What's Good About FFXI.

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What's good about FFXI.
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By SimonSes 2021-10-22 09:26:02
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alzeerffxi said: »
i really just want a official 75 FFXI server i know people will bash me for saying that, you barely socialize in this game, and 90% of yells are Mercenary's or RMT that's one of the bad things about it right now.

Why you think it would be different in official 75 server?
You think RMT wouldn't be there too? or merc? You think every possible NM that drops anything good wouldn't be constantly claimed by bots? Don't be naive please.

EDIT: Not to mention hacks like pos hack give FAR bigger advantage in 75 cap.
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By Jetackuu 2021-10-22 09:27:27
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Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
remove PlayOnline
Maybe I'm a bit nostalgic for what it could have been but I'd like to see them actually update it. But too little too late now I'm afraid for SE.
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By Mattelot 2021-10-22 09:33:04
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Asura.Vyre said: »
The challenge in XIV's dungeon stopped being a thing really after they nerfed Pharos Sirius in 2014. Too many crybabies about the difficulty. Me, Shiggles, Dameion, and Kalila did it with x3 DPS and SCH prior to the nerf.

Dungeons were never where FFXIV's challenging endgame lay though. It's in the raids and extreme trials. At first the raids were a tailored experience. Then the development team got mad that Second Coil got beaten in a week by world first hardcores, so they invented Savage specifically with fight design made to counter the strats they'd beaten Second Coil with. Talk about dev salt.

Come Heavensward, they decided there was story mode raid and Savage mode raid. Savage mode raids are not facerolls at all. They takes statics several weeks to months at a time, depending on raiding frequency and player skill. In particular, the Heavensward Savage raid tiers nearly killed raiding in FFXIV because they were too hard. You can't really speak to the difficulty of FFXIV endgame unless you're talking about at least Savage. Now they've got Ultimates though, which means they pretty much put less work in Savage. Every Savage has been easier than the last, starting in Stormblood, with some fights taking exception to that.


Yeah, savage raids were a roller coaster but from my experience, they've always been the easier of the "hardest" content compared to all the MMOs I've played.

Even with Ultimates, you don't seem to get that sense of satisfaction for some reason. Then again, I only speak for myself. Some of the rumors I'm hearing about Endwalker raid changes sound promising outside of of being a healer.
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-10-22 09:39:13
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Jetackuu said: »
Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
remove PlayOnline
Maybe I'm a bit nostalgic for what it could have been but I'd like to see them actually update it. But too little too late now I'm afraid for SE.
I agree, I was just trying to be realistic. Maybe we'd get lucky and they'd add a PlayOnline theme as an option for the login screen, or a path you could take that would emulate the software (though just not have it be mandatory).
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By alzeerffxi 2021-10-22 10:18:50
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SimonSes said: »
alzeerffxi said: »
i really just want a official 75 FFXI server i know people will bash me for saying that, you barely socialize in this game, and 90% of yells are Mercenary's or RMT that's one of the bad things about it right now.

Why you think it would be different in official 75 server?
You think RMT wouldn't be there too? or merc? You think every possible NM that drops anything good wouldn't be constantly claimed by bots? Don't be naive please.

EDIT: Not to mention hacks like pos hack give FAR bigger advantage in 75 cap.

As if there's no rmt now.
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2021-10-22 10:22:21
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Asura.Vyre said: »
Ragnarok.Ghishlain said: »
I will admit, do miss the thrill of being able to solo content and seeing how far one can take a job.

*nudges FFXIV BLU towards you*

Pssst, you can solo normal mode Stormblood raids and even Lakshmi Extreme. Dungeons too!

Yeah, but that's irrelevant content.
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By Asura.Vyre 2021-10-22 10:43:56
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Mattelot said: »
Asura.Vyre said: »
The challenge in XIV's dungeon stopped being a thing really after they nerfed Pharos Sirius in 2014. Too many crybabies about the difficulty. Me, Shiggles, Dameion, and Kalila did it with x3 DPS and SCH prior to the nerf.

Dungeons were never where FFXIV's challenging endgame lay though. It's in the raids and extreme trials. At first the raids were a tailored experience. Then the development team got mad that Second Coil got beaten in a week by world first hardcores, so they invented Savage specifically with fight design made to counter the strats they'd beaten Second Coil with. Talk about dev salt.

