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Stage 4 Prime Weapon's effect on Sortie
Carbuncle.Maletaru
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3,231
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2023-08-07 08:45:15
Or, if your group is already smashing 8/8 with time to spare, you could bring a THF in place of one of your DDs, even if it is a DPS loss, to increase drop rates of items. 1~5k muffins is less valuable in most people's eyes compared to more +1 cases, if TH is a real factor.
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34
By Asura.Auxtaru 2023-08-07 09:43:03
I doubt anyone arguing against applying highest available TH. People only arguing, that feelings are not facts.
If we know for sure TH helps, then THF could be a solid alternative as DD and that's the biggest difference between feeling it and knowing it.
"I'm gonna listen and apply TH as you are suggesting, but I want you to know what you are stating is a feeling and not a fact"
You must be fun at parties. That said weren't you the guy who was trying to tell Mischief how they should have handled v25s after they shared their clear strat despite not having even attempted the fight on v25?
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Phoenix.Iocus
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1,869
By Phoenix.Iocus 2023-08-07 09:54:47
I doubt anyone arguing against applying highest available TH. People only arguing, that feelings are not facts.
If we know for sure TH helps, then THF could be a solid alternative as DD and that's the biggest difference between feeling it and knowing it.
"I'm gonna listen and apply TH as you are suggesting, but I want you to know what you are stating is a feeling and not a fact"
You must be fun at parties. That said weren't you the guy who was trying to tell Mischief how they should have handled v25s after they shared their clear strat despite not having even attempted the fight on v25?
boo! personal attack for no reason
We're old people playing an old game. No one here cares about how fun you are at parties. They only care if you're actually good at playing and/or if you can post in a way that could be helpful to others...or Trolling...good Trolling.
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Carbuncle.Maletaru
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3,231
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2023-08-07 09:57:04
"I'm gonna listen and apply TH as you are suggesting, but I want you to know what you are stating is a feeling and not a fact"
If I said that you get better drops from the boss by killing it from the South, someone could be tempted to do that, despite the fact that it's probably total nonsense, because it doesn't cost them anything. They could, at the same time, say that it was not fact-based analysis and just complete guesswork on my part.
That said weren't you the guy who was trying to tell Mischief how they should have handled v25s after they shared their clear strat despite not having even attempted the fight on v25?
I don't remember the details of this conversation, but let's be honest here, you don't need to enter a fight to offer advice on how to complete it. If someone said they were using Boost-AGI on the Kalunga fight, you could easily suggest they switch to Boost-STR without having personal experience with the fight.
I don't understand why people get their panties in a bunch about people offering advice or suggestions; you can just ignore the advice or suggestion if you want, you don't need to hold a months-long grudge and bring it back up about some unrelated subject.
Server: Cerberus
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2023-08-07 10:02:55
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »"I'm gonna listen and apply TH as you are suggesting, but I want you to know what you are stating is a feeling and not a fact"
If I said that you get better drops from the boss by killing it from the South, someone could be tempted to do that, despite the fact that it's probably total nonsense, because it doesn't cost them anything. They could, at the same time, say that it was not fact-based analysis and just complete guesswork on my part.
That said weren't you the guy who was trying to tell Mischief how they should have handled v25s after they shared their clear strat despite not having even attempted the fight on v25?
I don't remember the details of this conversation, but let's be honest here, you don't need to enter a fight to offer advice on how to complete it. If someone said they were using Boost-AGI on the Kalunga fight, you could easily suggest they switch to Boost-STR without having personal experience with the fight.
I don't understand why people get their panties in a bunch about people offering advice or suggestions; you can just ignore the advice or suggestion if you want, you don't need to hold a months-long grudge and bring it back up about some unrelated subject.
He was definitely quoting someone else and not you.
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Carbuncle.Maletaru
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3,231
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2023-08-07 10:12:48
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »He was definitely quoting someone else and not you.
I understand and recognized that, points all still apply equally.
