[dev1243] New Job Enhancements: Gifts

Yeah it was nice being able to cap out merits for key items and getting 2-3 points each run.

I'd say the fat lady hummed a few bars and the nails are starting to be hammered.

The grind has returned.

Then again, maybe that will bring back fun in job point parties like pre-aby days.

This is quite simply Merit Points 2.0

The primary difference is this:

Merit Points 1.0

Level an 'optimal' MP job (WAR/BRD/SAM/RDM) to 75.
Grind merit points.
Spend merits on any job you want.

Merit points 2.0

Level job you want play.
Quick check, is that job 'optimal' for CP (or MP2.0) grind?

Yes - {Invite to Join Party}
No - {Thanks for the offer but i'll have to pass}

Even in the last 2 weeks I have seen CP shouts for "SAM/BRD/WHM" onry parties. What will change when this comes out?

~Inb4 "Make your own party". You miss the point. The point is about general player attitudes - and this wont help it.

Proth, I have read the entire thread actually and surprisingly to myself. I think the below is an excellent argument as to why you should already have 50 CP for the jobs you actually play in this game.


Not to mention the addition of CP chains and adjustment to Corsair's Roll!

I get the argument that JP is tedious and grindy if you want to max out many or all categories, but I mean, this is FFXI, which is already known for its grind like most other longstanding MMOs. Personally, I don't find a grind for 50 CP to be bad at all, given the above adjustments to CP, and I don't think I'm alone on this. Some jobs will of course have an easier time with this, but it's certainly not a lot of effort needed by any job if you care about that job and play it well. Obviously, this is also much easier with double CP, and I'd expect another double CP campaign to occur within the next month or so.

Also, I understand how this whole equipment attached to Gifts is a total blindside, but I fail to understand all the general hate about this extra form of character development. And if you don't want to participate in it, you don't have to. We don't even know what superior gear is going to be like or if any is even going to be released this upcoming update.

I like the JP system already because for whatever reason, I like slow-progression growth systems in RPGs, and I'm excited for JP Gifts in the next update. That's all I gotta say, bai.

Unless you're new or returning or missed the campaign, but who cares about people like that?

And of course there's no sympathy for those who didn't foresee the need to max out JP before SE retconned them into relevance.

Keep in mind his one argument; what if this superior system goes to Lv 2, 3, 4, 5 and you need 100, 150, 200 etc points? Most jobs barely have one thing worth taking to 10/10, let alone 4-5 catigories. It's finding the drive to do it with little reward. Yes it's easy to get 50 JP, but if this continues and becomes what it's thought to be, it'll be nothing but extreme grind, which some are fine with, but if, I don't know, Superior 5 is something like Damage II -30% armor for PLD, that's going to be a huge slap in the face, although *** amazing.

What about jobs that are ***for events that give JP? Why would I have possibly earned 50 JP on Rng already? Litteraly the only event you get CP from on Rng is Marjami Delve and it's not like that is a job that is useful for going around soloing or joining JP parties. Not to mention the JPs to begin with for that job are bad so why would I "have already earned" the JP.

Sure on my main, Sam, where I do tons of events that ***JP everywhere and that is great at both solo and party CP grinding I have no problem with getting 50 CP. On my situational jobs that I only take out for certain events? Hell no I don't see why I would be expected to have this already.

Yeah so if you're returning it's hard to think you may have to catch up on content. You'll still get CP the same way anyone else should be getting it. By doing the relevant content. I've taken GEO to Incursion a handful of times and have 10 job points sitting on it. Never taken it to exp grind once.

if you think my problem is with the initial 50 JP then no you didn't



he gets it, and so far he's the only person who has argued with me in a truly level headed manner.





i get it, you guys have loads of JPs and everyone already has 50 for the first upgrade. big deal. that isn't what I'm arguing about. and calling us whiny (myself and whoever else opposes this) or whatever isn't a valid argument. I don't mean to insult anyone by saying that, but jesus christ at least try to formulate an actual argument before you come in here respouting the same thing that's already been said 3 times.

i'm not even going to complain about the impending job traits, spells, and possible job abilities from these things. those are more like merits, albeit significantly more time investment to unlock them. my issue is with senseless gear gating that will only get worse and inevitably make it harder for returning players and players without a ton of time to do things.

See, I wouldn't be quite as perturbed if it didn't feel like SE flat out lied about what the Job Points system was intended to be. Anyone who thinks that, either through content design or player demand, JP's won't become an absolute necessity is delusional.

Just like RME holders expected everyone else to have an RME back when Delve came out, people with max JPs will expect everyone to have max JPs when the next big event comes along.

Worth noting also that i personally have enough jp to unlock everything if I ever log in again. This argument isn't coming from someone who didn't put in their time/was too lazy. I'm concerned about other people and the future of this system

Am I the only one who thinks the "Superior Armor 1" thing is going to involve the old Empyrean Armor sets in some way?

Just a crazy hunch I had as I was reading through the thread.

