July 2018 Version Update

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July 2018 Version Update
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By fonewear 2018-07-06 07:40:14
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You guys should be happy more Dynamis D for everyone.
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 Leviathan.Kingkitt
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By Leviathan.Kingkitt 2018-07-06 08:07:19
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Asura.Byrne said: »

I'm NOT saying these jobs are useless, but they are objectively less used than other jobs, and when they ARE used, it's usually because of a gimmick.

MNK (which you could argue there is no good use for)

PUP (Which is relegated mostly to tanking, but not in situations where hate is a consistent problem)

BST (Which has some uses but is usually beaten out by any number of jobs for each task that it is any good at)

SCH (Which is primarily used for either Skillchains for MB (in an era where MB meta is dead) or is used to circumvent some kind of DOT.

DRG (Which is mostly competent, and shines in mid-to-low buff scenarios, but can easily be replaced by something else)

NIN

RNG (Which is much better now, but is still somewhat situational, and requires you building the group around it for strategies, requiring everyone in the group to have something to go along with the strat)

BLM (In an era where MB is only used for a handful of NM's, or using manawall for some gimmick)

You can efficiently burn through escha-zitah/ru'ann and up through t3 helms in reis + schah/zerde/vinipata with RNG and/or BLM strats (SCH still used in both scenarios). NIN and MNK, both do well in Dyna-D as well as SCH and RNG with more BLM
 Asura.Byrne
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By Asura.Byrne 2018-07-06 08:20:31
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Leviathan.Kingkitt said: »
Asura.Byrne said: »

You can efficiently burn through escha-zitah/ru'ann and up through t3 helms in reis + schah/zerde/vinipata with RNG and/or BLM strats (SCH still used in both scenarios). NIN and MNK, both do well in Dyna-D as well as SCH and RNG with more BLM

Yeah, I agree with all of that, I'm not saying you simply cannot use things that aren't the Meta. I'm just pointing out how outside of rather niche circumstances, you'd likely opt to use something else instead, either for efficiency, or for ease of use.
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By Nyarlko 2018-07-06 08:37:31
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I am shocked and amazed that no one latched on to the earlier mention, from the devs themselves, of a VW rebuild (rather than Abyssea rebuild,) as part of their future plans... <,<;;

For those with no clue what I'm talking about, here:

If anyone seriously thinks they'd bother remaking the equivalent of an entire expac, well... it was left off the short list, so at the very least, is unlikely to be this fiscal year, if not never.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-07-06 09:03:19
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Nyarlko said: »
I am shocked and amazed that no one latched on to the earlier mention, from the devs themselves, of a VW rebuild (rather than Abyssea rebuild,) as part of their future plans... <,<;;

If anyone seriously thinks they'd bother remaking the equivalent of an entire expac, well... it was left off the short list, so at the very least, is unlikely to be this fiscal year, if not never.

Same amount of work, if not less than dyanmis (if they don't do it the dipshit way)

They can't do EMP+3 with VW. You think bitching about dienamis is bad? Wait until you involve lights procs and random chance for armor.
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By Sylph.Funkworkz 2018-07-06 09:03:36
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Nyarlko said: »
I am shocked and amazed that no one latched on to the earlier mention, from the devs themselves, of a VW rebuild (rather than Abyssea rebuild,) as part of their future plans... <,<;;

For those with no clue what I'm talking about, here:

If anyone seriously thinks they'd bother remaking the equivalent of an entire expac, well... it was left off the short list, so at the very least, is unlikely to be this fiscal year, if not never.

Salvage rebuild of V1 style please. That was the best update we have ever had.
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By Asura.Geriond 2018-07-06 09:04:44
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Ugh, no thanks.
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-07-06 09:33:14
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This is conflating two separate issues, relative melee power and support strengths.

BLU was popular because it doesn't need a BRD and back then BRD was pretty weak. Instead you could have a second GEO and get far superior results. The super DD's like WAR/DRK/SAM were already theoretically stronger then a BLU but required extra support to reach that level.

