Felgarr said: »
Prime Shields too, should grant "Shield Toss" while we're at it.
Ionoman.
Stage 4 Prime Weapon's Effect On Sortie
Stage 4 Prime Weapon's effect on Sortie
Felgarr said: »
I agree with you that there should be a bit more job-specific incentive for each weapon.
If anything making such a large number of legendary weapons required so that you can perform your job is obnoxious, to say the least.
Boosting the job in unique ways that focus on their core abilities is cool, offering new ways to play them or whatever you want.
Binding important spells/jas/stuff behind the gate of a Legendary Weapon instead is all but cool in a MMO.
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Considering the grind for Prime Weapons - the reward should be better for mages.
The 1 handed weapons are disappointing too. Maru Kala is on par with victory smite. Monk already has Raging/Howling/Tornado/Dragon/Smite so there's little incentive to build a Varga. Dagda is no different than judgment so the prime club is nothing special. Ruthless stroke is just rudra's storm with different skillchain properties, which isn't that relevant most of the time so it's basically just a Twashtar clone. Blitz doesn't stand tall over mistral axe or calamity so it's the same deal there. And of course we already know how imperator stacks up against savage blade. Same....freaking...deal!
There is kind of an issue with the prime weaponskills. For whatever reason s-e decided the 2 handed weaponskills should all be better than the rest. The scythe, the great sword, the great axe, and the great katana are all in a different tier than the other weapons. And the shield is also BiS, while the horn provides some very desirable and unique effects for bard. But as far as weapons go, if it isn't 2 handed it isn't much different from existing options. Sarv gets honorable mention for being nutty, but there's kind of a lack of content for bow ranger and it has no enmity suppression, plus they already do the k club thing so...
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Asura.Melliny said: »
Ruthless stroke is just rudra's storm with different skillchain properties, which isn't that relevant most of the time so it's basically just a Twashtar clone. Blitz doesn't stand tall over mistral axe or calamity so it's the same deal there.
I think you are underrating those weapons a little.
Skillchain properties on Ruthless is actually a VERY huge deal for at least DNC. Skillchains are massive part of DNC's damage especially solo, but also in group. It's even better that you can do fusion>light, which is in general much better than fragmentation>light. Wrong skillchains are also sometimes a problem (Sortie). We also has a WS wall, so it's good to use different WS. Also you need to remember, that RDM can also use Mpu Gandring and considering TP bonus it's by far the strongest piercing option for RDM and that's actually very relevant. Lastly Ruthless seems to be slightly stronger than Rudra, so it's still highest raw WS damage. It might not be as big damage upgrade as some 2h Primes, but it's definitely not disappointment.
Im pretty sure Blitz is significantly stronger than Mistral and Calamity.
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Asura.Sechs said: »
If anything making such a large number of legendary weapons required so that you can perform your job is obnoxious, to say the least.
That's the rub, isn't it? Either SE makes the legendary equipment desirable to use, such as BRDs gear and other players, not playing the job, consider it a requirement. Or SE makes the legendary equipment a copy paste and it is very optional. The 3rd option is SE makes legendary equipment that has very little reason to ever be made, like most support\mage options.
BRD literally lives or dies whether it has more drugs than the other dealers. It doesn't have anything else. If you play BRD regularly, you don't get a real choice for your first Prime Weapon. And it is usable only on BRD, so you're going to get stuck playing it even more than you normally would because it's your best geared job. Hurray~
Compare that to SCH where you actually get a bump to your numbers with AM, can whack something with a decent physical WS if you need with Fusion to go with all the Savage Blades, and you can roll it into a BLM or SMN if you happen to like things other than SCH. The only real complaint I would have on it is that you can't use the WS from the same range as Mistral Axe.
Compare that to SCH where you actually get a bump to your numbers with AM, can whack something with a decent physical WS if you need with Fusion to go with all the Savage Blades, and you can roll it into a BLM or SMN if you happen to like things other than SCH. The only real complaint I would have on it is that you can't use the WS from the same range as Mistral Axe.
Asura.Eiryl said: »
"hard mode" made no difference. It just meant you lost an extra 30 seconds running away from 1 extra tp move.
They just wanted to complain about it.
(You got nothing extra from it, so it's a valid complaint, but that's all, just a complaint. It wasn't actually "harder")
They just wanted to complain about it.
(You got nothing extra from it, so it's a valid complaint, but that's all, just a complaint. It wasn't actually "harder")
Not wholly accurate. Gartell added 6 minutes to the fight while you stood around watching paint dry, and Aita had to be reset into an elemental phase after each vivisection. It's not that these were so much harder than normal, it's more that they added a huge, unnecessary delay to time-limited content.