Come Heavensward, they decided there was story mode raid and Savage mode raid. Savage mode raids are not facerolls at all. They takes statics several weeks to months at a time, depending on raiding frequency and player skill. In particular, the Heavensward Savage raid tiers nearly killed raiding in FFXIV because they were too hard. You can't really speak to the difficulty of FFXIV endgame unless you're talking about at least Savage. Now they've got Ultimates though, which means they pretty much put less work in Savage. Every Savage has been easier than the last, starting in Stormblood, with some fights taking exception to that.


Yeah, savage raids were a roller coaster but from my experience, they've always been the easier of the "hardest" content compared to all the MMOs I've played.

Even with Ultimates, you don't seem to get that sense of satisfaction for some reason. Then again, I only speak for myself. Some of the rumors I'm hearing about Endwalker raid changes sound promising outside of of being a healer.
Oh, yeah? What's the hardest content in all of the MMOs you've played?
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By Asura.Vyre 2021-10-22 10:45:13
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ScaevolaBahamut said: »
Asura.Vyre said: »
Ragnarok.Ghishlain said: »
I will admit, do miss the thrill of being able to solo content and seeing how far one can take a job.

*nudges FFXIV BLU towards you*

Pssst, you can solo normal mode Stormblood raids and even Lakshmi Extreme. Dungeons too!

Yeah, but that's irrelevant content.
For job mastery it isn't. You solo any of those on BLU, and you'll be all set to work with it on any role in BLU raiding. Which can net you the Morbol mount. Tons of fun too.
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By Mattelot 2021-10-22 10:55:49
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Asura.Vyre said: »
Oh, yeah? What's the hardest content in all of the MMOs you've played?

The top 2 are mythic WoW raids and the original RO MVPs. Now, I could also say some of the 75 content in this game such as when CoP was new, trying to kill wyrms.

I should add though, these are purely subjective. There are a lot of variables to each. If the group you roll with in one game is extremely geared and skilled but the group you roll with in another game is just decent, it can give the illusion that one is more challenging. This is something I've seen in every game I've played where I've attempted the same content with different groups.
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By SimonSes 2021-10-22 11:18:32
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alzeerffxi said: »
SimonSes said: »
alzeerffxi said: »
i really just want a official 75 FFXI server i know people will bash me for saying that, you barely socialize in this game, and 90% of yells are Mercenary's or RMT that's one of the bad things about it right now.

Why you think it would be different in official 75 server?
You think RMT wouldn't be there too? or merc? You think every possible NM that drops anything good wouldn't be constantly claimed by bots? Don't be naive please.

EDIT: Not to mention hacks like pos hack give FAR bigger advantage in 75 cap.

As if there's no rmt now.

I feel seriously trolled right now. Your response to what I wrote has completely no sense at all. I said RMT, botters and Merc are in current game, but they will also be on 75 server, if they will ever lunch it. You responded that RMT are now too.

Honestly I feel like asking if you like red or blue and you response with "yes"
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By Shiva.Thorny 2021-10-22 11:19:33
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There are RMT on actual private servers, there would 100% be RMT on an official 75 server if it even got enough players to sustain itself. They'd be all sorts of OP too, since we already have the entire game automated and worst case just need to tailor a few things to match the 75 client.

RMT would have the first kill of everything relevant and keep it on lock from then on.
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By RadialArcana 2021-10-22 11:39:04
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RMT can't really lock stuff down, at least not long term.

If you start doing annoying stuff you do get mass reported and they do start banning. RMT just wanna make money, they don't actively look to get banned or antagonize people.

Aside from anything else, the people buying are often similar to the ones camping this stuff so it's counter productive to annoy your customers.
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By Mattelot 2021-10-22 11:54:27
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I think what was meant by locking down things was that they'll flood their 50 accounts there 24/7, so they'll always have ToD. So your odds of getting something will be slim to none.

I cannot speak for RMT now as they're even less of an issue after the sparks nerf but in the 75 era, they used to MPK people (or attempt to) in order to get those NM kills.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2021-10-22 13:39:12
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Mattelot said: »
Asura.Vyre said: »
Oh, yeah? What's the hardest content in all of the MMOs you've played?

The top 2 are mythic WoW raids and the original RO MVPs. Now, I could also say some of the 75 content in this game such as when CoP was new, trying to kill wyrms.

