July 2018 Version Update

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July 2018 Version Update
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 Asura.Toralin
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By Asura.Toralin 2018-07-09 17:38:45
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I made one for a guy, he reported it only affected himself, no more details than that (brd dagger)
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By Nyarlko 2018-07-09 18:35:56
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Asura.Toralin said: »
I made one for a guy, he reported it only affected himself, no more details than that (brd dagger)


:"(

... shoulda at least milked him for a bit more info, like do all the stats work in offhand? >_>
 Asura.Toralin
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By Asura.Toralin 2018-07-09 18:42:54
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Nyarlko said: »
Asura.Toralin said: »
I made one for a guy, he reported it only affected himself, no more details than that (brd dagger)


:"(

... shoulda at least milked him for a bit more info, like do all the stats work in offhand? >_>
He said it had to be in main hand
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2018-07-09 20:50:52
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Asura.Toralin said: »
He said it had to be in main hand

You mean like the Acc/Racc/Macc+50? Ouch, if those only apply in mainhand that's a serious blow to the Katana as a potential offhand.

Fudo Masamune would be a likely BiS offhand for NIN in a lot of situations if those stats (and the Atk+15 per shadow) work when offhanded. If those don't work in offhand, it's a pretty useless NIN weapon (unless augments make it worth mainhanding over Relic/Empy/Aeonic).
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-07-09 22:22:51
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How do they manage to make weapons that are arguably garbage and still don't allow them to operate in the offhand? Need clarification or this will be pretty silly for dual wielders. Can't imagine that being true
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-07-09 22:39:22
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
How do they manage to make weapons that are arguably garbage and still don't allow them to operate in the offhand? Need clarification or this will be pretty silly for dual wielders. Can't imagine that being true

SE Logic:

Competitive with REMA. REMA don't work offhand. These don't either.

It's really easy to understand why when you don't use SE logic.

It would be rather weird though if you don't get the HP and acc stats
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By clearlyamule 2018-07-09 23:21:19
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Competitive with RMEAs and by that we mean Gungnir tier RMEAs
 Valefor.Yandaime
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By Valefor.Yandaime 2018-07-09 23:31:35
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Well, a nice thing RDM can do is buff people across the alliance in different parties. It's pretty cool that a single RDM can Flurry and Haste II the entire alliance, while still enfeebling all the NMs (helping the entire alliance from 1 slot)


Please excuse me... but you’ve lost your mind if you think someone’s gonna solo-buff a whole alliance, AND debuff, AND other stuff xD.

(Yes, yes, I know there are some that wouldn’t mind but that’s still a lot lol)
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-07-09 23:45:30
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Valefor.Yandaime said: »
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Well, a nice thing RDM can do is buff people across the alliance in different parties. It's pretty cool that a single RDM can Flurry and Haste II the entire alliance, while still enfeebling all the NMs (helping the entire alliance from 1 slot)


Please excuse me... but you’ve lost your mind if you think someone’s gonna solo-buff a whole alliance, AND debuff, AND other stuff xD.

(Yes, yes, I know there are some that wouldn’t mind but that’s still a lot lol)

Depends on the quality of gear, my RDM has Haste II's that last over 8 minutes, self cast lasts over 21 minutes, effectively forever.
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2018-07-09 23:50:44
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Valefor.Yandaime said: »
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Well, a nice thing RDM can do is buff people across the alliance in different parties. It's pretty cool that a single RDM can Flurry and Haste II the entire alliance, while still enfeebling all the NMs (helping the entire alliance from 1 slot)


Please excuse me... but you’ve lost your mind if you think someone’s gonna solo-buff a whole alliance, AND debuff, AND other stuff xD.

(Yes, yes, I know there are some that wouldn’t mind but that’s still a lot lol)

If you want a RDM spot in an alliance for true endgame content these days, you damn well better be ready to.

We can't cure effectively enough compared to a WHM or a SCH's regen tools to replace them. We're not gonna melee well enough to take a DD's spot. And we're not gonna nuke in a SC-burst setup well enough to be doing it period with BLMs there and us just reducing their damage.

Let's honestly look what maintaining haste2 and flurry2 "on an alliance" for a ranged strat setup. This is what I'd consider a pretty standard setup for 14 ppl:

PLD
WHM
GEO
BRD

RNG
RNG
COR
GEO
RDM

RNG
RNG
COR
GEO
WHM

Bard rotates to give attack songs in this setup before anyone goes bonkers.

RDM would maintain Flurry2 on at max 6 characters (if you have shooting CORs), haste2 on 2 chars (themselves and the PLD), refresh3 on themselves. Expecting your RDM, if you're going to give them a spot in a HELM alliance, to have at least 7:30 Haste2/Flurry2 duration on others is a bare minimum. I personally think 8 mins is bare minimum, but I'm being generous in our example here.

With the recast times at capped fast cast and composure up, this is a very doable casting rotation to start the buffs:

Flurry2-Haste2-Flurry2-Refresh3-Flurry2-Haste2-Flurry2-Stoneskin-Flurry2-Aquaveil-Flurry2, and your buffs are now done. This took likely around 80 seconds.

