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Stage 4 Prime Weapon's effect on Sortie
 Fenrir.Ahlen
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 227
By Fenrir.Ahlen 2023-08-16 12:23:19
Few more notes on Enraged Aminon now that we've done him a few more times:
-Letting him TP a few times to get Distract/Ooze on really doesn't take that long. While Void is up, 90% of his TP moves are fetter spawning ones that change his state. 2/6 of them (Torrential Pain, Demonfire) let you land Ooze, 2/6 of them (Blast of Reticence, Frozen Blood) let you land Distract. It only ever takes a couple minutes at most unless you're REALLY unlucky.
-Using Stymie at the beginning isn't recommended. Letting him TP is not very threatening at the beginning unless you don't have Seal, it shouldn't take very long to get Distract on this way, and if Distract does half-resist (this is possible, even with Stymie) you can be in a bad spot if COR has poor luck with WC/Cutting. Having to cycle TP moves to get Distract on is a LOT more painful at 20% than at 100%, the fetters will cover the entire arena.
-RDM and DRK can indeed use Occult Acumen to get extra TP, but I'd only ever use it with Impact. I'm not sure if it's something with Aminon specifically or Gaol TP suppression just has me biased, but he can get 1000 TP VERY quickly from just a couple of hits. Casting Impact for TP is definitely worth for both RDM and DRK, though - RDM gets about 900~950 TP, DRK can get over 2k with good sets. RDM could get more if you were ML45+ (Occult Acumen II trait from /DRK). DRK can get MP back with Origin and RDM has Convert, but otherwise both jobs are stuck with Aspir and Refresh to get MP back. Origin doesn't seem to fully drain Aminon's MP even if it's used the entire fight.
-Speaking of RDM...I was originally using Mercy Stroke under the assumption that, since I was 1-handed and nowhere near attack capped, it would win over Black Halo. Nope. Just use Black Halo.
-Two DRKs can probably work over DRK+BST, but again, he can get TP very fast. Sometimes Drainkiss is removing 700-800+ TP at once even with two people using Absorb-TP on cooldown. I don't know if it would be any faster, or by how much.
-Current Mesosiderite drop rate: 2/6. All but (maybe?) the first were with TH4.
Our latest kill was 21 minutes from pull to victory, with him TPing zero times after the initial debuffs. With the extra time, we've been doing ACEG bosses as well. For E and G, since there's no real healer and Triboulex is still enraged, the RUN takes a minute to spike hate then kites with Gravity II on while everyone else (with Dirge) beats on it. Slower than normal strategies, but it's functional. Gartell and Aita would probably end very badly until their enrages are removed. is it not possible to do 0 dmg spells if you don't apply impact? -Dint will be a lot easier to make spells do 0. This way and drk could still absorb agi / vit (if 2 drk ) so impacts not being there won't matter as much.
By Pantafernando 2023-08-16 12:55:51
Horn might be worth? Maybe someone can break down the maths better for me, but from my understanding Stage 3+ Neck is 19% PDL. Does 19% PDL on top tier content where you're not likely attack capped beat out on an additional Minuet or Herc Etude?
Extra minuet would range between +5 and +10% extra dmg.
About capping pdif, i believe it relies more on your setup.
GEO BRD COR 1h-ing would make average DD attack to 7k.
Even with geo nerf, in practice it only force you to resort to WS def down and steps to reach same effect. Stacking everything, probably would reduce mob def to below 1.5k
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 Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 280
By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2023-08-16 13:49:01
Origin is good for it, but you would probably floor Aminon mp pretty fast with it
I thought Origin wasn't a drain effect, but a convert damage effect?
It's an Aspir effect. It was tested by Deadlypanda outside of Sortie with stage 4 and he was able to floor MP on some Omen bosses with Origin.
So many likes on this incomplete answer lol. Are you saying it works like Energy Drain not Entropy?
It can't be just an "aspir effect". What about the hp? Does the mob have to have mp for the hp drain to work? Does it work on undead? Is real testing actually posted somewhere from a primary source?
Carbuncle.Maletaru
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1735
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2023-08-16 13:54:21
Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello said: »Origin is good for it, but you would probably floor Aminon mp pretty fast with it
I thought Origin wasn't a drain effect, but a convert damage effect?