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By Godfry 2023-08-07 11:35:45
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »"I'm gonna listen and apply TH as you are suggesting, but I want you to know what you are stating is a feeling and not a fact"
If I said that you get better drops from the boss by killing it from the South, someone could be tempted to do that, despite the fact that it's probably total nonsense, because it doesn't cost them anything. They could, at the same time, say that it was not fact-based analysis and just complete guesswork on my part.
That said weren't you the guy who was trying to tell Mischief how they should have handled v25s after they shared their clear strat despite not having even attempted the fight on v25?
I don't remember the details of this conversation, but let's be honest here, you don't need to enter a fight to offer advice on how to complete it. If someone said they were using Boost-AGI on the Kalunga fight, you could easily suggest they switch to Boost-STR without having personal experience with the fight.
I don't understand why people get their panties in a bunch about people offering advice or suggestions; you can just ignore the advice or suggestion if you want, you don't need to hold a months-long grudge and bring it back up about some unrelated subject.
This is the battlecry of the Medalless Armchair General.
If you have ever been at the forefront of a new content, like Mschief's group, you would have realized the difference between priority and optimization.
When V25 came and we had little information about the fights, the groups that were ahead were mostly focussed on survivability, then damage. Once they beat the boss, they shared what worked for them. Mschief would even say "there's lots of room for improvement, but this is what worked for us".
In situations like this, you can congratulate the group that beat it first and thank them for sharing their strat, or you could make it about yourself and cherry-pick details that, in your head, would have made the fight easier. Your self-centered pea-size brain failed to realize that, if they have been beating everything before everyone, it's because they know what you know, they just didn't prioritize it.
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2023-08-07 11:58:17
So glad they're still some sanity in this world. Thank you for pointing out that the majority of critique come from people not even doing this content, but hey- they saw a video on YouTube.
Carbuncle.Maletaru
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3,231
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2023-08-07 12:19:29
I mean, I guess it depends WHO you're talking about when you say "majority of the critique comes from people not even doing this content" because this conversation first started by criticizing Simon, who is a terrible example of your point.
Assume this is the conversation in question
Please explain how speaking from personal experience with the V20 fight is totally irrelevant to discussing a V25 fight of the same NM. Is this just watching a YouTube video and then making wild guesses based on absolutely nothing?
IDK, maybe this happened multiple times, but once again I fail to see how someone speaking from their experience and offering suggestions (to this party, or to future parties attempting the fight) is a bad thing, or how it even remotely resembles what you're implying in your posts. People with V20 clears are medalless armchair generals, because their group hasn't cleared V25 yet. They've never even entered Odyssey before, what do they know?!
By Godfry 2023-08-07 12:57:05
Medals are awarded to distinguished services (Mschief's group sharing a viable strategy that we all benefit from), not for pissing on the grave of dead Kalungas...
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Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2023-08-07 13:05:23
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »I mean, I guess it depends WHO you're talking about when you say "majority of the critique comes from people not even doing this content" because this conversation first started by criticizing Simon, who is a terrible example of your point.
Assume this is the conversation in question
Please explain how speaking from personal experience with the V20 fight is totally irrelevant to discussing a V25 fight of the same NM. Is this just watching a YouTube video and then making wild guesses based on absolutely nothing?
IDK, maybe this happened multiple times, but once again I fail to see how someone speaking from their experience and offering suggestions (to this party, or to future parties attempting the fight) is a bad thing, or how it even remotely resembles what you're implying in your posts. People with V20 clears are medalless armchair generals, because their group hasn't cleared V25 yet. They've never even entered Odyssey before, what do they know?!
Dude- I have no clue who you are, where you play (if you still do), the jobs you have experience on, or if you prefer sweet potato fries over regular...and honestly I really don't care. I was responding to a post that was positive towards those who have done the work, only to take critiques the moment anything is said publicly (no wonder they don't want to yet! Its just an invitation for insult these days).
Me and Simon are cool- bad choice in trying to turn a conversation into "its all about MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!" instead of just a recognition of those who are still fighting the good fight.
