Insurgency Possibly Bugged Or Buffed

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Insurgency possibly bugged or buffed
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 Asura.Mims
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By Asura.Mims 2018-09-18 11:22:43
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Since the September update, Insurgency seems to be doing higher damage for me.
I try to do Salvage daily on Drk/Rdm, and Arrapago Remnants Khimaira bosses have become my point of WS and gear comparison, because the damage has been so consistent day to day.

I've been doing some testing, and it appears to come down to the additional hits.
Prior to the update, Insurgency has been landing (At 3000 TP) for about 27k initial hit, and 2.5k per additional hit landed.
After the update, the initial hit seems to still be 27k, but the addional hits appear to be landing for about 4.2k apiece.
It doesnt appear to be an issue with Fotia belt/gorget, I tested vs Aura weapons in Sky and the additional hits were landing that high both with and without Fotia.

Here's my Insurgency set:
ItemSet 360043

So far the only thing that makes sense is that WSD% may be applying to all hits of Insurgency now. Can anyone else corroborate this? I know its not an issue of Arcane Circle, Souleater, or Scarlet Delerium, so those can be ruled out. My data on initial hit vs additional hits has been from watching TP return, taking data only from hits where either only the initial hit lands, or the first hit missing and generating TP return numbers in the 10-40 range.
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 Ragnarok.Casey
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By Ragnarok.Casey 2018-09-18 12:26:14
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inb4 spaghetti code broke fixed WSD for all named REMA ws that got augs this last patch
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2018-09-18 14:16:30
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Not noticed it myself. Would be pretty sweet if SE ninja buffed it though.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-09-18 14:27:33
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If WSD is fixed to finally work on *all hits* of Multihit WS, that would be huge...ly broken.
 Leviathan.Nitenichi
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By Leviathan.Nitenichi 2018-09-18 15:53:05
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Honestly it's the same thing I said about Kaiten. There is something that has happened. I will most certainly do some testing on Insurgency shortly.
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By clearlyamule 2018-09-18 17:18:10
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fotia shouldn't apply to additional hits except in ws with replicating ftps. not big on where drk is right now but might not be the best for insurgency because of that.

Anyways I count 62% wsd (up to 8 more depending on jps) and 4.2k is 68% more than 2.5k so that does like a decent theory right now. Might as well take off the wsd and to test.
 Asura.Biglovin
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By Asura.Biglovin 2018-09-18 17:22:06
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
If WSD is fixed to finally work on *all hits* of Multihit WS, that would be huge...ly broken.

Time to update the Resolution sets if so.
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By Ruaumoko 2018-09-19 04:32:25
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ItemSet 352320

Yeah, they've done something to Insurgency. This was with Dia III from King of Hearts, Chaos Roll from Qultada and Last Resort/Endark II. From what I can tell, the WSD is transferring across the subsequent hits.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Senaki
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By Quetzalcoatl.Senaki 2018-09-19 08:03:55
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Oh wow, if WSD does indeed apply across all hits then it might be a seriously fix for "op smn". I seriously hope it applies to all jobs. I'll try testing this over the weekend when I get a chance. Please, please, please, no one report this to SE.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-09-19 08:08:26
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I've never used insurgency often so wasn't sure what my he damage was. Would be interesting if other multi hit WS got the same treatment.
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By Nariont 2018-09-19 08:25:29
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Might be worth testing king's justice/upheaval and something like ctoss reaper or raging fists to see if its just the buffed ws or ws in general
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-09-19 09:24:10
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I can check Raging Fists when I get home. My numbers have always been laughable, since no Godhands, but I should be able to almost immediately spot an increase in damage, since my numbers have always been very underwhelming and just a tip above shijin. If this is a ninja fix, would love to see all the ws sets reworked.

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By SimonSes 2018-09-19 10:30:03
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Ok so I didnt want to make eyeballing test and went really boring and long way to check it, but the result is pretty straight forward...

I was doing Entropy with 56% WSD in gear on mobs outside of Bastok.
To make sure that WSD works for 2nd hit I needed a miss on first hit and see if 2nd hit will do the same damage which would imply also getting WSD bonus.

Those are damage for some of my first hit Entropy

Damage on first hit was around 3400-3600

Finally after I almsot fall asleep, I got a miss on first hit and... the damage was 3544 so with 99% certainty (my hit only prove 2nd hit got WSD bonus not 3rd and following ones, but it's safe to assume they all get it) I can confirm that WSD works fall all hits of the Weaponskill. Now it would be good to confirm if they fix/broke it only for REMA WSs or all of them (Like for example Raging Fists would be important one).

Screenshot with missed first hit:
 Asura.Mims
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By Asura.Mims 2018-09-19 10:33:59
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Heres a 51K Insurgency from Salvage the other day. Only buffs were Last Resort, Dia II, and Absorb STR/DEX/INT. 206 TP return on Drk/Rdm (Gear in OP post) which indicates a quadruple attack proc.

