April 2018 Version Update

That question was already answered, I hope you enjoy your totally meaningless conclusion! I look forward to seeing how you apply it in game

I'm not even the one that wanted to know. Kuroganashi asked.

I just made it more specific.

That explains a lot

Obviously negating a couple white damage attacks (via whichever augment you choose) isn't going to change much.

But one will (given all information) have an advantage. Being tp feed. all 3 give varying amounts of tp to the enemy, resulting in more (less) tp moves (potentially).

There is a real answer for which is best, counter parry or pdt. The difference is incredibly small, but there is a best nonetheless.

Counter does give tp, parry however does not. The attack from a counter is treated as a normal attack for monster tp purposes.

General question, looking for somewhat informed opinions, inventory space concerns, so I don't want to make multiple TP capes with different defensive options.

Also I have potato reflexes so I only make it into proper defensive sets half of the time on enemy ws, and often I only swap into a hybrid engaged set that has about 30% DT currently when I have hate.

I primarily am using these kind of DDs for things like Omen, Ru'Aun/Zi'tah/Reisen lowman.

With the above stipulations what defensive augment should I put on non-tank DDs that do pull hate sometimes, I'm mostly torn between DT and Resist, but any answer may help me make up my mind.

I am aware of this, but also, counter does not always give tp. If the counter misses, it's essentially a parry.

If you're only making a single cape and you aren't tanking 100% of the time it's going to be DT or status resist.

If the counter misses you don't counter at all... the attack has to connect for counter to work. Perfect counter is the only way to bypass this.

If you "miss" the counter, you take zero damage, and give zero tp.

You still counter their attack, but fail to land the attack. This is for all intents and purposes, a parry.

So it becomes;
pdt:always
counter10%:sometimes < 10%
parry:never 5%

The hiccup is that <10%

No you don't. You will only perform a counterattack if you a) get a counter proc and THEN b) the counterattack passes its regular hit check. If you get a counter proc and then miss the counterattack, the counter will not activate and you will be hit as normal. You will never see a counterattack miss unless you're using perfect counter.

Also to clarify, I have multiple capes, but I can't justify the extra inventory space of +2 TP capes per DD job.

I was personally thinking Resist on the TP capes, DT on the WS capes (Since I'd be likely to have 0 DT in my WS set, unlike where in many cases during TP I'd have a decent amount in hybrid.)

Theorically, counter/parry would probably save more mp. Counter gives more dmg and parry saves shadows.

Realistically, pdt- or mdt- creates more room for error or lag, it's like how people "lock" D ring and neck in extremely dangerous BC like unafraid of the dark in 2016 in certain phase to reduce the risk of random death.

Except there are even less dps lose from locking certain slots for dt- now. You can even do that to ws back.

Best probably depends on if you are looking at this from more practical pov or assuming absolute perfect play.

Personally I would use parry with /nin for the purpose of saving shadows and pdt-/mdt- on very dangerous things that just doesn't have room for error to *** up.

That's a good idea. Can't go wrong with more status resistance.

Thats a good idea.

If thats the case, then 10% PDT and 10% counter are not equal.

10PDT is 10%

counter is 100% (not a full 10% of the time due to failing) ends up at something like 9.5~?%,

and parries are 100% 5% of the time which comes out to, what?

pdt 10 > counter 9.5 > parry still flat 5%?

"total physical melee hit damage reduction"

PDT will still not be better than counter after accounting for hitrate. You can reduce the amount of tp that you give with a melee hit, you cannot reduce the amount that a monster receives by hitting you. In the case of trusts and trigger happy human healers, countering an attack can save an entire cure worth of MP and some overheal. Once again though there is no catch all solution because it is based entirely on what is being fought and player job/skill, and other equipped gear.

When you adjust for STP do you not give more tp to the enemy with a counter than you would by letting them hit you?

Assuming zero subtle blow, as this isn't a monk question. (suppose that would depend on the job)

Does a counter give a set amount of tp, or is it based on what a normal physical attack would do.

Store TP doesn't cause you to feed extra tp. Your AGI will lower tp feed, and some melee gear does have built in subtle blow. How much tp you're giving vs how much they receive is dependent on too many variables to give any blanket answer but suffice to say I doubt most jobs would give more tp from a counterattack than they'd give by blood tanking.

If we're really trying to compare them like that, PDT isn't 10% when we take into account our other mitigation tools that come first, if we evade/shadow/parry/counter our PDT doesn't apply for that hit, so it's only 10% of the attacks that land, also you can't really count counter as 9.5% because you don't always have 95% Accuracy, sometimes you have less, sometimes more (assuming the 99% mainhand acc for dual wielders is what's checked on counters).

Also 10% PDT may be less effective proportionally (in the case of Barrier Tusk) or more effective due to synergy in the case of Phalanx.

There's also the factor of being unable to counter/parry with your back turned/idle, and the minor upside of counter/parry preventing spell interruption.

I'm not saying there's no answer here, I'm just saying taking them all into account and weighing them against each other mathematically is tough without extremely specific scenarios in mind.

Also I'm not sure how Guard/Shield Block works exactly, but this is a factor on some jobs when comparing, also not to mention, in much the same way as if you have "50% triple attack, 50% double attack", your actual double attack rate is only 25%, as you can't proc both, evading/parrying/countering suffer from the same overlapping issue in terms of mitigation.

IE, if it works as Cherrywine said, in the case of:
Evasion, Parry, Shadows, and then Counter.

50% Evasion, 50% Parry, 50% Counter (With 100% accuracy), your expected distribution would be:

50% Evaded Attacks, 25% Parried Attacks, 12.5% Countered attacks, 12.5% attacks hit you in the face.

