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Delve weapons only
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-05-13 14:25:55
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Sevvy stole my innocence then jumped servers D:

I want it back!
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By Alkaseltzer 2013-05-13 14:28:28
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I haven't really had the chance to do much with the expansion yet, can anyone explain what it means to plasm farm? And what it takes to start doing it?

So far I've really just been trying to get into doing some colonization rieves to get some bayld for the basic gear sets, though it seems slow going since most of the time I end with maybe 100-400 bayld from single rieves.
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-05-13 14:30:43
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http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Delve
 Bahamut.Sevvy
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By Bahamut.Sevvy 2013-05-13 14:33:41
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Sevvy stole my innocence then jumped servers D: I want it back!

I miss you pleebs, XIV starting again soon! you gonna be on phase 3 beta?
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By Alkaseltzer 2013-05-13 14:37:07
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So what's considered farming plasm and what sort of gear is required by shout groups to do it?
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By Bahamut.Sevvy 2013-05-13 14:39:38
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Alkaseltzer said: »
So what's considered farming plasm and what sort of gear is required by shout groups to do it?

Theres a couple things you can do regarding Delve and Ill summerize because the site has all the info.

You can pop NMs outside of fracture and you have 20 mins to kill them before they despawn, the drop rate on items are considerably less than if you were in a fracture.

In a fracture you have 45 mins to either farm plasm (50 from each NQ mob, 500-750 for each NM which can be multiplicative) and the NMs in fracture have at least one guaranteed drop (armor/item)
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By Afania 2013-05-13 14:48:03
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Bismarck.Mahley said: »
reading this thread makes me angry delve weapons have brought out a new tier of elite *** who seem to think spending a few hours farming something makes them gods and better than players who spend months building relics and the gear to go with it, the only smart players in this entire thread are the ones who say its the player not the weapon, all the arguments and debating here are pointless, common sense and skill will get you alot better results than "i has new shiny weapon"


I'm not sure why you mentioned "elitist ***". If you're making a /shout ally, and you don't know player's skill, then the only way to know how much contribution they'd done in ally would be their weapon.

Of course you can argue that bad TP/WS set and bad skill would make a player gimp even with delve weapons. But are you going to ask every DD what their TP/WS sets are? I wouldn't bother if I'm making an ally. And of course I wouldn't know their skill before I pt with them. And I don't always have friends to drag for fracture farm ally.

So if I'm going to make an ally for fracture farm, and I know I can't get my friends to come DD(And most of the times I don't have friends anyways) I'm just going to ask their weapons. No reason for me to assume their skill level and I don't have that much time to ask every DD their every WS/TP/JA sets. It's just like when you apply for a job, recruiter only read your resume/cover letter then decide whether they'd have an interview or not. It's really the same thing...if I don't know you and don't want to ask every gear set, best way is to ask your weapon.


Fenrir.Camiie said: »
It's not that I have been excluded, and I know I don't have a bad reputation on the server, it's just that I don't want exclusion to become the norm with the new content, especially on the low end of it.

If you want to be super-picky when it comes to fighting the <Mega Boss> I can understand that. If you only accept the best of the best while fighting trash mobs, then I think you're being rather unreasonable and unrealistic.

It's not that unrealistic anymore. Plenty of DD have Delve weapons now, and it's only going to become more common in the future. If you say no to a none delve weapon DD, I'm pretty sure you can get 5 more Delve weapon DD wanting to join.

When you have lots of R/E/M/D weapon DDs wanting to do fracture run, it's not that surprising that none R/E/M/D DD can't get in.

Fenrir.Camiie said: »
Odin.Registry said: »
I kind of read through a few pages, I have to agree with Kaparu.

Yes, Delve can be something for those of you who are somewhat behind to get caught up on some DD jobs that may or may not have the best gear available, but you shouldn't be coming on your 90 Masamune thinking that's acceptable. Flip to COR, BRD, SCH, WHM, or something and do a few runs for a bit of gear first.

So the first successful Delve farming runs consisted of nothing but COR, BRD, SCH, and WHMs? There were no melee DD? So THAT'S the secret no one wanted to tell me. It's all so clear to me now.


If you go make Delve farming runs NOW, it's not the first anymore.

Yeah, if your fracture farm ally is the first ever exist, maybe 3~4k is acceptable. As ppl getting better at it, with better pt setup, and more DDs getting delve weapon, the standard goes up.

When VW was out, it's acceptable to do VW with PLD tanking it and 20 min a kill. Now any pt spending more than 3 min on an NM is bad pt.

Are you saying just because 1st VW ally takes 20~30 min to kill an NM, so it's acceptable to spend 20 min to kill an NM now?

No. Even if you're ok with it, doesn't mean every other pt member is ok with it. If I make an ally that takes 20~30 min to kill a VW now, I'm just wasting 17 other member's time, when they can just join another ally for faster kills.