FWIW we just hulk smashed straight through Gartell's double hands and killed it during HM
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
FWIW we just hulk smashed straight through Gartell's double hands and killed it during HM
Yeah, melee could get around the Gartell issue, but I imagine that Aita was a bit harder to deal with on melee?
1/13 on Mesosiderite with TH4. We were at 2.5m galli when we started farming HQ Aminon and are now at over 4m. This is depressing.
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Carbuncle.Papesse said: »
1/13 on Mesosiderite with TH4. We were at 2.5m galli when we started farming HQ Aminon and are now at over 4m. This is depressing.
Not looking forward to that grind at all...
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Nevermind, it's pretty close.
drakefs said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
If anything making such a large number of legendary weapons required so that you can perform your job is obnoxious, to say the least.
That's the rub, isn't it? Either SE makes the legendary equipment desirable to use, such as BRDs gear and other players, not playing the job, consider it a requirement. Or SE makes the legendary equipment a copy paste and it is very optional. The 3rd option is SE makes legendary equipment that has very little reason to ever be made, like most support\mage options.
The extra songs of Dura should not of been tied to a REMA and instead part of JP's or JSE, instead Dura should of just had insane +duration or +accuracy. Other then that, Bard is just so one dimensional, but ridiculously good in that dimension. It's either "absolutely mandatory full stop" or "meh pass", very little in between.
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I played with War & Drg and both of them having a Prime stage 4 and the WAR had GS and said he's not condifent on using it in Ody C and damage is not stable, and The Drg was japanese and could'nt ask him about he's Prime poleram, however both of them were using Savage Blade as usual. I guess Primes are just overhyped, and not for everyone specially Stage 5.
Lol damage is not stable on a 1 hit that scales linearly to 3k?
vs
throw it asap because you've already hit 2k effective TP and it's overpowered Savage Blade
On mobs that die to 1 Savage Blade...*** Genius level Math going on over here.
vs
throw it asap because you've already hit 2k effective TP and it's overpowered Savage Blade
On mobs that die to 1 Savage Blade...*** Genius level Math going on over here.
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Dubaiii said: »
I played with War & Drg and both of them having a Prime stage 4 and the WAR had GS and said he's not condifent on using it in Ody C and damage is not stable, and The Drg was japanese and could'nt ask him about he's Prime poleram, however both of them were using Savage Blade as usual. I guess Primes are just overhyped, and not for everyone specially Stage 5.
They are not overhyped. That guy on WAR doesn't understand what scaling with TP or slashing resist means if he said that damage is not stable. It's 1 hit WS, so the damage will be very stable at the same TP. Because of Fencer and other TP bonus Savage Blade is always at 2200+ TP and that's why it feels like it's damage is more consistent, if you just spam both. With Prime GS you simply need to get used to what damage it does at 1000/1500/2000/2500/3000 TP and use it at TP threshold, that let you one shot mobs in Ody C. Basically git gud.
Now Polearm simply has way more piercing resist mobs in Ocy C, but also DRG can have 78.75% haste with single hand Naegling and can also have 80% delay reduction with just 15%DW from /dnc and use Kraken in sub hand, which makes Naegling just stupidly strong, but that doesn't make Prime polearm weak, it just has off the charts competition.
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My point was that Primes will not outshine other weapon in all situations and make them obsolete. Like a Sam with Doji will hit 99999 with not much effort and preparations in ody c.
In Sheol C you mean? With Hybrids I assume.
Sure that's a thing, on the relevant targets.
There's plenty of them but you can still get unlucky runs though xD
Sure that's a thing, on the relevant targets.
There's plenty of them but you can still get unlucky runs though xD
Dubaiii said: »
My point was that Primes will not out shine other weapon in all situations and I don't want to have to make one. So I'll keep making dishonest conclusions to normalize not having one or I'm just ignorant of how Math works past basic computations.
Fixed for honesty.
No one cares if you don't have one. Unless you're a smart DD, you won't know when to use one properly.
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Yes it is in Ody C for sure, Also I'm making Great sword near Stage 4, however I am sharing my experience of people that I played with having Stage 4 in Ody c .
Also sheol C is a bad example of content to compare weapons with. Mostly trash mobs with various physical resistances, over killing and so forth.
In addition, stage 4 GKT will also hit 99k with jinpu or other hybrids. Hint - it's the WS and whether the mob is weak to it not the weapon.
In addition, stage 4 GKT will also hit 99k with jinpu or other hybrids. Hint - it's the WS and whether the mob is weak to it not the weapon.
