Job Adjustments (12/03/2010)
Job Adjustments (12/03/2010)
IC.. well heres hoping the do some tweaks to dnc main, and make it ***hot again... i cant see them totally nerfing a job just so the /dnc is good... they have done adjustments to all other jobs in these past updates to make the main still substantial
Leviathan.Niniann said:
Phoenix.Degs said:
Even how it is, its still not a shitty job, they just made /dnc all that much better... soloing will likely be so ungodly easy now, which is nice for casual gamers... but i dont think that DNC will be totally scratched form pt setups at all.. they can still do all the same things that they were able to do before...
im sure people said the same thing about nin too when people were first able to get ute:ni when /nin...."why be nin main when everyone will have ute:ni" but people still play nin and its still applicable to the game
im sure people said the same thing about nin too when people were first able to get ute:ni when /nin...."why be nin main when everyone will have ute:ni" but people still play nin and its still applicable to the game
DNC will still be a fine solo job (worse than Ninja) but it's lost everything that gave it it's appeal for parties. I'll quote myself sec, going to edit this.
Edit:
Leviathan.Niniann said:
For people who don't understand why /DNC is as good as DNC, and why we're mad is simply this.
Waltz 3 is the only Waltz a Dancer should ever use, even with the addition of 5 (4 is garbage). Unless they split timers (doesn't seem like they will at this point), then this whole rant means nothing. COR/DNC, NIN/DNC etc has access to everything that makes DNC useful, and more. They also have Anwig Salade for recast timer, etc.
Haste Samba. With the *new* 'Delay Reduction Cap' most jobs are only benefiting from a few %'s of Haste Samba anyway (~5% or less, which oh noes /DNC gets!). Because of this, our Haste Samba merits are useless in group situations nowadays to be quite frank.
I'm not sure how well Violent Flourish will stick on /DNC (since lax Casaque), but I'm sure with the proper gear it'll be a decent stickrate, if not the same as a DNC main. It's also--for those who don't know--a stun on a 15sec timer.
*** yeah loljobs.
Waltz 3 is the only Waltz a Dancer should ever use, even with the addition of 5 (4 is garbage). Unless they split timers (doesn't seem like they will at this point), then this whole rant means nothing. COR/DNC, NIN/DNC etc has access to everything that makes DNC useful, and more. They also have Anwig Salade for recast timer, etc.
Haste Samba. With the *new* 'Delay Reduction Cap' most jobs are only benefiting from a few %'s of Haste Samba anyway (~5% or less, which oh noes /DNC gets!). Because of this, our Haste Samba merits are useless in group situations nowadays to be quite frank.
I'm not sure how well Violent Flourish will stick on /DNC (since lax Casaque), but I'm sure with the proper gear it'll be a decent stickrate, if not the same as a DNC main. It's also--for those who don't know--a stun on a 15sec timer.
*** yeah loljobs.
ok first Degs.. LOL /nin was NEVER as good as nin main with shadows due to 4 shadows on ni over 3...over time thats a gigantic differnce..and now with AF3+2 nin even gets 5/4 on ni/ichi... ya... nin is definitely still applicable, and always was..
@nin, well I see what you're saying with dnc main, you're forgetting a few points for the pro's for dnc main i think... 1) fan dance tanking is amazing.. 2) /dnc will not get saber dance as a means to radically produce TP (as well as good OaT hit weapons..cuz the 2-3 hit 2h weapons are kinda bleh)...lets see..lets see... 2 FM per step on dnc main is still pretty huge..and thats not even tying in presto (i believe it gives more FM, but dont quote me on that, cuz i'm not up there on dnc yet, its only 46 or so)... bigger haste samba allows others to tweak gear sets for haste according to add more STR or att or acc or DA or STP.. overall its still a GOOD thing to get a dnc main for haste samba.... feather step is nice and dnc's DoT is quite nice with the AF3+1 shoes (from what i understand when that daze is on, you can occasionally get double crit dmg with those shoes on...could be wrong though)... and the average job /dnc won't get the TP for waltz 3 for a long time, cuz lets face it..dnc gets a lot of TP from EFFICIENT reverse flourish (and merits never hurt that) and efficient steps (1 step 1 FM on /dnc kills reverse flourish as a TP option really)
edit: furthermore lets go ahead and look at a job that got all its "good stuff" put on /job... Samurai... Sekkanoki (which has NO nerf on /sam) hasso (barely nerfed on /sam) and meditate (nerfed but still efficient) and seigan/third eye (not gimped whatsoever on /sam)... all of these things still don't bug my sam, as my sam can still put it out there with the best of um.. i tend to just let my main shine and not worry about what others can do with my sub, as my main jobs still have plenty of worth
Ifrit.Eikechi said:
Leviathan.Niniann said:
Phoenix.Degs said:
Even how it is, its still not a shitty job, they just made /dnc all that much better... soloing will likely be so ungodly easy now, which is nice for casual gamers... but i dont think that DNC will be totally scratched form pt setups at all.. they can still do all the same things that they were able to do before...
im sure people said the same thing about nin too when people were first able to get ute:ni when /nin...."why be nin main when everyone will have ute:ni" but people still play nin and its still applicable to the game
im sure people said the same thing about nin too when people were first able to get ute:ni when /nin...."why be nin main when everyone will have ute:ni" but people still play nin and its still applicable to the game
DNC will still be a fine solo job (worse than Ninja) but it's lost everything that gave it it's appeal for parties. I'll quote myself sec, going to edit this.