I should add though, these are purely subjective. There are a lot of variables to each. If the group you roll with in one game is extremely geared and skilled but the group you roll with in another game is just decent, it can give the illusion that one is more challenging. This is something I've seen in every game I've played where I've attempted the same content with different groups.

Agree, definitely subjective. Echo and Limit have been having a blast raiding in XIV and it has not been trivial for them. They're two of the best world first guilds that WoW has to offer.
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By Mattelot 2021-10-22 13:51:58
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I would honestly prefer to see guilds like Nihilium do this stuff but as it is, will never happen.
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By Finbar 2021-10-22 14:16:10
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If I had to distill what I prefer about FFXI into just a few points:

- Equip change in battle. This is easily one of the most identifiable traits of FFXI compared to other MMOs, in that most MMOs deliberately avoid it. Thematically it makes no sense at all (who's changing their pants in battle? too much beer the night before?), and mechanically speaking it requires gear to have a wide diversity of stats, which is much harder to balance. But who needs balance when you can gear one of the twenty-two other jobs instead?

The sheer amount of gear sets possible because of gear swaps leads to a min/maxing dream game, and accordingly gives gear goals that can last for literal years. There's nearly always something to work on and the sense of powercreep, despite a horizontal gearing system, is immensely satisfying.

- Speaking of horizontal gearing, that's my monumental positive number two. FFXI isn't alone here (Guild Wars does the same, I believe), but it helps make the above point even more salient, because there's long-term goals that are given value by not being outdated every few months. By contrast, the ultimate weapons of FFXIV are used for achievements and glamour. Relics have seen better days, but overall RMEA in FFXI are still very relevant and are likely to stay relevant, and it would surprise no one if they were upgraded even further in the years to come. This both gives us new content to work towards without invalidating the work we've already done.

The gearing has felt a bit more vertically oriented in the last year with HTB sets and Ody sets, but plenty of old gear is still relevant which makes old content still relevant. That's another positive of the horizontal gearing system, in that content manages to stay relevant instead of replacing content again and again. I have to ding this a little bit, because this game could sorely use more NEW content, or even revamped old content again, but it's still nice to have a reason to do a mix of content by doing old content that isn't random dungeons.

- The battle mechanics. I could go in a few directions here. The combat is slow compared to most games, which makes it more tactical and often more relaxing compared to busier MMOs. The various sets we can build also means that jobs have a wide variety of abilities they can well utilize, especially in tandem with subjobs. What I find most impressive about those two facts taken in tandem is the wide varieties of strategies able to be employed to take down content in FFXI. Take last month's frog ambuscade. The fight is designed to limit cookie-cutter job combinations, but in so doing it worked to create unique strategies that don't involve avoiding those jobs. PUP is the least inspired: distance between you and the target to avoid the AoE. RDM's could be used to avoid giving it TP with enspells. MNK and SAM could use SB sets with a Mewing SMN to keep the TP low enough and kill it before it can AoE. Or just obey the intentions of the fight and avoid the jobs that trigger the AoE altogether. What other MMO has that kind of range of strats to approach a fight in so many different ways?

Some points are inevitably dinged when RDM can complete some VD fights that other jobs can barely do on E, or when a six person group with SMN can take down content that was meant for an alliance, but it's hard not to view the sheer quantity of various strategies for fights in the game to be an asset for the game overall.

- And for a bonus point, I love how opaque the game has historically been. We're in an era where most mechanics are understood, but for a long time we didn't even have a concrete idea of how enmity worked in the game. It took diligent testing by various members of community to unearth much of the math behind the game's many mechanics, which was wonderful to watch unfold over the years.
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By Foxfire 2021-10-22 15:00:48
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RadialArcana said: »
23. I like that the game will not be replacing pictures of mithra with bowls of fruit or pandering to modern day SJW issues, the developers just want to make content and not push an agenda.
this is really *** funny to me because nobody seriously gives a ***about the lone low-res titty painting on WoW and that change does absolutely nothing to affect the game experience

don't conflate being butthurt about wanting to defend a problematic company with *** up work culture with "pandering to an agenda" lmfao

besides, ffxi is arguably better about female armor because it doesn't go out of its way to make every female variant skimpy, but it also doesn't shy away from armors that are skimpy, incl. for men (subligars, harnesses, wtv).

personally i like that even though the combat is somewhat dated, being able to swap into specific gear to min-max your abilities/damage in every job, for all sorts of situations incl. those not generally expected of your job archetype allows the systems to feel much more complex and deep than a lot of modern MMOs that I haven't quite felt an equivalent replacement for
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-10-22 15:11:42
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A lot of people say FFXI has slow-paced combat. And while I used to believe that, I'm not sure I still do. A player still has to be vigilant and hit their abilities and spells at the correct time. The reason it feels slower is because of autoattacking.

