Afania said: »
Although that means players that farmed ag rem solo are screwed without groups.
Maybe SE will introduce a trade system to items for RP from Ambuscade or in exchange to corresponding weapon currency [Alex,Dyna,HMP,Stones]!
Dynamis (D) Wave 3
Dynamis (D) Wave 3
Maybe SE will introduce a trade system to items for RP from Ambuscade or in exchange to corresponding weapon currency [Alex,Dyna,HMP,Stones]!
Valefor.Angierus said: »
If I understand it correctly, you don't need to wear the weapon or even be on the job to get the points, just have to flag the weapon to start building the points. So in theory you could flag Koga, go BLM, MB insane damage for days, get your upgrade and be happy.
You also don't need to be the one dishing out the damage but I'm sure the points gained are neutered from this approach.
You also don't need to be the one dishing out the damage but I'm sure the points gained are neutered from this approach.
Nyarlko said: »
Also, it's a little bit unclear in the post, but it realllllly sounded like they said that it was connected to people in your group using the corresponding weapons...
Had a friend that knows JP take a look at the video and he says there's 0 mention of what weapons players dealt damage with mattering. The only determining factor for points is what the MONSTER is wearing. Literally can do damage with any weapon and you'll get points. Back to Raetic +1 WAR zergs =/
Where does taru wave 3 mega pop in windy?
Heaven's Tower entrance. You can run there safely from MH without coming across any mobs.
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
Back to Raetic +1 WAR zergs =/
Oh and btw, to anyone who reads this and immediately go "war or bust every other job gtfo", unlike short zergs like woc, I personally think strong zerg jobs like war dont have gigantic advantage over other DD here. The fight is long, so the advantage of MS is not that huge.
Additionally since hate will be capped, jobs with the ability to dump hate, such as drg, or jobs that has good synergy with shadows, such as 1h dd like blu or thf, is still good.
Rewatch the windy video again and I noticed how fast 2h dd dropped as soon as they pull hate even though they were in hybrid set.
If geo bubbles are nerfed then jobs with extra defense down ability like dnc is probably nice.
[+]
Bahamut.Xiutaru said: »
Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »
Just beat Tarutaru Disjoined, first attempt(was initially a probing run and we planned to kill it saturday). Buffs and strat was largely the same. However, my JP buddy said SCH and BLM MB wrecks it. A JP Ls on another server Bahamut reported 99k MBs pretty much nonstop.
However, they didn't kill all the fetters as far as i know (not sure), and they took it down to 1%, where it benediction and healed for full. >.>
We killed all the fetters but TWO odins popped. They were not back to back however.
Ballzack Video uploading soon.
However, they didn't kill all the fetters as far as i know (not sure), and they took it down to 1%, where it benediction and healed for full. >.>
We killed all the fetters but TWO odins popped. They were not back to back however.
Ballzack Video uploading soon.
YouTube Video Placeholder
All wave 3 mobs & fetters killed, with 14 minutes left after Disjoined Tarutaru died. I believe we went in a counterclockwise loop from where the wave 2 boss was, ending up at the bridge to Heaven's Tower.
We tried SC +MB on the Taru, with languor/malaise/focus/acumen/frazzle3 couldnt do over 1k on the MB.. we killed the Ice circle and tried distortion SC
Afania said: »
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
Back to Raetic +1 WAR zergs =/
Oh and btw, to anyone who reads this and immediately go "war or bust every other job gtfo", unlike short zergs like woc, I personally think strong zerg jobs like war dont have gigantic advantage over other DD here. The fight is long, so the advantage of MS is not that huge.
Additionally since hate will be capped, jobs with the ability to dump hate, such as drg, or jobs that has good synergy with shadows, such as 1h dd like blu or thf, is still good.
Rewatch the windy video again and I noticed how fast 2h dd dropped as soon as they pull hate even though they were in hybrid set.
If geo bubbles are nerfed then jobs with extra defense down ability like dnc is probably nice.