Maybe 1st Delve pt has no delve weapon DDs, but now plenty of DDs have delve weapons. And they also have right to choose any ally that gives more point a run.

I understand it's frustrating that none delve weapon DD can't get into ally for delve weapons, but that's just how it goes. This world is never fair.
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By sorge74 2013-05-13 14:54:02
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The people who complain about shout groups are the same ones not making their own groups. I swear there are about 5 NA/EU on valefor leading groups.

There's also a lot of people who treat farming IT+ monsters like they are worms. Having a delve weapon shows you have some experience.
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 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-05-13 14:55:49
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Asura.Nanabi said: »
Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
You didn't read much, apparently, because the hole in that line of thinking has been pointed out umpteen times now: you're going to get unpleasantly mediocre players on average, yes, but requiring that your unpleasantly mediocre player have a substantially better weapon is going to increase the average quality of your recruits.

Day-later reiteration: these aren't things that I would require, but the logic in the decision to do so is undeniable

I like how I favor one's opinion over yours = I didn't read much apparently. Flawed logic?

Seriously, grow the **** up.

What you quoted is not a matter of opinion.
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By Sylph.Alternanthera 2013-05-13 15:06:08
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This whole Delve Weapon Only thing is stupid, if you want REALLY good numbers this is how you do it:

- If you smoke, you're out
- If you have small kids, you're out
- If you have dogs/cats/attacking spiders, you're out
- If you had taco bell or other bowel wrenching issues, you're out
- If your parents/spouse/roomies have chores for you, you're out
- If a big storm/fire/godzilla is coming, you're out

In other words, if you could get *** to stop going AFK every 5 minutes, that would more than make up for their gimp gear.

TL:DR - gating people for farming ***is stoopid when people are idiots anyway.
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By ninjie 2013-05-13 15:10:30
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Sylph.Alternanthera said: »
This whole Delve Weapon Only thing is stupid, if you want REALLY good numbers this is how you do it:

- If you smoke, you're out
- If you have small kids, you're out
- If you have dogs/cats/attacking spiders, you're out
- If you had taco bell[/b] or other bowel wrenching issues, you're out
- If your parents/spouse/roomies have chores for you, you're out
- If a big storm/fire/godzilla is coming, you're out

In other words, if you could get *** to stop going AFK every 5 minutes, that would more than make up for their gimp gear.

TL:DR - gating people for farming ***is stoopid when people are idiots anyway.

How dare you discriminate against Taco Bell!
 Asura.Nanabi
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By Asura.Nanabi 2013-05-13 15:19:12
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Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
Asura.Nanabi said: »
Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
You didn't read much, apparently, because the hole in that line of thinking has been pointed out umpteen times now: you're going to get unpleasantly mediocre players on average, yes, but requiring that your unpleasantly mediocre player have a substantially better weapon is going to increase the average quality of your recruits.

Day-later reiteration: these aren't things that I would require, but the logic in the decision to do so is undeniable

I like how I favor one's opinion over yours = I didn't read much apparently. Flawed logic?

Seriously, grow the **** up.

What you quoted is not a matter of opinion.

o·pin·ion
/əˈpinyən/
Noun
A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
The beliefs or views of a large number or majority of people about a particular thing.

Quote:
There is a big distinction between damage potential and actual damage done. Gear most definitely determines damage potential, the better your gear the higher your ceiling. What gear doesn't do is teach people HOW to be a melee, there are many other things involved. That is where your get such a large gap between what's mathematically possible and what we actually see. You can't just set all capability equal to 100 and reduce the differences between players to gear alone, it's an incredibly misleading way to go about things.

Although English is not my native language, I am still capable to read and comprehend what context of the matter is being discussed.
What Saevel have said is a matter of opinion because it's a remark/statement coming from his PoV.
Have I once said I do not agree, be it partially or entirely with your opinion? No.
Have I once said I took a stance in any of the argument from the context of the discussion? No.
I merely am in agreeance with what Saevel happened to state, and you already gone off to quote me as "I didn't read much", are you implying that I can't read, just blatantly trying to be a douche and paraphrasing your word so it doesn't look like you're calling me out for having trouble in comprehension?

In either case, it's a game dated 2002 and this is a freaking forum FFS, someone holding an opinion and other concurring to it does not necessarily mean that it's 100% legitimate to EVERY person.

If you can't apply to it then just leave it, no point of being a cyber douche to anyone who does not show support in your cyber attacking.

