July 2018 Version Update

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July 2018 Version Update
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 Asura.Byrne
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By Asura.Byrne 2018-07-06 16:42:13
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Afania said: »
That is not a problem, its a direction the game should be heading. Ffxi IS made to have variety of content, and made to require gearing multiple jobs if you want most efficient way to clear every content. Because of horizontal progression and job change system.

From what Im reading, your idea of balance: only a few content matters, every job should have equal efficiency. So a setup of war x2 should zerg woc as efficiently as smn x2, or ninx2, or blux2.

That is not balance, thats game design disaster.

You need to stop putting words in people's mouths.
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 Asura.Byrne
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By Asura.Byrne 2018-07-06 16:52:14
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Aerix said: »
SB is useful for one-shotting trash or in Alliance zergs, but even then a geared COR would be more useful with SB spam and rolls.

Not always, it depends on what you're doing. Sometimes the utility of having the extra few % of defense down of Dia IV instead of 3, and the accuracy from Distract, and reduced incoming damage from Sabotuered addle II, can make all the difference over just adding a second COR
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By Afania 2018-07-06 17:10:06
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If you dont want others put words in your mouth, then dont make statements like this

Asura.Byrne said: »
The VAST majority of content is preferred to be done by less than half of the jobs in the game. (SMN WAR PLD COR GEO WHM SMN RUN BRD gets you through basically all of the content in the game, with only a few specific exceptions)

Or this

Asura.Byrne said: »
It has mostly relegated them to Master Trials, which is entirely for bragging rights anyway, and solo content.

Or this

Asura.Byrne said: »
The fact that you have multiple jobs that are not used for basically anything, and some that are inferior to most other things is a testament to this.

Or this
Asura.Byrne said: »
The bottom line is, if they intend to balance everything out with content variety, we need more content variety. That itself is problematic in a game where gear requirements are so much higher than virtually any other similar game, because it would absolutely require you to have multiple endgame geared jobs, making the game even less accessible to a decent portion of it's players who are struggling already with getting left behind.

You may not directly say you want every job to be completely equal, but the best solution for job balance for your preferred ffxi direction in your mind is to make every job basically equal. So people can do everything with equal effectiveness on every job. And they can participate in every content on one job and still hit max efficiency.

What kind if fairytale mmo that has 22 jobs, each plays very differently and every job has absolutely equal efficiency for every content?

And if dev isnt doing that, they are not doing their job in your mind. Even if heading for completely different direction with more content and mechanics variety is totally legit. You shut the idea down anyways.

Give every job a reason to be used via content variety is, IMO, most suitable and REALISTIC direction to balance jobs.
 Asura.Byrne
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By Asura.Byrne 2018-07-06 17:21:29
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Afania said: »
If you dont want others put words in your mouth, then dont make statements like this

Asura.Byrne said: »
The VAST majority of content is preferred to be done by less than half of the jobs in the game. (SMN WAR PLD COR GEO WHM SMN RUN BRD gets you through basically all of the content in the game, with only a few specific exceptions)

Or this

Asura.Byrne said: »
It has mostly relegated them to Master Trials, which is entirely for bragging rights anyway, and solo content.

Or this

Asura.Byrne said: »
The fact that you have multiple jobs that are not used for basically anything, and some that are inferior to most other things is a testament to this.

Or this
Asura.Byrne said: »
The bottom line is, if they intend to balance everything out with content variety, we need more content variety. That itself is problematic in a game where gear requirements are so much higher than virtually any other similar game, because it would absolutely require you to have multiple endgame geared jobs, making the game even less accessible to a decent portion of it's players who are struggling already with getting left behind.

You may not directly say you want every job to be completely equal, but the best solution for job balance for your preferred ffxi direction in your mind is to make every job basically equal.

And if dev isnt doing that, they are not doing their job in your mind. Even if heading for completely different direction with more content and mechanics variety is totally legit. You shut the idea down anyways.

At this point you are actually making me irritated. It's like you can't just listen to what people say, you have to infer what they mean according to you. This is juvenile.

It's as if you are being deliberately inflammatory.

ALL of the things you quoted DO NOT mean that I think all jobs should be equal. Asking for things to be more balanced than they are is NOT THE SAME as asking for every job to be carbon copies of each other, and the fact that you are trying to imply that I am saying that makes you dishonest.

Have you forgotten the period of over a year when Bard was practically worthless? Have you forgotten that these days GEO is a 100% must pick in high level content to hit PDIF cap?

