After someone shouted for Delve plasm farming lastnight and added DDs need Base Delve weapon or better a HUGE /yell war ensued so let's see if we can clear some of this up once and for all. I've hardly logged on over the past 3-4 weeks as I've been busy, started the day with 0 Plasm, KIs etc. I'm a warrior and have a 99Ukon.
That day an LS member said there was a shout I should attend for a Delve KI I'll need, so I did, took us a couple of attempts but we killed the moth, I then saw a plasm farming shout and joined it.
Coming back to the game within 4 hours I have a KI and 4.4k Plasm.
2 hours later a person I'm familiar with and respect as a player shouts for Delve Plasm farming adding Delve weapon DDs only (or words to that effect) I ask if he can sneak a 99 Ukon War in and he says "Sorry but it wouldn't be fair on the others :/ " He knows I'm a very good war as we've done plenty of things in the past, I know he also has a 99Ukon (and 99 Rag, Bravura etc etc) He assures me that at the moment the benfits of Delve weapons so greatly eclipse R/M/E that by taking Delve weapon DDs only they massively increase their farming productivity. I completely understand this and wish him well on his run.
Now cue the torrent of abuse via /sh "Just cos I don't have a delve weapon it doesn't mean I'm a bad player, *** you retards" and so on it goes.
Apart from the people that had insta bruised ego from their relic not entitling them to top DD status anymore does anyone think it's genuinely unfair to say Delve weapon only? Without much time or effort I acquired 1/7 of a Delve weapon, I just can't farm with the big boys....yet
Delve Weapons Only
Delve weapons only
The one who organizes the run can do as he pleases.
If anyone doesn't like it, they can make their own run.
If anyone doesn't like it, they can make their own run.
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Last night I was in a Qilin with my 85Caladbolg drk and parsed 27%, Bereaver drk(100 d more than me) 22% and rest of the alli 11% and below. Yes, the weapons are strong, but if you suck you'll still suck(you're just likely to suck less). If you're not able to farm fodder mobs with relics and empies you have other issues that won't be solved with delve weapons either...
And besides, how are you supposed to get the delve weapon without the delve farming?
And besides, how are you supposed to get the delve weapon without the delve farming?
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That person is an idiot. I wouldn't get discouraged because of it. Delve weapons are definitely nice to have but are in no way required to plasm farm effectively.
It's been my own experience that plasm farming is most limited by the efficiency of your pullers anyway. 99 Ukon should be more than enough to make a good contribution to the group.
It's been my own experience that plasm farming is most limited by the efficiency of your pullers anyway. 99 Ukon should be more than enough to make a good contribution to the group.
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First time I've heard of someone requiring DDs to have Delve weapons. Sounds pretty dumb to me. There are plenty of people I know that I'd rather bring on a Ragnarok DRK than a pick-up Bereaver DRK.
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The advantage from Delve weapons is pretty clear but I would still follow a case by case basis.
I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who can go toe to toe with most Delve owners in there despite my Amano 95. It's clearly not up to the Delve level but it's more than enough to deliver a proper result when farming plasms.
I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who can go toe to toe with most Delve owners in there despite my Amano 95. It's clearly not up to the Delve level but it's more than enough to deliver a proper result when farming plasms.
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Echoing "don't like it, make your own run". Delve has been out for more than enough time to start requiring its spoils to participate in certain groups.
And the, "people with x piece of gear can suck too" argument has never made a lick of sense. A person who sucks with a great piece of gear is better than a person who sucks with a subpar piece of gear.
And the, "people with x piece of gear can suck too" argument has never made a lick of sense. A person who sucks with a great piece of gear is better than a person who sucks with a subpar piece of gear.
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Didn't state otherwise. I did say you'll suck less with a better weapon.
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I always hated the 'you can suck with the better gear too' argument.
It's such a flawed argument that I can't believe it's as wide spread as it is.
It's such a flawed argument that I can't believe it's as wide spread as it is.
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Didn't state otherwise. I did say you'll suck less with a better weapon.