Something like this

BLU x 2/3
COR x 1
GEO x 1/2
WHM x 1

Instead of
DD x 2
COR x 1
GEO x 1
BRD x 1
WHM x 1

SE fixed this issue not by nerfing BLU's self haste ability or higher accuracy traits like everyone was screaming for but by massively buffing BRD's support ability. Raising BRD's potency cap on songs and then changing their song+ system made them able to hand out very powerful buffs that brought non-BLU's up to par with BLU's while not doing that much for BLU's. Marcato Honor March is like cocain heroine and meth all mixed together in some sort of freakish orgy cocktail for melee's. BLU's still rock everything for non-BRD situations but if a BRD is present their relative power is diminished. Kinda like how RDM is a far better DD then WAR when there's no healer present.

Note about NIN, it's ridiculously powerful but requires insane levels of buffs to reach that power. Blade Chi is broken when max buffed and the target isn't resistant to earth damage, otherwise use Blade To which is similar but Ice.
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By Foxfire 2018-07-06 09:41:41
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In other news, the new polearm looks silly on tarus.
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By 2018-07-06 10:04:34
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By Aerix 2018-07-06 10:51:49
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Asura.Byrne said: »
Aerix said: »
Asura.Byrne said: »
Red Mage on the other hand, benefits more from WSC than BLU does, due to Temper II giving them extra hits for Savage Blade quite often, in addition to the fact that while their WSD values are lower, their WSD pieces happen to have very strong STR/MND, in addition to RDM being on Regal Earring for MND, having exclusive access to Regal Gem, which is far superior to Floestone for Savage Blade, as well as Boost STR giving an additional 55 STR. The problem is that all that is beside the fact that RDM has been receiving consistent (and welcome) updates to it's enfeebling arsenal, as well as plenty of gear with magic accuracy, and tons of enhancing skill.

Not sure why you're bringing up Regal Earring for SB as it doesn't beat Ishvara Earring--let alone Moonshade--according to the DPS spreadsheet.

And Regal Gem only surpasses Floestone in mid- to high Attack situations, which are fairly rare for RDM unless you have a pocket GEO.

Regal Earring's 10 MND works for WSC, and also works in tandem with AF+3 hands for additional accuracy. The 2% WSD bonus from the earring gets diminishing return when you are already getting 10 WSD from cape, 6 from head, 6 from hands, up to 3 from sword, 4 from ring and, in my case, 9 from WSD Chironic feet. It devalues the 2% WSD to be more or less on par with 10 MND assuming 600 or so combined STR/MND, while offering better accuracy.

As for using Floestone, you are talking a difference of 13 attack for 4 more WSC stat. Even with the attack loss you'd be losing a minuscule amount of damage (about 1%, and that's before considering what you get back from the higher MND). Not to mention, as has been brought up previously in this very thread, low attack situations favor CDC over savage blade. In my case it is a stylistic choice, as I have a REMA BRD mule and Idris GEO to tote around as well. I personally will never be in a low attack situation.

The issue is you are quoting a spreadsheet rather than math to work out which one should be better, in a situation where real world testing would have the differences be so small as to be within a reasonable margin of error.

I was out all day, so my response to this is rather unfortunately late.

I understand what you are saying about the Regal items, but you're basically arguing that they're superior items in setups you created for yourself that heavily favor them--and yet only by a marginal difference that has to be mathed out rather being able to rely on the spreadsheets. Unless your friends don't care, RDMs and BLUs will be passed over for heavier DDs in most high buff events.

BLU may have missed out by not having access to those items, but considering the alternatives, hardly enough to gripe over.

Honestly, SB itself is pretty situational anyway. As you said, CdC wins in low attack situations, but it's also very competitive in high attack setups, too. And as long as you're fighting with fewer than 3 other DDs, CdC's skillchain capabiliites are simply far better (assuming compatible WSs).

SB is useful for one-shotting trash or in Alliance zergs, but even then a geared COR would be more useful with SB spam and rolls.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-07-06 10:58:02
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DirectX said: »
Nyarlko said: »
I am shocked and amazed that no one latched on to the earlier mention, from the devs themselves, of a VW rebuild (rather than Abyssea rebuild,) as part of their future plans... <,<;;

For those with no clue what I'm talking about, here:

If anyone seriously thinks they'd bother remaking the equivalent of an entire expac, well... it was left off the short list, so at the very least, is unlikely to be this fiscal year, if not never.
Please not Salvage. I tossed lots of 99 Salvage armor.

