Stage 4 Prime Weapon's Effect On Sortie
Stage 4 Prime Weapon's effect on Sortie
Is this true for Shield / Horn being upgraded to stage 4 as well?
I don't think anyone has tested a group with only horn or shield in the party, but it's quite safe to assume it works the same way.
Considering how instruments and shields are traditionally so different from the corresponding REMA weapons, I don't think it's an unreasonable question to ask. To say that they definitely work the same way is jumping to conclusions. I would expect them to, just because that would be the most annoying thing for them to do to us, but it is an assumption and not a logical deduction.
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Cerberus.Inept said: »
Considering how instruments and shields are traditionally so different from the corresponding REMA weapons, I don't think it's an unreasonable question to ask.
Weeew said: »
Just got a Mesosiderite from leaping lizzy... confirmed server first? Will post screenshots in the morning. Pretty tired from all the kiting.
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Cerberus.Inept said: »
Considering how instruments and shields are traditionally so different from the corresponding REMA weapons, I don't think it's an unreasonable question to ask. To say that they definitely work the same way is jumping to conclusions. I would expect them to, just because that would be the most annoying thing for them to do to us, but it is an assumption and not a logical deduction.
traditionally they upgrade the same and are on par at the time same as other weapons. The only difference is not having to camp NMs before gathering abyssea items for empyreans and not having a multi tier afterglow effect based on TP.
Your initial question would be essentially the same as asking "Does anything think having a Dynamis Horn will give me +2 songs outside of Dynamis" when relics came out.
IGDC said: »
traditionally they upgrade the same and are on par at the time same as other weapons. The only difference is not having to camp NMs before gathering abyssea items for empyreans and not having a multi tier afterglow effect based on TP.
Your initial question would be essentially the same as asking "Does anything think having a Dynamis Horn will give me +2 songs outside of Dynamis" when relics came out.
Your initial question would be essentially the same as asking "Does anything think having a Dynamis Horn will give me +2 songs outside of Dynamis" when relics came out.
I'm not asking if the non-weapon primes do something that they strictly do not list on their item description. I'm asking if they work in an unexpected way with this new mechanic that we don't have precedent for. My question is essentially the same as asking "Will having Duban let me into the final TVR fight" and the answer there is no, it will not. The shield and instrument do not allow entry to those fights. That indicates that the system sees them differently. (And a good thing, too, because it would be a pain to try and get that last hit with a prime weapon without having one. Because the shield and instrument are not weapons.)
I'm not even holding on to a thin scrap of hope here. I'm a lot of muffins off from getting one yet. I'm just genuinely curious. Do they really think you deserve the hard mode mechanics without one of the proper weapons?
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Cerberus.Inept said: »
I'm just genuinely curious. Do they really think you deserve the hard mode mechanics without one of the proper weapons?
The weapon shouldn't matter here. The 'stage' you are on is what flags you to receive upgrade materials. They intended the difficulty to increase as you progress through the final stage so it stands to reason that would include all primes.
Cerberus.Inept said: »
Hey guys Oboro won't take Pluton to afterglow my Aegis instead of a prohibitive number of Umbral Marrow. What gives? Traditionally they upgrade the same and are on par at the time same [sic] as other weapons!
I'm not asking if the non-weapon primes do something that they strictly do not list on their item description. I'm asking if they work in an unexpected way with this new mechanic that we don't have precedent for. My question is essentially the same as asking "Will having Duban let me into the final TVR fight" and the answer there is no, it will not. The shield and instrument do not allow entry to those fights. That indicates that the system sees them differently. (And a good thing, too, because it would be a pain to try and get that last hit with a prime weapon without having one. Because the shield and instrument are not weapons.)
I'm not even holding on to a thin scrap of hope here. I'm a lot of muffins off from getting one yet. I'm just genuinely curious. Do they really think you deserve the hard mode mechanics without one of the proper weapons?
I'm not asking if the non-weapon primes do something that they strictly do not list on their item description. I'm asking if they work in an unexpected way with this new mechanic that we don't have precedent for. My question is essentially the same as asking "Will having Duban let me into the final TVR fight" and the answer there is no, it will not. The shield and instrument do not allow entry to those fights. That indicates that the system sees them differently. (And a good thing, too, because it would be a pain to try and get that last hit with a prime weapon without having one. Because the shield and instrument are not weapons.)
I'm not even holding on to a thin scrap of hope here. I'm a lot of muffins off from getting one yet. I'm just genuinely curious. Do they really think you deserve the hard mode mechanics without one of the proper weapons?
