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[Dev] Dynamis Currency Icon Update
 Leviathan.Kincard
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1442
By Leviathan.Kincard 2012-09-21 13:11:50
Quote: First I didn't say it shouldn't be done, just that in the end I don't think it will really help. If they wanna do it, go for it. But when people make that mistake they largely do it because they aren't paying enough attention to what they're doing (user error not game error).
Secondly the auction house thing was tongue in cheek, but in all honesty if you added 5 more layers of checks at the auction house you'd get people who were so irritated by the extra layers that they would just burn through them to finish faster (and continue to make the mistake).
It was a statement only partially directed at you, really. I think everyone knows that the buyer of course takes a good portion of the blame for not paying attention. It's like those "don't drink and drive" ads they have plastered everywhere- obviously if someone's irresponsible/stupid it'll still happen, but the whole point is that if something simple can be done to reduce it, then do it (especially when it's something as simple as adding a whitebox, I find it absolutely hilarious that people think that extra 10 minutes would've been used to give us something more substantial). I realize it was sarcastic, but I'm not sure how that Auction House example is even comparable given that this is a change that has basically 0 impact on anyone other than the scammers and the buyers.
Any extra visual cue will help out here, IMO. Actually, think about how a bazaar is viewed- if you're looking at the price, the first icon that catches your eye is actually the tiny one (at least that's how it is for me). The whitebox/bluebox/yellowbox is more apparent on the tiny icon than a off-tint of a item with essentially the same art. I've never worked on a relic before, but I can understand the rush of wanting to snatch a good offer really quickly given that I've had to race against others to grab 100k plates off bazaars before.
By Lye 2012-09-21 13:15:26
I made the mistake before into rushing byne bills. In this current market, there are a lot of buyers for currency these days.
I don't see why it's anything bad to change the icons of the currency. I guess the people scamming are complaining because their sole source of income is to cheat people of their gil. This all boils down to morals and ethics. And the general public doesn't really care if you did/didn't succeed into someone buying your items.
We get the point people are dumb sometimes and no one's made a mistake before of overbidding. Don't condone the developers trying to help the greater good and make the game more enjoyable for everyone else. Not to pick on words here but I don't see how clearly placing an item at an obviously inflated price is "cheating" someone out of their gil. Sure you're playing on their carelessness, and even trying to trick them into thinking they are buying something they aren't. But in the end, the game doesn't let you sell a single piece with a 100 sticker on it. You aren't misrepresenting anything, the game doesn't let you do that.
This isn't about whether or not "X is cheating."
It's about trying to prevent a lamentable outcome and this MAY accomplish that.
To say it's silly because it will still happen is to say you shouldn't wear reflective clothing while cycling at night because accidents still happen.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 102
By Asura.Catsidhe 2012-09-21 13:16:31
Bahamut.Boogerballs said: »Its not about feeling superior. Its about me with the ability to read
But lacking the ability to make a sentence.
For the record: Why do you think changing icons and adding new content cannot BOTH be done? It's as if you believe they're mutually exclusive....
Ha, I was thinking the same thing regarding the sentence.
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1733
By Asura.Malekith 2012-09-21 13:21:39
Not to pick on words here but I don't see how clearly placing an item at an obviously inflated price is "cheating" someone out of their gil. Sure you're playing on their carelessness, and even trying to trick them into thinking they are buying something they aren't. But in the end, the game doesn't let you sell a single piece with a 100 sticker on it. You aren't misrepresenting anything, the game doesn't let you do that.
QFT
 Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2012-09-21 13:26:32
I made the mistake before into rushing byne bills. In this current market, there are a lot of buyers for currency these days.
I don't see why it's anything bad to change the icons of the currency. I guess the people scamming are complaining because their sole source of income is to cheat people of their gil. This all boils down to morals and ethics. And the general public doesn't really care if you did/didn't succeed into someone buying your items.