It's an Aspir effect. It was tested by Deadlypanda outside of Sortie with stage 4 and he was able to floor MP on some Omen bosses with Origin.
So many likes on this incomplete answer lol. Are you saying it works like Energy Drain not Entropy?
It can't be just an "aspir effect". What about the hp? Does the mob have to have mp for the hp drain to work? Does it work on undead? Is real testing actually posted somewhere from a primary source?
They didn't answer those questions because those questions weren't asked. This isn't a dissertation on Origin, it's an answer to the question, is it a convert damage effect.
Mob has to have HP to drain HP, has to have MP to drain MP. Does not work on undead. If you doubt the sources, try it yourself I guess...You're talking to the primary sources, we've seen how it works with our eyeballs.
It works like Energy drain and Sanguine Blade, and nothing like Entropy.
[+]
Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 280
By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2023-08-16 13:59:20
Energy Drain and Sanguine Blade are not the same thing....
Energy Drain does not do dmg. You can Energy Drain a sleeping mob.
I assumed it was Catastrophe and Entropy combined.
Now it sounds like its Catastrophe and Energy Drain combined.
Do you get mp from mobs with no mp or undead?
Someone with actual knowledge want to respond?
Carbuncle.Maletaru
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1735
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2023-08-16 14:02:19
It's Energy Drain + Sanguine Blade, or Energy Drain + Catastrophe if you like
-You gain HP from the enemy, the enemy loses HP
-You gain MP from the enemy, the enemy loses MP
Neither of these effects work on Undead enemies.
Two people with actual knowledge have already responded. You're ignoring them and asking the same question again.
Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 280
By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2023-08-16 14:07:21
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »It's Energy Drain + Sanguine Blade, or Energy Drain + Catastrophe if you like
-You gain HP from the enemy, the enemy loses HP
-You gain MP from the enemy, the enemy loses MP
Neither of these effects work on Undead enemies.
Two people with actual knowledge have already responded. You're ignoring them and asking the same question again.
Fair enough lol.
To be clear. You are converting dmg to hp, not "draining" hp.
You can take more hp than the mob has but not more mp. Correct?
It makes sense it doesn't work on undead, neither does Catastrophe.
Carbuncle.Maletaru
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1735
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2023-08-16 14:29:30
Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello said: »To be clear. You are converting dmg to hp, not "draining" hp.
You can take more hp than the mob has but not more mp. Correct?
Never seen it used outside Sortie, so unclear on this one. We don't fight mobs with 1k HP remaining, while the DRK is missing 2k HP. Because the HP drain doesn't work on undead, I assume it's a drain, but maybe it's a damage conversion thing explicitly written to not work on undead. If someone has a couple HP sets and a stage 4 prime scythe, can check it on a level 4 rabbit.
By SimonSes 2023-08-16 15:02:02
-Two DRKs can probably work over DRK+BST, but again, he can get TP very fast. Sometimes Drainkiss is removing 700-800+ TP at once even with two people using Absorb-TP on cooldown. I don't know if it would be any faster, or by how much.
I guess if BST absorb 800 sometimes than it might be tough for second DRK to work, because second DRK will also means more TP feed with higher frequency WS. 2x absorb-TP from DRK can probably match 800TP, but 2x absorbTP recast on DRK is slightly higher than 30sec I think. You also need to consider absorb-TP will most likely be resisted rarely even at capped macc, while tp drainkiss cant be resisted. Unless someone will /smn too I guess.
By Pendragoon 2023-08-17 12:19:35
The 2h weapons seem to be stronger at stage3 with the prime WS than the strongest available weapons of their type.
Mumei on GKT hits harder than Fudo in Sortie at stage3 with or without buffs, so regardless if PDL is in play. With PDL and capped attack, a lot harder and more consistent.
Aria adds a lot when attack capped. So really depends if you do a lot of melee Sortie, what jobs you play most and so forth.
If you know which weapon you are getting, it's already stronger at stage3 and you do a lot of melee sortie, why not get it?
I disagree that it's Scythe or gtfo, that's simplistic. Origin is great but so are all the other 2h prime WS.