Obviously anything can work, it's not particularly hard content once you have 18 people with the right buffers, regardless of jobs you take as DD. But even then you will see, or have already seen(I think nearly all of the early 18man clears have used DRK and WAR as primary DDs) Raetic will take over, especially for more lowman groups who try to 10-12 man this and need every ounce of DPS possible to beat the 20M HP.
But yeah, more to your point. I think a party of THF WAR(or DRK or SAM) COR BRD GEO WHM would be perfect setup for this. THF can spam Collaborator on the other DD and stay kinda safe itself with shadows and Trick Attack.
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
But even then you will see, or have already seen(I think nearly all of the early 18man clears have used DRK and WAR as primary DDs) Raetic will take over, especially for more lowman groups who try to 10-12 man this and need every ounce of DPS possible to beat the 20M HP.
And this was my point. The gap between war and other dd was much, much smaller than I initially thought.
Just fyi, from my experience with woc, war is often at least 30% sometimes even 40% ahead of everyone else, that includes other very strong zerg job like run and drk. The gap was so huge that I personally wont consider any other dd except war for woc, assuming stuns are completely blocked via buffs of course. Obviously the fact that woc is a 2 min fight greatly benefits MS, and people with strong augments for ms set.
But from the past runs every DD seems to have less 15% dmg gap between each other. In windy drk was 18%, war 17% and cor 16%. Note that the acc was extremely bad on windy boss to the point that very high acc set was required, if one of the dd was high acc dd like drg or blu tp in low acc tp set they may have a chance to match wars dmg in final parse result if they stay alive.
Ive been a hardcore "war for zergs" worshipper for very long time just because of woc parses, honestly was shocked at how close others are in much longer fights.
Afania said: »
Additionally since hate will be capped, jobs with the ability to dump hate, such as drg, or jobs that has good synergy with shadows, such as 1h dd like blu or thf, is still good.
I felt DRK was a strong choice for us here since Drains were easily landed letting me and our other DRK have over 5K HP to soak up hits without worrying too much.
[+]
Sylph.Gobbo said: »
Afania said: »
Additionally since hate will be capped, jobs with the ability to dump hate, such as drg, or jobs that has good synergy with shadows, such as 1h dd like blu or thf, is still good.
I felt DRK was a strong choice for us here since Drains were easily landed letting me and our other DRK have over 5K HP to soak up hits without worrying too much.
I also have noticed drk getting pdif advantage when bolster wears. They maintained very high ws avg too.
[+]
Incoming use for Apoc when LR is down!
Afania said: »
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
But even then you will see, or have already seen(I think nearly all of the early 18man clears have used DRK and WAR as primary DDs) Raetic will take over, especially for more lowman groups who try to 10-12 man this and need every ounce of DPS possible to beat the 20M HP.
And this was my point. The gap between war and other dd was much, much smaller than I initially thought.
But from the past runs every DD seems to have less 15% dmg gap between each other. In windy drk was 18%, war 17% and cor 16%
I totally get your point that other DDs can work, but I can't help but notice your setup is exactly what I joked about in my 1st post about "time to go back to raetic +1 zerg" lol. You're saying other things can work while using the method I proposed would be ideal(ok you're not using 4 WARs but DRK is pretty dang close to the same thing as WAR).
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
Afania said: »
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
But even then you will see, or have already seen(I think nearly all of the early 18man clears have used DRK and WAR as primary DDs) Raetic will take over, especially for more lowman groups who try to 10-12 man this and need every ounce of DPS possible to beat the 20M HP.
And this was my point. The gap between war and other dd was much, much smaller than I initially thought.
But from the past runs every DD seems to have less 15% dmg gap between each other. In windy drk was 18%, war 17% and cor 16%
I totally get your point that other DDs can work, but I can't help but notice your setup is exactly what I joked about in my 1st post about "time to go back to raetic +1 zerg" lol. You're saying other things can work while using the method I proposed would be ideal(ok you're not using 4 WARs but DRK is pretty dang close to the same thing as WAR).
Did you read my last post explaining why? Lol.
