Low-man Sky Yumm

Relevant to the original discussion:

"This was actual 4man 7box with a thf for last hit. Our setup was 2pld, 2rdm, 2brd, 1drk and a npc thf. 7relic presented for the fight, 2aegis/excalibur, 2ghorn and a apoc, the fight was done within a hour. Happy hunting~"

(http://www.ffxiah.com/screenshots.php?id=23751)

Sleepga's a ***, isn't it?

Sleepga > Deadly Hold > One dead NIN.

I'm overestimating nothing about kiting Kirin. Solo, it is difficult to live. There's more than simply running out of range about it. Nobody to cure you if you get hit, nobody to erase bind if you get bound...

And as mentioned previously, Sleepga is going to wipe any solo kiter.

Kirin is estimated to have ~60,000 hp according to wiki. Going back on old Kirin zerg parses I can confirm the lowest I have seen is 46K and up to 60,935 HP @ the highest out of 20+ parse results.

If your math above is correct it would be 60,000/100 = 600hp

600/5 = 120hp a tick

About as easy to avoid as Meteor from Kaiser Behemoth, if you keep moving. Kirin starts casting at 28 feet, and 30 feet is where you're out of range so unless you've stopped for any reason, you'll be out of range before casting finishes.

All the Kirins I've fought have had nowhere near those hit points. The problem with Wiki is anyone can edit it, which means it's not always right. You don't really need to parse to see Kirin's hit points, just monitor the damage people are doing and judge for yourself. If 1.4k wind blade is taking off 1% every time, there's no way he can have 60k HP.

Sleepga casts in about 2 seconds. Presuming it's daytime and you're moving at 100%, Kirin has to start casting at '26 feet for you to be out of range. How many times have you kited Kirin? I kite him all the time and I'm rarely ever '26 feet or further away. That's with movement plus; so I honestly don't know what the *** you are talking about.

It's not for you to judge what is or isn't a waste of time for other people. Speaking as a fact just shows your ignorance.

I agree with Wooooodum though wiki can be very misleading at times. Pretty much the same reason you don't typically want to bank a college paper off of wiki lmao.

If 1.4k is taking off 1% every time then he could have over 100k <_<
Second comment...
It's not so much a matter of stopping, as it is not being able to run directly away from kirin at all times, the room is a stupid shape.

7 char (the fact 4 people are playing them is irrelevant :d); 7 relics. That's far from 5 characters and no relic (or just couple ones). Nice one still :)

Yes, and that screenshot is what made me decide to try it with fewer and fewer people.

Nice detective work though, assuming that a comment 3 months ago automatically means I can't do anything.

A little too self-involved, aren't you. I posted because it is/was relevant to the earlier lowman Kirin talk, not because of any comment you may have posted on the page.

Your biggest problem is you're basically contradicting what the majority of the posters have done here themselves. I've kited Kirin many times and I don't think I've ever managed to avoid a sleepga. It casts very fast, and Kirin is usually always able to catch up to you. This is with movement plus; Kirin has enhanced movement, this is definite. Since you have to run in a circle around the room, what are the chances of you being 26' or further from Kirin when he starts casting Sleepga? You have to arc around a pillar, and since Kirin is in the direction you're arcing, he arcs closer to you and can make up '20 in a couple of seconds. I just think it's nonsense that you seem to think a NIN can "Easily" solo kite him.

Maybe it's possible, but you'd have to have luck go your side every single time. Not sure I'd bank a hard earned Kirin pop of my shell's on this luck, to be honest.

I'm not talking about you. As you can see from my quote, it was directed at Blazza, who was the one bringing it up.

If you don't trust your party members to do their job, then that's fine. You don't have to risk seals for it.

I, for one, only continue to play this game to push the limits of what can be done with smaller groups or solo.

You keep doing it your way, and I'll keep doing it my way.

If 1.4K took off 1%hp from him that would = 140K hp(1.4x100=140,000)

I could post every parse we have on file and not 1 of them have anywhere close to 20K

Just for information sake .. 20K hp = 200hp/1% so a 1.4K Ws would take off 14.29% hp from Kirin.

Right, it's possible, but only if you got a load of relics and PLD or RDM with cap magic/phys dmg down gear XD

Not that i'm uber experianced (cus im not), but i've kited kirin pld/war (no w.legs) for over half a hour a few times and sooner or later he slaps me with bad luck >.>

It's nothing to do with that. I wouldn't trust solo kiting kirin with zero support to anyone, because I know you're talking ***. I trust my kiters completely, but I wouldn't expect them to do the impossible.

You also ignored my previous post about Sleepga, the one that, y'know, proved you wrong. Want to reply, or are you conceeding that you're talking ***?

This one. With that, how is it possible to solo kite? Sleepga > Deadly Hold > Death.

It was a discussion at first but now you're just being an ***.

I have always worked of the estimation of 50-60k HP.

The maths simply doesn't support him having any less, as Dizzmal pointed out.

I don't understand how expecting a response to a good point is being an ***. If you don't have a response because it's correct, say so and we can move on. Otherwise people will just lose any and all credability you've built up because you're hedging from giving an answer to a point that's contradicting you.

Re. Maths: Yeah, that's a good point. Best to ignore my maths because I'm not very good at it.

I didn't respond because Blazza basically took my thought and reworded it.