I have the stage 3 GKT, and R15 Masa. I'm not sure how you're getting more damage out of Mumei than Fudo. I run REMA BRD and Rostam COR (no GEO though), there's not a chance I do more with Mumei than Fudo unless, very specifically, I'm fighting the Waktza WK. For trash mobs, they seem relatively equal, but the swing damage is weaker with Kusanagi. (To be fair, I don't know the modifiers on Mumei, but based on all the other GKT WS and Kusanagi's bonus stats I would guess STR and possibly DEX.)
[+]
Fenrir.Jinxs
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 535
By Fenrir.Jinxs 2023-08-17 13:17:23
The 2h weapons seem to be stronger at stage3 with the prime WS than the strongest available weapons of their type.
Mumei on GKT hits harder than Fudo in Sortie at stage3 with or without buffs, so regardless if PDL is in play. With PDL and capped attack, a lot harder and more consistent.
Aria adds a lot when attack capped. So really depends if you do a lot of melee Sortie, what jobs you play most and so forth.
If you know which weapon you are getting, it's already stronger at stage3 and you do a lot of melee sortie, why not get it?
I disagree that it's Scythe or gtfo, that's simplistic. Origin is great but so are all the other 2h prime WS.
I have the stage 3 GKT, and R15 Masa. I'm not sure how you're getting more damage out of Mumei than Fudo. I run REMA BRD and Rostam COR (no GEO though), there's not a chance I do more with Mumei than Fudo unless, very specifically, I'm fighting the Waktza WK. For trash mobs, they seem relatively equal, but the swing damage is weaker with Kusanagi. (To be fair, I don't know the modifiers on Mumei, but based on all the other GKT WS and Kusanagi's bonus stats I would guess STR and possibly DEX.)
Could you expand upon the results you are getting with fudo vs mumei? How off are we talking?
What gear are you using for weaponskill during this?
We have a copy of what Ejin was getting and what gear he was wearing on this post
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/57318/prime-ws-information-testing-discussion
By Pendragoon 2023-08-17 14:57:59
The 2h weapons seem to be stronger at stage3 with the prime WS than the strongest available weapons of their type.
Mumei on GKT hits harder than Fudo in Sortie at stage3 with or without buffs, so regardless if PDL is in play. With PDL and capped attack, a lot harder and more consistent.
Aria adds a lot when attack capped. So really depends if you do a lot of melee Sortie, what jobs you play most and so forth.
If you know which weapon you are getting, it's already stronger at stage3 and you do a lot of melee sortie, why not get it?
I disagree that it's Scythe or gtfo, that's simplistic. Origin is great but so are all the other 2h prime WS.
I have the stage 3 GKT, and R15 Masa. I'm not sure how you're getting more damage out of Mumei than Fudo. I run REMA BRD and Rostam COR (no GEO though), there's not a chance I do more with Mumei than Fudo unless, very specifically, I'm fighting the Waktza WK. For trash mobs, they seem relatively equal, but the swing damage is weaker with Kusanagi. (To be fair, I don't know the modifiers on Mumei, but based on all the other GKT WS and Kusanagi's bonus stats I would guess STR and possibly DEX.)
Could you expand upon the results you are getting with fudo vs mumei? How off are we talking?
What gear are you using for weaponskill during this?
We have a copy of what Ejin was getting and what gear he was wearing on this post
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/57318/prime-ws-information-testing-discussion
Of course most of this is an eyeball test because I haven't parsed. I don't use Kusanagi on A/E boss (because darkness is a nono) Ejin's other results are on what I had called "trash mobs" Mumei > Mumei is only Gravitation.
In my runs, I don't spend a lot of time fighting trash, but Fudo > Fudo kills the ABCD trash I do fight. Kasha > Shoha > Fudo kills everything else, like EFGH trash. (Would similarly require 3-step Mumei to make darkness to kill EFGH trash.) So honestly, it could do just slightly better on single WS-basis, but it just isn't better for chaining or doesn't matter in the end. To avoid swapping and losing aftermath and all that, I stick to Masa most of the time.
Of the WK, besides the bird, are all weak or neutral to light, and are either strong to or neutral to Darkness. It's certainly worth it to swap to Kusanagi for the bird, so on E/F WK, I just fight the bird first or last.
