New Character Development System: Master Level.

Damn I really did do my best to remember all jobs, forgot /dnc, some niche use, but.... Nothing too notable outside of solo.

Trusts pretty much nullified /dnc as a thing.

They might give us something like. @mlvl 15, new trait for job. @mlvl 30, new ability. @mlvl 50, new ws.

Or something like that to keep the jobs unique.

/smn per job starting at ML59 (subjob level 59)
Offensive focused pet abilities SMN main at a certain ML threshold can cast any of these pets if below jobs are in party regardless of what subjob the below has on. (Maybe even a dual summon option?

The following jobs can summon these esper's while subbing /SMN, an Idea for fun only, don't all get so serious at once and ask why....

NIN can summon TOAD (esper name subject to change) phys mag Eva down option/s. Adds DoT poison only takes a swing if there is no poison on enemy from any source, (magical DoT)

PLD can summon TURTLE (esper name subject to change) phys mag defence down option/s. Adds regen to character who cast only.

RUN can summon MAGIC POT (esper name subject to change) mag Eva defence down option/s. Adds refresh to character who cast only.

DNC can summon BALLERINA (esper name subject to change) phys Eva defence down option/s. Adds regain to character who cast only.

SAM can summon YOJIMBO (esper name subject to change) 1~5 TP drain self/party option/s. Melee auto attacks only, enemy gains no TP from the esper's swings. (A physical DoT)

MNK can summon BEAR HUGGER (esper name subject to change) randomly/everyother special attack based on a TP/WS system either Chakraga (random AoE cure) or Suplex (just like the ghost train deserves for somewhat decent damage, possible skill chain properties)

COR can summon AIRSHIP (esper name subject to change) ranged Eva defence down option/s. Adds extra double or triple shots for any /ra abilities for party members, including throw, bow, tomahawks, agnons, dakkens, gun, xbow, anything ranged attack that isn't a WS etc.

RNG can summon ARAGORN (esper name subject to change) all evasion down option/s (range phys magg). Esper ranged attacks from afar, possible WS/Skill chain partner.

DRK can summon PINHEAD (esper name subject to change) off and on plague effect (helps slow down crazy enemy spams). Reverse spikes, similar to twilight dagger, no WS's, no enemy TP gain, compatible with sambas.

PUP can summon ARACHNID (esper name subject to change) increased pet (all pets in party/alliance) damage against the mob option/s. Twilight dagger like effect, but only for pets wacking at the mob, enemy does not gain TP from esper's auto attacks.

BST can summon BEHEMOTH (esper name subject to change) increased intimidate/killer effects, can still charm/call beast (call beast doesn't consume jug, pet food is only consumed at 50%) a second pet. Decent white damage melee attacks, but does give mob minor to per swing, Random meteor casting, hate free.

DRG can summon BAHAMUT (esper name subject to change) Dragon's armor: Wyvern becomes a bigger badder "reskin" transformation for visual effect, gains regen/regain extra HP and defenses (deteriorated over time), and some more skill chain properties, but becomes a hate magnet sort of. Jumps rests back to normal wyvern in addition to shedding hate, but also resets esper summon timer.

THF can summon LUCKYCOIN (esper name subject to change) Double TH for the rarer NM slot drops and gilfinder for applicable gil dropping mobs(multiplied by gear and traits). Full time flee. While esper is out, flee becomes an extra aura steal type ability on same time as flee to help dispel mobs. Passive, does not touch mobs.

BLM can summon ULTIMA (esper name subject to change) insta-casts exact same elemental magics that the main BLM casts, hate free, stays near BLM always (to avoid getting 1 shotted, has heavy MDB, but somewhat weak physical defenses) esper has infinite MP. Does not physically attack, ever.

WHM can summon RAPTURE (esper name subject to change) full time arise, when character raises, is invisible to hate/enmity/and all null attacks for 15 seconds. Heavyish tick refresh, 25% insta cast with half MP consumption.