Then you acknowledge exactly why it's a non-argument
there are also jobs like whm brd pld cor you can farm on, so even if every run was delve weapon onry people should still be able to go.
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Alexander.Kryptonitic said: »
After someone shouted for Delve plasm farming lastnight and added DDs need Base Delve weapon or better a HUGE /yell war ensued so let's see if we can clear some of this up once and for all. I've hardly logged on over the past 3-4 weeks as I've been busy, started the day with 0 Plasm, KIs etc. I'm a warrior and have a 99Ukon.
That day an LS member said there was a shout I should attend for a Delve KI I'll need, so I did, took us a couple of attempts but we killed the moth, I then saw a plasm farming shout and joined it.
Coming back to the game within 4 hours I have a KI and 4.4k Plasm.
2 hours later a person I'm familiar with and respect as a player shouts for Delve Plasm farming adding Delve weapon DDs only (or words to that effect) I ask if he can sneak a 99 Ukon War in and he says "Sorry but it wouldn't be fair on the others :/ " He knows I'm a very good war as we've done plenty of things in the past, I know he also has a 99Ukon (and 99 Rag, Bravura etc etc) He assures me that at the moment the benfits of Delve weapons so greatly eclipse R/M/E that by taking Delve weapon DDs only they massively increase their farming productivity. I completely understand this and wish him well on his run.
Now cue the torrent of abuse via /sh "Just cos I don't have a delve weapon it doesn't mean I'm a bad player, *** you retards" and so on it goes.
Apart from the people that had insta bruised ego from their relic not entitling them to top DD status anymore does anyone think it's genuinely unfair to say Delve weapon only? Without much time or effort I acquired 1/7 of a Delve weapon, I just can't farm with the big boys....yet
That day an LS member said there was a shout I should attend for a Delve KI I'll need, so I did, took us a couple of attempts but we killed the moth, I then saw a plasm farming shout and joined it.
Coming back to the game within 4 hours I have a KI and 4.4k Plasm.
2 hours later a person I'm familiar with and respect as a player shouts for Delve Plasm farming adding Delve weapon DDs only (or words to that effect) I ask if he can sneak a 99 Ukon War in and he says "Sorry but it wouldn't be fair on the others :/ " He knows I'm a very good war as we've done plenty of things in the past, I know he also has a 99Ukon (and 99 Rag, Bravura etc etc) He assures me that at the moment the benfits of Delve weapons so greatly eclipse R/M/E that by taking Delve weapon DDs only they massively increase their farming productivity. I completely understand this and wish him well on his run.
Now cue the torrent of abuse via /sh "Just cos I don't have a delve weapon it doesn't mean I'm a bad player, *** you retards" and so on it goes.
Apart from the people that had insta bruised ego from their relic not entitling them to top DD status anymore does anyone think it's genuinely unfair to say Delve weapon only? Without much time or effort I acquired 1/7 of a Delve weapon, I just can't farm with the big boys....yet
Fair 'nuff. I chugged along and got what I could. Seekers of Adoulin comes out and I'm pleased to find that there's a GKT of significant power that's destined to fall into a nice price niche: Tomonari. From what I've read, it's comparable to 90 Masa. Within a couple weeks of SoA, I get all the staple pieces and some luxuries (Mala, capped haste equips).
However, when it comes to acquiring rougher equips, I have to resort to joining PUGs (primarily talking NNI in this instance). Unfortunately, this comes with the "RME only" stamp that keeps me out, despite the fact that Tomo is similar to Masa 90 in power. Not to mention that most Masa SAMs I see milling about don't even know how to haste cap and/or 5-hit their Empy; "wearing full AF3+2 ought to fix that!"
I hope I'm not diverting too much from OP, but it is the same case you've fallen under. Don't have a particular weapon? NOPE. Doesn't matter if you're someone who full-times a hybrid TP/WS set or someone who actually knows what they're doing, with defined sets for certain situations.
I hate to support something like armor points to set someone's worth to a number, but at least it wouldn't be as simple as "what weapon is he using?"