Gear-wise, matching this set: I'm rank 20 on Nyame instead of 25/30. (I'm at work, so I don't have access to my info, but I'm fairly certain I use this same set for Mumei)
https://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/274964
Edit: I just want to say that I'm not regretful for getting Kusanagi. It's a great weapon and Stage 4 and 5 should be improvements on it. Just pointing out that it doesn't beat all other GKT options at stage 3.
By Dodik 2023-08-17 16:31:57
I think it does. I can post some numbers when I next go in.
Certainly don't see Fudo doing 70-80k in any regularity like I do with Mumei.
By Pendragoon 2023-08-17 18:18:06
I think it does. I can post some numbers when I next go in.
Certainly don't see Fudo doing 70-80k in any regularity like I do with Mumei.
Please include your gear.
Below is HM, Minuet 3/4/5, Blade Madrigal, not SV'd
SAM/DRK rolls
Can't say where my TP was for any of them except the first one being 3000tp, but I usually hold for ~2000tp (or whatever I have when the window is closing for the skillchain)
https://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/274964
SAM99/DRG57. This gear being used, except in Mumei set, I have Wakido Haidate +3 being used instead of Nyame
[Pendragoon] Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] 63131 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] 43906 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] 6943 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] 62055 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] 52395 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] 47955 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] 49979 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] 44061 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] 33829 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] 44985 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] 33707 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] 47902 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] 54913 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] 41751 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] 55481 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] 45875 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] 63811 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] 34705 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
[Pendragoon] 36115 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Flan
Plenty more in my log, this is just the first 20, not cherry picked. Later, 2 of them got up to high 60k. It's easy to cherry pick those and say "look! 69,170 Mumei, my Fudo never hits that!" (except it does sometimes)
Fenrir.Ahlen
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 227
By Fenrir.Ahlen 2023-08-17 18:36:03
-Two DRKs can probably work over DRK+BST, but again, he can get TP very fast. Sometimes Drainkiss is removing 700-800+ TP at once even with two people using Absorb-TP on cooldown. I don't know if it would be any faster, or by how much.
I guess if BST absorb 800 sometimes than it might be tough for second DRK to work, because second DRK will also means more TP feed with higher frequency WS. 2x absorb-TP from DRK can probably match 800TP, but 2x absorbTP recast on DRK is slightly higher than 30sec I think. You also need to consider absorb-TP will most likely be resisted rarely even at capped macc, while tp drainkiss cant be resisted. Unless someone will /smn too I guess. recast can be 12 seconds with valiance (high uptime).
By dontclickme 2023-08-17 18:41:42
why did you choose to test on flan?
By Pendragoon 2023-08-17 18:49:27
They are/were the only non-WK, non-boss, basement mobs I was going to fight. I usually wouldn't even fight them, not part of my run, but Botulus was in the flan room, and it takes 5 min for WK to pop after pulling it, so I had waiting time to burn.
I don't think the E.Flan take reduced damage. (Do they?) My Fudo's seem to do the same on them as H.fomor.
By dontclickme 2023-08-17 18:54:10
they also are 25% slashing resistant. hopefully you're not comparing the damage seen with mumei vs fudo (assuming you're referencing fudo's damage on a different neutral type mob) based on that.
By Pendragoon 2023-08-17 18:57:49
If they do, I'll try/report on H fomor next run then.
By SimonSes 2023-08-18 04:12:52
H fomors has massive def, which also varies a lot, based on their job and buffs they get from other fomors.
By Pendragoon 2023-08-18 15:21:15
These are the numbers from today's run. Same job, gear, songs as my previous post.
Sorry, I won't be testing for specific conditions, I don't have enough time to finale the ***out of something to make sure it doesn't have buffs. There's always some species/job/buff/debuff to blame for the numbers being up and down. So I'm just providing the numbers as they fall, with buff details as I can remember them. For example, I can tell you the COR rolls were SAM/DRK, I couldn't tell you what number they rolled. SV was on during the bold numbers. (When fighting slugs, 1st Waktza = 5 songs. D Fomor = HM, Min4/5, Mad. 2nd Waktza fight had Yaegasumi + 5 songs SV, H Fomor = 4 songs HM, Min 3/4/5, until SV ended, then HM, Min4/5, Mad.)