War is still a good job to bring for any event, but my point is its not overwhelming better than everything else like woc parses.
People getting their first clears will assume they need max alliance output woc style, thus bringing wars based on their understanding of its capability in zergs. Give it a couple of months Im sure more and more people will notice other DD with higher acc and surviability is not necessarily behind for entire run.
hobo said: »
personal opinion. I like parse more because it provides me with more information. Parse will break it down to each different spell, JA, WS. So I can report that the summoner did X damage with Tidal Wave and Z damage with Geocrush. Also reporting that I had average of X with leaden salute over last stand.
Afania said: »
Did you read my last post explaining why? Lol.
War is still a good job to bring for any event, but my point is its not overwhelming better than everything else like woc parses.
People getting their first clears will assume they need max alliance output woc style, thus bringing wars based on their understanding of its capability in zergs. Give it a couple of months Im sure more and more people will notice other DD with higher acc and surviability is not necessarily behind for entire run.
War is still a good job to bring for any event, but my point is its not overwhelming better than everything else like woc parses.
People getting their first clears will assume they need max alliance output woc style, thus bringing wars based on their understanding of its capability in zergs. Give it a couple of months Im sure more and more people will notice other DD with higher acc and surviability is not necessarily behind for entire run.
Yeah, but you're being disingenuous about the power of WAR and DRK in the fight. It was clearly powerful enough to get clears in an extended 18 man fight, so it makes sense it will become the default setup for most groups and most certainly the 12man groups trying for the clear.
I am not doubting other jobs can work, but how can you say or imply the cookie cutter setup for the highest chance a group can use for a clear right now isn't DRK WAR COR for their DD parties?
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
but how can you say or imply the cookie cutter setup for the highest chance a group can use for a clear right now isn't DRK WAR COR for their DD parties?
I did not imply drk being a bad choice at all.... you are just twisting the meaning of my post now.
Originally you mentioned "raetic hq war", I simply said war isnt by all end all the best choice because of the nature of the fight, how did it turn into "war and drk is not the best choice"? In fact my intention was to promote one of the none war dd to begin with, that includes drk. And somehow you read it completely different.
Besides drk I assumed other dd may not be as bad based on experience in windy, for 2 things.
1: Accuracy. On boss I was tp in absolute max acc set at one point, otherwise my acc would be floored, at least 60% of fight I had to tp and ws in max acc set. I only swap to low when sv were up, or on adds.
In general, this fight is extremely bad for melee cor from my experience. And even then cor was only 13% behind 2h.
Also just fyi, on wave 2 boss zerg which ends in 2 min or less, war with ms was 25% and cor was only 16%, aka nearly 40% dmg ahead. So the gap was much bigger in shorter fights. In longer fights not so much imo.
Cor is still behind blu and thf as 1h dd, both jobs have far better acc than cor as well. in such acc intense fight, Im pretty sure a blu or thf could easily do 20% more dps than I did, or more. I wouldn't be surprised if top 1h like thf manage to keep up with 2h.
And both jobs offers utility. THF can steal PD to speed things up, or do enmity control. BLU can mg entire pt. All debuffs land easily on boss, so any spell debuffs will land easily.
Also since this boss isnt just wave 3 zerg, but clearing wave 1 and 2 is also required, blu cleaving through early waves for more time remaining may be doable if you setup for it.
2: Surviability. I was the only person who didn't die in entire run, if I didnt have shadows I would probably die too, since I ate a couple of nm ws near the end. Dead dd does no dps as always. Whoever dies less will ended up parsing the highest. In that case dd with stronger surviability has higher chance to win parse.
Considering war is still the strongest zerg job, I can see why people immediately aim to use it when they learned the boss has so much hp. But the more I think about it the more I feel wars advantage wasn't that high. give it a few more months, dyna meta jobs may change slightly.
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
I totally get your point that other DDs can work, but I can't help but notice your setup is exactly what I joked about in my 1st post about "time to go back to raetic +1 zerg" lol. You're saying other things can work while using the method I proposed would be ideal(ok you're not using 4 WARs but DRK is pretty dang close to the same thing as WAR).