Edit:
Leviathan.Niniann said:
For people who don't understand why /DNC is as good as DNC, and why we're mad is simply this.
Waltz 3 is the only Waltz a Dancer should ever use, even with the addition of 5 (4 is garbage). Unless they split timers (doesn't seem like they will at this point), then this whole rant means nothing. COR/DNC, NIN/DNC etc has access to everything that makes DNC useful, and more. They also have Anwig Salade for recast timer, etc.
Haste Samba. With the *new* 'Delay Reduction Cap' most jobs are only benefiting from a few %'s of Haste Samba anyway (~5% or less, which oh noes /DNC gets!). Because of this, our Haste Samba merits are useless in group situations nowadays to be quite frank.
I'm not sure how well Violent Flourish will stick on /DNC (since lax Casaque), but I'm sure with the proper gear it'll be a decent stickrate, if not the same as a DNC main. It's also--for those who don't know--a stun on a 15sec timer.
*** yeah loljobs.
Waltz 3 is the only Waltz a Dancer should ever use, even with the addition of 5 (4 is garbage). Unless they split timers (doesn't seem like they will at this point), then this whole rant means nothing. COR/DNC, NIN/DNC etc has access to everything that makes DNC useful, and more. They also have Anwig Salade for recast timer, etc.
Haste Samba. With the *new* 'Delay Reduction Cap' most jobs are only benefiting from a few %'s of Haste Samba anyway (~5% or less, which oh noes /DNC gets!). Because of this, our Haste Samba merits are useless in group situations nowadays to be quite frank.
I'm not sure how well Violent Flourish will stick on /DNC (since lax Casaque), but I'm sure with the proper gear it'll be a decent stickrate, if not the same as a DNC main. It's also--for those who don't know--a stun on a 15sec timer.
*** yeah loljobs.
ok first Degs.. LOL /nin was NEVER as good as nin main with shadows due to 4 shadows on ni over 3...over time thats a gigantic differnce..and now with AF3+2 nin even gets 5/4 on ni/ichi... ya... nin is definitely still applicable, and always was..
@nin, well I see what you're saying with dnc main, you're forgetting a few points for the pro's for dnc main i think... 1) fan dance tanking is amazing.. 2) /dnc will not get saber dance as a means to radically produce TP (as well as good OaT hit weapons..cuz the 2-3 hit 2h weapons are kinda bleh)...lets see..lets see... 2 FM per step on dnc main is still pretty huge..and thats not even tying in presto (i believe it gives more FM, but dont quote me on that, cuz i'm not up there on dnc yet, its only 46 or so)... bigger haste samba allows others to tweak gear sets for haste according to add more STR or att or acc or DA or STP.. overall its still a GOOD thing to get a dnc main for haste samba.... feather step is nice and dnc's DoT is quite nice with the AF3+1 shoes (from what i understand when that daze is on, you can occasionally get double crit dmg with those shoes on...could be wrong though)... and the average job /dnc won't get the TP for waltz 3 for a long time, cuz lets face it..dnc gets a lot of TP from EFFICIENT reverse flourish (and merits never hurt that) and efficient steps (1 step 1 FM on /dnc kills reverse flourish as a TP option really)
edit: furthermore lets go ahead and look at a job that got all its "good stuff" put on /job... Samurai... Sekkanoki (which has NO nerf on /sam) hasso (barely nerfed on /sam) and meditate (nerfed but still efficient) and seigan/third eye (not gimped whatsoever on /sam)... all of these things still don't bug my sam, as my sam can still put it out there with the best of um.. i tend to just let my main shine and not worry about what others can do with my sub, as my main jobs still have plenty of worth
the point was that just because a sub gets some good stuff doesnt make the main any less applicable to the game, i used nin as an example because of shadows... you used /sam as an example there too in your post, just because people get sekk. doesnt mean main sam is now ***... i do understand what everyone is saying about CW3, i was just trying to make the DNC's who have been posting feel a lil better i guess
no degs, i think i missed it a lil, but i was agreeing in the end lol i think i just worded it a lil odd in my section directed towards you :( sorry mate
SE will do adjustments, they have a long history of giving and taking away shortly after a big update, they really should change Emergency maintenance to Nerf central.. because thats what usually occurs within that time frame
Ifrit.Eikechi said:
no degs, i think i missed it a lil, but i was agreeing in the end lol i think i just worded it a lil odd in my section directed towards you :( sorry mate
Ifrit.Eikechi said:
@nin, well I see what you're saying with dnc main, you're forgetting a few points for the pro's for dnc main i think... 1) fan dance tanking is amazing..