[Pendragoon] 80573 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Slug
[Pendragoon] 55735 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Slug
[Pendragoon] 62821 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Slug
[Pendragoon] 57821 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Slug
[Pendragoon] 50575 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Slug
[Pendragoon] 79586 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Slug
[Pendragoon] Tachi: Mumei (Miss) ¨ Esurient?Slug
[Pendragoon] 48769 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Slug
[Pendragoon] 56115 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Slug
[Pendragoon] 44779 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Slug
[Pendragoon] 83756 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Slug
[Pendragoon] 56664 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Esurient?Slug
[Pendragoon] 35452 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Waktza
[Pendragoon] 28308 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Waktza
[Pendragoon] 41859 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Waktza
[Pendragoon] 42553 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Waktza
(Forgot that I had Kusanagi on, so I was using Fudo for the Deleterious and Demi.WAR. Now that I think about it, this is why A boss was harder than usual...)
[Pendragoon] 58423 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Demisang?Monk
[Pendragoon] 46932 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Demisang?Monk
[Pendragoon] 26814 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Demisang?Monk
[Pendragoon] 61199 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Demisang?White?Mage
[Pendragoon] 34367 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Demisang?White?Mage
[Pendragoon] 46960 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Demisang?White?Mage
(Switched back to Masa for the D.BLM, D.RDM, D.THF, as Gravitation wasn't allowing two WS kills.)
[Pendragoon] 41244 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Waktza
[Pendragoon] 50163 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Waktza
[Pendragoon] 55757 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Waktza
[Pendragoon] 57054 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Waktza
[Pendragoon] 79491 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Dark?Knight
[Pendragoon] 73367 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Dark?Knight
[Pendragoon] 70386 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Ninja
[Pendragoon] Tachi: Mumei (Miss) ¨ Haughty?Ninja
[Pendragoon] 48873 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Ninja
[Pendragoon] 8719 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Ninja
[Pendragoon] 43437 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Ninja
[Pendragoon] 40474 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Ninja
[Pendragoon] 79025 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Samurai
[Pendragoon] 64543 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Samurai
[Pendragoon] 52113 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Samurai
[Pendragoon] 42212 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Samurai
[Pendragoon] 65950 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Dragoon
[Pendragoon] 68974 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Dragoon
[Pendragoon] 48280 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Dragoon
[Pendragoon] 41966 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Bard
[Pendragoon] 62366 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Bard
[Pendragoon] 39789 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Bard
[Pendragoon] 35929 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Bard
[Pendragoon] 41948 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Paladin
[Pendragoon] 39183 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Paladin
[Pendragoon] 65845 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Paladin
[Pendragoon] 49825 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Paladin
[Pendragoon] 51312 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Beastmaster
[Pendragoon] 50178 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Beastmaster
[Pendragoon] 59472 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Beastmaster
[Pendragoon] 68858 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Ranger
[Pendragoon] 55845 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Ranger
[Pendragoon] 42296 Tachi: Mumei ¨ Haughty?Ranger
I still don't see a consistent 70-80k, but they're better than my flan numbers. I'll admit I'm less inclined to say it's not the best weapon in sortie, but I would still struggle with my route if I used it exclusively, because of A/E boss and certain WK being strong to dark. Mumei numbers are good, it's just that gravitation sucks compared to light, and a good chunk of my SAM's damage comes from skillchains. YMMV with a different route. I'll also point out that I use Sylvie and Monberaux. A real GEO and/or RDM/trust with dia 3 would surely boost these numbers.
Fenrir.Ahlen
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 227
By Fenrir.Ahlen 2023-08-27 20:50:19
Ive been doing hard modes for melee method the past few days multibox.
Setup : Pld (run might be better this mule has better geared pld), rdm ,cor ,geo, bard , whm
I was able to just kite aita like the old trib kite methods. With gravity 2 + indi grav (bolstered) he didnt move super fast. He got within 20 yalms and didn't vivi me (when moving to diff corner he gets closer, hes very slow with indi grav / grav). If whm was setup for DD it would have been possible to kill before he got from 1 corner to the other. Rdm black halo / geo judgment (AM 3 idris ) / bard and cor savage. Make sure to proc him for each ability he does when tank builds hate at start ect. I used dirge on DDs so less risk of pulling hate.
