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 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-15 11:55:58
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Quote:
[12:27:34] [12:27:34] 1
[12:27:46] [12:27:46] 2
[12:27:47] Sjugy Fire Maneuver → Sjugy (Overload)
[12:27:53] Sjugy is no longer Overload.
[12:27:58] [12:27:58] 3
[12:27:59] Sjugy Fire Maneuver → Sjugy (Overload)
[12:28:10] [12:28:10] 4 (did not actually get used because I was overloaded)
[12:28:21] Sjugy is no longer Overload.
[12:28:22] [12:28:22] 5
[12:28:34] [12:28:34] 6
[12:28:46] [12:28:46] 7
[12:28:47] Sjugy Fire Maneuver → Sjugy (Overload)
[12:29:53] Sjugy is no longer Overload.

* 6 seconds from a 2-maneuver overload
* Followed by 22 seconds from a 3-maneuver overload

So it looks like the act of overloading does not decrease your heat, which continues to decay as normal.

These are followed by a 66 second overload from a 6-maneuver Overload with 72 seconds delay from the first maneuver.

I thought I had already posted this, but don't see it. This is a formula that fits all of my data:
Overload Duration = (20*[Number of Maneuvers]) - Floor([Time since first maneuver in seconds]/3,1) - 30

Edit: I'll note that my model basically mirrors the ffxiclopedia one, except that I've only tested with Bad Burden so far and they arbitrarily set the threshold at 32-33. I read the ffxiclopedia model for the first time when I wrote this edit.
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-15 12:13:30
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If you multiply by 3 it will match the JP model exactly and will fit for Kenkonken.
 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-15 12:42:58
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How do they rationalize multiplying it by 3?
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2013-05-15 12:44:07
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Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
[12:27:53] Sjugy is no longer Overload.

I like when battlemod tells me that "Ashman is no longer slow."

I feel like I became smarter.
[+]
 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-15 12:48:00
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Ragnarok.Ashman said: »
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
[12:27:53] Sjugy is no longer Overload.

I like when battlemod tells me that "Ashman is no longer slow."

I feel like I became smarter.

Offtopic, but there should be a fix for this coming out within a week. I gave Radec a sheet of every past-tense debuff (overloaded, slowed, etc.) with the associated status IDs. He said they'd be in at some point this week probably. I also included Skillchain properties for all weaponskills, so we should be able to get a real skillchain tracking plugin in the future. Like, you use a WS and it shows that the monster is chainbound/what statuses. Then you use another and it can calculate what the resulting skillchain is, shows the monster is still chainbound with the new skillchain element, etc.
[+]
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-15 12:48:36
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The JP model describes it as resting time. One maneuver induces 60 seconds of resting time and the initial threshold is 90
of resting time.

All 3 gear pieces raise the threshold to 240 in their model.
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-15 12:49:47
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Fenrir.Sylow said: »
The JP model describes it as resting time. One maneuver induces 60 seconds of resting time and the initial threshold is 90 seconds of resting time.

Okay, that works too.
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-15 12:51:57
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It also ends up making Kenkonken work although I'm not sure why my values are off by one instance of reduces overload (+15)
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2013-05-15 13:43:21
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Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
Ragnarok.Ashman said: »
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
[12:27:53] Sjugy is no longer Overload.

I like when battlemod tells me that "Ashman is no longer slow."

I feel like I became smarter.

Offtopic, but there should be a fix for this coming out within a week. I gave Radec a sheet of every past-tense debuff (overloaded, slowed, etc.) with the associated status IDs. He said they'd be in at some point this week probably. I also included Skillchain properties for all weaponskills, so we should be able to get a real skillchain tracking plugin in the future. Like, you use a WS and it shows that the monster is chainbound/what statuses. Then you use another and it can calculate what the resulting skillchain is, shows the monster is still chainbound with the new skillchain element, etc.

You are easily the coolest person with a panda avatar! (seriously though, nice ^^)
 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-15 13:49:14
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With Player Stat > Auto Stat:
4 = 23 seconds
7 = 71 seconds

Hmm... Okay, nevermind. I forgot that using maneuvers increases my automaton's stats.
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-15 13:51:22
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The JP model claims that the stat is reduced with each point of dSTAT with a cap of 4 so you'd need to equip gear for each maneuver to keep it consistent
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-15 13:55:05
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Yeah, looks like I can't actually test it that way. Using maneuvers increases my automaton's stats, and I can't exactly stack DEX gear on a level 1 PUP.

My DEX: 9
Auto's DEX: 8

First maneuver has dDEX = -1
Second maneuver has dDEX = 0
Every maneuver after that, the Auto has more DEX than me.

