[dev1243] New Job Enhancements: Gifts

Source: You're attitude. Maybe it's in your Autobiography but I don't think any publishers have picked it up yet. I'll make sure to source it at the bottom of my post once it gets released.


Clearly not since the Messiah complex is about having delusions of grandeur.


I clearly brought to the table people wanting to argue as you can see from your quote above. It's pretty apparent you want to argue just as badly being as that this is now page 11 and you've been vocal from the start. You claimed "not this card again" which indicates you've been in many similar situations.


You don't have to like me but my intent isn't to lie which is why I don't edit posts unless it's a typo or grammar error.

You two are just beating a dead horse. Just agree to disagree and move on.

I love how, no matter the original intent of a thread, it always ends in logical fallacies and personal attacks in an effort to be superior to the other person over the internet.

I don't like the changes. That's my two cents. Carry on.

Cute, but wrong. I have no idea what gives you the impression that I feel my opinion is worth more than someone else's, but I sure as ***believe I have every right to say it as anyone else does.



If this was the reason I helped people I'd have stopped long ago. You don't get a rush of power and prestige by offering assistance to others or giving them information. You get their thanks, yes, and it's something I'm grateful for being a part of, but don't assume that just because I used my position in the community to offset your accusations about my post count that I believe I'm anything more than I am.



This has no bearing on my post count here. Knowing how to argue and having argumentative/debate skills is something you learn in school. At least, I did. When you've been around as long as I have on XI boards, you'd have to be blind not to see things like post count, real life, etc. brought in to arguments. It happens all the time. You aren't special for having done it, and pointing that out doesn't betray me as someone who enjoys arguing. I'm stubborn, and I'm not about to back down from my opinions and ignore people directly addressing my points.



I don't have to dislike you either, but when you throw this kind of ***out there and claim something directly opposite of what your post implies or says, it's difficult to not be guarded.

Anyway moderator said to stop, and I didn't see the post since I was writing this. If you want to continue this just PM me.

Same position I have. I can acquire JP easily because I have access to high end resources and a secondary character I dual box that only does support jobs. Casual players are what pay for the servers to be kept on and the developer team to be making content, if they leave then the game dies. If "hardcore" players leave, only thing that happens is developers tone down content. Because of this economic reality it's very bad for any game to exclude or lock out casual players, no matter how much the HC folks cry about wanting something exclusive to distinguish themselves.

Current JP system locks out casual players due to the ridiculous inefficiency in farming them solo or without needed support crew. All of you thinking "just go to WoH Gates I got a bazillion CP there" are forgetting that without that BRD / COR / GEO you would be getting crap CP due to your inability to actually kill the monsters. You would be whiffing all day long and people would just not go. I do almost all my group CP farming in Doh gates because while it has less CP per kill, the requires are less so we can bring non-perfect setups and people's mules. Just need a BRD, a healer and sushi and nearly anyone can kill fast enough to make it worthwhile. There also isn't enough camps in either Doh or Woh gates. Because so few people farm JP's it seems like there is space, but the moment people are forced to do it suddenly it'll be overcrowded like Bird and Puk camp used to be.

How is this any different then having your gear choices determined by your level? Oh, lvling is piss easy thanks to Aby. They knew that, and took a direction that would get people to be active to be current. So what's the issue exactly?

Not saying JPs are 100% fine (I even agree, they're not), but at this point, you may as well look at them as a continuance of the exp system. They're going to dictate the quality of gear you can equip in the near future, just like level used to. The people that keep saying "there's no reason to do JPs!"....well, now there is, isn't there?

There wasn't supposed to be a reason to get JP, when they were announced they were said to be optional and the were, they added small improvements to each job but weren't needed.

Suddenly if you need JP to get a significant improvement to each job, it goes back on what SE originally stated them to be.

Exactly. I seriously can't believe how many people miss this. This is the point. You were NOT supposed to have a goal within JP. Just to get them at your leisure.