It's not bad, but NIN or MNK is still the better DD tank.
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2) /dnc will not get saber dance as a means to radically produce TP
Not many situations where that's absolutely needed, and if it is needed I'm sure you'll have a WHM around.
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(as well as good OaT hit weapons..cuz the 2-3 hit 2h weapons are kinda bleh)
COR can use Joytoy or Mkris to produce TP, BRD can use Joy/Parazonium/Mkris, THF can use Parazonium/Mkris, etc etc. I'm not saying a SAM/DNC would be a healer, I'm mostly saying a COR, BRD, or THF would take over the duties of a DNC.
Quote:
...lets see..lets see... 2 FM per step on dnc main is still pretty huge..and thats not even tying in presto (i believe it gives more FM, but dont quote me on that, cuz i'm not up there on dnc yet, its only 46 or so)
Reverse Flourish is break-even (with merits etc) with the time it takes to Step vs how much you could've been meleeing for. Presto is nice only because it gives more debuffs on the mob, but I wouldn't take a DNC just for their steps :/
Quote:
... bigger haste samba allows others to tweak gear sets for haste according to add more STR or att or acc or DA or STP.. overall its still a GOOD thing to get a dnc main for haste samba....
I don't really know how much you could tweak. Can't really move any of the jobs' AF3+2 ***, and most jobs give a ton of haste, etc on those pieces.
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feather step is nice and dnc's DoT is quite nice with the AF3+1 shoes (from what i understand when that daze is on, you can occasionally get double crit dmg with those shoes on...could be wrong though)...
Feather step is nice, but using say a COR over a DNC is better. No one really knows what the shoes do yet, so we can't really say. :/ It's just tons of speculation.
Quote:
and the average job /dnc won't get the TP for waltz 3 for a long time, cuz lets face it..dnc gets a lot of TP from EFFICIENT reverse flourish (and merits never hurt that) and efficient steps (1 step 1 FM on /dnc kills reverse flourish as a TP option really)
COR with Mkris+Joytoy and buffs will get TP fast enough to maintain Waltz 3. They also get access to Anwig Salade and whatever the *** the pants are called that have -5 TP for waltzes. Reverse Flourish on DNC main is only to get back the TP you spent using the Steps to debuff the mob, it's nothing more. And yes, RF would be dumb on /DNC, I'd only step to get FMs for Violent Flourish.
why is waltz 4 so shitty? (i can understand the 21s waltz 5 (anwig salade) but idk the mechanics of waltz 4... and i would think all of the stuff i mentioned would help dnc main's case...cuz i was wrong >< good thing mine is only 45 or 46 atm eh? lulz ><
edit: and the AF3+1 shoe thing with double crit is EASILY tested in or out of abyssea (just easier in abyssea to see because you crit so often with RR atma..all you have to look for are huge dmg spikes in crits)... so if its true, then they are awesome
edit: and the AF3+1 shoe thing with double crit is EASILY tested in or out of abyssea (just easier in abyssea to see because you crit so often with RR atma..all you have to look for are huge dmg spikes in crits)... so if its true, then they are awesome
Ifrit.Eikechi said:
why is waltz 4 so shitty? (i can understand the 21s waltz 5 (anwig salade) but idk the mechanics of waltz 4... and i would think all of the stuff i mentioned would help dnc main's case...cuz i was wrong >< good thing mine is only 45 or 46 atm eh? lulz ><
edit: and the AF3+1 shoe thing with double crit is EASILY tested in or out of abyssea (just easier in abyssea to see because you crit so often with RR atma..all you have to look for are huge dmg spikes in crits)... so if its true, then they are awesome
edit: and the AF3+1 shoe thing with double crit is EASILY tested in or out of abyssea (just easier in abyssea to see because you crit so often with RR atma..all you have to look for are huge dmg spikes in crits)... so if its true, then they are awesome
Waltz4 sucks because Waltz3 is way more HP cured over time. I'd do the simple math but I'm hungry and I need to go eat. :(
lol i trust your work nini..i saw your amazing guide you posted on here (i believe it was the ins and outs of dnc or some jazz..i have to re-read it for my own sake anyways) so its all good ^^ i guess 4 and 5 are "oh ***" waltzes
Yay my only jobs lvled are Pld and Drk and I was planning on coming back tomorrow after a 2 month leave but not with an update that makes what I have useless. Not to mention it wasn't easy looking for a group before I left can only imagine how terrible it is now.
i think CW 4 for the same respects as Cure 4 is basically garbage.. it is not efficient and draws more hate.. though im not 100% on what that hate gen would be on Cw 4
Ifrit.Eikechi said:
lol i trust your work nini..i saw your amazing guide you posted on here (i believe it was the ins and outs of dnc or some jazz..i have to re-read it for my own sake anyways) so its all good ^^ i guess 4 and 5 are "oh ***" waltzes
they're not even great as "oh ***" waltzes, unless the mob's about to die, or it won't damage or debuff anyone for 15s.