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Dodik said: »
Also sheol C is a bad example of content to compare weapons with. Mostly trash mobs with various physical resistances, over killing and so forth.
In addition, stage 4 GKT will also hit 99k with jinpu or other hybrids. Hint - it's the WS and whether the mob is weak to it not the weapon.
In addition, stage 4 GKT will also hit 99k with jinpu or other hybrids. Hint - it's the WS and whether the mob is weak to it not the weapon.
Yeah but is it better to use prime katana over doji for hybrid ws, I would like someone to share he's experience with their Prime in actual content, but sadly only 2hander primes are worth testing.
In my experience with stage 4 GKT, it is by far stronger when using physical WS (Mumei vs Fudo). Eg content you'd be doing this on, most of the HELMs, most of Sortie, all non-hybrid weak mobs anywhere else, dyna sheol etc. There is also a good 5 step light that starts with mumei-mumei so good even if you don't want darkness. On some mobs will need to alternate mumei-fudo to avoid certain SCs. Fudo with prime gkt is a bit weaker than masa's max, but not by much.
For hybrids specifically prime weapon seems more consistent especially if mobs are a bit high on the magic evasion front due to its higher magic accuracy skill. Plus the aftermath helps.
I tend to just keep prime GKT on when doing jinpu/hybrids now even in sheol A/B/C for two reasons - 1) can still hit 99k at 1500 or so TP which is easy to get on Sam and 2) can keep prime aftermath on and not lose TP changing weapons when switching back to physical WS.
YMMV.
For hybrids specifically prime weapon seems more consistent especially if mobs are a bit high on the magic evasion front due to its higher magic accuracy skill. Plus the aftermath helps.
I tend to just keep prime GKT on when doing jinpu/hybrids now even in sheol A/B/C for two reasons - 1) can still hit 99k at 1500 or so TP which is easy to get on Sam and 2) can keep prime aftermath on and not lose TP changing weapons when switching back to physical WS.
YMMV.
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I took stage 4 gkatana to wave 3 dyna and was very satisfied it was pulling very impressive numbers without being insanely overbuffed. It was way better then r15 masa in same situation.
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yeah these kind of testing and stories am looking forward to hear :D , Thank you for sharing your experiences that outside of sortie.
You gotta be careful with anecdotal accounts of damage. What is WAY better? The math doesn't support crazy bumps in DPS at stage 4.
Main bonus for most are the WS properties.
Main bonus for most are the WS properties.
Is it possible that some of the weaponskills have ratio bonuses that weren't found in ftp/mod testing because they were all done on trivial enemies?
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SimonSes said: »
Dubaiii said: »
I played with War & Drg and both of them having a Prime stage 4 and the WAR had GS and said he's not condifent on using it in Ody C and damage is not stable, and The Drg was japanese and could'nt ask him about he's Prime poleram, however both of them were using Savage Blade as usual. I guess Primes are just overhyped, and not for everyone specially Stage 5.
They are not overhyped. That guy on WAR doesn't understand what scaling with TP or slashing resist means if he said that damage is not stable. It's 1 hit WS, so the damage will be very stable at the same TP. Because of Fencer and other TP bonus Savage Blade is always at 2200+ TP and that's why it feels like it's damage is more consistent, if you just spam both. With Prime GS you simply need to get used to what damage it does at 1000/1500/2000/2500/3000 TP and use it at TP threshold, that let you one shot mobs in Ody C. Basically git gud.
Now Polearm simply has way more piercing resist mobs in Ocy C, but also DRG can have 78.75% haste with single hand Naegling and can also have 80% delay reduction with just 15%DW from /dnc and use Kraken in sub hand, which makes Naegling just stupidly strong, but that doesn't make Prime polearm weak, it just has off the charts competition.
I ran with a Japanese player yesterday who had the great axe in Odyssey C. They were pretty dang beastly, that said, I didn't see a single capped Disaster. Still it was consistently doing damage in 60k range. It certainly was novel.
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there is more to factor in than just the WSdmg, in particular for the 2handers and ranged weapons. Even the stage 4 ODD is serious business, and cannot be ignored in its effect on an overall parse.
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Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »
there is more to factor in than just the WSdmg, in particular for the 2handers and ranged weapons. Even the stage 4 ODD is serious business, and cannot be ignored in its effect on an overall parse.
Agreed, bow also had the most to gain. The other weapons had more competitive REMAs most of which had a melee phase advantage already.
Do we have a ODD% yet? Bow is a great test weapon for the proc rate.
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