Carbuncle.Nynja
Server: Carbuncle
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Posts: 5,031
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2023-08-07 13:20:36
Jfc all this because "I need to know if TH4 tagging a sortie boss will actually do anything" lol
Server: Cerberus
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Posts: 1,927
By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2023-08-07 13:23:19
Jfc all this because "I need to know if TH4 tagging a sortie boss will actually do anything" lol
Moot point, everyone knows that I'm getting my 32345th THF +1 earring in a row with minimum augments from my next +1 case.. :D
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Carbuncle.Maletaru
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3,231
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2023-08-07 13:27:50
Jfc all this because some *** brought up unrelated, ad hominem attacks about someone in a thread about TH4 on Sortie bosses lol
FTFY
By Godfry 2023-08-07 13:30:19
its all in the presentation. people who aren't doing can certainly offer possible solutions, but its easy to sound pretentious doing so if you aren't careful.
100% agree. And this is the good side of ffxi ah. A whole lot of information were shared by the community when people were still trying to beat V25s for the first time. It was super helpful! Toralin and Rua adjusted some of what Mschief did and shared it, also.
All I had to say at the time was to congratulate them, even though I would have done (and did some) it differently.
Now, there is big difference between how Saevel suggested TH might affect meso-drops, which was useful and people criticizing a successful strategy before even having access to the content.
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
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Posts: 10,164
By Asura.Saevel 2023-08-07 14:14:08
Jfc all this because "I need to know if TH4 tagging a sortie boss will actually do anything" lol
Only if you can prove it does to five sigma, then get that paper peer reviewed and published in a respected gaming journal.
By Serjero 2023-08-07 15:18:04
Jfc all this because "I need to know if TH4 tagging a sortie boss will actually do anything" lol
Only if you can prove it does to five sigma, then get that paper peer reviewed and published in a respected gaming journal.
Best I can do is 5 runs total where I might or might not have remembered to actually tag TH and have it published by Kotaku.
By Dodik 2023-08-07 16:15:19
So what I'm hearing is TH4+ on Odyssey bosses. Good to know.
Carbuncle.Nynja
Server: Carbuncle
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Posts: 5,031
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2023-08-07 17:25:45
I mean, they do have a 0.1% chance to drop Cats Eye
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By Lili 2023-08-09 17:23:14
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »I don't remember the details of this conversation, but let's be honest here, you don't need to enter a fight to offer advice on how to complete it. If someone said they were using Boost-AGI on the Kalunga fight, you could easily suggest they switch to Boost-STR without having personal experience with the fight.
And maybe it is in fact Boost-AGI that they wanted because those last couple points of Evasion from AGI is what matters.
Should never assume that you can logic your way through something you do not know.
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By Lili 2023-08-09 17:25:15
You would need 5500 damage per tic to do like 5M in 45min :)
Right.
New guess:
RDM RDM RDM RDM GEO RUN
Gravity, precision+torpor, distract+frazzle, then kite and 1dmg dagger enspell it to death.
Wud b laff.
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Server: Shiva
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By Shiva.Alistrianna 2023-08-09 17:50:58
My guess its thenoriginal strat, now with even moar AbsorpTP to counter the regain
Server: Valefor
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-08-09 17:52:44
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »I don't remember the details of this conversation, but let's be honest here, you don't need to enter a fight to offer advice on how to complete it. If someone said they were using Boost-AGI on the Kalunga fight, you could easily suggest they switch to Boost-STR without having personal experience with the fight.
And maybe it is in fact Boost-AGI that they wanted because those last couple points of Evasion from AGI is what matters.
Should never assume that you can logic your way through something you do not know.
I'd sooner assume the boost-agi would be to lower TP feed :^]
By Lili 2023-08-09 20:12:07
Valefor.Prothescar said: »I'd sooner assume the boost-agi would be to lower TP feed :^]
Fair. The point stands that FFXI has so many minor niche details to each fight that you can't really assume a choice by an experienced group is a mistake, or even just unoptimal, because you can't see the logic in it. There might very well be some really obscure reason for it!