If they didn't *** us right from the beginning this wouldn't even be up for argument.

Fair enough, can't really fault that. But how else could SE get us to "level up"? They went the whole ilvl route, and got nothing but venomous backlash over it for nearly the entirety of it's inception. Even now when we've been capped at 119 for over a year, you still see a lot of ilvl complaints. They could of given us actual levels earned by exp, but that opens up new issues concerning subs and the development nightmare that is Abyssea exp. If they had given us actual new levels rather than this psuedo leveling through JPs, but the levels required 1+ million exp each, would there be less complaining?

Personally, while I'm not thrilled that it's tied to JPs, I can get behind the idea of it requiring old school leveling. ilvl felt silly, a job you Aby burned up to 99 years ago could plop on ilvl 119 gear and be current. This at least gets someone to actually play a job that they're going to use.

Regarding cp spot contention:
Go scout the new subzones they added and actually try them out, the aggro/link range on some stuff is super small and the respawns are quick. Even if more people suddenly wanted to grind this out there are a ton of unutilized camps.

Regarding 'casual' play, or getting cp without killing 'rabbits'.
I have a whm mule that does nothing but run around and heal me+others when the last surge WoE campaign ran, and wildskeeper reive campaign and she has 25 JP. She has no CP cape and has never used a capacity ring.
She's never been dragged to a meripo party and she's halfway to the Su1 rank doing 2 activities that people do for every possible reason besides the CP/JP.

Surge WoE at its peak clears in 10-15minutes and gives 3k-3200 cp, so while people go to this for the loot as the main draw, they are getting merits and cp. If someone doesnt wanna grind CP, do something else like WoE/WKR that *might* align better with your priorities (getting loot) and just get some CP on the side.

If someone is doing dynamis and targeting DC monsters, some of those are giving CP while you are doing a gil making activity. Its nothing amazing, but it adds up.



Take another look at the act of 'grinding' without focusing on just CP/hr and see what else this activity yields.

So *if* you choose to do CP party.
+You get the obvious capacity points (for jobpoints and 'gifts')
+You get merits (to pay for high tier battlefields for loot)
+You get unity accolades (to spawn NMs for loot)
+You get sparks (this is basically handing you gil especially when xp RoE objective pops)
+You get kc/hkc/skc (for older battlefields for rare loot+useful synth/reforge mats) (look there's another seal+BC campaign starting on dec 2nd http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/13365/detail.html )


... all at the same time from 1 activity, those horrible horrible devs ;_;

I absolutely *** hate level tied to gear. It's HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE. Strip ilvl *** and give us legit levels. I don't give a damn how supposedly game breaking sub job abilities would be. Restrict them to main job only, it's not like they aren't already doing that.

Exactly, Afflatus Solace/Misery says hi.

Subjob and balancing Jas never was the real issue here.
Rather technical issue that would have required massive upgrades on the core of the game on their said.
Or so they claimed.

I think we can believe them.
It was the original reason why they went the ilevel route.
Now they're trying a new route, appearently (we might be wrong, we've been discussing this for over 12 pages knowing absolutely nothing other than a label used for one of the Gifts).
Same goal, different means.


As I've said multiple times, and I'm glad some people understood this, I don't see anything wrong with the idea in itself. It's actually cool.
The real problem is in tying it to the JP system, a system that's severely flawed by several issued that so far they refused to properly address, relying on small tweaks that made the situation better but didn't solve it as a whole.

They might progressively solve it though? I mean, maybe they won't, but it MIGHT just happen? Let's see.


What they need to keep in mind though is that it's absolutely preposterous and anachronistic to ask of players the levels of grind commitment that were the "standard" in 2005 gaming. (arguably JPs atm could be defined even worse than that)
That's unacceptable, it would be for any game but it is especially true after you spoiled your own player base with over 3 years of Abyssea exp with no sign of change of mind on their side.
I hope they realize and acknowledge this, and tune the level of grind required (and its accessibility) in light of this crucial aspect.