So it makes sense that I see the same slope between 4 and 7 maneuvers (which are all performed with 3 maneuvers active.) The difference in intercept (23 vs. 38) must be attributed to the first two maneuvers. So somehow having dDEX = -1 and 0 drops 15 burden.
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-15 13:55:10
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This wouldn't affect your data above would it
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-15 13:56:24
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It doesn't affect the stuff I did with Fire Maneuvers, but it stops me from doing tests with My stats > Auto Stats.
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-15 14:00:08
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I just did it for stats that were high enough above the automaton that I would always be +4

It seemed to go from 60 --- 45
Heatsink seemed to go from 60 --- 50
Heatsink + dStat ---- 60 ---- 35

Of course my model is weird but it does sort of give things to look at
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-15 15:38:54
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Okay so

With Alternator and Tension Spring I+II (+9% attack) and no maneuvers Mushroom seems to be RATT capped on Lesser Colibri (L63-65) (and presumably fSTR since there is no difference between the damage on lesser colibri and the nearby fomor's bats)

Wihout Alternator and the same attachments Mushroom is not RATT capped on Lesser Colibri
using 3 fire maneuvers (27%) caps attack but 2 fire maneuvers (+21%) does not

So between the presumed +27 Rattk from the additional STR from Alternator over two maneuver Mushroom we are getting at least 12% more attack out of Mushroom

Lesser colibri have 231-241 defense so Ranged Attack +40 is a reasonable value that could explain this difference

Yes I handwaved that calculation but now that you have the information someone else can deal with it! I could be entirely wrong =D

Either way ranger automaton with Alternator is sitting at greater than 658 ranged attack
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-15 16:14:12
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What is your puppet's STR? We could potentially just calculate the puppet's ranged attack. If your ranged skill is capped and merited (which it is) then that's 433 attack from merits, 8 base, and probably about 50 from stat (~500).



Alternator Case:
(Attack + 35)*1.09 > (231~241)*3
Attack > 601~628

Non-Alternator/2 Maneuver Case:
(Attack + 8 )*1.21 < (231~241)*3
Attack < 565~590

Non-Alternator/3 Maneuver Case:
(Attack + 12)*1.27 > (231~241)*3
Attack > 534~558

So yeah, your base Ranged Attack is between 534 and 590 and your Alternator Ranged Attack is at least 601. There's at least an 11 Ranged Attack boost from Alternator.
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-15 16:27:17
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STR is base 92 (+13)
My Automaton has 417 ranged skill (Out of a possible 427) and there are 5 merits in optimization (Attack+25%) affecting both cases

Dunno if that changes anything~
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By Asura.Slugman 2013-05-15 16:31:51
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All this talk of overloading - synergy automatically dinged in my head. if the impurities (heat) goes >30% (degrees) you begin with a chance for the furnace to pop, with each percent >30 you go, the more chance for the furnace to pop. There is no furnace pressure analogy i can think of though (how hard it pops when it does pop, although you can think of overloading as a pop with a static delta), but think of cooldown as a precision thwack.

Also, regarding the volt gun, pre-alternator, volt gun was doing 40-50dmg on DC-EM mobs.
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-15 16:39:13
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Fenrir.Sylow said: »
STR is base 92 (+13)
My Automaton has 417 ranged skill (Out of a possible 427) and there are 5 merits in optimization (Attack+25%) affecting both cases

Dunno if that changes anything~

I would predict ranged attack (without Alternator) of 596 then, which is higher than your non-Alternator 2-maneuver case. If monsters do not get a base of 8 attack, then it would work out and you would have 588 attack, which means you would have fought the highest level Colibri to uncap your ranged attack in the 2-maneuver case. This would mean that Alternator gives you at least 13 ranged attack.
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-15 16:40:52
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I'll go talk to some Greater Colibris!
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-15 16:42:07
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You don't need to, I think. Just fight Lesser Colibri and note the XP they give when you kill them. Then do an Alternator case without Tension Spring II.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Lucieus 2013-05-15 16:45:04
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Fenrir.Sylow said: »
Okay so

With Alternator and Tension Spring I+II (+9% attack) and no maneuvers Mushroom seems to be RATT capped on Lesser Colibri (L63-65) (and presumably fSTR since there is no difference between the damage on lesser colibri and the nearby fomor's bats)

Wihout Alternator and the same attachments Mushroom is not RATT capped on Lesser Colibri using 3 fire maneuvers (27%) caps attack but 2 fire maneuvers (+21%) does not

So between the presumed +27 Rattk from the additional STR from Alternator over two maneuver Mushroom we are getting at least 12% more attack out of Mushroom

Lesser colibri have 231-241 defense so Ranged Attack +40 is a reasonable value that could explain this difference

Yes I handwaved that calculation but now that you have the information someone else can deal with it! I could be entirely wrong =D

It's sounding like Jkuns...

Sylph.Jkun said: »
+40 all the things.

is sounding more and more true then?

+70 All Stats, +40 MAB/MACC/ATK/R.ATK/ACC/R.ACC/EVA/DEF?
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-15 16:51:47
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LV 63 Lesser Colibri + Alternator
No Tension Springs
Capped
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-15 16:58:39
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63 Lesser Colibri (Animator)
Tension Spring I only + 1 Fire Maneuver
Uncapped

64 Lesser Colibri (animator)
Tension Spring I + 3 fire maneuvers
Uncapped
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-15 17:01:03
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63 Lesser Colibri + Animator + 3 Fire Maneuvers
Tension Spring I Only
Uncapped
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-05-15 17:06:15
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What does it all mean, Basil?
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-15 17:07:13
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I'm going to smack some Greater Colibri just to exclude the extreme upper limit
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-15 17:27:42
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With 3 fire maneuvers up on LV81 greater colibri (Def 322 VIT 67) and Tension Spring I + II and Alternator

(STR92+83+24 - capped 49 fSTR)

I am hitting consistently for 1106 which is the same as the capped amount on Lessers and the LV60 Fomor's Bats in the area

I occasionally hit for slightly less (1082) so I tink this means that I am not capped on them - but am close to it - but I have a poor understanding of ranged PDIF so Byrth will have to correct me on this one
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