FFXI automates the busywork of combat, wherein a lot of other games use a barrage of "global cooldown" abilities that effectively achieve the exact same goal. Knowing when to interrupt your flow of white damage is a skill shared between every MMORPG. But by automating white damage, it allows players to spend that time doing other things, such as communicating.
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By SimonSes 2021-10-22 15:16:15
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Whats slow paced in FFXI during fight is moving. Unless you have flee speed hack and ja0wait lol. There is no dashes, evades by moving etc
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-10-22 15:18:10
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SimonSes said: »
Whats slow paced in FFXI during fight is moving. Unless you have flee speed hack and ja0wait lol. There is no dashes, evades by moving etc
True. The game lacks a lot of mobility, a design choice I appreciate.
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By Asura.Viska 2021-10-22 15:19:36
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Adds some nice immersion.
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By Odin.Foxmulder 2021-10-22 15:19:50
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RadialArcana said: »
RMT can't really lock stuff down, at least not long term.

This is a post made in jest, right?

HNMLS in 75 era were already selling desirable drops to the highest bidder. It might not have been common knowledge to casual players, but it 100% happened.

Now reduce your group down to ~1-3 actual players tops, get the drops they need to be more proficient, and then sell everything that falls afterwards.

You don't think someone who RMTs wouldn't get in on that? To sell King drops to Johnny McNoob, armed with papa's plastic?
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By Ragnarok.Ghishlain 2021-10-22 15:36:52
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Asura.Vyre said: »
Ragnarok.Ghishlain said: »
I will admit, do miss the thrill of being able to solo content and seeing how far one can take a job.

*nudges FFXIV BLU towards you*

Pssst, you can solo normal mode Stormblood raids and even Lakshmi Extreme. Dungeons too!

Funny enough, I am not a fan of how BLU is designed in FFXIV xD

I understand what it was meant to be, something that breaks the holy trinity and let's the player kinda go nuts with the game on content that is no longer relevant and I respect the decision. But because, by developer design, BLU is meant to break the core foundation on how XIV is played, I don't find it appealing at all because it's the developers encouraging the player to break the core foundation of the game.

In contrast with XI soloing, you, as the player, are the one breaking a core foundation of the game by doing things that are intended to be handled by a group at least 6 people. And when I mean solo, I mean true solo and not using any Trusts to assist you. Those true solos are what brings the strengths of any job to the forefront while mitigating the weaknesses they may have as best as possible. Those were fun to optimize for on quite a few levels and it's fun to see how to take a job in a journey that it was never intended to take.
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By RadialArcana 2021-10-22 15:40:35
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Foxfire said: »
this is really *** funny to me because nobody seriously gives a ***about the lone low-res titty painting on WoW and that change does absolutely nothing to affect the game experience

don't conflate being butthurt about wanting to defend a problematic company with *** up work culture with "pandering to an agenda" lmfao

I don't really care about wow, I'm just making a point I'm glad they aren't doing this stupid crap here. Leave the game as it is.

SimonSes said: »
Whats slow paced in FFXI during fight is moving.

I've played games with telegraphing and although it can be fun in the short term it gets old if it's overused (and they do tend to overuse it to a ridiculous level, to where you're forced to move constantly). On an MMORPG it gets real annoying imo since you're playing it a lot.

I liked it on some games, I would be mortified if they added it on XI. I get mad from knockback or stuff that moves me in any way, so the thought of having to constantly move out of obnoxious red boxes on the floor would probably make me quit.
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By RadialArcana 2021-10-22 15:50:14
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They had movement on last months Ambsucade, running out of range of Odins attack and it was a pita.
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By Bahamut.Negan 2021-10-22 16:05:45
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RadialArcana said: »
I've played games with telegraphing and although it can be fun in the short term it gets old if it's overused (and they do tend to overuse it to a ridiculous level, to where you're forced to move constantly)
Man. This is 100% on. The first time I quit XIV was because of this.
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By RadialArcana 2021-10-22 16:16:58
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This has nothing to do with the topic really but I saw this picture yesterday again and I remember seeing it ages ago and being excited at the cool stuff being shown.