RDM can summon TIME MAGE (esper name subject to change) 5% chance when a debuffs wears off of the mob, rdm insta casts same debuffs of maximum potency available to the RDM, even if the initial debuffs came from a different character/job in the group. Sleeps included. 1% chance of damage dealt by an AoE attack, any type, or debuffs, will be annulled for whole alliance.

GEO can summon TREEBEARD (esper name subject to change) always idles next to the furthest member of the alliance relative to a mob. 5 y'all Aura includes refresh, regen, regain, double tick on weakened count down, double tick on enfeeble countdown, double ticks on /heal snowball for alliance. 10% chance to MB with the GEO main. Esper is passive, weaker magic def, stronger physical def.

SCH can summon LIBRARIAN (esper name subject to change) All DoT on enemy from any alliance source doubled, duration doubled. All beneficial buffs from any alliance source doubled in duration.
Passive, idles near SCH, range is zone wide. Average defense magical and physical.

WAR can summon MANIAC (esper name subject to change) melee swings are pure hybrid, decent survivability, think a co tank type summon, possible WS/SC partner. 2' yalm attack bonus.

BLU can summon KRAKEN (esper name subject to change) pure magic melee attacks, hybrid WSs, moderate glass canon, something something refresh and MAB/ATT/ACC.

BRD can summon ORPHEOM (esper name subject to change) 1.5x duration all songs apply zone wide for entire alliance, if killed only songs for the party the BRD is in stay on, ORPHEOM wanders around any player in alliance. Cannot be agro-ed, does not become added to enmity list, does not engage enemies, is subject to getting wiped out by AoE. 5% chance of reapplying lullaby if any sleep effect wears off of an enemy within normal casting range of spell from the current position of the esper hate free.

Again, summoner main can cast these bad boys at higher MLvls if the applicable job is in their main party only.

This is an example of what I mean for the pet subs needing a real overhaul.

Speculate away from here, I'm going to bed. Typed all that on my crappy small *** touch screen phone.

Edit: derp hit submit too early, gonna do all 21 jobs subbing SMN as a thought experiment, just for the shits of it all. check back later
Edit2: gonna do similar ideas for /BST /PUP /GEO /DRG also sometime later.
Edit3: I am fully aware this is theory craft, obviously would need fine tuned.

They really did it only once after we had 99 as a cap (introducing ilvl gear) and it was hated by TONS of players (including me) resulting in big part of player base quitting. Since ilvl119, some sets are clearly stronger, like Odyssey sets, but still it's not a clear vertical progression. There is many old sets providing higher dps or accuracy or w/e in exchange of being glassy or other disadvantages. Power of Odyssey sets is more in having both very high survivability and offense, making them a perfect compromise.

Im not confused. I was just referencing Last 10 years, not whole progression of lv cap 50>75>99 and ilvl 119. I know how vertical progression works in other mmorpg and I know why we havent got higher ilvl than 119, because introducing vertical progression through ilvl gear in seeker of Adoulin was a BIG FAIL. Most player hated that. FFXI players dont like seeing their gear earned through years of grind becoming a trash tier. I know how it works in FFXIV and I dont want this ***in FFXI.

I kinda feel that what you expect (JA abilities augments makign them more unique/powerful) will come with Empy+3. I expect more JA will get similar treatment to Impetus on Bhikku body.

But it's already like this now, you think because equipment still shows "ilvl 119" that we are not getting any vertical increase in overall stats? thinking it's just "side-grades"? I already gave you an example with job specific gear which you cut from quote, compare ilvl 119 normal relic with "ilvl 119" +3 relic, that's 100% vertical progression and no way +3 is also "ilvl 119", it's always been like this btw, they just decided to show the item budget they use with SOA then stopped again smh, showing the true ilvl wouldn't change anything.