By Pantafernando 2023-08-09 21:45:25
COR x4 GEO RDM.
RDM kiting, COR quickdrawing and random dealing
Bahamut.Mischief
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 56
By Bahamut.Mischief 2023-08-10 23:28:05
So...as people suspected, EFGH bosses and Aminon are still enraged as of the August Version Update. There doesn't seem to be any changes to any of them from what was noted previously.
HOWEVER, through Meteor testing of both versions, we've determined that Enraged Aminon currently does NOT have the 25% DT mentioned in the dev post. We've managed to get our kill speed to the point where we could still kill him even with the extra DT, but other groups may not be so fortunate. With that being said, for those who may want to upgrade to Stage 4 and attempt to farm it now...
Enraged Aminon strategy:Setup: RDM/DRK RUN/SCH BRD/NIN COR/DRG BST/DNC DRK/DRG. Ra'Kaznar Seal is highly recommended.
REMEMBER: Only those with a Stage 4 Prime weapon in their inventory can get Mesosiderite! It follows the same rules as the other -drites in this regard.
Pull quickly. RDM uses Saboteur to get the initial debuffs on (Frazzle III, Slow/Paralyze/Gravity II). Afterwards, start feeding Aminon TP. The idea is to get him into certain elemental states to get critical debuffs on:
Torrential Pain or Demonfire - BST uses Purulent Ooze to reduce his HP by 10% - Torrential Pain is easier to land under if the BST isn't max geared.
Blast of Reticence or Frozen Blood - RDM uses Saboteur and gets max duration Distract III on (drop Relic feet for Empyrean). If Blast of Reticence, the RUN or BRD can also attempt to land Armor Break/Shell Crusher. If Saboteur isn't up at this point, Random Deal it back.
Any Fetter-spawning TP move - the RUN, RDM, and DRK cast Tier I spells of the opposing element until red !! procs and the fetter is removed, unless you're stalling for time to get Distract or Ooze on.
After Distract and Purulent Ooze are both on, force Bane of Tartarus with elemental magic in minimal damage gear to get him back to dark/light-weak mode. Shortly after, he will use Incessant Void again - from this point on, never let him get another TP move off.
General Notes:
-Without Ra'Kaznar Seal, you will need a way to deal with several debuffs on the RUN, including Petrify from Ensepulcher and Doom from Impudence/Eternal Misery. You're also in much bigger trouble if he gets another TP move off later on.
-Incessant Void activates earrings which reduces magic and ranged damage taken by 90%, so melee damage is required. Hardmode AI change basically means you can never take these off. Dark and Light-based debuffs such as Absorbs are still effective, however.
-Aminon has similar Evasion to Albumen (1774 vs. Albumen's 1773), but without the benefit of Vorseals it's difficult to reach that amount of Accuracy. Either Distract III or SV Madrigals need to be on throughout the entire fight for damage to be reliable, but Distract will not land without either using Stymie or forcing Aminon to TP until he is in wind or ice mode.
-Aminon will always WS at 1000 TP regardless of HP%. Additionally, he gets 50 TP per basic attack even if the attack does 0, getting more if it does deal damage. Gravity kiting cannot avoid Aminon using TP, as he has Draw-in, but it can stop him gaining TP via attacking. Rely on Tactician's Roll for your TP.
-Enmity is generally not an issue in this fight unless the tank gets hit with Impudence or Eternal Misery, which reset hate. As long as the DRK uses High Jump, nobody else should be in any danger of capping hate.
-If Aminon uses a TP move, but it is NOT a fetter-spawning TP move, you can continue as normal as his resistances will not change. If it is a fetter TP move, you will need to force Bane of Tartarus for Absorb-TP to work again.
-While taking Aminon down like this, wings will flicker on and off occasionally with no real indication as to why. It doesn't seem to affect damage.
