[dev1243] New Job Enhancements: Gifts

And if you want to argue that the stats from Gifts = conferring the bonuses of a level up, even a single level, you'd be dead wrong.

You really need to drop the slippery slope argument at this point. Whilst using extremes to overstate obvious points you are still assuming that everything is going to stay static in terms of cp gain on top of what this superior stat is going to be for.

Building any REM is a grind, duh, yadda yadda, etc... Since we're all making exaggerated claims I thought it was fitting.

I would honestly rather grind out REM than farm JPs because at least I don't have to rely on others to efficiently farm them

Grinding an REM is also for the actual REM, not for the legal paperwork to equip one you already have.

Farming CP is to unlock spells, abilities, traits, enhancements etc... the bonus is that you can now equip superior gear, thus showing the world you aren't some abyssea burned dipshit with no idea what they're actually doing.

yeah so much skill farming east ronfaure_u for 10 hours

or what? gonna tell on me? Node 212

I've experienced 12 years of XI. I've seen more than my fair share of how this dev team works. Your optimism is misplaced if you honestly believe the situation is going to dramatically improve, especially any time in the near future. Meanwhile, SU2/3/4/5/etc. being released and causing issues is a much more feasible threat.

I don't understand you paragons who defend SE's decisions to the death, no matter what they are and no matter how many people bring up completely valid concerns. Are you afraid they're going to punish you if you go against their almighty will? Do you feel like arguing from some wooden high horse makes you look superior, or cool? You can call our reactions overreactions all you want, but most of us have the experience to know what's around the corner. We've learned to smell the *** before we step in it.



Make way, make way, we've got a true bad *** over here! He killed a multitude of worms and bunnies in Woh Gates! He truly is the strongest man I have ever seen!

That's odd, I thought they put in trials so you can actually put it to use and not a trophy to be placed on a mannequin.

If you were playing at level 75 cap you didn't have to do anything to it afterwards. If you had one at level 80 cap, you had to do a little extra work to keep your old gear relevant, which is much different than receiving an unrelated piece of level 80 gear with the tag [MUST WASTE THIS MUCH TIME TO EQUIP].

No, if you need to actually create an argument that will hold some weight. Using fallacies to achieve that is a waste of everyone else's time having a discussion with you. Its not misplaced optimism that I have, it is judging the complete unknown picture of what is going to be released and what can be released. Assuming how I feel towards this topic is another antic that really only belittles what you have as a valid argument on top of the ad hominem attacks. I don't need to defend anything nor do I need to condemn it at this point. My statement is clearly that you need to base this from a more logical standing instead of throwing your emotional self-fulfilling ostracizing view of the opposite to your belief of this new system being introduced.

Cause as this stands it is a one-sided sand-in-the-vagina fest from yourself.

You're pathetic cynicism is getting tiresome. It's almost hysterical that the person with no less than 11,200 posts on this form is the one telling people they like to argue on a soap box. Congratulations on achieving your staggering post count from so many legitimate contributions such as the above.

Hey, remember those kill trials for relics that were in the thousands its a great thing that kept around as a roadblock to make you feel accomplished when you completed it... oh right they lowered that to a reasonable amount.

I'm not sure you know what ad hominem is, because I haven't employed it yet in this thread. Nice try strawmanning, though.

As for the rest of your post, you're basically dismissing my own and other's opinions (because unless you have several people in this thread blocked, I'm not the only one with my views) on the basis of "you should just stop because I say so". Which is amusing, but overall something to ignore.

And oh boy, the post count card. Do you guys just have no ammo left at this point for actual logical argument, or are you just going to continue resorting to insults and attempting to negate arguments with "you should stop and man up blah blah"? The fact that you're using Job Points as a basis for player skill is what's hysterical here, me pointing it out is merely entertaining.

Also, relic trials? Really? How is needing JPs to equip gear that is of the same level as you comparable to leveling up a weapon with you for 24 levels (34 of them now)?

Its not dismissal if you have something valid to contribute. Defending assumptions isn't going to further this.

The concerns in this thread are just as valid as someone's optimism about the system being "like a level cap raise" or "a nice addition because 50 points isn't a lot!". Neither of those are substantiated by any more evidence than my own. You saying that they aren't doesn't diminish this, I'm not sure who you think you are to say so.

You need to go back and objectively read your posts. My "insult" was in direct reply to two people that referred to myself as a princess telling others to eat cake. Of course I'm going to come back with something. You quickly interjected yourself which appears the norm from what i've seen. It's not a card that I and apparently many others "play" it's just what you seem to do. You accused others of just loving to argue when as far as I can see the love to argue is exactly what got your post count so high. Far from illogical.

tl;dr from fat galka Sechs
Nobody knows what's gonna happen, if rates will stay the same and how people will react. (quit? whine? man up and farm?)
It could be a disaster, or not.
I'll call myself happy if through this mean they'll get people to shout for CP parties again, and to reply to people shouting.

I don't see that happening unless they also release a series of fixes to the system, but IF it happens I'll consider myself happy in the end.

Guess you didn't read the part where I said my issue wasn't with the amount of JP required? Otherwise I don't see what you're getting at.

