Dev Tracker - Discussion

Language: JP EN DE FR
New Items
2023-11-19
users online
Forum » FFXI » General » Dev Tracker - Discussion
Dev Tracker - Discussion
First Page 2 3 ... 95 96 97 ... 409 410 411
 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1649
By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2019-02-20 11:18:19
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Honestly, imo for healing I think the best thing that could happen for both rdm AND sch would be for an adjustment to Afflatus JAs to work as a subjob. Make them weaker potency or something so they aren't overpowered, but it would give rdm incentive to sub anything other than /sch when healing and sch anything other than rdm.

By way of balance, they could make composure work on subjob too. Might make me consider whm/rdm more often if I could get 3x duration self buffs. probably not though, light arts is super powerful for whm.

Quote:
What kind of RDMs have you been around to even think this?

I have basically perfect enfeebling sets on rdm. Not perfect really, but 1 step below BiS in 2 or 3 slots and BiS in all other. I can't land enfeebles on end game content. I can't blind Maju, I can't enfeeble any Volte NMs. I need Geo macc+/meva- to land those spells. And that is not happening.... ever.
 Asura.Saevel
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9658
By Asura.Saevel 2019-02-20 11:19:04
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Geriond said: »
While lacking Cure V is certainly not a big reasons for RDM and SCH not being able to main heal many high endgame events, it certainly wouldn't have "zero" effect.

My Cure IV's are already around 1300, anything taking more then 1300 damage in 3~4s is going to die no matter what you do.

Cure V would have zero effect on RDM and SCH healing, it would become like Cure VI is now.
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2019-02-20 11:22:46
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | Quote | Reply
 
Post deleted by User.
 Cerberus.Tacothecat
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 79
By Cerberus.Tacothecat 2019-02-20 11:25:32
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Saevel said: »
Cerberus.Tacothecat said: »
Why, why can't we focus on rdm enfeeble aspect and make those enfeebles actually proc on high end content.

...

What kind of RDMs have you been around to even think this?

Paralyze II / Slow II / Addle II are boss and I use them all the time on big stuff.

Dia III is brokenly good because it's a unique form of defense down that stacks additively with all the rest, very useful for when Frailty Geomancy is nerfed.

Bio III is in a similiar boat but since attack down doesn't experience the same exponential returns as defense down, and we can only have one or the other, Dia III wins.

Blind is useless due to evasion tanking not being a thing anymore, the actual potency is pretty good just we don't really use the hundreds of evasion required to make it all work.

They updated Poison II but honestly it's just not enough with how hard we hit now.

And then the two best debuffs, Frazzle III and Distract III. Those alone are worth their weight in gold, the only issue is Frazzle III being dark based and resisted on too many things.

Sab now having a duration and being on a 3min cooldown means all the above just got WAY better. Pop Sab then cripple the boss with debuffs. They will last longer then Sab's recast and so you can maintain those OP debuffs longer.

Now here is the crux, are those debuffs sufficient to justify bringing a RDM in alliance content? Most certainly yes, they fit perfectly in a tank PT where they Haste II / Refresh III / backup Cure the party while piling on the debuffs. Is it worth bringing them in a six man group, no it's not. Six man teams are too tight for space and stacking BRD+GEO+COR is always better, especially since the COR is a pseudo DD anyway.

If no tank then it's
DD x 2
WHM (healer)
COR/BRD/GEO

The only slot a RDM could function is as the healer, but only if they had the ability to heal both DD's, the COR and the GEO at the same time after a heavy AoE attack, ala Curaga III. Hell even BRD's are becoming pseudo DD's these days.

So unless SE makes Composure a Haste / Accuracy aura, RDM won't be fitting into any of those three buffing slots.

I am a rdm, and even more so. I have max potency and arguably BiS for nearly every situation on rdm. I use my entire arsenal on rdm with the exception of bio.

Again, dia 3 is useless if you have a cor and a geo/rdm or any version of cor combined with a /rdm

Para and slow are not as strong as you are making it out to be. Neither one of those spells are enough to make you think, "oh let's take a rdm for para and slow." Where as people think about brd, cor, and geo for nearly everything.

Seems we both agree on just about the rest of it so we can skip that part of the convo.

I did not mention addle, distract, frazzle for a reason. I felt those were in a good spot. However, distract isn't needed nearly as much as it used to be needed, I can only think of a few instances where distract is needed. (wave 3 thf mobs)

Frazzle is unique, I will give it that, but who benefits the most from frazzle? A rdm, blm setup is rare now, not saying it doesn't happen (I know someone will immediately jump and name 1 or 2 fights) but the job that needs it the most is typically rdm, without a rdm, you don't really have a need for it.