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The mayority of jps on this side off the universe all just take delve weapon DD onry to Delve farms.
But realisticly iff you have a capped R/E/M you shouldnt be bother'd since its mainly uglyGK that pulls ahead with Shoha in Delve.
I have np keeping up with j. beriever drks with my rag99.
(with sum exceptions ofc)
But realisticly iff you have a capped R/E/M you shouldnt be bother'd since its mainly uglyGK that pulls ahead with Shoha in Delve.
I have np keeping up with j. beriever drks with my rag99.
(with sum exceptions ofc)
...and if you took the time to unlock a proper GSD, you'd be performing substantially better
How can people not see how silly that line of thinking is?
How can people not see how silly that line of thinking is?
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Let me eviscerate further. As an apology for those who shout for X only, between a stranger with a Widowmaker and a stranger with a Bereaver you'll always take the latter, no doubt. The Provenance runs my ls used to do on Phoenix went through gearchecks cause we didn't want to deal with 2 hours and half of bs. So I'm not foreign to the concept. However what I said was in the context of fodder farm, whereas a 99Ukon(from a player whose known to be supposedely good - self-stated so not verified on our part)shouldn't be needed to be discriminated over a stranger with a delve gaxe.
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Fenrir.Fulgore said: »
The mayority of jps on this side off the universe all just take delve weapon DD onry to Delve farms.
But realisticly iff you have a capped R/E/M you shouldnt be bother'd since its mainly uglyGK that pulls ahead with Shoha in Delve.
I have np keeping up with j. beriever drks with my rag99.
(with sum exceptions ofc)
But realisticly iff you have a capped R/E/M you shouldnt be bother'd since its mainly uglyGK that pulls ahead with Shoha in Delve.
I have np keeping up with j. beriever drks with my rag99.
(with sum exceptions ofc)
I don't know whether to sigh over the obnoxiousness of you trying to pat your own ego, bang my head against my desk over your lack of basic understanding of performance fundamentals or facepalm over your usage of anecdotes.
Pick one and we'll go from there.
If there's anything more obnoxious than, "waahhh my weapons are outdated, I'm quitting!!" was, it's, "waahhh one of the five groups going to Delve at any given time on any given server won't take me because I haven't taken a few hours to equip myself properly!!"
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Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
If there's anything more obnoxious than, "waahhh my weapons are outdated, I'm quitting!!" was, it's, "waahhh one of the five groups going to Delve at any given time on any given server won't take me because I haven't taken a few hours to equip myself properly!!"
I vote 'I have meh gear and I did better than someone who has better gear that one time. Someone praise me~'.
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Let me eviscerate further. As an apology for those who shout for X only, between a stranger with a Widowmaker and a stranger with a Bereaver you'll always take the latter, no doubt. The Provenance runs my ls used to do on Phoenix went through gearchecks cause we didn't want to deal with 2 hours and half of bs. So I'm not foreign to the concept. However what I said was in the context of fodder farm, whereas a 99Ukon(from a player whose known to be supposedely good - self-stated so not verified on our part)shouldn't be needed to be discriminated over a stranger with a delve gaxe.
Specific instances like that are one thing, but the notion that there's something wrong with demanding a substantially better weapon that takes at most a few hours to complete is asinine
Start/find a group that doesn't care or change jobs. It didn't suddenly become damning to have standards
I'm not complaining about not being allowed to join. I'm with the your run, your rules philosophy especially as base delve weapons can be made in 2-3 days of casual farming with PUGs. Doing VW with R/E/M only groups has tought me the people that seek out the better equipment and continously pursue better items ""usually"" are the better players. With the content getting more difficult and the level cap staying the same SE has said they're gonna use equipment to reflect this. It's like saying in 2004 "Dynamis farming, lvl70+ only, sorry but your well geared 69war/nin isn't good enough. Come back when you've put another week in to making it 70+"
Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
Echoing "don't like it, make your own run". Delve has been out for more than enough time to start requiring its spoils to participate in certain groups.