Trib just gravity + indi grav kite and have geo flash nova rdm seraph blade cor hot shot bard do burning or something else to just reset ws wall.
Dhartok isn't much harder at all can do normal melee methods.
I haven't tried out gartell yet multibox slows me down a bit.
Totally seems possible to do an 8 boss run melee method for the hardmode bosses but since it's going away soon who cares I guess?
Ragnarok.Gennss
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 52
By Ragnarok.Gennss 2023-08-27 21:52:47
Ive been doing hard modes for melee method the past few days multibox.
Setup : Pld (run might be better this mule has better geared pld), rdm ,cor ,geo, bard , whm
I was able to just kite aita like the old trib kite methods. With gravity 2 + indi grav (bolstered) he didnt move super fast. He got within 20 yalms and didn't vivi me (when moving to diff corner he gets closer, hes very slow with indi grav / grav). If whm was setup for DD it would have been possible to kill before he got from 1 corner to the other. Rdm black halo / geo judgment (AM 3 idris ) / bard and cor savage. Make sure to proc him for each ability he does when tank builds hate at start ect. I used dirge on DDs so less risk of pulling hate.
Trib just gravity + indi grav kite and have geo flash nova rdm seraph blade cor hot shot bard do burning or something else to just reset ws wall.
Dhartok isn't much harder at all can do normal melee methods.
I haven't tried out gartell yet multibox slows me down a bit.
Totally seems possible to do an 8 boss run melee method for the hardmode bosses but since it's going away soon who cares I guess?
Going away soon?
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By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2023-08-27 23:35:00
meaning there won't be any need or benefit to running hard mode "regular" bosses once the option to choose is installed. Most are expecting the fastest methods will be to build your Aminon pop in regular mode, and then on a different run select hard and do Aminon just for your Mesos....which as far as I'm aware hasn't been beaten in either pre- or post- stage 4 with traditional melee techniques.- not counting TP denial and limited WSs for damage; by traditional I'm mostly referring to engaging.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-08-27 23:44:44
There won't even be a hard mode for EFGH
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2023-08-28 01:30:10
We need to know how things will work on the september patch.
As far as we know from Fujito's post there's gonna be a "Normal" and a "Hard" mode option given to the party leader when entering Sortie, right?
Normal Mode:
Bosses are regular version
Aminon is enraged and also has an additional -25% DT
Hard Mode:
Bosses are the enraged version
Aminon is his old regular unenraged version
Now of course it makes sense to do Sortie in Normal Mode, build up Aminon pops, then pop Aminon in Hard mode to get Mesosiderites in a slighbtly easier way, just like someone said a few posts above.
Who knows if this will work though? Just because Fujito said what he said, doesn't necessarily mean things will be exactly that way.
Furthermore we still don't know if "regular" Aminon will drop Meso and if the pops built in "normal" mode will work in "hard" mode. I think they will honestly but really, who knows?
Fenrir.Velner
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By Fenrir.Velner 2023-08-28 02:26:57
From Fujito's message, it appears there will only be a "Normal" and "Hard" toggle for Aminon himself. The E-H "enraged" basement bosses will fully cease to exist. Get 'em before they're gone forever!
[+]
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-08-28 02:30:06
Yes, he outright said they're removing the hard mode for EFGH because adding a hard mode zone for them is pointless as there's no reason to go out of your way to fight them (essentially his words). They're adding a toggle for Aminon when you hit the ?# Gadget.
Quote: Even if we were to add a difficulty selection toggle for the notorious monsters in Lower Sortie E-H like with the last boss, the last bosses’ toggle would be independent of the individual HMs, so there would be no reason for players to go out of their way to defeat “hard mode” NMs. Simply removing their adjusted behavior is the more sensible option. Quote: We will add an option for players to choose hard/normal mode difficulty when entering the #? boss area in cases where one or more players possess a stage 4 Prime Weapon.
Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2023-08-28 02:38:41
What's the point of Normal/Hard for Aminon only then? I guess the normal won't drop Mesosiderites? Because otherwise there wouldn't be a goal for such a toggle, right?
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-08-28 02:39:57
Yes. Only hard mode will drop Mesosiderite.