Addle is in an amazing spot in my opinion, hands down one of rdm best spells.

I am not saying rdm doesn't get invites, or isn't needed. I do however feel my words were twisted to make it look like I said that. No, I rdm almost every event, long haste 2 and refresh 3, but in most content the dps are killing so fast the enfeebles are not needed until you get to bosses. Mid bosses, wave 1/2 bosses drop so fast most cases you can't even finish your enfeebles. Which brings up sabo, at first I was very excited about it, but the more I thought about it. The less excited I was.

Since everything dies so ridiculously fast, as stated, enfeebles really only are beneficial on high hp mobs that aren't getting 1 shotted by drk, war, cor. This leaves the wave 3 mega boss, (even circle bosses die extremely fast) sabo gets a +25% bonus to enfeeble potency and another +12 from gloves.
Assuming you are getting para to proc 20% of the time on boss, with sabo/gloves, that proc rate jumps up to 27.4%
That sounds fantastic, until you realize you never were hitting a 20% proc rate to begin with. Wave 3 boss is closer to floor which means even with sabo/gloves you only went from 10% to 13.7%

Slow hardly effects nm's in general due to so many tp moves and the amount of AoE pushed out from those moves.

Rdm really only shines in wave 3 dyna. That is a lot of content rdm is being out shined by other jobs doing just about the same thing if not better.

The only thing a rdm currently does amazingly, stand around and recast haste/refresh, brds can both haste and refresh. A geo can /rdm and haste/refresh.

Tanks take so little dmg that a rdm can cure dyna with a good tank.

If you want to haste, why not play brd and AoE haste and even cap haste,
If you want to cure why not play whm and do it more efficiently
If you want defense down, you take a geo and the geo and cor should be working dia/light shot

If you want to talk potency of para/slow
both can be landed by a geo with at least floor potency, which is 5% paralyze and 7.3% slow
vs rdm floor w/sabo of 13.7% and 12.5%

Taking a rdm hardly makes a difference


Again.... before people twist my words, I am not saying everyone cast at floor potency. But not everyone is perfectly geared, and I have seen geo with more mnd in para/slow than rdm. Everything is going to boil down to the person. It is the average of the difference between rdm potency vs another job doing the same thing.

The rdm potency really isn't enough to make much of a difference. Take out a cor, brd, or geo and the party will crumble though.


Asura.Kusaregedo said: »
the problem with hybrid jobs like rdm and blu is being able to do too much, and do it better than specialists. i'm confident SE has a line in the sand they won't cross no matter what for these jobs.
I believe that to be the case, which is one of the reasons I believe rdm was never put on herc/adhemar gear.
I also believe rdm is dangerously close to being over powered. Which is why I am not running around saying let's make triple attack temper castable on party. Also don't want to see rdm get cure 5 or regen 3, as that will just push rdm into purely healing role.
Offline
Posts: 1412
By Chimerawizard 2019-02-20 11:26:10
Link | Quote | Reply
 
You never get caught casting Cure IV with slow on or simply after haste gets wiped?
While rare, I have come into situations where the WHM is dead, I'm spamming Cure 3/4 and people still slowly dying; casting 3 because either I have no haste and no time to re-apply, or I'm slowed and recast is a ***.

It would have >zero value. Just not even close to as much as WHM Curaga III @Lv.49 would have. Which is why I didn't respond earlier.
 Asura.Saevel
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9658
By Asura.Saevel 2019-02-20 11:31:44
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Chimerawizard said: »
You never get caught casting Cure IV with slow on or simply after haste gets wiped?

No cause I don't suck, why are you so close to the target and what *** is going on cause you got bigger issues. Cure V was good back in 2008 when Cure IV only hit 450~500 HP. Now that Cure IV can go past 1K and Cure III is in the 500+ range, Cure V has lost it's use. That's before we get into how bad Cure V's MP efficiency is.



Cerberus.Tacothecat said: »
I am a rdm, and even more so. I have max potency and arguably BiS for nearly every situation on rdm. I use my entire arsenal on rdm with the exception of bio.