Like I said, there are some easy examples of vertical progression, like Items becoming +1, +2 or REMA augments, but even those are clearly vertically better than their NQ versions. If you would compare them against other weapons, then showing vertical progression easily disappears. It's even worse with armor slots than weapons too. I gave you examples already. How would you evaluate ilvl for Malignance, which has massive meva, sTP, high DT, high macc and acc, but no attack, crit damage, crit rate, etc. at all? Would you only evaluate based on base stats like STR/DEX etc? Even then stats distribution varies a lot (Malignance has for example tons of DEX, but mediocre STR). Would you evaluate by sum of Stats? Then evaluate Reatic Bangles +1, which has 266 total in 7 stats, which is miles ahead even over Nyame. How would you stack Nyame Legs vs THF relic +3 legs? First has gigantic defensive advantage and 2% more WSD, second has acc/att, haste and Stats advantage.

How would you evaluate sets that can be augmented? Would ilvl change dynamically with Augments, even random ones like Reisenjima armors?

How would you compare stp against multi-attack? how would you
stack it against crit rate or PDL? What if something has both (Tatanashi for example).

I think trying to add ilvl to gear would make people even more confused than they are now, because most items in FFXI are bis only conditionally and for some build and scenarios they might have status of lets say ilvl 130, while for other scenario they might be worse than something that's ilvl119.

You would need to change all items in FFXI to be completely blend. Cut all the stats from game that makes things situational, like crit rate, PDL etc. Make all armors has the same stats. def/hp/mp, 7 base stats, acc/att and then every new higher ilvl would be clearly better than previous one. So generally make FFXI dumb as ***, so people can clearly see that x piece is better than y, but in the same process kill the game core (itemization) completely. *** no.

This is why I say calm down, before you start writing essays

It's a forum. It's made to discuss things by writing. I understand for you its more like a place to drop your troll baits, but I still find it sad (In a sense I feel sorry for you), that few sentences is an essay for you.

I'm not playing atm (or for a long time) but I see yells to sell Master points in the shout thing on the front page. This is sad. Is it only RMT selling them? Do they have all camps taken up like before?

depends on your server!

I've played mmorpgs with proper vertical progression.

Vertical progression means, if you go and do new tier content in last tier gear you will get obliterated. The game won't even let you do the content in the first place via dungeon finder since it is usually min Ilevel locked, but if it did you would be dead before you are even able to scream out in pain.

The next tier of gear isn't just better, it's a whole other level to the point the content is designed to not be possible unless you have it on.

Exactly and then there is sense in ilvling such gear, because it clearly means its better than lower ilvl. In FFXI, with gear we have now, it wouldn't have sense at all and I hope it stays like that till the end.

Just spent a few hours testing Exemplar Point gain based on enemy level.

As soon as your job is able to obtain EP, /check (and thus EP gain) is no longer based on ilvl, but is rather based on the formula Level = 119 + floor(ML/5). Base EP is based on the enemy's level difference from said level, meaning that as players get higher ML, the EP they get from the same level of enemy is reduced. Enemies that are 10 levels or more below you give no EP.

There are three type of enemies, each of which gives out different base levels of EP, which I've labeled Normal, Intermediate, and Apex. Normal enemies consist of nearly everything (including most NMs), Intermediate consists of enemies in Odyssey (and possibly other places), and Apex consists of enemies with the apex label. Intermediate enemies give 300% the EP of a normal mob, while Apex enemies give 500% the exp of a normal mob.

EP chains become available against enemies that are equal to your level or higher, and give +2% EP per level of chain (at least, at low chain numbers). This may change at higher chains.

The following table shows the base EP that an enemy gives to a solo player with no chain. Not every value was directly testable (though I did test very many), but they follow a clear pattern, so I'm confident enough to say that these are the values. Not all the values have corresponding enemies yet, but these are the values they'll have if they are released in the future.



Things that need more testing:

• How much being in a party or an alliance reduces EP gain.

• Whether EP Chains diverge from 2% per level at higher values, and what the cap is, if any.
  

• How much time between chains differs with enemy level (unlikely to ever be fully tested).

Out of curiosity, what is the highest master level chain has any of you reached in the Promyvion camps?