They would likely not require you to have the base pieces anyways, would probably just re-introduce new sets. I was intrigued when I heard about Salvage/VW revamps. Honestly, as many complaints as people had with VW (some valid), I actually enjoyed the content. It was the one event where you had to fill out the alliance with people in order to get what the clears. The treasure loot system was pretty horrendous, but that aside, it involved every player/job and you didn't really have any reason to not invite a job specifically unless it was pup/smn/bst or something. It was inclusive, just that campaigns ended that era completely.

Kind of disappointed they didn't mentioned Limbus/Temenos/Apollyon though. The zones and bosses are already there, just needs an ilvl update and new ultima/omega stuff.
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By Asura.Geriond 2018-07-06 11:26:40
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What's the approximate HQ2 rate for T1 synths, with and without shield? I'm trying to get an idea of how rare the +2 necks will be.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-07-06 11:30:15
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Asura.Geriond said: »
What's the approximate HQ2 rate for T1 synths, with and without shield? I'm trying to get an idea of how rare the +2 necks will be.

The conventionally accepted rate is, for a given HQ,

12/16 HQ1
3/16 HQ2
1/16 HQ3

(Has anyone confirmed the +1 is HQ1 and +2 is HQ2? It seems 'obvious' but there's nothing stopping SE from putting the +2 on HQ3 only, or something of the sort).

I haven't seen a good composite data set of T1 rates post update, and there's speculation number of subcrafts effects it, but I would bet it is in between 1/12 and 1/16.

That means you're looking at about 1/48 to 1/64 if the HQ2 and HQ3 both result in a +2.

Throw in that escutcheon owners can recover 4/5 of their mats, and you could expect cost to settle somewhere around 15x material cost, less if people undercut and gil can be recovered on +1s.
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By Asura.Inuyushi 2018-07-06 12:05:44
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Asura.Saevel said: »
This is conflating two separate issues, relative melee power and support strengths.

BLU was popular because it doesn't need a BRD and back then BRD was pretty weak. Instead you could have a second GEO and get far superior results. The super DD's like WAR/DRK/SAM were already theoretically stronger then a BLU but required extra support to reach that level.

Something like this

BLU x 2/3
COR x 1
GEO x 1/2
WHM x 1

Instead of
DD x 2
COR x 1
GEO x 1
BRD x 1
WHM x 1

SE fixed this issue not by nerfing BLU's self haste ability or higher accuracy traits like everyone was screaming for but by massively buffing BRD's support ability. Raising BRD's potency cap on songs and then changing their song+ system made them able to hand out very powerful buffs that brought non-BLU's up to par with BLU's while not doing that much for BLU's. Marcato Honor March is like cocain heroine and meth all mixed together in some sort of freakish orgy cocktail for melee's. BLU's still rock everything for non-BRD situations but if a BRD is present their relative power is diminished. Kinda like how RDM is a far better DD then WAR when there's no healer present.

Note about NIN, it's ridiculously powerful but requires insane levels of buffs to reach that power. Blade Chi is broken when max buffed and the target isn't resistant to earth damage, otherwise use Blade To which is similar but Ice.

This. I was going to say the same thing. Not to mention they nerfed/corrected attunement/vex so that magic damage was more of a threat bringing attention to the player base that RUN could fill this gap by being able to DD and take more damage.
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By Afania 2018-07-06 12:47:19
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Asura.Byrne said: »
The bottom line is, if they intend to balance everything out with content variety, we need more content variety. That itself is problematic in a game where gear requirements are so much higher than virtually any other similar game, because it would absolutely require you to have multiple endgame geared jobs, making the game even less accessible to a decent portion of it's players who are struggling already with getting left behind.

That is not a problem, its a direction the game should be heading. Ffxi IS made to have variety of content, and made to require gearing multiple jobs if you want most efficient way to clear every content. Because of horizontal progression and job change system.

From what Im reading, your idea of balance: only a few content matters, every job should have equal efficiency. So a setup of war x2 should zerg woc as efficiently as smn x2, or ninx2, or blux2.