If you're not willing to cast constantly for 80-90 seconds and then try and enfeeble for the next 6 and a half minutes, I dont' know what to say. That sounds pretty lazy to me.
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By Boshi 2018-07-10 00:07:14
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if you're doing RDM in an alliance it's understood you're doing flurry/haste for anyone important.

(this bars DD that will already have capped haste without you, or pretty much semi afk mages)
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2018-07-10 00:09:00
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while on the subject, let me add the greatest benefit of a RDM in a standard melee setup is that it frees up either the GEO bubble or 2nd song from being haste based and allows the GEO and BRD to do more important tasks with their abilities.

Its not always about "but we're already haste capped without a RDM" its much more about "what can we do with a RDM that we can't without, because others don't have to deal with haste?"
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 Asura.Zeroburning
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By Asura.Zeroburning 2018-07-10 01:05:19
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yea sadly tested both cor and brd Dagger for dt only works on caster and the dt dosent work in offhand
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By Foxfire 2018-07-10 01:15:47
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but do the other stats work on offhand
 
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 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2018-07-10 02:14:31
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Depends on the quality of gear, my RDM has Haste II's that last over 8 minutes, self cast lasts over 21 minutes, effectively forever.

Yup. It's not even that hard to get 8min+. For base 3min duration spells, I'm over 8:30 with Ammurapi, 4/5 Lethargy +1 set and AF+3 hands, and JSE cape.

If a RDM could do buff cycles on an entire 6 person party in the 3min duration days, there is zero reason they can't handle a 12-15 man alliance with current 8-9min buffs. I do it on a dualboxed RDM with no big issues in Omen/Divergence, and I'm not a particularly amazing multitasker.

And it's just haste or flurry on non-party members, for those who even need it (your GEO BRD BLU don't, WHM isn't high priority, etc.). Add some refresh for people in your own party who want it. Really not that hard and it SHOULD be an expectation that a RDM coming to a current endgame event can handle it.
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 Hades.Dade
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By Hades.Dade 2018-07-10 02:30:18
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Asura.Zeroburning said: »
yea sadly tested both cor and brd Dagger for dt only works on caster and the dt dosent work in offhand

that is frustrating. makes weapon a pretty low priority until they add more too em.
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By Afania 2018-07-10 02:32:40
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Asura.Zeroburning said: »
yea sadly tested both cor and brd Dagger for dt only works on caster and the dt dosent work in offhand

Does it work when you take it off?
 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2018-07-10 02:33:30
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Depends on the quality of gear, my RDM has Haste II's that last over 8 minutes, self cast lasts over 21 minutes, effectively forever.

Yup. It's not even that hard to get 8min+. For base 3min duration spells, I'm over 8:30 with Ammurapi, 4/5 Lethargy +1 set and AF+3 hands, and JSE cape.

If a RDM could do buff cycles on an entire 6 person party in the 3min duration days, there is zero reason they can't handle a 12-15 man alliance with current 8-9min buffs. I do it on a dualboxed RDM with no big issues in Omen/Divergence, and I'm not a particularly amazing multitasker.

And it's just haste or flurry on non-party members, for those who even need it (your GEO BRD BLU don't, WHM isn't high priority, etc.). Add some refresh for people in your own party who want it. Really not that hard and it SHOULD be an expectation that a RDM coming to a current endgame event can handle it.

Yup. for max duration on others, a RDM doesn't even have to deal with Telchine augment hell. Those pieces come in to play for self-buffs of course, but the composure bonus from 4/5 along with af+3 hands is more than sufficient for a casual RDM that isn't putting their heart and soul into the job, but still would like to contribute on high-end content.
 Asura.Zeroburning
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By Asura.Zeroburning 2018-07-10 02:59:32
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it dose not work when you take it off but still only for the caster not aoe but was only working in the main hand the dagger has to be midcast of song for it to take effect then cant be taken off
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By Afania 2018-07-10 03:21:06
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Asura.Zeroburning said: »
Yes it dose work when you take it off but still only for the caster not aoe but was only working in the main hand the dagger has to be midcast of song for it to take effect then can be taken off

If the effect remains, may as well roll with it. We already lose tp swapping out for compensator anyways, and yet compensator is necessary for full time CC. So if we are losing tp already, may as well get some free dt from it.

Extra dt is welcoming anyways. 6 DT and 10 pdt or mdt from ambu tp back = 16 pdt or mdt full time in max dps tp set, on a pretty fragile melee job. 6 DT pair with my hybrid set = 50 pdt with very little dps lose too.

pretty nice upgrade.
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By Nyarlko 2018-07-10 05:38:58
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Asura.Zeroburning said: »
Yes it dose work when you take it off but still only for the caster not aoe but was only working in the main hand the dagger has to be midcast of song for it to take effect then can be taken off

Do the other normal stats work from offhand? Acc/Macc/Racc/etc show up on /checkparam?
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By Ragnarok.Phuoc 2018-07-10 06:18:07
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Asura.Geriond said: »
What's the approximate HQ2 rate for T1 synths, with and without shield? I'm trying to get an idea of how rare the +2 necks will be.