True, but usually I give our top players the option to go w/e dd (once we have our support jobs sorted)jobs they want to go on since I know they can complete the task on anything. Ballzack and Deadlypanda for example just love DRK and usually go that, Relak swaps between WAR RUN SAM (not so much SAM lately) I basically only have WAR as a traditional DD job and don't use Gearswap or windower, so I only go WAR if the tank spot can be filled by someone else, cause in theory, I should be behind the other DDs on parse. But yeah, at least in our vids it's more "go w/e DD u want cause I know you don't suck" and they end up picking DRK or WAR cause of love for the job more than anything, except maybe Relak, he's a career BLU.
In our Taru Vid, Khelek went WAR pretty much solely because he's missed most of our Dynamis runs and needed head clear LOL. (He's also a career DRK and PLD)
DirectX said: »
Do Ageha and Armor Break stack?
Or do Ageha or Armor Break and Shell Crusher stack?
If GEO is nerfed this would be better than DNC steps anyway?
Or do Ageha or Armor Break and Shell Crusher stack?
If GEO is nerfed this would be better than DNC steps anyway?
Dia, Box Step, Frailty will all stack with each other and one more DefDown debuff. Everything/anything else does not stack with each other and are basically alllllll competing for the same buff/debuff slot.
Dia maxes out at def-20% w/ light shot, Box Step lv10 is def-23%, and can get up to def-33% from the generic DefDown slot (-25% is much more common, but BLU and BST are both technically capable of -33%,) which means that it is possible get 68%-74% DefDown excluding GEO.
Which means that no, DefDown ws are not better than Box Step. They should be used alongside of it.
DirectX said: »
Do Ageha and Armor Break stack?
Or do Ageha or Armor Break and Shell Crusher stack?
If GEO is nerfed this would be better than DNC steps anyway?
Or do Ageha or Armor Break and Shell Crusher stack?
If GEO is nerfed this would be better than DNC steps anyway?
-No they don't stack.
-No they wont and you need to land them first, if it was up to me I would pick Armor Break since it has the longest duration and used by RUN DRK WAR.
-You can still have a DNC in party doing Box Step since it stacks with everything else and DNC is a very competent DPS ...
With Frailty getting 75% nerf this means a blazed/idris frailty becomes what -16%? [did the calculations roughly]
This does advocate the use of DNC more than ever to stack with Dia+[WS's or Angon/Tomahawk]+Frailty.
without level 10 box youre at -61% but with it you get to -84%
[+]
There are limits on the effectiveness of defense down debuffs. As I have mentioned before, it's not possible to cap damage with just these debuffs in certain places, even if the target is supposed to have his defense at the lowest level. It's as if there is a sort of cap on def down's % or something...
Carbuncle.Papesse said: »
There are limits on the effectiveness of defense down debuffs. As I have mentioned before, it's not possible to cap damage with just these debuffs in certain places, even if the target is supposed to have his defense at the lowest level. It's as if there is a sort of cap on def down's % or something...
That's pretty likely given how the vast majority of things have lower (and upper) limits. Has anyone actually ever confirmed that we can actually zero out defense when we can't actually zero out evasion or the like?
Ambuscade/Omen/Adoulin/Escha/Odin and Ultima MTs we can reduce the enemies' physical defense to nothing.
HTBs/UCNMs/Shadow Lord MT/Dynamis Divergence/old zones in general this doesn't seem possible. No matter the amount of defense down, the attack has to be increased (often to extreme levels) to reach the cap.
The Shadow Lord MT and wave2 dyna bosses can't be effectively SMN-burned because of that (if people ever wondered why).
HTBs/UCNMs/Shadow Lord MT/Dynamis Divergence/old zones in general this doesn't seem possible. No matter the amount of defense down, the attack has to be increased (often to extreme levels) to reach the cap.
The Shadow Lord MT and wave2 dyna bosses can't be effectively SMN-burned because of that (if people ever wondered why).