Job-specific Notes:
COR - Chaos/Tactician's Rolls. Unsure which one is faster to use Crooked on, but Chaos is safer. Use Savage Blade, and Quick Draws for TP/Dia enhancement. Jumps can also be used for TP as well if /DRG. Use Cutting Cards on the BRD after Soul Voice.
BRD - Clarion Call and Nitro after Bane is used - Honor/Madrigal/Madrigal/Minuet/Minuet. Put Sirvente and March on the RUN. Use Soul Voice after Distract wears off. Keep Dark Threnody II on - it lands without Nitro. Use Savage Blade when you get TP (Mordant Rime and Rudra's Storm both inflict Gravity, which may cause Aminon to build resistance).
RDM - Keep Dia III, Gravity II, Paralyze II, Poison II, and Frazzle III on at all times - save Saboteur for Gravity and Frazzle. Absorb-TP on cooldown. Keep Haste/Refresh on at least yourself, the DRK, and the RUN. Coordinate Impact usage with letting the DRK use Absorbs. I used Mercy Stroke, but another WS such as Black Halo may also work. After SV songs drop, use Saboteur/Stymie Distract III.
BST - TP Drainkiss on cooldown. Try to keep Box Step lv.5 up as much as possible. Our BST used Blitz - Calamity will likely also work. Use Sheep's Attack Bonus immediately after the first Bane, and reapply it if you ever get the chance to (Unleash is good for this).
DRK - Absorb-TP on cooldown. Other Absorbs land easily, so use as many as you want. Our DRK used Origin with a stage 4 Scythe, and is always by far the highest damage. Other WSes may or may not work. Keep up with High Jump usage to mitigate enmity.
RUN - Keep hate, and kite Aminon forever. Use Valiance on the RDM and DRK to help Absorb-TP cooldown. While Gravity II is on, stay out of his basic attack range at all times (but be sure to keep building hate). Use Gelus Rayke just before Stymie Distract to (maybe?) make it last longer.
Possible optimization / alternate strategy notes:
-If the BRD and COR both go /SMN and set up a Mew rotation, it may be possible for the BST to keep Corrosive Ooze's Defense Down on full-time. Alternatively, you could maybe swap the DRK for another DD - DRG may do well with Angon and Jumps.
-Keeping Aminon's TP somewhat high at times can give the RDM and DRK more TP to absorb speed up the fight, but be very careful you don't give him too much.
-BRD could potentially go /DNC to help keep up Box Step. Other support jobs may also work too, maybe even /GEO for Indi-Fury?
-Nothing in this strategy particularly requires RUN over PLD or another tank, you just need someone that can survive the initial attacks and then keep hate.
Things that need testing:
-How exactly is Mewing Lullaby nerfed on Aminon (if it is nerfed on the enraged version)? Is it similar to Gaol NM's, or worse?
-Does using Rudra's Storm actually cause Aminon to build resistance to Gravity? I know it does with other NMs, including Gaol. Just using Gravity II, the duration doesn't seem to change much even after repeated usage.
-Does Rayke actually help at all with landing debuffs or extending debuff duration? We always end up killing it before Stymie Distract wears off regardless.
-Is there ANY way to remove the Earrings without forcing Bane of Tartarus?
Credit to long_horned on Twitter/X for a lot of the information regarding resistances, fetters, and Aminon's Evasion.
As of writing this, we're 2/4 on Mesosiderite - low sample size, but it might just be a flat 50% rate. Good luck!
Carbuncle.Papesse
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 443
By Carbuncle.Papesse 2023-08-11 01:31:35
-How exactly is Mewing Lullaby nerfed on Aminon (if it is nerfed on the enraged version)? Is it similar to Gaol NM's, or worse? For the normal version it is the same nerf as in Odyssey apparently.
https://twitter.com/long_horned/status/1683687432137641984
By SimonSes 2023-08-11 05:35:40
So...as people suspected, EFGH bosses and Aminon are still enraged as of the August Version Update. There doesn't seem to be any changes to any of them from what was noted previously.