Regardless of how you cut it trials directly upgraded a piece of gear you already had. I can see where you draw the similarity, though, since both trials and getting JP essentially comes down to killing trivial monsters for an extended period of time. However, they are fundamentally different under the assumption that I will be doing relevant end game content to obtain the piece of "superior" gear in question, not doing something meant for a level 90.

Concerns are not facts on how this system will evolve or what it is even for. To go as far as making the assumptions that it will progress to more Superior levels seems logical enough but everything around producing cp will change is just as logical as well.

Wat? As it currently stands CP is almost entirely useless for certain jobs. The ONLY reason you would grind CP on jobs like Rng is so you can equip this new level of gear, let's not begin to pretend that CP on some jobs are even close to worth the time.

Because your argument is ridiculous, and while I'm a part of this thread everything that is said regarding the argument that I'm supporting is free game for comment. It doesn't help that the whole "Leveling in Abyssea breeds Skilless Scrublords and the only way to fix it is by making them do x!" argument is old, tired, and something that is quite annoying to a lot of XI's old guard. As far as the princess eating cake thing, I had nothing to do with that, so don't even bother trying to bring it to the table here.

Further, you misread my post. It has nothing to do with others loving to argue, it has to do with people defending SE's decisions, bad good or in between, without any forethought into it aside from "well it doesn't affect me negatively personally, it must be perfect!"

And unless you've gone through all 11,000-12,000 of my posts, I'm not sure you have the authority to say where my posts came from, particularly since you're completely wrong about me, and even wrong about post count being an indication of intent or temperament. Please feel free to show me what you've given to the XI community that's come close to a minute measure of what I've helped contribute, and perhaps I'll take your "all you do is argue, that's why you have 11k posts" seriously. Until then.




And I haven't completely shot down the notion of CP changes being presented, I just find it extremely unlikely that it will happen in any meaningful manner and in any reasonable period of time. But that doesn't mean you have any right to shoot down my own argument on the basis of it being any less groundless than CP changes actually occurring, because they're both in the same exact position.

So people are crying because you have to level your job again to wear the high end gear?

I'm well aware that we're talking JP and not EXP but it's literally the exact same thing as grinding level ups back in the day. You're grinding out a level. It's not like 50 JP is some impossible goal, and this ***is almost literally the purpose of playing an JRPG, MMO or otherwise, you grind to level.

We have means of making this go faster with capes, rings, gifts, and relatively frequent double campaigns. It's not nearly the hassle people are making it out to be. CP comes in at about the rate old EXP comes in and we learned to make that come faster too, even before SE started throwing it at us. And soon they'll be throwing rapid fire CP crap at us too.

It's not like CP grinding is any different than old merit grinding, and unless you people just started playing then I don't think a lot of you should complain. JP have been out forever, you should've stumbled into 50JP on accident by now on any job you actually do stuff on.

Are we really going to act like an hour or so a night for a week is some kind of unforgivable grind in a game that's as over the hill as FFXI?

Aside from drawing the similarity it was that there was and have been adjustments to trials and even the merit system in the past. The statement would be that drawing a conclusion this early on in a system that was briefly shown without the greater context involved is at best just assumptions from either side of the argument.

That is exactly my point, you and anyone that is producing an argument is basing it on what they might think is going to happen or not happen. It is the concern that you or I or anyone else for that matter have no surrounding facts to this and are only speculating what we've witnessed before in previous patches. Which at this point has this tilting either way. I am shooting your argument down the same way I shoot my own down.

Facts or no, being so hostile to someone not sitting on their hands and waiting to be fed ***doesn't seem like the right way to go. The facts we do have are that the CP/JP system right now is pretty ***, and the gift system can potentially cause gear gates of varying degrees of *** down the line. Drawing a negative reaction from these two things is not unreasonable. No more unreasonable than praising it as the best thing ever before we have more concrete details (not saying you've personally done this).

You brought it to the table when you quoted my reply to "man up".


Yeah I misread so let me fix it. You think arguing makes you look superior and cool. You think because you've "helped to contribute" to the community that your opinion holds more water. You have a cynical tone in all your post to this thread. Some more than others. I really loved the part about America and Winning.

Better things to do, etc...


What a messiah complex. I couldn't possibly care less what you've contributed to the gaming community. I never said all you do is argue. I said it's obviously played it's part after again, you brought it to the table.

Hostility is coming from both sides when a strong opinion is involved but again neither side can lay claim to a fact of how this system will progress at this point. My only statement earlier was a comment to Fiv about how lackluster the entire system looked from a reward standpoint. Truthfully none of what is discussed in this thread on this site will have any impact to what could be shown to the community before the system is launched nor any possible changes that could arise due to us not knowing the outcome of what will get implemented.

Source?


If I felt the need to be superior and cool to people on FFXIAH then I certainly wouldn't do it by arguing. Don't try to twist my words against me dear, it doesn't work.



Messiah complex? Hardly. If I thought I was a god/messiah I would have said that I personally contributed everything to the community, when in reality I said I helped do it. Hooked on phonics worked for me. You brought it to the table, I'm not sure what you're on about by saying I told myself that I have 11k posts and I got them by arguing on a soap box. As for you saying that you didn't claim my posts are mostly from arguing:



If you're going to lie