And Innin, and Yonin, probably more stuff too.
They would have no problem in restricting stuff like Super Jump, Composure and so on.
They already said that JAs, traits and balancement wasn't the real issue why they picked the "easy way" of letting us level up through ilevel route.

I actually like the idea of getting Gift bonuses (the new Job Traits, Combat/Magic Skill, Spells etc.) as I improve my job through the JP system, but that is far from being the only thing I get, nor is it the most relevant one.

Unless we find out the Superior armor is actually some crappy "Special Event" towns gear or some side grade that does not make or break a job (as if you actually went through yet another limit breaker quest), then this system will involve a grind that is much worse than anything else we've been required to do in order to proceed with the game (56k exp to go from lvl98 to lvl99, now 1.5M cp to presumably get from 119 to 120?).

Quite frankly, also, I like linear progressions, and the fact we went from Experience Points to iLVL, and may now be heading to yet another different progression system called Capacity Points simply drives me nuts and makes me shake fists at SE for not sticking to Exp/Merits. It's like SE decided apples were red, then wait, make it blue, no wait, actually they are brown! Get your ***t together and give us lvl 100 through Exp points ffs.

And why exactly do players need to "level up" anymore? Raising the level cap, increasing ilvl, etc. ultimately accomplishes nothing aside from making old content easier/obsolete, and inflating numbers for future content without making it functionally any different.

I agree it's not necessary, and old FFXI players know it well.
But it's a powerful instrument in the hands of developers to easily create a spread feeling of freshness in the game (wether it's fake or real, it's another topic) and bring players back to the game (or keep them!)

It's also perceived as a "standard" by most players (since it's what regularly happens in every game) and a lack of thereof is quite often perceived as a sign of stagnation and "doomsday" for the related title lacking such a regular feature.

Because it is different? Job Points are a much different animal than XP/Merits. XP and LP flow. CP trickles and you need a lot more CP to fill your proverbial bucket. If they're going to make earning CP less optional then they need to increase the flow substantially or lower the amount needed. We never needed millions of XP to earn a level, and even after Abyssea came along that didn't change. Now suddenly they think this is WoW where you do need millions of XP to level, yet it's still FFXI where killing a high level mob doesn't get you 20,000 XP.

It's obvious they're ripping off WoW with the "Superior" gear label. And Superior in WoW means just that. Better than normal. If you think this stuff is going to be meaningless fluff pieces then you're just in denial about what SE is willing to do to you.

SE said they can't get our characters lv up past lv 99, how else can you lv up? Further more, JP does give stats and traits, in that case it's almost the same as lv up.

Regarding the "I want to equip the gear if I have the gear comment":

If you let the characters lv up by gears, it's not the same as lv up with JP, simply because you can literally have a max out job without having to play it after you reach lv 99, ever.

For example, if you have a DNC and BRD lv 99, you can grind gears for your lv1 THF by doing endgame on those jobs, then farm 2 of the lv 119 legendary weapon(out of 3) on those jobs. As soon as your THF lv up to lv 99, you get pimp THF instantly with all the capped gears and 2 lv 119 legendary weapons....without ever play it once, except leeching in Abyssea.

From RPG POV, this doesn't make sense at all. I believe character growth shouldn't be relying on gear only, since you can get them without even playing the job.




It took me 19hr of gameplay to solo grind 50 CP for access to gears, that doesn't include double CP campaign, nor CP gained from delve/incursion/WoE nor perfect CP pt. It's just a very casual grind I do whenever I'm waiting for friends to pop for events.

It took me 3~5 months to get a job to 75 before Abyssea, playing over 2hr a day. Most of the modern MMO I've played needs more than 19hr of gameplay to lv a char from lv 1~ lv cap.

So ppl don't complain about grinding lv in other titles, and yet they complained about mere 50 CP, lol.