Pretty sure none who posts here will upgrade anything to stage 4 after the info of increased difficulty.
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SimonSes said: »
Pretty sure none who posts here will upgrade anything to stage 4 after the info of increased difficulty.
I think the real question is, how low are drop rates for the mesosiderite? Up to this point it's been easy to obtain -drites, but I suspected it to drop in final stage. If the rate is such that it takes you months to obtain 4 of them, there isn't much reason to delay it.
Seun said: »
SimonSes said: »
Pretty sure none who posts here will upgrade anything to stage 4 after the info of increased difficulty.
I think the real question is, how low are drop rates for the mesosiderite? Up to this point it's been easy to obtain -drites, but I suspected it to drop in final stage. If the rate is such that it takes you months to obtain 4 of them, there isn't much reason to delay it.
You assume they drop from bosses at all. I assume its 100% drop from empowered Aminon and only from it.
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I hope you're not disappointed.
Just to clarify, I don't assume anything other than increased difficulty in obtaining them compared to previous stages. If the difficulty of all NMs is increased, it wouldn't surprise me if they all had a chance to drop with Amonon being higher.
We'll see how it plays out I guess.
Just to clarify, I don't assume anything other than increased difficulty in obtaining them compared to previous stages. If the difficulty of all NMs is increased, it wouldn't surprise me if they all had a chance to drop with Amonon being higher.
We'll see how it plays out I guess.
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You assume they drop from bosses at all. I assume its 100% drop from empowered Aminon and only from it.
This is a possibility. It's been two weeks and we still have no confirmed reports of a mesosiderite drop from bosses. That's quite a lot of bosses killed and chests opened to not see a drop that on other stages you'd typically have about half a dozen of by this point.
It actually makes sense from a design standpoint. S-E designed aminon as the final boss in sortie, but up until now most groups really have no reason to fight him. He drops 30k galla which the top groups will go after (pre enrage), but for the average group it's just more efficient to go on an 8 boss run daily and not bother with him. Making him the final boss for stage 5 prime weapons would be just the type of thing they'd design around. And with the way bumba was designed at vengence 30 I wouldn't put it past them to have done exactly this. I'm certain they overlooked kaustra and never intended for us to beat bumba the way we're currently doing it. Whatever method they intended for bumba is probably not even possible, and it's possible aminon is the same deal. Time will tell, but the longer we go with no confirmed mesosiderite drop from bosses the bleaker the outlook becomes.
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moved the goalpost so far that they killed their game... lol
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The game has a history of A Hole bosses. Pandy Warden, Absolute Virtue, Tanaka....
Might as well just keep making them as placeholders for real content. We keep coming back.
Might as well just keep making them as placeholders for real content. We keep coming back.
Asura.Melliny said: »
I'm certain they overlooked kaustra and never intended for us to beat bumba the way we're currently doing it. Whatever method they intended for bumba is probably not even possible, and it's possible aminon is the same deal.
Same for Mboze.
I'd really like to know what their thought process was behind beating those 3 and what strategy they designed it around, assuming they had one and didn't just throw it on the wall to see what stuck.
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Asura.Melliny said: »
Quote:
You assume they drop from bosses at all. I assume its 100% drop from empowered Aminon and only from it.
This is a possibility. It's been two weeks and we still have no confirmed reports of a mesosiderite drop from bosses. That's quite a lot of bosses killed and chests opened to not see a drop that on other stages you'd typically have about half a dozen of by this point.
It actually makes sense from a design standpoint. S-E designed aminon as the final boss in sortie, but up until now most groups really have no reason to fight him. He drops 30k galla which the top groups will go after (pre enrage), but for the average group it's just more efficient to go on an 8 boss run daily and not bother with him. Making him the final boss for stage 5 prime weapons would be just the type of thing they'd design around. And with the way bumba was designed at vengence 30 I wouldn't put it past them to have done exactly this. I'm certain they overlooked kaustra and never intended for us to beat bumba the way we're currently doing it. Whatever method they intended for bumba is probably not even possible, and it's possible aminon is the same deal. Time will tell, but the longer we go with no confirmed mesosiderite drop from bosses the bleaker the outlook becomes.
I don't think empowered Aminon is unbeatable. It just probably won't be beatable in short time or as reliably to do it more than 4 times required for stones. Fighting area is very big, so I'm pretty sure some kind of kiting strategy will work. Stymie saboteur gravity II and tank kiting outside of TP move range and some ranged damage like RNG/drgs for example
I'm curious if Mischief's group has been making any sort of effort to kill enraged Aminon. We are still assuming (perhaps completely fairly, based on past actions by SE) that this is just a penalty.