We get the point people are dumb sometimes and no one's made a mistake before of overbidding. Don't condone the developers trying to help the greater good and make the game more enjoyable for everyone else. Not to pick on words here but I don't see how clearly placing an item at an obviously inflated price is "cheating" someone out of their gil. Sure you're playing on their carelessness, and even trying to trick them into thinking they are buying something they aren't. But in the end, the game doesn't let you sell a single piece with a 100 sticker on it. You aren't misrepresenting anything, the game doesn't let you do that.
Was salvage duping "cheating?"
This isn't about whether or not this kind of bazaaring is against the rules. It's about trying to prevent a lamentable outcome.
Salvage duping was indeed cheating but there's a big difference between saying "Hey lets break our alliance to duplicate rare gear." vs "Hey you wanna buy my 1 Byne Bill for 700k?"
The buyer's outcome is lamentable, the seller's is quite desirable. while the seller might be somewhat unethical, it's no ones fault but the buyer's that they bought overpriced currency.
Leviathan.Kincard
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1442
By Leviathan.Kincard 2012-09-21 13:30:51
I'm not sure why you're being so pedantic over the use of the word "cheating" when the original use of the word was obviously not in the context of "cheating in a game" but rather "getting cheated". In both salvage duping and the byne scam there's an individual doing something he knows is wrong. That's the only thing that really needs to be said on the matter.
By Lye 2012-09-21 13:31:12
I made the mistake before into rushing byne bills. In this current market, there are a lot of buyers for currency these days.
I don't see why it's anything bad to change the icons of the currency. I guess the people scamming are complaining because their sole source of income is to cheat people of their gil. This all boils down to morals and ethics. And the general public doesn't really care if you did/didn't succeed into someone buying your items.
We get the point people are dumb sometimes and no one's made a mistake before of overbidding. Don't condone the developers trying to help the greater good and make the game more enjoyable for everyone else. Not to pick on words here but I don't see how clearly placing an item at an obviously inflated price is "cheating" someone out of their gil. Sure you're playing on their carelessness, and even trying to trick them into thinking they are buying something they aren't. But in the end, the game doesn't let you sell a single piece with a 100 sticker on it. You aren't misrepresenting anything, the game doesn't let you do that.
Was salvage duping "cheating?"
This isn't about whether or not this kind of bazaaring is against the rules. It's about trying to prevent a lamentable outcome.
Salvage duping was indeed cheating but there's a big difference between saying "Hey lets break our alliance to duplicate rare gear." vs "Hey you wanna buy my 1 Byne Bill for 700k?"
The buyer's outcome is lamentable, the seller's is quite desirable. while the seller might be somewhat unethical, it's no ones fault but the buyer's that they bought overpriced currency.
I removed the salvage comment because it brought into question the "victimless crime." It's not really relevant.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say in your second paragraph though. No one is being "punished" here. To say "it's no ones fault" implies that SE's actions are an attempt to address fault. Surely you can see that SE doesn't care who's "right" or "wrong." They just don't want gm calls and an icon change may reduce the number of GM calls.
Bismarck.Hsieh
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 709
By Bismarck.Hsieh 2012-09-21 13:47:41
Cheating, scamming, taking away gil from someone's mistake and not giving it back is all the same to me, whatever. Again it boils down to ethics. People will argue all day about this topic because there's two obvious sides to this 1) people that profit off of it 2) people that lose out on this. I still sympathize the people that overpaid over the person that made profit off a mistake.
Consider this situation: person shouts and yell he's selling in his bazaar x currency for y price. Turns out to be a currency for b price and since people are in a hurry to compete and buy it fast, will make the mistake. Yes, it's their mistake but now there's false advertising involved. (Then again it's rare for me to see a bunch of 100's for sale).
I prefer my icons whitebox onry and if this lowers the chances of people making mistakes so be it. Find some other means of making gil using t shells or bronze pieces. Reason bynes are used is because the difference in colors between 100 and 1 isn't that noticeable.
Again I still don't understand why people would be against this change. I also don't understand why people would be against collision adjustments in Port Jeuno.
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Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2012-09-21 13:54:50
Only in this FFXI environment can we produce 6 pages regarding a highly unethical way of making gil that has previously been a quick trip to a ban or having your gil snatched by a GM.