Sorry for derailing the thread, this will be my last reply on this topic, have your last laugh w/e.
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 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-05-13 15:20:51
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You either don't understand what an average is or don't understand what an opinion is. Either way, your being wrong is a matter of fact.
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By Bahamut.Mizuharu 2013-05-13 15:24:28
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Honestly party leaders can set up how they want, but this does just kinda make me mad like "R/E/M onry" shouts prior to delve weapons being released. While I can understand that you're the party leader and you can invite who you like, it can be discouraging know that just because you have the next best weapon under r/e/m but no time/funds at the moment to make r/e/m, you're automatically scratched out from possible fights.
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By Sylph.Decimus 2013-05-13 15:32:37
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"next best weapon" is often so bad it's not even worth having. Cor is by far the easiest job to gear that will get you consistently invited to groups so aim for that if time is an issue. If your goal is to be a dd then I don't know what to say aside from "next best weapon" often means you're just a really shitty one.
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By Lakshmi.Eyrhika 2013-05-13 15:45:12
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Just to mess around, I put some things into the spreadsheet.

MNK#1: Fulltime, TP and WS:
Rigor/ / /Thew
+2/Agasaya/Kemas/tantra
+2/+2 /Spiral/Rajas
Atheling/Brown/+2/+2

MNK#2: Put appropriate gear, WS swaps and all, to lazy to actually post.

Guess which won? The rigor no-gear-swap MNK, even when you add in brd buffs/food/rolls the rigor MNK still won. That is how big of a leap these weapons are in terms of increasing your damage. I know people would like to think that the person that put the most effort and care into their job will end up doing better, but that's just not the case with these weapons.
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By Bahamut.Mizuharu 2013-05-13 15:48:08
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Sylph.Decimus said: »
"next best weapon" is often so bad it's not even worth having. Cor is by far the easiest job to gear that will get you consistently invited to groups so aim for that if time is an issue. If your goal is to be a dd then I don't know what to say aside from "next best weapon" often means you're just a really shitty one.

This was my TP set prior to this update
ItemSet 300908
And my Shoha set
ItemSet 300912

Now I know that TP bonus isn't better than Lv99 Amano/Masamune/Koga, but TP bonus was next best. And I think the rest of my gear was fine. All I'm saying is so long as they're not full perle or someshit give them a chance. If someone wasn't r/e/m when I shouted for NNI I'd ask to see TP/WS gear sets before inviting them and asked what weapon they had. And still got plenty of clears for floor 100.

Just to repeat what I said before, it's a party leaders choice who they invite. I personally take whoever so long as they're geared reasonably for their role.
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By Bahamut.Sevvy 2013-05-13 16:02:52
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Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
Asura.Nanabi said: »
Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
You didn't read much, apparently, because the hole in that line of thinking has been pointed out umpteen times now: you're going to get unpleasantly mediocre players on average, yes, but requiring that your unpleasantly mediocre player have a substantially better weapon is going to increase the average quality of your recruits. Day-later reiteration: these aren't things that I would require, but the logic in the decision to do so is undeniable
I like how I favor one's opinion over yours = I didn't read much apparently. Flawed logic? Seriously, grow the **** up.
What you quoted is not a matter of opinion.

I miss you too!
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By Cerberus.Taint 2013-05-13 16:13:22
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I dusted off my Rag last night for some Delve and got waxed on the parse by a newly returning player with Uguly. (like 30% to 23% if I remember correctly)

The damage increase from Delve weapons is larger then any previous gap I can remember.
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 Sylph.Safiyyah
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By Sylph.Safiyyah 2013-05-13 16:21:08
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Reading some of the posts in this topic and just shaking my head. This is clearly why Blizzard added item level- "At XXX item level, you should be doing XXX content to take advantage of gear upgrades therein. Next comes XXX, then XXX at XXX item level." It doesn't guarantee that people are geared correctly, but it gives you a baseline for what's needed to clear content with pickup groups.
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By Boredwithyou 2013-05-13 16:36:23
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Sry to say r/e/m's are like having war widowmakers before delve weapons came out. They are that dominant. Sure when they update r/e/m's whenever they will be back on top but as of now there is no update scheduled. So either get with the program and max out a delve weapon or keep the 95/99 r/e/m only and do pre-adoulin content, or know you will be gimping the party and probably wont get invited unless its your LS members shouting. This is a mathematics game, and math doesnt care how hard you worked for your r/e/m, all its saying is delve weapons are superior by alot.
And these weapons are freaking easy to make. 30k pts or a lucky lotted drop should take a day or 2. Then either take your time and get the airlixirs by farming or if you got the gil just buy'm. 2 days to beat a r/e/m. Seems easy enough.
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By Fenrir.Camiie 2013-05-13 16:41:28
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Boredwithyou said: »
Sry to say r/e/m's are like having war widowmakers before delve weapons came out. They are that dominant. Sure when they update r/e/m's whenever they will be back on top but as of now there is no update scheduled. So either get with the program and max out a delve weapon or keep the 95/99 r/e/m only and do pre-adoulin content, or know you will be gimping the party and probably wont get invited unless its your LS members shouting. This is a mathematics game, and math doesnt care how hard you worked for your r/e/m, all its saying is delve weapons are superior by alot.
And these weapons are freaking easy to make. 30k pts or a lucky lotted drop should take a day or 2. Then either take your time and get the airlixirs by farming or if you got the gil just buy'm. 2 days to beat a r/e/m. Seems easy enough.