What if the penalty for stage 4 only applies if you are not also holding 4 mesosiderate? What if aminon drops 100k gallimaufry(either by default, or in lieu of a mesosiderate after first 4)?
There is plenty of logical reason for mechanics like this to exist, everyone is just hung up on assuming it's a straight negative when there are still a lot of unknowns.
What if the penalty for stage 4 only applies if you are not also holding 4 mesosiderate? What if aminon drops 100k gallimaufry(either by default, or in lieu of a mesosiderate after first 4)?
There is plenty of logical reason for mechanics like this to exist, everyone is just hung up on assuming it's a straight negative when there are still a lot of unknowns.
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Asura.Melliny said: »
but for the average group it's just more efficient to go on an 8 boss run daily
I don't understand why people keep saying this.
It is definitely not much more efficient to do an 8 boss run.
If you can do an 8 boss run, you can do an Aminon + 4 boss (2 upstairs, 2 downstairs) run easily.
If you have the ability to beat aminon, it instantly becomes the best thing you can be doing in terms of muffins over time.
Edit: even Aminon + 2 bosses (1 up/1 down) is on par with an 8 boss run.
Edit2: Even if you frame it in terms of difficulty, Aminon is much easier mechanically than most of the basement bosses because of the strategy used to kill him. So once you get him on your rotation, your runs are smoother even. Only person it's harder on is the sch because now they have to manage all the perp buffs themselves instead of having a second sch around helping.
But it's not the best. So it's pointless to even enter.
Asura.Eiryl said: »
But it's not the best. So it's pointless to even enter.
What's not the best? What chu talkin bout Willis?
For me the biggest and only downside of Aminon in rotation is forcing mage setup (so you generally can't play with your stage 3 weapons beside staff. You can technically use something like dagger on RDM to make SCs on AECG, but its not exactly the same). Otherwise it is the best for both Galli and +1 cases and there is no really a room for an argument here.
SimonSes said: »
For me the biggest and only downside of Aminon in rotation is forcing mage setup (so you generally can't play with your stage 3 weapons beside staff. You can technically use something like dagger on RDM to make SCs on AECG, but its not exactly the same). Otherwise it is the best for both Galli and +1 cases and there is no really a room for an argument here.
That's a valid point, but the claim was it was more efficient to ignore aminon and do 8 boss only. And that claim is ubiquitous
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
Asura.Eiryl said: »
But it's not the best. So it's pointless to even enter.
What's not the best? What chu talkin bout Willis?
You're asking RMT who doesnt play the game. He's never stepped into Sortie (or Ody, or Dyna-D, or anything released in the last 8 yrs), and is just a troll.
It's more efficient to just quit ffxi than to play SEs game of artificial difficulty and preservation. Who cares about efficiency when it is going to take months regardless and RIP to the solo players (the majority of the population)
100k muffins cap for months just to remove the cap to 100m when their lies boiled over...
And now we live in total silence as SE pretends they put a bow at the end of FFXI... more like a noose.
If you never played FFXI and are thinking of playing - Just beat the stories. don't bother making Remas. and then leave. In fact... Go play on a private server... SE doesn't deserve your money.
100k muffins cap for months just to remove the cap to 100m when their lies boiled over...
And now we live in total silence as SE pretends they put a bow at the end of FFXI... more like a noose.
If you never played FFXI and are thinking of playing - Just beat the stories. don't bother making Remas. and then leave. In fact... Go play on a private server... SE doesn't deserve your money.
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Won't someone think of the solo players?! How are they supposed to get R30 Nyame gear, Dynamis [D] wave 3 clears, Aeonic weapons, oh and Prime weapons.
SE really needs to design this MMO with solo players in mind more often, it's really insane how they don't allow you to accomplish anything by yourself. What do they expect you to do, make friends? What a joke, these guys couldn't design their way out of a wet paper bag.
SE really needs to design this MMO with solo players in mind more often, it's really insane how they don't allow you to accomplish anything by yourself. What do they expect you to do, make friends? What a joke, these guys couldn't design their way out of a wet paper bag.
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Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
SE really needs to design this MMO with solo players in mind more often, it's really insane how they don't allow you to accomplish anything by yourself. What do they expect you to do, make friends? What a joke, these guys couldn't design their way out of a wet paper bag.
I don't speak idiot. sorry...
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Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
design this MMO with solo players in mind
Massively single-player online RPGs? Seems legit
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