HOWEVER, through Meteor testing of both versions, we've determined that Enraged Aminon currently does NOT have the 25% DT mentioned in the dev post. We've managed to get our kill speed to the point where we could still kill him even with the extra DT, but other groups may not be so fortunate. With that being said, for those who may want to upgrade to Stage 4 and attempt to farm it now...
Enraged Aminon strategy:Setup: RDM/DRK RUN/SCH BRD/NIN COR/DRG BST/DNC DRK/DRG. Ra'Kaznar Seal is highly recommended.
REMEMBER: Only those with a Stage 4 Prime weapon in their inventory can get Mesosiderite! It follows the same rules as the other -drites in this regard.
Pull quickly. RDM uses Saboteur to get the initial debuffs on (Frazzle III, Slow/Paralyze/Gravity II). Afterwards, start feeding Aminon TP. The idea is to get him into certain elemental states to get critical debuffs on:
Torrential Pain or Demonfire - BST uses Purulent Ooze to reduce his HP by 10% - Torrential Pain is easier to land under if the BST isn't max geared.
Blast of Reticence or Frozen Blood - RDM uses Saboteur and gets max duration Distract III on (drop Relic feet for Empyrean). If Blast of Reticence, the RUN or BRD can also attempt to land Armor Break/Shell Crusher. If Saboteur isn't up at this point, Random Deal it back.
Any Fetter-spawning TP move - the RUN, RDM, and DRK cast Tier I spells of the opposing element until red !! procs and the fetter is removed, unless you're stalling for time to get Distract or Ooze on.
After Distract and Purulent Ooze are both on, force Bane of Tartarus with elemental magic in minimal damage gear to get him back to dark/light-weak mode. Shortly after, he will use Incessant Void again - from this point on, never let him get another TP move off.
General Notes:
-Without Ra'Kaznar Seal, you will need a way to deal with several debuffs on the RUN, including Petrify from Ensepulcher and Doom from Impudence/Eternal Misery. You're also in much bigger trouble if he gets another TP move off later on.
-Incessant Void activates earrings which reduces magic and ranged damage taken by 90%, so melee damage is required. Hardmode AI change basically means you can never take these off. Dark and Light-based debuffs such as Absorbs are still effective, however.
-Aminon has similar Evasion to Albumen (1774 vs. Albumen's 1773), but without the benefit of Vorseals it's difficult to reach that amount of Accuracy. Either Distract III or SV Madrigals need to be on throughout the entire fight for damage to be reliable, but Distract will not land without either using Stymie or forcing Aminon to TP until he is in wind or ice mode.
-Aminon will always WS at 1000 TP regardless of HP%. Additionally, he gets 50 TP per basic attack even if the attack does 0, getting more if it does deal damage. Gravity kiting cannot avoid Aminon using TP, as he has Draw-in, but it can stop him gaining TP via attacking. Rely on Tactician's Roll for your TP.
-Enmity is generally not an issue in this fight unless the tank gets hit with Impudence or Eternal Misery, which reset hate. As long as the DRK uses High Jump, nobody else should be in any danger of capping hate.
-If Aminon uses a TP move, but it is NOT a fetter-spawning TP move, you can continue as normal as his resistances will not change. If it is a fetter TP move, you will need to force Bane of Tartarus for Absorb-TP to work again.
-While taking Aminon down like this, wings will flicker on and off occasionally with no real indication as to why. It doesn't seem to affect damage.
Job-specific Notes:
COR - Chaos/Tactician's Rolls. Unsure which one is faster to use Crooked on, but Chaos is safer. Use Savage Blade, and Quick Draws for TP/Dia enhancement. Jumps can also be used for TP as well if /DRG. Use Cutting Cards on the BRD after Soul Voice.