I don't think anyone in this thread is saying they want to keep doing Delve forever with their current weapon. They just want to be able to do enough runs to upgrade to one of the new ones.
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By Ragnarok.Daffel 2013-05-13 16:41:54
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Boredwithyou said: »
Sry to say r/e/m's are like having war widowmakers before delve weapons came out. They are that dominant. Sure when they update r/e/m's whenever they will be back on top but as of now there is no update scheduled. So either get with the program and max out a delve weapon or keep the 95/99 r/e/m only and do pre-adoulin content, or know you will be gimping the party and probably wont get invited unless its your LS members shouting. This is a mathematics game, and math doesnt care how hard you worked for your r/e/m, all its saying is delve weapons are superior by alot.
And these weapons are freaking easy to make. 30k pts or a lucky lotted drop should take a day or 2. Then either take your time and get the airlixirs by farming or if you got the gil just buy'm. 2 days to beat a r/e/m. Seems easy enough.

And this is why I stopped giving SE my money ^.^
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By Odin.Frescora 2013-05-13 16:51:39
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SE needs to make a new group of weapons that starts with an "A" so people can start shouting for D/R/E/A/M DDs.
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By Boredwithyou 2013-05-13 17:00:40
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Then they just need to form their own groups, sure they will get less plasm and take longer to get a weapon, but thats better than no delve weapon.
There hasnt been any shouts like that on Siren yet but im sure there will be eventually. But i.m.o they are usually idiots with elitist attitudes or a gimp themselves so no reason to even respond to their shout.
The few times ive gotten the resonse back with "weapon?" I take my time and write out every weapon for that job i have, even if i have to use 4/5 tells to list them all. Its my way to be a jackass back to the jackass. Personally i never ask to do an event unless im prepared for it, bcuz if u do go and gimp it up its a guarentee you wont get invited again. And this game is like a highschool locker room, that ***will spread fast and then no more invites.
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By Lakshmi.Eyrhika 2013-05-13 17:04:05
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Delve/Relic/Empy/Adoulin(crafted)/Mythic?
 Cerberus.Taint
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By Cerberus.Taint 2013-05-13 17:06:06
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Boredwithyou said: »
Sry to say r/e/m's are like having war widowmakers before delve weapons came out. They are that dominant. Sure when they update r/e/m's whenever they will be back on top but as of now there is no update scheduled. So either get with the program and max out a delve weapon or keep the 95/99 r/e/m only and do pre-adoulin content, or know you will be gimping the party and probably wont get invited unless its your LS members shouting. This is a mathematics game, and math doesnt care how hard you worked for your r/e/m, all its saying is delve weapons are superior by alot.
And these weapons are freaking easy to make. 30k pts or a lucky lotted drop should take a day or 2. Then either take your time and get the airlixirs by farming or if you got the gil just buy'm. 2 days to beat a r/e/m. Seems easy enough.


A base weapon is far more powerful then a R/E (I leave Mythics out because a few are still at the top) If you have lots of R/E/Ms your best bet is just to collect a few Delve weapons and slightly upgrade them until you see what they end up doing with R/E/Ms.
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 Lakshmi.Greggles
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By Lakshmi.Greggles 2013-05-13 17:07:01
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I'm having the opposite problem lol. I have groups still decline letting me join some groups(especially VW) on my Delve GK sam because it's not an REM. The few groups I joined they almost didn't let me get into a buffed DD party because of it. Even without buffs I still parsed 25-30% of the damage.

I think it ends up going both ways, really. It's honestly just idiots who think it has to be one way or nothing(imo).
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-05-13 17:16:13
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Lakshmi.Greggles said: »
I'm having the opposite problem lol. I have groups still decline letting me join some groups(especially VW) on my Delve GK sam because it's not an REM. The few groups I joined they almost didn't let me get into a buffed DD party because of it. Even without buffs I still parsed 25-30% of the damage.

I think it ends up going both ways, really. It's honestly just idiots who think it has to be one way or nothing(imo).
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By Boredwithyou 2013-05-13 17:16:53
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You know greggles thats funny. I have the sam problems in random pug plasm farms. I get stuck in the tank holding pt with no buffs besides pro/shell. I split off from them and run with 1 of the DD groups. It just makes me wonder, is the 85 ukon getting buffs over me bcuz they are trying to let him catch up in dmg or what? Seeing their buffed 1-2k ws then a delve unbuffed for 4-8k depending on spike is fun though
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