Look twice before you buy "cheap" currency.
If you sell currency in such a fashion you're cheating people out of their gil - quit the rationalizations and accept facts.
SE is addressing something that should be a footnote in a version update as if it is something major.
People do dumb things but that doesn't mean that we can't try to limit the manipulation where possible.
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Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2012-09-21 13:55:01
Consider this situation: person shouts and yell he's selling in his bazaar x currency for y price. Turns out to be a currency for b price and since people are in a hurry to compete and buy it fast, will make the mistake. Yes, it's their mistake but now there's false advertising involved. (Then again it's rare for me to see a bunch of 100's for sale). I had a friend get a week long ban for advertising (via shout) 100s while selling singles, they called it fraud. GMs zero'd his bank and banned him, I lol'd. So yeah, GMs do stuff. But bazaaring any item for any price is completely legal, just can't false advertise I guess.
Bismarck.Hsieh
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 709
By Bismarck.Hsieh 2012-09-21 13:59:25
Consider this situation: person shouts and yell he's selling in his bazaar x currency for y price. Turns out to be a currency for b price and since people are in a hurry to compete and buy it fast, will make the mistake. Yes, it's their mistake but now there's false advertising involved. (Then again it's rare for me to see a bunch of 100's for sale). I had a friend get a week long ban for advertising (via shout) 100s while selling singles, they called it fraud. GMs zero'd his bank and banned him, I lol'd. So yeah, GMs do stuff. But bazaaring any item for any price is completely legal, just can't false advertise I guess.
Interesting. Honestly, if I was the GM I wouldn't warrant the ban but instead give the gil back and give a warning/suspension. After all, the sell could have made a "mistake" and put up the wrong item.
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 109
By Bismarck.Azagthothe 2012-09-21 14:00:21
Consider this situation: person shouts and yell he's selling in his bazaar x currency for y price. Turns out to be a currency for b price and since people are in a hurry to compete and buy it fast, will make the mistake. Yes, it's their mistake but now there's false advertising involved. (Then again it's rare for me to see a bunch of 100's for sale).
It isn't false advertising and it isn't even a scam unless the seller is actively trying to mislead players via shout, etc.
People need to start taking responsibility for their own mistakes and quit acting like they're victims.
Personally, I wouldn't bazaar overpriced currency, but I don't judge people that do; I laugh.
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Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2012-09-21 14:06:17
Consider this situation: person shouts and yell he's selling in his bazaar x currency for y price. Turns out to be a currency for b price and since people are in a hurry to compete and buy it fast, will make the mistake. Yes, it's their mistake but now there's false advertising involved. (Then again it's rare for me to see a bunch of 100's for sale). I had a friend get a week long ban for advertising (via shout) 100s while selling singles, they called it fraud. GMs zero'd his bank and banned him, I lol'd. So yeah, GMs do stuff. But bazaaring any item for any price is completely legal, just can't false advertise I guess.
Interesting. Honestly, if I was the GM I wouldn't warrant the ban but instead give the gil back and give a warning/suspension. After all, the sell could have made a "mistake" and put up the wrong item.
not in this case lol, he had been doing it for days. He deserved the ban.
Bismarck.Hsieh
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 709
By Bismarck.Hsieh 2012-09-21 14:11:44
Consider this situation: person shouts and yell he's selling in his bazaar x currency for y price. Turns out to be a currency for b price and since people are in a hurry to compete and buy it fast, will make the mistake. Yes, it's their mistake but now there's false advertising involved. (Then again it's rare for me to see a bunch of 100's for sale). I had a friend get a week long ban for advertising (via shout) 100s while selling singles, they called it fraud. GMs zero'd his bank and banned him, I lol'd. So yeah, GMs do stuff. But bazaaring any item for any price is completely legal, just can't false advertise I guess.
Interesting. Honestly, if I was the GM I wouldn't warrant the ban but instead give the gil back and give a warning/suspension. After all, the sell could have made a "mistake" and put up the wrong item.
not in this case lol, he had been doing it for days. He deserved the ban. I can agree to that, lol.