Would be great if cap can be confirmed.
Or if Level Correction happens before or after for that matter.
Or if it even applies to Disjoined NMs.
Because:
Based on videos so far it seems there are no issues with capping DMG 40k TC, 33k SB and 25k reso (even saw one 70k Reso) along with AM3 procs on Empy.. unless I'm missing something, the main concern is around 50% where hate gets capped and SV songs wear off and possibly something related to Odin whenever its called.
Debuffs seems to land easily even T1 Paralyze and light shot..
I believe the more we spam these the better understanding we will get, for instance:
On Disjoined Tarutaru
The choice of WS's used seem to be following a pattern low>high [alternating] in correlation to HP% then skillchains.
Wasp Sting> Energy Steal> Cyclone> Dancing Edge under 50%> Evisceration> and even AE
Under 25% it looks like it switched behavior and was doing level 2 skillchains to DDs back to back [Possible regain? or Odin related]
It stopped once it did PD at 15% then back again to level 2 skill chains.
Or if Level Correction happens before or after for that matter.
Or if it even applies to Disjoined NMs.
Because:
Based on videos so far it seems there are no issues with capping DMG 40k TC, 33k SB and 25k reso (even saw one 70k Reso) along with AM3 procs on Empy.. unless I'm missing something, the main concern is around 50% where hate gets capped and SV songs wear off and possibly something related to Odin whenever its called.
Debuffs seems to land easily even T1 Paralyze and light shot..
I believe the more we spam these the better understanding we will get, for instance:
On Disjoined Tarutaru
The choice of WS's used seem to be following a pattern low>high [alternating] in correlation to HP% then skillchains.
Wasp Sting> Energy Steal> Cyclone> Dancing Edge under 50%> Evisceration> and even AE
Under 25% it looks like it switched behavior and was doing level 2 skillchains to DDs back to back [Possible regain? or Odin related]
It stopped once it did PD at 15% then back again to level 2 skill chains.
Bahamut.Xiutaru said: »
Few observations:
• Galka things (from Mischief (Dimitriaz))
— he started using raging/smash/gale axe
— 10 mins into combat started using spinning/rampage/calamity (rampage and calamity hurt a lot)
— 20 mins into combat started using mistral/decimation/bora which hit like wet noodles
— 30 mins in he starts using onslaught, primal rend, ruinator, cloudsplitter, and nimbuscleaver (nimbuscleaver = AoE cloudsplitter)
• Galka things (from Mischief (Dimitriaz))
— he started using raging/smash/gale axe
— 10 mins into combat started using spinning/rampage/calamity (rampage and calamity hurt a lot)
— 20 mins into combat started using mistral/decimation/bora which hit like wet noodles
— 30 mins in he starts using onslaught, primal rend, ruinator, cloudsplitter, and nimbuscleaver (nimbuscleaver = AoE cloudsplitter)
According to this post on page 4, yeah; it's time/hp based.
Foxfire said: »
According to this post on page 4, yeah; it's time/hp based.
It is worth noting that if it restores HP via Wild Card/Benediction, it continues in the mode it's currently in until the next trigger.
Carbuncle.Papesse said: »
Ambuscade/Omen/Adoulin/Escha/Odin and Ultima MTs we can reduce the enemies' physical defense to nothing.
HTBs/UCNMs/Shadow Lord MT/Dynamis Divergence/old zones in general this doesn't seem possible. No matter the amount of defense down, the attack has to be increased (often to extreme levels) to reach the cap.
The Shadow Lord MT and wave2 dyna bosses can't be effectively SMN-burned because of that (if people ever wondered why).
HTBs/UCNMs/Shadow Lord MT/Dynamis Divergence/old zones in general this doesn't seem possible. No matter the amount of defense down, the attack has to be increased (often to extreme levels) to reach the cap.
The Shadow Lord MT and wave2 dyna bosses can't be effectively SMN-burned because of that (if people ever wondered why).
I've capped attack on all of those without having sky high attack; all you need is more sources of defense down than 99% of groups bring.
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