They are going to become necessary. The writing is on the wall. They will be used for character development. They will be used for new spells, traits, and presumably abilities as well. You know, just like exping or meriting.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/45061-Freshly-Picked-Vana-diel-13-Digest?p=531805#post531805

Matsui

It's almost as if Geomancer was a desirable job. Is the career returning BST, RUN, PUP, SMN, etc. going to be beating off reply tells to that incursion shout they inquired about joining?

I dont know why people are pissed. You only need 90JP spent to max out current gifts. That's slightly under two JP categories maxed. It takes 55 JP to fully upgrade one category to 10/10. Can do that in like like 10 hours of job point farming split into a couple hour session a few nights per week just like you would leveling back pre-abyssea from like 40-60 or something.

Probably less since you get permanent CP bonuses en route and they promised to increase CP gain moving forward.

Say the same thing when that 50 becomes 500 for Su 2.

You have to stop it NOW. Make it known it's unacceptable before they run with it.

I think you're just fear mongering. Who knows if it'll take 11>12>13 JP to get to 11>12>13th upgrade. Maybe it will be 10>10>10>10>10>11>11>11>11>11>12>12>etc, until 30/30 is reached. You don't know for certain if it will follow the same step-wise pattern as it has been. It might even just be 10>10>10 all the way to 30.

so it taking more/less JPs to upgrade each step of a category somehow makes the fact that needing to spend all the points for future gear gates and making it a pain in the *** and borderline "i'm not even going to bother coming back if I need to do this ***" territory okay?


okay.


just a hunch but I get the feeling you didn't read a single page of this thread.

I don't know how this hasn't been made clear yet, but to say again: Most people don't think that the current amount of JP required to unlock the sets is a lot. For people who really enjoy a specific job, there probably is no breakpoint for when it will be "a lot".

The problem is the continuous grind for nothing. I'd have to compete with 14-17 other people for gear I want, deal with the randomness of the drops, then go out and farm the JP on every job I want to use that piece of equipment on.

It matters very little that I got 20 JP on SCH from Incursion when my job of interest is something entirely different. I'm all for needing to grind JP to get meaningful job-related upgrades such as traits/spells, but gear is something I earned from doing something entirely different already.

Merit group 2 categories increase from 3>4>5 then 5>5. Attributes increased from 3>6>9>9>9>12>12>12>12>15>15>15>15. HP/MP merits start off with a similar step increase as job points too: 1>2>3>4>5 BUT THEN!! 5>5>5>5>7>7>7>9>9>9.


Also who knows what this superior gear is. It could be a job specific mascot hat. Or a hat that confers a new emote or something. People are jumping off the deepend already thinking it's going to be the most elite, absolutely needed, reforged hq empyrean +8 or something. It could be a stupid torque or a mask. The point is there's way too many assumptions.

Also not every spell released through job points is going to be required. Look how important 85% of merit spells are. How many blms absolutely need AMII, how many WHM/SCH really need Protectra V, how about NIN san spells? Blind2/bio3/phalanx2? Adventurer's Dirge?

It is called SUPERIOR. Safe bet it just might, maybe be SUPERIOR to what we have, you know.

Massacre Elegy.

Terrible logic. By that logic artifact/relic relates to old/obsolete/antiquated.


Also if you want to use faulty logic, just remeber SE has never gated a large portion of the FF community behind a wall of weeks to months of shi**y, grindy exping. SE is all about reducing the gap between casual and hardcore so to make it so endgame is inaccessible unless you grind a job for 3 months if you're a casual player wouldnt fit their track history.

Where did they ever say players would get Massacre Elegy? I didn't see it, was it in a JP post or is that conjecture? There's dozens of spells players can't cast but mobs can: Poison III/Bio IV/Dia IV/Utsusemi:San/Virus/Plague/Death/Aga-IV/Banish IV etc.

Artifacts/Relics are "valuable" "worth keeping" etc. Not just "old"

If someone calls something superior, specifically the PEOPLE WHO MAKE IT... I'm gonna say yeah, I probably want it.

Or we could roll with the pattern that any exclusively named gear - artifact, relic, emperyean has been meaningful to the job in some way outside of cosmetics.

Otherwise they want you to dump 50 JP on a Chocobo Suit and you're OK eating that up as SE innovation at work.

Fencer... Why?

Most of these aren't much of any bonus any Fiv, might as well give war the flagpole on the top of the crap hill.

I already have a flag pole for the top of the crap hill, its called Conqueror. THINK ABOUT IT.

Yeah it's like there's no room in events supporting 18 people for any of those jobs. If you're good on those jobs and know how to play them, your shell will take you. I would have no issue taking any of those jobs to an event that supports more than 6 people or to 6 man events where that particular job can shine. They obviously won't get into a /shout group but If all you do is PUG then I'm sorry. It's no secret that shout groups go with the most common of bandwagon jobs. Even then there's a 50% chance they'll fail. Do you see Samurais and Monks complaining they aren't welcome in AA fights? Can they do it? Yes. Will you do it with a PUG? No.

Or you can get the job points from EXP grind. Just like you did taking them to 99 and like you did capping your merits.