You have to look at the time spent, instead of the numbers.

I can get 56k exp in less than 15 min soloing trash mobs. At 75 56k exp is a lot, nowadays gaining 1 lv in 15 min is just wayyyyy below MMORPG's standard.

Spending 19hr of gameplay for 1.5M CP for next lv cap seems "just right" in terms of MMO grind, maybe a little bit higher than avg MMO lv cap increase, but it's still way better than lv 50~lv 75 era, IMO it's nowhere close to unacceptable.

19 hours of gameplay could mean 19 days, and I'm sorry to say this as if it were necessary, but not everyone in the game will have the means of acquiring the same exp/hr ratio as others (not my case, but you get what I mean). Overall, this system is punishing beyond anything we ever had to endure just to upgrade 1 job out of 24.

Proclaiming this is "just right" when in the end, MMO or not, this is a videogame, just won't convince me. I am glad we may have a chance to get back to Partying for Exp, as I missed it, really. The amount of work involved for each job though, does not please me, as I was now used to being able to play and enjoy each job fully, whereas now I and many other players will end up purposely working on "favorites", "needed" or "job of the month" standards.

Doh gate CP gain isn't bad at all, it's easily 3k CP per kill during double CP campaign with capacity ring/roll.



Most DD also don't need any additional support to cap acc with trusts, and mobs are squishy so they die really fast.

Or 19 months if you play 1hr a month, your point?

The point is to compare the hr, not month/days. You can play 19hr in 1 day or 1 year, this is subjective.



Except it is not, you're over exaggerating with the above statement. I used to play 2~3hr a day, it took me at least 3 months to reach lv 75 for 1 job, that's over 150hr of grind. There are also some jobs that never get invite, such as BST DRG.

I'm not trying to defend for the pace in lv 75 era, but if you're saying farming 50 CP is "punishing beyond anything we ever had to endure", then it's just plain wrong, which I had to point out.



Again, if you can't tolerate less than 20hr of grind, then MMORPG simply isn't for you. I also don't understand what do you mean by "I was now used to being able to play and enjoy each job fully", sounds like you only enjoy playing a maxed out job, instead of spending the time to get your job max out. If that's the case, as I said over and over, MMORPG simply isn't genre for you. The goal of MMORPG isn't, spend an afternoon playing and you get a perfect character. The point of MMORPG is to keep playing and keep making progress.

I'm saying it in front of the fact this is said to be the 1st of a series of "Superior" levels, as SE itself stated, meaning we will get increasing requirements to go further up the ladder.

Come on, it's been said and said since the first few pages of this thread.

GL finding a spot on any current (not old) content on a job that isn't "iLVL xxx" then.

Yes but the rate of obtaining EXP and CP also had been increasing. The EXP/hr you gain at lv 50 cap era was slower than lv 75 era, and lv 75 era exp/hr is slower than Abyssea era.

So does CP, when CP was introduced there were no COR roll bonus, I don't recall it has CP bonus ring either(I may be wrong on this). Now we have COR roll bonus, then incursion back piece, and soon we're going to get further CP bonus from job enhancements gifts. How do you know your CP gain/hr are going to stay the same after 3 years?

Again, you're exaggerating the entire situation.

Or go work for them, like what you would do in other MMORPG titles. Some game doesn't even let you join auto pt queue without meeting the lv/gear requirement, lol. Is the concept of progression that hard to understand?

And the other 50 weeks a year that number is cut in half. You guys are talking about doing things under greater than ideal conditions as though that's the experience the average player will have on a day-to-day basis.

I'm sure the JP system does seem great during a double CP campaign and when you're on the bleeding edge of gear acquisition and riding the best buffs money can buy. You guys are out-of-touch with reality if you think it's great for everyone just because it's great for you and those who live in your bubble.

Even without the bonus it's still less than 20hr of grind for 50 JP, 10hr difference of work, big deal. Most players probably spend more time sitting in town chatting instead grinding them.