It's hard to go out of range because the room is circular and you're not always running 180 degrees directly away from Kirin, but if you know what you're doing and can keep an eye behind you, then running isn't a problem.

Again, it's nothing to do with running. Sleepga casts in about two seconds, and without movement plus, you're running at 100%. Sleepga would need to start casting near maximum range for you to run out of range; and because of the circular room, Kirin's movement speed, etc, the likelihood of you constantly being at that range is next to impossible.

One sleepga would certainly hurt you a ***load, and quite probably kill you, depending on what TP moves he uses after. So unless you luck out and Kirin stops to cast Quake everytime, I really couldn't believe somebody could solo kite for 30 minutes and live. You'd have to be the most lucky person alive, and even then, you'd be hard stretched to live.

Remember, solo kiting you have zero form of HP recovery, so everything you lose stays lost. Losing 500 from Great Whirlwind would mean you are now kiting with 500 less HP. Just makes kiting even more dangerous.

Everytime I've kited Kirin, I've found it nearly impossible to avoid being slept. I've never kited solo and have had support, but I know full well from what happened after I got slept that I wouldn't survive solo.

Sleepga > Deadly Hold will more or less one shot a solo NIN, and if not, it will hurt him.

I do have to agree with Enternius that it isn't that hard to kite kirin solo. I have done it many times as Pld/Nin. That being said I don't act foolish enough to not think that there will be times when you get crappy luck and get pwned. I normally run 2pld/nin and 1 rdm/whm for bind if somthing goes bad. We run 2 kiters just incase 1 catches bad luck. I have had spouts where I have kited for 30min+ without losing a shadow while stoping to cast flash.

In the end Solo Kirin kiting can be done. Just depends on how much you want to risk to try it.


Edit: I don't know about Nin/Drk. My experience is with Pld/Nin

His definition of solo kiting Kirin is with zero support. No buffs, no healers, nothing. Literally solo. As I said previously, unless you luck out in every circumstance, you're going to get owned sooner or later. Luck just plays a role in how long you last.

I'm not going to argue that Sleepga > Deadly hold will kill a NIN. That's an obvious fact.

What I'm saying is that you can run ~5 feet in one second, and as long as it's not within 20 feet, you'll be out of casting range before it goes off. And that's not counting Movement speed, which NIN has up more often than not.

You can also use Sprinter's Shoes/Talaria to increase chances that you won't get hit. They don't wear off unless you get hit directly, which you shouldn't be doing while kiting. That means a guaranteed 12% movement speed during the day and 37% during the night.

With enough skill, it shouldn't be too difficult to run out of range. The only thing you have to pay attention to is running in a straight line directly away from Kirin.

NQ AF Feet is 12 hours of 25%, 12 hours of 0%. HQ AF Feet is 14 hours of 25%, 10 hours of 0%. "More often than not" implies that this movement plus is a benefit to a ninja kiting; which it might be, but for NQ owners, half of the time, and for HQ owners, 1/6th of the time more.

But you will get hit... It's impossible to avoid not being hit full stop by Kirin. When you kite in one direction and come across the circular corner, you have to cross back on your kiting path around the other side of the pillar. This means you're backing towards Kirin; unless he happened to cast Quake at the time, he's going to at least get an attack round in. There goes your movement plus. Also, how on earth would you apply them? If you do it before he's popped you have quite a high chance of them being attacked off as soon as he's popped, as sometimes he takes a round before he starts to cast his first spell.

One swing, even if shadows absorb, will remove the enhancement. He's going to get one in sooner or later, and it's just plain incorrect to say he won't. It's a circular room with limited kiting space. =\

It really doesn't, you can not guarantee not getting hit. /facepalm

In my opinion, it's not about skill. It's about luck. And I think a lot of people would agree with me. I know many skilled kiters, myself included, who can have trouble with Kirin based on some bad luck. You must be the world's most super duper kiter imaginable if your skill alone means you'll never get hurt by Kirin solo.

It is about skill. Your responses just proved that whoever kites for your shell doesn't have enough skill to pull it off correctly.

Even his TP moves require some charge time. If you know what you're doing, there's no reason you should ever be hit while kiting. End of story.

Not that this has been used, because he would have mentioned it, but poison potion + pamama au laut is a simple fix to sleepga.

Now who's being an ***, hmm?

My kiters are very good players, and I myself kite, and I'm a good player too. I get hit now and then, so does the PLD/NIN. It's going to happen unconditionally sooner or later, unless you have an exceptional run of luck. You seem to have this mental image in your head that Kirin is chasing the kiter around a running track, so the kiter is always gaining ground. When you run into a corner and around a pillar to avoid Kirin, he's not going to follow your path. He's going to take the quickest route to your position; it's at this moment he will make distance up, and possibly at least get a melee swing off.

No manner of skill can manipulate Kirin's running path. You can use the tiny pillars when he's close enough to your advantage; but sooner or later he's going to get something off, even if your shadows absorb it.

And if you say, "That's not true, you've got no skill", post a video to back it up. Because right now, you're talking complete ***.

Still wipes shadows and stops you from running briefly, which is the dangerous part. It will increase the chance of Kirin gaining on you and TPing you, which through shadows, has the ability to one shot people (Deadly Hold). Also, you'll have to re-apply these all the time, which will be difficult if you're kiting.