Leviathan.Kincard
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1442
By Leviathan.Kincard 2012-09-21 14:32:54
Quote: It isn't false advertising and it isn't even a scam unless the seller is actively trying to mislead players via shout, etc.
A scam is basically just another way of saying a deception, mostly for personal gain. Attempting to profit off the momentary inattentiveness of others is a scam. How do people not know what a scam is?
And yeah, it's not technically against the rules of the game to do it...which, again, is completely missing the point.
Quote: People need to start taking responsibility for their own mistakes and quit acting like they're victims.
I find this statement confusing when pretty much every single person that has owned up to having been scammed before by this in this thread has basically said "yeah I know I'm at fault, but it's cool they're trying to make it happen less". There is basically 0 bellyaching from people being scammed going on here, but a whole lot of edgy sociopaths getting a bug up their *** for no real reason.
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Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1119
By Sylph.Safiyyah 2012-09-21 14:40:10
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Only in this FFXI environment can we produce 6 pages regarding a highly unethical way of making gil that has previously been a quick trip to a ban or having your gil snatched by a GM.
Look twice before you buy "cheap" currency.
If you sell currency in such a fashion you're cheating people out of their gil - quit the rationalizations and accept facts.
SE is addressing something that should be a footnote in a version update as if it is something major.
People do dumb things but that doesn't mean that we can't try to limit the manipulation where possible.
This. It's really that simple.
Sad that there's a thread here half full of scumbags defending scumbags :(
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 109
By Bismarck.Azagthothe 2012-09-21 15:29:24
Leviathan.Kincard said: »Quote: It isn't false advertising and it isn't even a scam unless the seller is actively trying to mislead players via shout, etc.
A scam is basically just another way of saying a deception, mostly for personal gain. Attempting to profit off the momentary inattentiveness of others is a scam. How do people not know what a scam is?
I didn't realize that placing an items in your bazaar is considered a scam. It only becomes a scam if you mislead players through shouting, etc.
Most people that admit to buying overpriced currency make excuses. That isn't taking responsibility for the mistake.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 102
By Asura.Catsidhe 2012-09-21 15:33:05
It's totally misleading to place singles inbetween 100s and price them up the same in the hope someone just happliy buys them all and doesn't notice.Now surely even your not that ignorant to believe otherwise.SCAM!!
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 109
By Bismarck.Azagthothe 2012-09-21 15:35:06
How is it misleading exactly? A person is selling a single piece for 740k. I don't see how it can be anymore clear.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 102
By Asura.Catsidhe 2012-09-21 15:38:39
ok I'll spell it out again.
100 Byne Bill 800k
100 Byne Bill 800k
100 Byne Bill 800k
100 Byne Bill 800k
1 Byne Bill 800k
100 Byne Bill 800k
100 Byne Bill 800k
100 Byne Bill 800k
1 Byne Bill 800k
100 Byne Bill 800k
YOU SEE WHAT I DID THARRRR!!!
Now tell me those doing it aren't trying to catch people out hiding them inbetween, SCAM!!
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 102
By Asura.Catsidhe 2012-09-21 15:42:28
lol well that's what Ive seen people doing, loads.
By Jassik 2012-09-21 15:43:00
While its your own fault and people that have enough gil to be careless with purchases of this nature have no excuse for falling for it... this is an obvious scam, and it could be a mistake, i find it utterly despicable to gloat about making gil this way when there are so many legit and easy ways to make gil these days.
By Lye 2012-09-21 15:43:19
Bismarck.Azagthothe said: »How is it misleading exactly? A person is selling a single piece for 740k. I don't see how it can be anymore clear.
I don't even care about "right, wrong, good, bad" in the matter but..
I suppose you find the fact that it is ever so slightly less than 100 times the usual price to NOT be a sign that the person is hoping for the inattentive buyer? That it's coincidental?
You don't actually believe what you're saying, however, you don't like the possibility being ignored? I get that.
If anything, you should be in favor of these measures because they will ensure that your good intentioned 740k singles will be readily noticed sooner than those ill-intentioned ones in "bad-guy" bazaars.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
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