Delve has been out for what, 2 weeks now? Sorry we all don't race to burn through the new content the second its released. Take the stick out of your *** and realize not everyone's life revolves around FFXI.
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Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Let me eviscerate further. As an apology for those who shout for X only, between a stranger with a Widowmaker and a stranger with a Bereaver you'll always take the latter, no doubt. The Provenance runs my ls used to do on Phoenix went through gearchecks cause we didn't want to deal with 2 hours and half of bs. So I'm not foreign to the concept. However what I said was in the context of fodder farm, whereas a 99Ukon(from a player whose known to be supposedely good - self-stated so not verified on our part)shouldn't be needed to be discriminated over a stranger with a delve gaxe.
Specific instances like that are one thing, but the notion that there's something wrong with demanding a substantially better weapon that takes at most a few hours to complete is asinine
Start/find a group that doesn't care or change jobs. It didn't suddenly become damning to have standards
However, you need plasma to get that better weapon, so that is why you require the appropriate relic, empy or whatever is best for your respective job. So excluding someone cause they're supposed to have the target of what they're aiming for can be a bit difficult to mix.
edit: spelling
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Funniest part about it all is, the leaders who want the best of the best geared players to farm for the gear that they want in their alliance are usually far too stupid to actually do their farming in the appropriate zone, opting instead to do it in a far inferior one. Dat irony.
I'll gladly take someone I know is a good player who has at least an acceptable weapon over some dumbfuck that I don't know who just happens to have a Bereaver, the chances of the Bereaver *** up my run and lowering my overall plasm gain for that run are much higher than the person I know to actually have more than a quarter of a brain doing so. A weapon with 438954D won't magically turn a bad into someone who I care to do things with, which is the entire point of Seha's argument.
I'll gladly take someone I know is a good player who has at least an acceptable weapon over some dumbfuck that I don't know who just happens to have a Bereaver, the chances of the Bereaver *** up my run and lowering my overall plasm gain for that run are much higher than the person I know to actually have more than a quarter of a brain doing so. A weapon with 438954D won't magically turn a bad into someone who I care to do things with, which is the entire point of Seha's argument.
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Valefor.Darrtt said: »
Take the stick out of your *** and realize not everyone's life revolves around FFXI.
I'm not sure you realize which playerbase you're talking about.
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Valefor.Darrtt said: »
Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
Echoing "don't like it, make your own run". Delve has been out for more than enough time to start requiring its spoils to participate in certain groups.
Delve has been out for what, 2 weeks now? Sorry we all don't race to burn through the new content the second its released. Take the stick out of your *** and realize not everyone's life revolves around FFXI.
A bad fracture group will finish a weapon in a few hours, get the hell out of here with "omgad its only ben 2 weeks u stinkin elitist"
Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
...and if you took the time to unlock a proper GSD, you'd be performing substantially better
How can people not see how silly that line of thinking is?
How can people not see how silly that line of thinking is?
Your silly for assumming w/e it is you do!
I will not spend my plasm on a gs that is beter for the time beeing, I like my rag99 and SE allready mentioned the upgrades.
Your just asumming i bring my drk or war wich isnt the case.
I let all you j. beriever hobo's do the work while i slack it off on COR!
And i have nuff plasm to buy mutliple GS IFF i wanted..
But i rather spend it on jobs i dont have a relic99 for !
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
So excluding someone cause they're supposed to have the target of what they're aiming for can be a bit difficult to mix.
If their shout or job change functions are malfunctioning? Sure
Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
A bad fracture group will finish a weapon in a few hours, get the hell out of here with "omgad its only ben 2 weeks u stinkin elitist"
You're still missing your logic's major flaw. If you can't get into runs to farm, you don't get the plasm to buy the weapon.
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Being super picky about your support jobs rather than DD would probably lead to a more productive run .~.
"Do you know what a Haste rotation is? Can you buff in-between pulls? Will main-healing a party make you fall asleep halfway through the run?"
"Do you know what a Haste rotation is? Can you buff in-between pulls? Will main-healing a party make you fall asleep halfway through the run?"
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