The conventionally accepted rate is, for a given HQ,

12/16 HQ1
3/16 HQ2
1/16 HQ3

(Has anyone confirmed the +1 is HQ1 and +2 is HQ2? It seems 'obvious' but there's nothing stopping SE from putting the +2 on HQ3 only, or something of the sort).

I haven't seen a good composite data set of T1 rates post update, and there's speculation number of subcrafts effects it, but I would bet it is in between 1/12 and 1/16.

That means you're looking at about 1/48 to 1/64 if the HQ2 and HQ3 both result in a +2.

Throw in that escutcheon owners can recover 4/5 of their mats, and you could expect cost to settle somewhere around 15x material cost, less if people undercut and gil can be recovered on +1s.

Wanna rescue this post and the talk we had in the SAM thread so it doesnt get buried down.

Had some synthing today on request by a JP and after this round, i dont think this synth is a T1 as posted on the quote i said, the cloth sub is T0 even with the escutcheon and that's the tier you going to be when doing this.

When i synthed, used the usual stuff (hq rings, coconut, all the gold gear but cloth torque so was 122gold/72cloth) and synthed with ionis in adoulin for -mat loss, went 1/27 this time on the +2, she lost 127m on mats + commision on the +2 for a total of 200m (still cheap imo).

Another thing i've been experiencing lately about material loss is it goes up as the synth level goes up too, this is what happened today on the +2 i did:

1
2
3
4

Maybe its a special/patched synth or w/e but the the -mat usage isnt @80%, it was a total bloodshed lol.

Edit: made a mistake putting pics here.
 
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 Ragnarok.Phuoc
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By Ragnarok.Phuoc 2018-07-10 06:27:11
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eslim said: »

Thx! was editing it as u did this haha
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By Nyarlko 2018-07-10 06:45:37
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Ragnarok.Phuoc said: »
Asura.Eiryl said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Asura.Geriond said: »
What's the approximate HQ2 rate for T1 synths, with and without shield? I'm trying to get an idea of how rare the +2 necks will be.

The conventionally accepted rate is, for a given HQ,

12/16 HQ1
3/16 HQ2
1/16 HQ3

(Has anyone confirmed the +1 is HQ1 and +2 is HQ2? It seems 'obvious' but there's nothing stopping SE from putting the +2 on HQ3 only, or something of the sort).

I haven't seen a good composite data set of T1 rates post update, and there's speculation number of subcrafts effects it, but I would bet it is in between 1/12 and 1/16.

That means you're looking at about 1/48 to 1/64 if the HQ2 and HQ3 both result in a +2.

Throw in that escutcheon owners can recover 4/5 of their mats, and you could expect cost to settle somewhere around 15x material cost, less if people undercut and gil can be recovered on +1s.

Wanna rescue this post and the talk we had in the SAM thread so it doesnt get buried down.

Had some synthing today on request by a JP and after this round, i dont think this synth is a T1 as posted on the quote i said, the cloth sub is T0 even with the escutcheon and that's the tier you going to be when doing this.

When i synthed, used the usual stuff (hq rings, coconut, all the gold gear but cloth torque so was 122gold/72cloth) and synthed with ionis in adoulin for -mat loss, went 1/27 this time on the +2, she lost 127m on mats + commision on the +2 for a total of 200m (still cheap imo).

Another thing i've been experiencing lately about material loss is it goes up as the synth level goes up too, this is what happened today on the +2 i did:

1
2
3
4

Maybe its a special/patched synth or w/e but the the -mat usage isnt @80%, it was a total bloodshed lol.

Edit: made a mistake putting pics here.

Mat loss-80% is the upper limit cap, not the baseline. Also, good to see confirmation that the +2s come from HQ2, which means we don't have to pray for HQ3.

* Did you use HQ crystals? Those are stated to have a hidden mat loss-% by the devs (though I don't believe that they gave us an actual value.) If so, were the results successfully signed?

* Did you use Orvail Ring NQ/+1?
 Ragnarok.Phuoc
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By Ragnarok.Phuoc 2018-07-10 07:00:23
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Didnt use HQ crystals on this, didnt have enough GP to buy some stacks for this session since i skip several days because of work/bad memory to do em lol, i always use orvail (nq) and the other hq ring yea.

54/135 materials lost (not counting synth 28 which was the +2) so material loss was at -60%.

Edit: Checked the bg-wiki and it lists wood sub but its incorrect, its cloth sub on this for the 3 gold necks.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-07-10 07:21:31
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So the +2's gonna be hundred million plus it seems but the +1's should be relatively cheap for shield synthers.
 Leviathan.Kingkitt
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By Leviathan.Kingkitt 2018-07-10 07:37:43
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Atleast most of the neck pieces aren't all that good
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