What about when, as you claim, BLU was just TOO OP back in 2015? Was the game balanced, then? What would your argument have been at that time, I wonder? Should they have just made a bunch of low attack low accuracy content that auto-caps your haste for everyone else to excel in?
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By Draylo 2018-07-06 17:34:05
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Afania was always in favor of a BLU nerf in any form. You won't gain anything valuable from arguing with him lol. The truth is it was intentional to not include BLU from all that gear. They have even made RUN a better DD with more survivability with all the buffs and equipment. Funny how now it has shifted from pitchforks to BLU, and nobody talks about the next few jobs the same way. SMN is still in the same place and you don't see constant threads saying it should be nerfed like it had for BLU.
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By Afania 2018-07-06 17:35:41
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Asura.Byrne said: »
Afania said: »
If you dont want others put words in your mouth, then dont make statements like this

Asura.Byrne said: »
The VAST majority of content is preferred to be done by less than half of the jobs in the game. (SMN WAR PLD COR GEO WHM SMN RUN BRD gets you through basically all of the content in the game, with only a few specific exceptions)

Or this

Asura.Byrne said: »
It has mostly relegated them to Master Trials, which is entirely for bragging rights anyway, and solo content.

Or this

Asura.Byrne said: »
The fact that you have multiple jobs that are not used for basically anything, and some that are inferior to most other things is a testament to this.

Or this
Asura.Byrne said: »
The bottom line is, if they intend to balance everything out with content variety, we need more content variety. That itself is problematic in a game where gear requirements are so much higher than virtually any other similar game, because it would absolutely require you to have multiple endgame geared jobs, making the game even less accessible to a decent portion of it's players who are struggling already with getting left behind.

You may not directly say you want every job to be completely equal, but the best solution for job balance for your preferred ffxi direction in your mind is to make every job basically equal.

And if dev isnt doing that, they are not doing their job in your mind. Even if heading for completely different direction with more content and mechanics variety is totally legit. You shut the idea down anyways.

At this point you are actually making me irritated. It's like you can't just listen to what people say, you have to infer what they mean according to you. This is juvenile.

It's as if you are being deliberately inflammatory.

ALL of the things you quoted DO NOT mean that I think all jobs should be equal. Asking for things to be more balanced than they are is NOT THE SAME as asking for every job to be carbon copies of each other, and the fact that you are trying to imply that I am saying that makes you dishonest.

Have you forgotten the period of over a year when Bard was practically worthless? Have you forgotten that these days GEO is a 100% must pick in high level content to hit PDIF cap?

What about when, as you claim, BLU was just TOO OP back in 2015? Was the game balanced, then? What would your argument have been at that time, I wonder? Should they have just made a bunch of low attack low accuracy content that auto-caps your haste for everyone else to excel in?


Wait what? The way SE fixed blu, brd and geo is completely in line with what Im advocating for.

Brd wasnt used back then so se buffed their acc song potency that its must have in melee pt.

Geo is used for everything so its potency is nerfed or render useless in some ambu and mt.

Blu was used in 2016 because their ability to cap haste, saves geo bubble and had high acc. Its fixed immediately after brd buff.

Its all great solution and I think its the direction this game should be heading. They just need to push it further, not the other way around.

I personally dont see how its possible to retain job diversity and make them all has equal efficiency in every content. I just dont see how it can be done in any way. Nor I expect se or any game dev to pull it off, be realistic.
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By Afania 2018-07-06 17:37:50
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Draylo said: »
SMN is still in the same place and you don't see constant threads saying it should be nerfed like it had for BLU.

Lol right. Because when we talk about smn nerf you for 30 pages you
ignored all the posts. When we talk about blu you see it with a magifying glass. You only pay attention to one thing isnt it.
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By Foxfire 2018-07-06 17:42:13
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Foxfire said: »
Remember when we were discussing update-related content
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By fonewear 2018-07-06 18:17:10
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Foxfire said: »
Remember when we were discussing update-related content

According to this spreadhseet (see below) you are right !

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By 2018-07-06 18:27:37
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By Foxfire 2018-07-06 18:30:27
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Yes on the first three points; no confirmation on separate way to upgrade yet, just assumptions and hearsay AFAIK

only people actually attempting to HQ2 the weapons would be able to tell you, on point 4

i believe there will be a clarification from the devs, according to Nyarlko, sometime next week
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-07-06 18:30:37
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Asura.Alfylicious said: »
Necks are NQ > HQ1 > HQ2 but if augments are to be added in September then there may be a separate way to upgrade NQ neck to +2 in order to get to augment stage?

You synth the HQ2 first then step it down to the HQ1.
 