BRD - Clarion Call and Nitro after Bane is used - Honor/Madrigal/Madrigal/Minuet/Minuet. Put Sirvente and March on the RUN. Use Soul Voice after Distract wears off. Keep Dark Threnody II on - it lands without Nitro. Use Savage Blade when you get TP (Mordant Rime and Rudra's Storm both inflict Gravity, which may cause Aminon to build resistance).
RDM - Keep Dia III, Gravity II, Paralyze II, Poison II, and Frazzle III on at all times - save Saboteur for Gravity and Frazzle. Absorb-TP on cooldown. Keep Haste/Refresh on at least yourself, the DRK, and the RUN. Coordinate Impact usage with letting the DRK use Absorbs. I used Mercy Stroke, but another WS such as Black Halo may also work. After SV songs drop, use Saboteur/Stymie Distract III.
BST - TP Drainkiss on cooldown. Try to keep Box Step lv.5 up as much as possible. Our BST used Blitz - Calamity will likely also work. Use Sheep's Attack Bonus immediately after the first Bane, and reapply it if you ever get the chance to (Unleash is good for this).
DRK - Absorb-TP on cooldown. Other Absorbs land easily, so use as many as you want. Our DRK used Origin with a stage 4 Scythe, and is always by far the highest damage. Other WSes may or may not work. Keep up with High Jump usage to mitigate enmity.
RUN - Keep hate, and kite Aminon forever. Use Valiance on the RDM and DRK to help Absorb-TP cooldown. While Gravity II is on, stay out of his basic attack range at all times (but be sure to keep building hate). Use Gelus Rayke just before Stymie Distract to (maybe?) make it last longer.
Possible optimization / alternate strategy notes:
-If the BRD and COR both go /SMN and set up a Mew rotation, it may be possible for the BST to keep Corrosive Ooze's Defense Down on full-time. Alternatively, you could maybe swap the DRK for another DD - DRG may do well with Angon and Jumps.
-Keeping Aminon's TP somewhat high at times can give the RDM and DRK more TP to absorb speed up the fight, but be very careful you don't give him too much.
-BRD could potentially go /DNC to help keep up Box Step. Other support jobs may also work too, maybe even /GEO for Indi-Fury?
-Nothing in this strategy particularly requires RUN over PLD or another tank, you just need someone that can survive the initial attacks and then keep hate.
Things that need testing:
-How exactly is Mewing Lullaby nerfed on Aminon (if it is nerfed on the enraged version)? Is it similar to Gaol NM's, or worse?
-Does using Rudra's Storm actually cause Aminon to build resistance to Gravity? I know it does with other NMs, including Gaol. Just using Gravity II, the duration doesn't seem to change much even after repeated usage.
-Does Rayke actually help at all with landing debuffs or extending debuff duration? We always end up killing it before Stymie Distract wears off regardless.
-Is there ANY way to remove the Earrings without forcing Bane of Tartarus?
Credit to long_horned on Twitter/X for a lot of the information regarding resistances, fetters, and Aminon's Evasion.
As of writing this, we're 2/4 on Mesosiderite - low sample size, but it might just be a flat 50% rate. Good luck!
Thx for posting this!
About exclusivity, I think BST is not required here. Without Aymur (he was using Prime for Blitz) TP drainkiss below 1000TP (on target) wasnt absorbing much TP. Probably only like 300-500 at most, every 30 sec. Could probably just use GEO/DRK for example or another DRK (if you dont have BST).
I kinda wish there was a way to fit Prime DNC here somehow. It would have amazing dps here. Most of the WSs would be with Climactic, while also DNC can get lots of TP with reverse flourish, so frequency would also be higher and on top of that and DNC would add another -10% def down from higher box step. I don't see the room for it sadly though. Unless like Mischief suggested instead of DRK assuming COR and BRD going /SMN would be enough.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2023-08-11 06:28:32
You guys are going to be super disappointed when you find out there's nothing particularly special about the "secret" It's kinda sop.
Enraged Aminon strategy
Generic Gravity Kite Sometimes I'm surprised more battles aren't done this way. Avoid all damage while still holding enmity and walking away. Why bother tanking it when you can do that and skip the need for the healer altogether.