That is not balance, thats game design disaster.

you know how to accomplish such game design disaster? Remove all the spells from nin and blu, then give them mighty strikes. Every job plays the same and functions the same, they can be used under exactly the same situation, thats "balance" to you.

But in no way I would play a boring ffxi like this.

I do wide variety of content from Ambu E, SR, delve to endgame alliance zergs, master trials, VD and so on. I also play with wide variety of people from people who prefer pet setup to people who prefer blm setup things.

If you only use SMN WAR PLD COR GEO WHM RUN BRD in game because you only do a few things, play with a few people, then the problem is on you. That is fine.

But its not worth sacrificing content variety and job diversity in ffxi to accomplish the "balance" that you talk about. Because I prefer a ffxi with variety even if the price to pay is all jobs not being used all the time. And I cant imagine those who play ff11 over 14 seriously want a game that every job functions extremely close to each other.

Asura.Byrne said: »
We have to pick one, but we don't get to *** that "scrubs are scrubs and need to stop being such scrubs" AND say that the game needs more varied mechanics that require multiple different JOBS instead of just different strategies.

What are you talking about.... using different strategy is the same as using different jobs in ffxi....

Case to the point, last months ambuscade blm setup clears VD in 4 min with 100% win rate, nor it needs sp to kill that fast. I cant pull of same level of efficiency with melees. Nor I want to waste time to reset sp with smn. That makes BLM the best choice in that content, and not useless in game. On the same time, if you dont have BLM its still possible to do ambu, just slower.

Its different and better strategy, which involves different job to pull off.

Ffxi encourages people to gear multiple jobs for different strategy, thats a good thing in terms of game longevity.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-07-06 12:52:31
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See they don't balance the game that way though.

Pure DD should always be better than a utility DD or a hybrid DD and they clearly aren't.

Monk has literally nothing to make it utility or hybrid, it has absolutely zero enmity tools to pretend to tank. But still dead last in damage.

Cor is the definition of utility DD, does entirely too much damage.

Run does entirely too much damage to be a tank.

Blu does entirely too much damage to be a hybrid.
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By Analiza 2018-07-06 12:53:07
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Hello.

Someone can explain how get the new mats, crystal and the other items. BG say "Obtainable from Goblin Box" , so this means its ramdon, or do you need any tittle or quezt be done?

Tanks
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By hobo 2018-07-06 13:20:28
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can get them from the goblin in jeuno, same one that upgrades your gear sells the stuff. just have to provide medals
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By Analiza 2018-07-06 13:29:14
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Thanks =P
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2018-07-06 14:06:03
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DirectX said: »
SCH I feel is crap outside of being a SC monkey, they should of gotten Cure V and -na spells in my opinion, and dispel under Dark Arts and the JA that gives access to more spells. WHM would still be a better healer and BLM a better nuker and RDM and better enfeebler.

I... actually kinda dig SCH in Divergence. I'll bring my alt/mule, Accession+Perpetuance Regen V to support melee parties while I focus on my other (melee/tank) character, though could conceivably act like a healer or something if I was fulltime focusing on it. And still nukes down normal statues quite effectively. For bosses, SC/MB and Storms for mages.
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-07-06 14:49:37
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Ah how nostalgic, people still thinking Cure V is somehow useful for main healing.

Psst secret, Cure III and IV are better anyway, it's the lack of a quick AoE heal that prevents SCH and RDM for being popular main healer choices.
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By Asura.Cair 2018-07-06 14:54:59
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Necks will +2 if you HQ2, don't need HQ3. Can't speak for weapons quite yet, but I assume it's the same.
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-07-06 15:49:59
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Valefor.Angierus said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Ah how nostalgic, people still thinking Cure V is somehow useful for main healing.

Psst secret, Cure III and IV are better anyway, it's the lack of a quick AoE heal that prevents SCH and RDM for being popular main healer choices.

Literally never understood why people were attracted to dumping more mp for an extra 200hp heal that often wouldn't end up being life or death.

I think it's cause they see Cure V / VI on WHM and think their really important. I would kill for Curaga III to be made 49 WHM, would change the entire healing meta.
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