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By 2018-07-06 18:43:18
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 Asura.Byrne
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By Asura.Byrne 2018-07-06 18:58:04
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Afania said: »
Asura.Byrne said: »
Afania said: »
If you dont want others put words in your mouth, then dont make statements like this

Asura.Byrne said: »
The VAST majority of content is preferred to be done by less than half of the jobs in the game. (SMN WAR PLD COR GEO WHM SMN RUN BRD gets you through basically all of the content in the game, with only a few specific exceptions)

Or this

Asura.Byrne said: »
It has mostly relegated them to Master Trials, which is entirely for bragging rights anyway, and solo content.

Or this

Asura.Byrne said: »
The fact that you have multiple jobs that are not used for basically anything, and some that are inferior to most other things is a testament to this.

Or this
Asura.Byrne said: »
The bottom line is, if they intend to balance everything out with content variety, we need more content variety. That itself is problematic in a game where gear requirements are so much higher than virtually any other similar game, because it would absolutely require you to have multiple endgame geared jobs, making the game even less accessible to a decent portion of it's players who are struggling already with getting left behind.

You may not directly say you want every job to be completely equal, but the best solution for job balance for your preferred ffxi direction in your mind is to make every job basically equal.

And if dev isnt doing that, they are not doing their job in your mind. Even if heading for completely different direction with more content and mechanics variety is totally legit. You shut the idea down anyways.

At this point you are actually making me irritated. It's like you can't just listen to what people say, you have to infer what they mean according to you. This is juvenile.

It's as if you are being deliberately inflammatory.

ALL of the things you quoted DO NOT mean that I think all jobs should be equal. Asking for things to be more balanced than they are is NOT THE SAME as asking for every job to be carbon copies of each other, and the fact that you are trying to imply that I am saying that makes you dishonest.

Have you forgotten the period of over a year when Bard was practically worthless? Have you forgotten that these days GEO is a 100% must pick in high level content to hit PDIF cap?

What about when, as you claim, BLU was just TOO OP back in 2015? Was the game balanced, then? What would your argument have been at that time, I wonder? Should they have just made a bunch of low attack low accuracy content that auto-caps your haste for everyone else to excel in?


Wait what? The way SE fixed blu, brd and geo is completely in line with what Im advocating for.

Brd wasnt used back then so se buffed their acc song potency that its must have in melee pt.

Geo is used for everything so its potency is nerfed or render useless in some ambu and mt.

Blu was used in 2016 because their ability to cap haste, saves geo bubble and had high acc. Its fixed immediately after brd buff.

Its all great solution and I think its the direction this game should be heading. They just need to push it further, not the other way around.

I personally dont see how its possible to retain job diversity and make them all has equal efficiency in every content. I just dont see how it can be done in any way. Nor I expect se or any game dev to pull it off, be realistic.

Again putting words in my mouth? You just don't *** learn, do you?

I never said all jobs should be equally efficient in every content.

This is yet another fallacy, a strawman, this time.

You seem to be the type to be unable to distinguish between equality of opportunity, and equality of outcome. I'm not saying the jobs should be equally valid in all content. I'm saying it should be BALANCED. These two words do not mean the same thing.

Also, no. This is not "exactly as you said you were advocating for". You said the game should be balanced by "diversity of content". It was balanced by them changing the mechanics of the game. and giving direct and powerful buffs to underwhelming jobs.

It is literally what I said, and NOT what you said. How the hell are you getting this twisted around?
 Asura.Luckyseven
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By Asura.Luckyseven 2018-07-06 19:08:07
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*Grabs popcorn*
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By fonewear 2018-07-06 19:17:33
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Every single thread becomes this. I'm right because *reasons*

No I'm more right than you !

Let's fight about it for 10 pages.
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By Afania 2018-07-06 19:49:48
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Asura.Byrne said: »
It is literally what I said, and NOT what you said. How the hell are you getting this twisted around?

Changing the mechanics of the game(in the case of geo) is exactly the same as content variety, so does making a job mandatory in specific setup for specific content(in the case of brd). The jobs are used for one thing but not another, thus no jobs are useless, because the specific content, mechanic or setup favors it.

It was exactly what I meant about content diversity.

So basically you are advocating the same thing I did? Then why are you here trying to argue every post I made?
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-07-06 20:26:40
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Draylo said: »
SMN is still in the same place and you don't see constant threads saying it should be nerfed like it had for BLU.
There have been way more 'nerf smn' threads and talk than there ever were for BLU. People got bored of beating the dead horse after 6 months of SE ignoring it.