If it were bait, I'd enjoy the paragraph replies as successfully baited. Instead of preempting you not to. And then having to explain a thing that needed not be explained... to be met with more paragraphs.

Not an answer to your question directly, but I got something around chain 240+ on Apex Mandragoras, before I needed to go out. I don't think it would be anything different in Promyvion tho. Also I feel like the biggest time cut between kills to keep chain is somewhere between chain 30 and 40, but after that it seems to not go much lower, if it goes lower at all, even at 200+.

In Promy I saw 40-something before it broke. Think that was the highest.

Wow and FFXIV both feel like this to me.

That being said, we can kinda argue that Job Points, Merit Points, and now Master Levels are a type of linear vertical progression.

Yeah, but JP dont make merits useless and ML dont make JP useless. vertical progression of character itself is ok, but in a game like ffxi, that requires a lot of grinding for gear, typical vertical gear progression done every several months, making 95% of your gear obsolete would totally suck.

Chain 97 in Promy-Mae Floor 1 camp. I was so sad to miss 100.

I guess my gripe with proper vertical GEAR progression after living it in early FFXIV is this. If you need the gear from Raid A to even do Raid B, why does gear exist at all? If there is no (or very little) freedom in how you gear, you have absolutely no choice but to get the gear that is required. Endgame in FFXIV was "if you do not have the required gear, you will not meet the mandatory DPS check in this fight to win". Where do you get the required gear? Gated weeklies. And you need that gear. You have no choice. There is no alternative.

If there is no freedom to choose your gear (or participate in endgame content with lesser gear), why does gear exist in the first place, is the question that rattles around in my head. Like, am I crazy for thinking gear shouldn't exist at that point? It should simply be level-ups and the stat increases that comes with it that matter. I contend that gear in games that use linear gear vertical progression models is simply a shiny carrot on a stick.


The thing about job points, merit points, and master levels is that you don't really need any of them to function properly. None of them are required to beat mandatory DPS checks, because those don't really exist in FFXI. Heck, if you wanted a neat little challenge, you could fight Reisen HELMs without any mastered jobs or merit points and you could probably still win. Job/merit/master are certainly linear in the way that they improve your character, but the gear choices you make still play the leading role when it comes to your success or failure.

That's not really how it works in 14 though. The raid gear is the pinnacle gear of every patch that has a raid in it, and every other patch introduces gear a half-step down from that, obtainable from less "hardcore" sources as a handicap to help people who can't progress straight through the raid. When new expansions start they raise the item level floor past the pinnacle gear and you start the cycle over again.


The gear exists as a check you need to pass, which isn't something you can accomplish with level checks. Anyone can level up. The act of obtaining the next level of gear is meant to prove you're ready to work on the next rung of the gear ladder.

#124 in promy holla floor 4. Was nice getting 1300-1400 a kill.

2 cents: the way the item level tag is currently designed is completely and utterly meaningless. It made more sense to denote the difference between certain item levels compared to content levels back when they implemented the system originally, but once we hit 119 and they started just rolling out more and more 119 ***it lost the plot entirely.

Either keep it or get rid of it. There doesn't need to be a numerical distinction between, say, having a piece of unaugmented Nyame at 123 and a piece of augmented Nyame at 125, but having a basic pair of pummeler's gloves +1 at 119 and a pair of augmented sakpata/nyame at 119 renders that number completely devoid of any meaning.

There are clear separations in item potency that can be labeled with 121/123/125/whatever without needing to analyze and granularly label each individual piece of equipment with its own separate number. There is an obvious, albeit slow due to the game being on a drip feed of new content, vertical scale when it comes to gear and job progression.

They should just get rid of item level, I never liked the idea to begin with for FFXI.

I agree, yes. At the time of its inception I actually didn't mind it as a concept but now it is so pointless and meaningless that it doesn't need to exist.

That'd require work rejiggering trusts to operate on something else, so SE wouldn't do it.

Keep ilvl, but grade only weapons.
Tie trust level to mainhand ilvl.

Happy 20th, FFXI!