Quote: Hard Mode:
Aminon’s behavior will change and he will gain 25% damage reduction
Materials needed to upgrade Prime Weapons will have a chance to drop when he is defeated.
Normal Mode:
Aminon’s behavior will not change.
Materials needed to upgrade Prime Weapons will not drop.
This post isn't even that old!
Since they're also buffing hard mode aminon at this time, I do wonder if the Meso drop rate will be increased as well.
EDIT: Most of the information in this thread is now outdated, as the EFGH boss enrages have been removed and Aminon is now a toggle. I'm leaving it up so people can see what happened, though.
So, I posted yesterday in the Sortie main thread about how some of the basement bosses had changed AI after acquiring a Stage 4 Prime Weapon. We went in again tonight to test the rest of them, and...well...this is bad. It's bad enough that I felt it justified its own thread so more people can see it.
TL;DR Do not upgrade your Stage 4 Prime Weapon until you are finished with acquiring Gallimaufry, or be prepared to tank the Galli rates for you and any group you join as soon as you get it.
First off, a few commonalities - despite the basement bosses getting harder, the rewards are completely unchanged. 10k Gallimaufry per boss, no guaranteed Case+1, no Mesosiderite (this is probably luck based). Second, actually equipping the Prime Weapon is irrelevant, the bosses are harder if anyone has the Stage 4 anywhere in their inventory. It might be the case that it only looks at the person entering Sortie to determine the AI (both times our party leader had a Stage 4), but that's unlikely. Finally, the base stats of each enemy seem unchanged, it's only their AI that gets altered.
Now, on to the specific bosses. We have recordings of all of the new enrage mechanics, in case anyone's skeptical about all of this. There may be other changes, but these are the ones we've seen. This is all mage strategy, too, so YMMV if you use melee strategy.
EDIT 7/15: Updated information on new mechanics based on more runs.
Dhartok - Uses Cesspool at somewhere between 50-65% HP. No other changes.
Gartell - Enters double hands mode at 65~66% and 30~33% HP, and stays in it for about 3 minutes each time. Bind works from a RDM fairly easily in this mode, but all damage gets tanked and his damage output skyrockets, so it's basically a forced staring contest eating your time while waiting. Gravity seems to work once, then resists badly. We don't know how to break double hands mode other than waiting.
Triboulex - Uses Setting the Stage at around 75% HP, and more times at lower %s. You can still avoid Setting the Stage going off by kiting him. There might be a Skillchain mechanic that also triggers it based off of previous runs, but it's consistently gone off at 75% HP so save yourself the trouble and just Gravity kite him.
Aita - Uses Vivisection at around 65~66% HP, and again at around 32~33% HP. These uses reset the 3 minute timer. There seems to be a mechanic to lower its damage based on repeatedly hitting him with the element he is weak to, but we don't fully understand it yet.
And last, and certainly worst...
Aminon - 10 seconds after using Bane of Tartarus, Aminon will now instantly use Incessant Void again, regardless of TP. After upgrading to Stage 4, the Absorb-TP strategy is IMPOSSIBLE. Anyone who tried to fight this thing pre-Absorb strategy knows that it's an absolute disaster of a fight, so Aminon basically doesn't exist for our group anymore.
I'm honestly speechless. The fact that the bosses are this much worse for bullshit reasons, there's seemingly no way to opt out of it after upgrading a weapon, there are no extra rewards beyond a worthless -drite we haven't even seen yet, and there was ZERO indication that this would happen prior to upgrading?! There wasn't even a chat message or any visual indication the bosses are buffed until our group got blindsided by Vivisection at 70%!
The worst part, though? Not everyone in our group even HAS a Stage 4 Prime Weapon! So, unless it only counts the person who enters the group (which, in that case...why?!), that means that if you upgrade to Stage 4, you're destroying the Gallimaufry potential of ANY group you join! Truly, this is one of the most severe case of punishing the player for upgrading an item I've ever seen.
That's why I'm making this a separate topic I guess - making sure as many people see this as possible. Our group was the first to upgrade to Stage 4, and we're paying the price for it now. Spread the word: either keep your Prime Weapons at Stage 3 (and thus be unable to use their WS outside of Sortie), or tank your Gallimaufry rate. What a fun choice that is......
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