Someone more mathematically inclined can correct me if I got the math wrong there, but I think you get the general concept of what I'm saying, but point is +5% Parry != 5% Mitigation, even if it's uncapped and that's the actual rate and facing/engaged was always accounted for etc.

To Eiryl:
10% Counter is going to be somewhere between 9.5%~9.9% Counter at capped hit rate. Less if accuracy is uncapped. Per the wiki, "This trait caps at 80% (76% after accuracy check)," so before adding Counter +10, make sure one doesn't have more than 70 already. I know you know this. Just starting from the beginning.
Assuming capped accuracy (whether 95% or 99% capped hit rate)... Over the course of an average 100 would-be successful attacks (so we can ignore the player's evasion rate) by your forever bunny in DRG Salvage, you would Counter 9 normal attacks.
To benefit, you must be engaged, facing the target and tanking.
You would return X damage to the bunny 9 times.
The bunny would get some amount of TP each time.
If you are DRG/NIN, these counters would not save any of your shadows.
You would avoid taking a normal hit 9 times, saving your healer from curing you for 900 damage.

5% Parry, if it really is a flat 5% Parry...
Over the course of an average 100 would-be successful attacks by your forever bunny in DRG Salvage, you would Parry 5 attacks.
To benefit, you must be engaged, facing the target, but you don't need to be tanking.
No damage would be returned to the bunny.
The bunny would not get any TP.
If you are DRG/NIN, you saved 5 shadows--possibly before a crappy TP move.
If you parried 5 normal hits, you saved your healer from curing you for 500 damage. If you parried a TP move, you saved more. If you were /NIN and saved shadows prior to a TP move, you saved more. If you were /NIN, the saved shadows meant you had to recast fewer times, increasing your DPS by some small amount comparable to the increase in DPS from Countering.

10% PDT...
Engaged or not, facing any direction, you would save your healer from curing you for 1000 damage, 10 damage per hit, from normal attacks. More on TP moves.
No damage was returned to the bunny.
The bunny would get normal TP.
No shadows saved.
Don't have to be engaged, tanking or facing to gain this benefit.

Which is best for you? Only you can decide that.

To Selindrile:
I'm debating the same. -5% DT on WS capes is a great idea. On TP capes, -5% DT is a solid choice if you want to add straight up increased survival and aren't already capped or have a good hybrid set to roll in during phases of concern.
Where my internal debate begins is whether Magic Evasion +15 is better than Status Resistance +10. If a player's magical evasion is floored, status resistance is better for reducing the time spent rocked by status effects.
But we all know how good adding up to +25 magic evasion to a piece can be from ye olde Skirmish days. +15 is nothing to dismiss without a thought, and it could help with more than just status resistance.
Where I'm teetering now is, Status Resistance +10 is for DDing on RUN or in some set with high Magic Evasion. If wearing moderate Magic Evasion, than adding +15 seems best. If wearing trash Magic Evasion, Status Resistance +10 seems best.

I hope this helps. I haven't had coffee yet.

Thats a really long way of saying exactly what i said

10>9.5~>5 Then account for TP/damage

And I -did- give an extremely, exact specific scenario, per sel's reply

The answer being, PDT > Counter > Parry

But then the real question involving tp fed and damage/tp makes counter theoretically take first.

Parry might keep you alive longest. Unless you are fighting toads which literally cannot use TP moves.

Bonus points to anyone that uses one of their first month's capes specifically for killing toads.

In a situation where something is only hitting me for 100 damage, regen sounds pretty nice actually....

My comment has no use outside of this "100 damage fixed rate scenario" tho

This is -exactly- why I asked.

Now I wish I read back farther
- I'll take my loss

Eiryl, you threw a fit all night because no one would answer your question. I wake up, did the math for you, and now you are throwing a fit because you want to affirm you knew the answer.

Peace.

I think this argument is absurd, honestly.

In a fight of 100 attacks until you die, parry/counter can be better, sure! In reality you're only 2-3 hits from dead in some of these fights, if that 10% PDT gets me +1 hit consistently, it's best. I'd rather not pray RNG goes my way, I've been playing FFXI long enough to know not to bet on that.

I think Parry or Counter only works for a tank scenario where they're already at 50% PDT (and parry wins) or a niche hybrid scenario for everyone else. PDT is going to be the standard augment that will more reliably work for you and you can count on and build a set around.

I agree, the argument is absurd. The analysis is interesting, especially if it helps someone.

Counter is only useful in a tanking scenario. If going down this path, a PLD would most benefit from the straight increase to Block or Parry rates since its accuracy is generally well below any cap, making Counter +10 approach +0... Still, I prefer Moonlight for PLD.

A RUN wearing Turms would benefit most from Parry. Without Turms, and in a high accuracy tanking set, one could argue for Counter as a last-ditch, Plan D in the hierarchy of diminishing physical damage from normal attacks. But, for higher content, it wouldn't help as much as Parry and I think Status resistance +10 would still be more generally useful of all. Mostly just opinion, but informed opinion.

As far as the standard augment... I don't know if I agree it should be -10% PDT. Yes, it is likely better than Parry, even though Parry would help mitigate physical damage of any job (excluding H2H users) engaged without the need to be tanking, synergizing well with shadows. Sure, assuming Shell, -% MDT isn't as useful, certainly not in high quantities. But are physical attacks what generally drop folks? I would think -5% DT, as a catch-all, or Magic Evasion +15, to reduce the damage of things like Interference beyond what Shell would do, or if Shell is dispelled, would be better choices?