Ramuh.Lorzy said:
Ifrit.Eikechi said:
lol i trust your work nini..i saw your amazing guide you posted on here (i believe it was the ins and outs of dnc or some jazz..i have to re-read it for my own sake anyways) so its all good ^^ i guess 4 and 5 are "oh ***" waltzes
they're not even great as "oh ***" waltzes, unless the mob's about to die, or it won't damage or debuff anyone for 15s.
This. They're pretty much unusable under any circumstance. Waltz IV is supposed to have about the same enmity- as Cure V.
brd/dnc in a party. hmmm....
Presto sucks in all honesty, Yeah it doubles potency, but have to wait 15 seconds after popping to use it and you only get 1 FM more than you would, which makes it normally only good at the start of a mob. Any other time and you're missing the opportunity to do another step. It's double-edged really on that part.
Here's to hoping AF3 Body/Hands have some form on Waltz Recast - on them!
Here's to hoping AF3 Body/Hands have some form on Waltz Recast - on them!
Also, even experimenting with /DNC, taking the time (and TP) Reverse Flourish gives you a whopping 10 TP more than what you would put in (compared to the 30 TP cost and up to 75 TP return on DNC main) I'm not saying /DNC should be using RF and waste time putting steps on a mob, but SE really does need to really 'impress' us with the AF3 Body/Hands/Next R/E Accessory (anticipating a waist slot item)
Asura.Yunalaysca said:
brd/dnc in a party. hmmm....
It was neat before the update, it'll be amazing after. Only downside is the TP gear is old ***, so is some of the WS gear.
Wala/agasaya/brutal/suppa
goliard/dusk+1/rajas/toreadors
cuch/bullwhip/byakko's/dusk+1
can use angel lyre for haste too
Yeah that's true, but you hit 26% with this setup unless I can't count, and I can't think of an efficient swap with that. But it's useful if you don't have dusk+1, etc.
oh, i counted 28 so i thought it'd be good to use instead of goliard (dw body or just something with acc), or with nq dusk and goading belt or something
Sylph.Chrisstreb said:
Presto sucks in all honesty, Yeah it doubles potency, but have to wait 15 seconds after popping to use it and you only get 1 FM more than you would, which makes it normally only good at the start of a mob. Any other time and you're missing the opportunity to do another step. It's double-edged really on that part.
Here's to hoping AF3 Body/Hands have some form on Waltz Recast - on them!
Here's to hoping AF3 Body/Hands have some form on Waltz Recast - on them!
Um, what? Did you miss the update months ago where they split presto's timer from steps?
[+]
Phoenix.Degs said:
SE will do adjustments, they have a long history of giving and taking away shortly after a big update, they really should change Emergency maintenance to Nerf central.. because thats what usually occurs within that time frame
Diabolos.Drago said:
and this is why X is the ***.
Am I pissed about cwIII on /dnc....only slightly. I will never stop playing dnc, whether it's solo or in pts. I would love to see a /dnc try to main heal a pt in Abbysea that is pting on a mob family that AoEs or hits really hard with cwIII :D
Just to quickly clear up a misconception I found on page 2:
Someone said: "Sch gets an extra charge at 90, too bad they don't get chargers faster". How charges have worked thus far is that all charges are charged in a 4 min time period. For instance, if you only have 1 charge, it takes 4 mins to recharge, if you have 2 charges, its 2 mins each. At 75 with 4 charges, it was 1 min each. So hopefully (AND PLEASE GOD LET IT BE THIS WAY), at 90 with 5 charges, that would make it 48 seconds per charge.
Someone said: "Sch gets an extra charge at 90, too bad they don't get chargers faster". How charges have worked thus far is that all charges are charged in a 4 min time period. For instance, if you only have 1 charge, it takes 4 mins to recharge, if you have 2 charges, its 2 mins each. At 75 with 4 charges, it was 1 min each. So hopefully (AND PLEASE GOD LET IT BE THIS WAY), at 90 with 5 charges, that would make it 48 seconds per charge.
From a solo /DNC point of view, I haven't noticed anyone mention that nice Waltz that cures status ailments, too. Another great solo tool, brought to you by /DNC.
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