Afania said: »
I personally dont see how its possible to retain job diversity and make them all has equal efficiency in every content. I just dont see how it can be done in any way. Nor I expect se or any game dev to pull it off, be realistic.
Simple truth. Every job, even MNK, has enough relative power to balance the job against potential opponents. Add enough different opponents and the jobs that are currently out of flavor will see more use.

RUN and SMN are overpowered and deserve a nerf, but a lot of the neglected jobs are out of flavor due to nothing more than player prejudice and the unwillingness of most people to deviate from the strategy used by the first youtube video they see.
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 Fenrir.Richybear
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By Fenrir.Richybear 2018-07-06 20:40:37
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SO IS MONK READY TO PUNCH STUFF IN THE DINK YET, OR ARE THEY STILL BLASTING CHI FROM THE SIDELINES?
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-07-06 20:49:25
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Simple truth. Every job, even MNK, has enough relative power to balance the job against potential opponents. Add enough different opponents and the jobs that are currently out of flavor will see more use.

QFT

I wish SE would buff H2H WS's a bit cause they are lagging, but otherwise making content where blunt does a lot of damage or where extremely controlled TP feeding would really help MNK out.
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By Nyarlko 2018-07-06 21:05:47
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Simple truth. Every job, even MNK, has enough relative power to balance the job against potential opponents. Add enough different opponents and the jobs that are currently out of flavor will see more use.

QFT

I wish SE would buff H2H WS's a bit cause they are lagging, but otherwise making content where blunt does a lot of damage or where extremely controlled TP feeding would really help MNK out.

Needs moar Subtle Blow II. <,< If MNKs fed literally 0TP, could be an interesting option at least for most content as they would be essentially "free damage".
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-07-06 21:09:01
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Nyarlko said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Simple truth. Every job, even MNK, has enough relative power to balance the job against potential opponents. Add enough different opponents and the jobs that are currently out of flavor will see more use.

QFT

I wish SE would buff H2H WS's a bit cause they are lagging, but otherwise making content where blunt does a lot of damage or where extremely controlled TP feeding would really help MNK out.

Needs moar Subtle Blow II. <,< If MNKs fed literally 0TP, could be an interesting option at least for most content as they would be essentially "free damage".

They'd never get to 0, but sufficiently low enough that TP moves aren't much of an issue. I've played around with that idea and honestly it's just not really worth it when you can just smash something's face in really quickly. That's why H2H WS's need a slight buff, but overly huge but sufficient that the damage drop off from using MNK isn't much of a hindrance compared to the benefit.
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By hobo 2018-07-06 21:11:13
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Fenrir.Richybear said: »
SO IS MONK READY TO PUNCH STUFF IN THE DINK YET, OR ARE THEY STILL BLASTING CHI FROM THE SIDELINES?

You have to boost for another 3 months then hope you didn't die of old age.
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 Odin.Vasche
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By Odin.Vasche 2018-07-06 21:58:38
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hobo said: »
Fenrir.Richybear said: »
SO IS MONK READY TO PUNCH STUFF IN THE DINK YET, OR ARE THEY STILL BLASTING CHI FROM THE SIDELINES?

You have to boost for another 3 months then hope you didn't die of old age.

I've been in Gaol for a year and a half and I get to play Monk in events just as much as you all.
 Asura.Byrne
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By Asura.Byrne 2018-07-06 22:06:15
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Afania said: »
Changing the mechanics of the game(in the case of geo) is exactly the same as content variety

nope
 Asura.Beatsbytaru
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By Asura.Beatsbytaru 2018-07-06 22:17:15
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Fenrir.Richybear said: »
SO IS MONK READY TO PUNCH STUFF IN THE DINK YET, OR ARE THEY STILL BLASTING CHI FROM THE SIDELINES?
Read the notes, gosh.

They kick now.
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 Bahamut.Agerine
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By Bahamut.Agerine 2018-07-06 23:14:03
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Asura.Byrne said: »
Afania said: »
Changing the mechanics of the game(in the case of geo) is exactly the same as content variety

nope

SIZE 30!!!!

edit. Size 30.
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By Afania 2018-07-06 23:15:52
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Asura.Byrne said: »
Afania said: »
Changing the mechanics of the game(in the case of geo) is exactly the same as content variety

nope


You are just arguing the wordings now, not game design. Just give up......

Also wtf at size 30.
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By Rooks 2018-07-07 00:18:24
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Asura.Alfylicious said: »
Now we just need FFXIAH to update items so I can stalk AH prices.

I submitted the item dump to the bossman the morning of the patch, he just has to update the db.
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