If any of this was true, then you wouldn't of made the comment you did.
 Cerberus.Tacothecat
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 79
By Cerberus.Tacothecat 2019-02-20 11:34:25
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Saevel said: »
If any of this was true, then you wouldn't of made the comment you did.
that is hands down the dumbest thing you have said today. But the day is still young, if anyone could beat that statement, it would be you.
[+]
 Leviathan.Celebrindal
Offline
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3753
By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2019-02-20 11:37:00
Link | Quote | Reply
 
It's all the AoE moves that modern content uses that prevent RDM from effectively main healing. As was said by others above me. It's why as a RDM I gave up on trying to competently main heal against a WHM.

Then again, if we bump up rdm ability to heal, aren't we going to end up with "pink mages" again like everyone complained about years ago?
[+]
Offline
Posts: 1273
By FaeQueenCory 2019-02-20 11:38:03
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Chimerawizard said: »
It would have >zero value. Just not even close to as much as WHM Curaga III @Lv.49 would have. Which is why I didn't respond earlier.
I'm not quite sure the benefit to either of those would be greater than the other. (In situations where C4 isn't keeping people alive, I don't think C3ga would either.)
Plus that would be RDM/WHM instead of SCH, and that extra recast reduction, though small, is worth more IMO.
Whereas what you said earlier:
Chimerawizard said: »
Change sifahir slacks to include RDM & SCH. (maybe more than just those two; but at least those two)
THAT would be the biggest buff. Potency, casting time down, and MP return all in one slot? Let us not forget what it was like to WHM before WHM had empy pants, WHM was in a very similar spot as RDM and SCH is now. (though nowadays things have gotten crazy with the jobpoint buffs to solace)
Offline
Posts: 1412
By Chimerawizard 2019-02-20 11:38:04
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I used to do Ouryu on SCH. There was no avoiding that GD slow.
 Asura.Meliorah
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: DatGoose
Posts: 576
By Asura.Meliorah 2019-02-20 12:53:02
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Too much focus on RDM's healing capabilities, what about it's offensive magic? It could definitely use some work because SCH is currently miles ahead of RDM in both healing and offensive magic. I think RDM is about as good as its going to get with its healing and support tools.
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2019-02-20 15:30:40
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | Quote | Reply
 
Post deleted by User.
 Bismarck.Ihinaa
Offline
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Ihina
Posts: 160
By Bismarck.Ihinaa 2019-02-20 16:06:02
Link | Quote | Reply
 
If a second cure4 can bring additional value to the job, then of course a cure5 can bring additional value to the job.
 Asura.Byrne
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
By Asura.Byrne 2019-02-20 16:42:46
Link | Quote | Reply
 
It really won't though. If you have Haste II, Cure IV is usually back up before the animation is finished, in that case why bother with a Cure V when you can use Cure III (a more enmity efficient spell) or Cure IV (a less enmity efficient, but more MP efficient spell). The point is, if you have all your potency gear, there is just no reason to use it. What Savael was pointing out is actually an endemic problem with bad WHMs as well. They tend to wait to cure people until they need a cure bomb instead of sprinkling out lower tier cures and curagas and are somehow dumbfounded and angry at anyone but themselves when they run out of MP 3 minutes into a fight.
 Asura.Saevel
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9658
By Asura.Saevel 2019-02-20 22:19:56
Link | Quote | Reply
 
FaeQueenCory said: »
I'm not quite sure the benefit to either of those would be greater than the other. (In situations where C4 isn't keeping people alive, I don't think C3ga would either.)
Plus that would be RDM/WHM instead of SCH, and that extra recast reduction, though small, is worth more IMO.

Because there is a global 3s cooldown on all magic (2s on JA/WS), meaning you can have 1,000% fast cast and you still only can cast one spell every cast time + 3s. Keeping one person alive is easy, it's when the boss does a high damage AoE attack that things get bad. Single target healing everyone means ~someone~ is waiting 9~12s for a heal which is long enough for additional attacks to go off and kill them. An AoE heal takes up the same 3s global cooldown slot but heals everyone. Curaga II isn't powerful enough to take people out of the danger HP while Curaga III is. WHM's only use Curaga IV for OMGWTF moments, otherwise it's Curaga II / III with Cure III/IV sprinkled in.

End game healing isn't about MP or even how powerful a single cure is but about time management.

