noone 65+ needs it. But when ppl bid on it with points, they should be able to equip it.

The point system the OP mentioned seems very outdated. Even the 60 cap of points is nicer then this cause it doesnt enable newer ppl to actually have a chance on gear (and since its only dynamis points which cap at 60 seems fair this way)

and well in my ls RDM af2 head goes out for 150-200 points lol so 60 seems very low for me^^ but we have another system then you. But in my LS Hachiryu Haramaki also went out for around 500 XD

We have a very very fair point system, doubt there exist many other out there similar to ours in fairness. We give around 1 point/hr and all events in 1 pot. We do ZNM/Dynamis/Sea/Sky/Limbus/Pastfomors/einherjar/Bv2 and much more. Events that give money to the ls all go into ls bank and those event give extra money points, after the end of the month(or when a nice potion of money is in the bank) it goes out to members based on those money points. Ppl can farm in their freetime popitems for sky or sea and they get Bonus points for them. We have a bidding system on our forum which closes events 30 min before start time so ppl can see the bids :) And yea... for sure you can only bid when you can wear it ;) And yea if you think "what you do with so many points?!" We also offer to support relic coins to ppl with stage 4 (or 25% done with a vote of the ls) for points traded in^^
(we are recruting if anyone is interested lol.... enough promotion sry :x w)

i personally think it would be ludicrous to give a pld or thf either or simply because they had the job. if you wanna talk about hindering a shell, THATs going to lead to a lot more ppl leaving after they get said items, than people NOT leveling up jobs to wear key pieces.

not to mention the success of group isnt contingent on the rewards after the fact. rather, and literally, the other way around.

members are rewarded for their attendance in the things i do, and i personally like it. if you show up, and work, youll get your ***. if you dont and/or just *** around, you wont ::shrugs::.

its the time you spend assisting the group in whatever event that should be rewarded, not the time outside (having nothing to even do with it).