Chocbo race confirmed.

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By Asura.Vyre 2021-10-22 16:36:15
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Ragnarok.Ghishlain said: »
Asura.Vyre said: »
Ragnarok.Ghishlain said: »
I will admit, do miss the thrill of being able to solo content and seeing how far one can take a job.

*nudges FFXIV BLU towards you*

Pssst, you can solo normal mode Stormblood raids and even Lakshmi Extreme. Dungeons too!

Funny enough, I am not a fan of how BLU is designed in FFXIV xD

I understand what it was meant to be, something that breaks the holy trinity and let's the player kinda go nuts with the game on content that is no longer relevant and I respect the decision. But because, by developer design, BLU is meant to break the core foundation on how XIV is played, I don't find it appealing at all because it's the developers encouraging the player to break the core foundation of the game.

In contrast with XI soloing, you, as the player, are the one breaking a core foundation of the game by doing things that are intended to be handled by a group at least 6 people. And when I mean solo, I mean true solo and not using any Trusts to assist you. Those true solos are what brings the strengths of any job to the forefront while mitigating the weaknesses they may have as best as possible. Those were fun to optimize for on quite a few levels and it's fun to see how to take a job in a journey that it was never intended to take.

Ehh, the thing about that is, forever in FFXI's history there are jobs that just aren't good for solo.

Sure, you could try your best, and you could still solo something that someone claimed you'd never solo on say... Warrior. By playing in an atypical way. But the jobs that did the best solo were those that just had innate power that other jobs did not. Generally speaking, jobs with magic.

In that regard, FFXI solos never broke the mold of the game, because mages still have the most innate power due to spells(not to be confused with highest DPS). The only other way to increase said powers and range of abilities was via subjob alteration and acquisition of niche gear. Again, not breaking the mold of the game.

BLU in XIV is the same, but the contrast is a lot more obvious. I get why you don't like it, but it actually doesn't break the core foundation of the game completely. When you raid on it, you have to adjust how particular mechanics go, because they are set to interact with actual roles, never mimicked ones. Since BLU are all DPS, this means everyone in everyone fight has to know the mechs to a T for every role for role split fight mechs (Gavel) or the BLUs have to be good enough to kill the boss before those mechs happen. Sometimes they cannot.

It also gets skills that other jobs don't, with very cool effects that really push the limit of skill design. Some make people long for them to bring such things to other jobs. Things like Chelonian Gate to Tanks, but make it oGCD.

Soloing is even less intended in FFXIV, but this job can even solo an extreme that is at the same level as it. No other job has ever been able to do that, nor ever will be able to do that. And not just anyone picking up BLU in XIV can do that. It is the job with the most skill disparity. It has a very high ceiling for mastery.
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-10-22 16:39:21
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Foxfire said: »
besides, ffxi is arguably better about female armor because it doesn't go out of its way to make every female variant skimpy, but it also doesn't shy away from armors that are skimpy, incl. for men (subligars, harnesses, wtv).
For the majority of skimpy equipment, men are equally as scant as women, which is a really refreshing change. Though a friend of mine cites this as the thing that turned him off from FFXI originally. He didn't like the idea of his male adventurer wearing panties.

There are a few exceptions I can think of, like leather pants. I find it neat how when the men wear shorts it goes down to their knees, Hume and Elvaan women wear theirs with tights, and Mithra prefer bare legs under their shorts. It's those kinds of things that add a lot of flavour to the game.

Of course, the devs could have just been horny for Mithra knees. But I dunno. You get that same personality from that race a lot. The average Mithra NPC tends to have a bit of a tomboy personality, which reflects in a lot of their animations. They still move in more feminine patterns, especially for more passive things. But then their deliberate motions tend to veer towards masculine. Even the Warrior job emote is done differently, with the "bring it on" hand motion being done palm-down.

I appreciate Mithra being more than just "female human with cat ears and a cat tail". Thought and deliberation went into crafting a unique race of people.
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By RadialArcana 2021-10-22 16:47:51
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Original Mithra sit animation.
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