FaeQueenCory said: »
THAT would be the biggest buff. Potency, casting time down, and MP return all in one slot? Let us not forget what it was like to WHM before WHM had empy pants, WHM was in a very similar spot as RDM and SCH is now. (though nowadays things have gotten crazy with the jobpoint buffs to solace)

I already have more MP then I can make use of and I'm already well past the cap on cure potency. For myself there wouldn't be much of a change, but for lower tier RDM's who are just getting into group main healing they would be a life saver.
[+]
 Bismarck.Ihinaa
Offline
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Ihina
Posts: 160
By Bismarck.Ihinaa 2019-02-20 23:25:12
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Byrne said: »
It really won't though.

Sure it will. We can't all be as over the top amazing like saevel. Sometimes we die, sometimes we get slowed, sometimes we forget to reapply haste2, sometimes 2 DDs are in the red after a tp move and you forget to take composure off so you have to wait 2ish seconds inbetween cure4s, so you have to resort to cure3 and hope that's enough while wishing you can cure5 instead.

I think it's hard to dismiss the usefulness of cure5 for rdm after all this talk of the usefulness of cure3/curaga for rdm from the same people trying to dismiss it. Cure 5 would be a plus to RDM. Not a super huge plus, but a plus nonetheless.
[+]
 Asura.Topace
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Topace
Posts: 771
By Asura.Topace 2019-03-02 19:47:58
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Forget pup update where is the weaponskill balance update???? I don't care if I sound bitter, but I hope they aren't going to let war run around spamming 50k decimation for the next year. Such ***.
By volkom 2019-03-02 20:11:13
Link | Quote | Reply
 
What's wrong with that?
Offline
Posts: 7999
By Afania 2019-03-02 20:29:58
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Topace said: »
Forget pup update where is the weaponskill balance update???? I don't care if I sound bitter, but I hope they aren't going to let war run around spamming 50k decimation for the next year. Such ***.

I haven't get the axe myself to check but.....does decimation really average 50k? Ejiin streamed wave 3 run on axe builds and avg ws showed on parse was only 27k. The 50-60k came from MS and MS reso hits just as hard.

For now it doesn't seem THAT OP consider BLU avg 40-45k range already, the bar is already higher since tiz/tp bonus discovered.
 Asura.Chaostaru
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 695
By Asura.Chaostaru 2019-03-02 22:29:02
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Afania said: »
Asura.Topace said: »
Forget pup update where is the weaponskill balance update???? I don't care if I sound bitter, but I hope they aren't going to let war run around spamming 50k decimation for the next year. Such ***.

I haven't get the axe myself to check but.....does decimation really average 50k? Ejiin streamed wave 3 run on axe builds and avg ws showed on parse was only 27k. The 50-60k came from MS and MS reso hits just as hard.

For now it doesn't seem THAT OP consider BLU avg 40-45k range already, the bar is already higher since tiz/tp bonus discovered.

On a significant amount of content the ambu axe is out parsing R15 chango. Which is realllllly sad.
 Phoenix.Iocus
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: androwe
Posts: 1049
By Phoenix.Iocus 2019-03-02 23:19:32
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Chaostaru said: »
Afania said: »
Asura.Topace said: »
Forget pup update where is the weaponskill balance update???? I don't care if I sound bitter, but I hope they aren't going to let war run around spamming 50k decimation for the next year. Such ***.

I haven't get the axe myself to check but.....does decimation really average 50k? Ejiin streamed wave 3 run on axe builds and avg ws showed on parse was only 27k. The 50-60k came from MS and MS reso hits just as hard.

For now it doesn't seem THAT OP consider BLU avg 40-45k range already, the bar is already higher since tiz/tp bonus discovered.

On a significant amount of content the ambu axe is out parsing R15 chango. Which is realllllly sad.

Working as intended. They really want you to tell them how good of a job they did with making new gear, just like when they outdated rema in the beginning of adoulin...

I actually really like axe war but i know im in a minority and feel shitty taking the job away from WAR mains since it's not my main. With savage blade being on RNG now, i want Decimation on RNG but i don't need it.
Offline
Posts: 109
By Treizekordero 2019-03-02 23:27:54
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I haven't seen any talk about RUN and Decimation since they are on Kaja Axe too. Might be nice damage for situations that allow tanking with a hybrid tank/dd set. Unless Reso is that much better?
 Asura.Saevel
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9658
By Asura.Saevel 2019-03-03 07:59:45
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Chaostaru said: »
Afania said: »
Asura.Topace said: »
Forget pup update where is the weaponskill balance update???? I don't care if I sound bitter, but I hope they aren't going to let war run around spamming 50k decimation for the next year. Such ***.