"But there's so much more to it than that!!!111!ONE"
Yeah, no
EDIT: Most of the information in this thread is now outdated, as the EFGH boss enrages have been removed and Aminon is now a toggle. I'm leaving it up so people can see what happened, though.
So, I posted yesterday in the Sortie main thread about how some of the basement bosses had changed AI after acquiring a Stage 4 Prime Weapon. We went in again tonight to test the rest of them, and...well...this is bad. It's bad enough that I felt it justified its own thread so more people can see it.
TL;DR Do not upgrade your Stage 4 Prime Weapon until you are finished with acquiring Gallimaufry, or be prepared to tank the Galli rates for you and any group you join as soon as you get it.
First off, a few commonalities - despite the basement bosses getting harder, the rewards are completely unchanged. 10k Gallimaufry per boss, no guaranteed Case+1, no Mesosiderite (this is probably luck based). Second, actually equipping the Prime Weapon is irrelevant, the bosses are harder if anyone has the Stage 4 anywhere in their inventory. It might be the case that it only looks at the person entering Sortie to determine the AI (both times our party leader had a Stage 4), but that's unlikely. Finally, the base stats of each enemy seem unchanged, it's only their AI that gets altered.
Now, on to the specific bosses. We have recordings of all of the new enrage mechanics, in case anyone's skeptical about all of this. There may be other changes, but these are the ones we've seen. This is all mage strategy, too, so YMMV if you use melee strategy.
EDIT 7/15: Updated information on new mechanics based on more runs.
Dhartok - Uses Cesspool at somewhere between 50-65% HP. No other changes.
Gartell - Enters double hands mode at 65~66% and 30~33% HP, and stays in it for about 3 minutes each time. Bind works from a RDM fairly easily in this mode, but all damage gets tanked and his damage output skyrockets, so it's basically a forced staring contest eating your time while waiting. Gravity seems to work once, then resists badly. We don't know how to break double hands mode other than waiting.
Triboulex - Uses Setting the Stage at around 75% HP, and more times at lower %s. You can still avoid Setting the Stage going off by kiting him. There might be a Skillchain mechanic that also triggers it based off of previous runs, but it's consistently gone off at 75% HP so save yourself the trouble and just Gravity kite him.
Aita - Uses Vivisection at around 65~66% HP, and again at around 32~33% HP. These uses reset the 3 minute timer. There seems to be a mechanic to lower its damage based on repeatedly hitting him with the element he is weak to, but we don't fully understand it yet.
And last, and certainly worst...
Aminon - 10 seconds after using Bane of Tartarus, Aminon will now instantly use Incessant Void again, regardless of TP. After upgrading to Stage 4, the Absorb-TP strategy is IMPOSSIBLE. Anyone who tried to fight this thing pre-Absorb strategy knows that it's an absolute disaster of a fight, so Aminon basically doesn't exist for our group anymore.
I'm honestly speechless. The fact that the bosses are this much worse for bullshit reasons, there's seemingly no way to opt out of it after upgrading a weapon, there are no extra rewards beyond a worthless -drite we haven't even seen yet, and there was ZERO indication that this would happen prior to upgrading?! There wasn't even a chat message or any visual indication the bosses are buffed until our group got blindsided by Vivisection at 70%!
The worst part, though? Not everyone in our group even HAS a Stage 4 Prime Weapon! So, unless it only counts the person who enters the group (which, in that case...why?!), that means that if you upgrade to Stage 4, you're destroying the Gallimaufry potential of ANY group you join! Truly, this is one of the most severe case of punishing the player for upgrading an item I've ever seen.
That's why I'm making this a separate topic I guess - making sure as many people see this as possible. Our group was the first to upgrade to Stage 4, and we're paying the price for it now. Spread the word: either keep your Prime Weapons at Stage 3 (and thus be unable to use their WS outside of Sortie), or tank your Gallimaufry rate. What a fun choice that is......
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