For reference, my previous best prior to the update was 45,983, with the same buffs plus Arcane Circle. Factoring in a 17% bonus from AC that would have been a 39K insurgency without Arcane Circle, prior to the update.
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By Staleyx 2018-09-19 10:48:04
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Shall we delete this thread now?
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By SimonSes 2018-09-19 10:49:31
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Staleyx said: »
Shall we delete this thread now?

So SE wont notice and fix it? :D
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By DirectX 2018-09-19 11:27:43
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5k extra damage at max damage, so what? Not going to break the game if they don't patch it.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-09-19 11:29:53
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People pay 500m for 5k extra damage on a ws. That's very gamebreaking to them.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-09-19 11:30:51
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*rolls eyes*
 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2018-09-19 11:34:24
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How many hits is insurgency. Could test on some kind of ninja mob (possibly tonberry in ugly temple) to get shadows to absorb the first 3 hits? to see about WSD on all hits?
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-09-19 11:45:27
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I don't know if you can make the bold statement now that it applies to all hits after testing it working on the second hit, once...
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-09-19 11:52:00
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Looks pretty straight forward as per the first couple posts.
Ruaumoko said: »
Yeah, they've done something to Insurgency. This was with Dia III from King of Hearts, Chaos Roll from Qultada and Last Resort/Endark II. From what I can tell, the WSD is transferring across the subsequent hits.

if you're doing an extra 10k then the multihits are improved in some way.

Stack up all the WSD you can find and raging fists/smite/eviscerate/exenterate all the things see what happens.

Couple in your standard set, then couple in full wsd, should be an obvious change.
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By mhomho 2018-09-19 11:56:31
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.. Did Metsu just get a buff? LUNATONE
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By SimonSes 2018-09-19 11:58:46
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DirectX said: »
5k extra damage at max damage, so what? Not going to break the game if they don't patch it.

Are you kidding me? :D

If this works for all WSs then:
It's around 20%+ boost to Raging Fists
It's 22-30% boost to Upheaval

and that's without even any optimization. Just using their regular WS sets, but applying wsd to all hits instead of first.

Now if you go and optimize WS sets for Entropy or Resolution, you will see 40-60%+ boost to those WSes. I hope I don't need to explain how huge is 50% damage boost to Resolution.
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By SimonSes 2018-09-19 12:00:07
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Looks pretty straight forward as per the first couple posts.
Ruaumoko said: »
Yeah, they've done something to Insurgency. This was with Dia III from King of Hearts, Chaos Roll from Qultada and Last Resort/Endark II. From what I can tell, the WSD is transferring across the subsequent hits.

if you're doing an extra 10k then the multihits are improved in some way.

Stack up all the WSD you can find and raging fists/smite/eviscerate/exenterate all the things see what happens.

Couple in your standard set, then couple in full wsd, should be an obvious change.

Have you missed my test? WSD works for all the hits, not just first. It's pretty clear.
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By SimonSes 2018-09-19 12:04:49
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I don't know if you can make the bold statement now that it applies to all hits after testing it working on the second hit, once...

In theory, you are right, but be my guest and check if it also works on 3rd and 4th etc. I'm sure it does work, but since you need to know it for sure, go and test it.

Also it doesn't matter if I only did the same damage once on 2nd hit. If you think logically one sample is enough to prove it for 2nd hit, you don't need more, because all other factors are interfering. So yeah, if you want to be sure and my test + what OP eyeballing with Insurgency don't convince you.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-09-19 12:07:20
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SimonSes said: »
Asura.Eiryl said: »
Looks pretty straight forward as per the first couple posts.
Ruaumoko said: »
Yeah, they've done something to Insurgency. This was with Dia III from King of Hearts, Chaos Roll from Qultada and Last Resort/Endark II. From what I can tell, the WSD is transferring across the subsequent hits.

if you're doing an extra 10k then the multihits are improved in some way.

Stack up all the WSD you can find and raging fists/smite/eviscerate/exenterate all the things see what happens.

Couple in your standard set, then couple in full wsd, should be an obvious change.

Have you missed my test? WSD works for all the hits, not just first. It's pretty clear.

I said;
Quote:
Looks pretty straight forward as per the first couple posts. multihits are improved in some way. (on insurgency)

But what I said after that was ;
Quote:
test raging fists/smite/eviscerate/exenterate
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By SimonSes 2018-09-19 12:09:26
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Ups Eiryl, I missed the part above the quote, sorry :D
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-09-19 12:10:00
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I'm not totally skeptical, just think it would be good to test a few different WS first before saying things like this:

SimonSes said: »
Guys, huge news. WSD seems to be workign for all hits of the weaponskill. That's a huge boost to Pyrrhic Kleos.

Not in denial or anything, and I'm at work so can't test it. Would be great if it did, Godhand users got a huge buff. Things like Stardiver/Reso got insanely better.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-09-19 12:11:46
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I just want to see someone do RF/VS/AS in their normal set, then in a 50% WSD set.

Doesn't really matter if every other ws got better, they were already good. Show dat MNK. (and pup pummels~)
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