I haven't get the axe myself to check but.....does decimation really average 50k? Ejiin streamed wave 3 run on axe builds and avg ws showed on parse was only 27k. The 50-60k came from MS and MS reso hits just as hard.

For now it doesn't seem THAT OP consider BLU avg 40-45k range already, the bar is already higher since tiz/tp bonus discovered.

On a significant amount of content the ambu axe is out parsing R15 chango. Which is realllllly sad.

Why do you thing this? I have both and do such content, my R15 Chang still crush's my Kaja build as 25 Store TP and Upheaval isn't anything to dismiss. Kaja just turns out to be really consistent and a viable DW option for those tired of /SAM ones.

At full buffs Decimation is going to hit around 40K depending on targets VIT. It doesn't gain any damage from TP or crits, has an acc bonus and WAR already gets enough MA to reliably get 2 DA's per WS with Fighters Roll.
[+]
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2019-03-03 08:14:04
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | Quote | Reply
 
Post deleted by User.
Offline
Posts: 7999
By Afania 2019-03-03 09:00:33
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Treizekordero said: »
I haven't seen any talk about RUN and Decimation since they are on Kaja Axe too. Might be nice damage for situations that allow tanking with a hybrid tank/dd set. Unless Reso is that much better?

Since its fusion, seems like a good choice to close light with cor savage blade.
[+]
 Phoenix.Iocus
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: androwe
Posts: 1049
By Phoenix.Iocus 2019-03-03 18:40:28
Link | Quote | Reply
 
DirectX said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
WAR already gets enough MA to reliably get 2 DA's per WS with Fighters Roll.
What if you have SAM & Chaos in a 6 man PT?

Also the axe will be better next update somehow.
And not even the final upgrade! Thats what keeps blowing my mind. I get that these are HUGE time saving alternatives to the entire process of getting a REMA to R15, but I'm still wondering what other little suprises might come along the way to them being final form.
 Asura.Gotenn
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Gotenn
Posts: 243
By Asura.Gotenn 2019-03-04 17:29:40
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Afania said: »
Treizekordero said: »
I haven't seen any talk about RUN and Decimation since they are on Kaja Axe too. Might be nice damage for situations that allow tanking with a hybrid tank/dd set. Unless Reso is that much better?

Since its fusion, seems like a good choice to close light with cor savage blade.

I've actually been doing this in CP with my friend, only he's been on Paladin doing Savage Blade with his Kaja Sword, and I've been doing Decimation on RUN.
[+]
 Ragnarok.Ejiin
Guide Maker
Offline
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
user: Ejin
Posts: 528
By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2019-03-04 17:52:32
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Saevel said: »
Why do you think this? I have both and do such content, my R15 Chang still crush's my Kaja build as 25 Store TP and Upheaval isn't anything to dismiss. Kaja just turns out to be really consistent and a viable DW option for those tired of /SAM ones.

Maybe it's just the buffs I use or don't use but my Neaks die just as fast with Kaja and we still clear every Volte in Wave3 using Kaja with 8-9 chars(Losing Armor Break was prob why my average was only 27K plus no fighter's roll, btw). Saying Chango crushes Kaja is a bit disingenuous as I honestly can't tell the difference outside of when Warcry is up.

If I had to ballpark the actual DPS dif between the two it'd be no more than 5-10% which is crazy when you compare the difficulty to obtain each.

I'm also a Rank15 Chango owner so it does me no service to hype up Kaja, but people should def know that an easier option exists as an alternative and the broader population is accepting of Kaja DD for content instead of having a R15 REMA only mindset. That is the entire point of my video, not to say Kaja is the best, but Kaja is close enough that it's worth considering.
[+]
 Asura.Veikur
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
By Asura.Veikur 2019-03-04 18:03:19
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Eh, give him long enough and you'll swear he was the one pioneering for Kaja use given the way he'll be talking about it.
[+]
 Ragnarok.Ejiin
Guide Maker
Offline
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
user: Ejin
Posts: 528
By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2019-03-04 18:14:11
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Naw, I actually give props to Saevel for his advocacy for unconventional builds. He always advocated Club sets and Bravura, which I never found an interest in but see their use in certain situations.

For once I think we're both totally on the same page, we agree Kaja is very competitive and really good to have some flexibility. The only debate that's happening is people like Afa coming in trying to find any reason they can to tell people Kaja sucks without considering all the factors <3
[+]
First Page 2 3 ... 95 96 97 ... 409 410 411
Log in to post.