Mandau & Offhand Dagger

you're

Ok i rush a lot..and i dont normally mispell so :D

:D

(couldn't resist)

:D

Do people ever use the preview button?

Lolol facepalm.

I don't. D:

Nope, hence my constant ninja editing.

True, I've noticed those!

Ironically enough, even though I usually preview my posts, I still tend to ninja edit them sometimes...

wow the discussion heated a bit at page 2. Now it has cooled down and i wasn't here;;

Well i was bored cause there was nothing going on at the game or at the television so i did some math to sate my own curiosity. Here goes~
OAT dps is 16% higher than OA2-3. So OA2-3, to beat it, would need over 16% increase on tp gain (more actually, cause thf tp/ws damage split favors tp phase). OA2-3 tp gain is only 6.4% higher tho... guess we have our answer right here^^
OAT and rapidus have nearly identical tp gain, but OAT does have higher dps (6.4% higher). But i didn't account the haste and acc on rapidus.

offhand 80 Mandau!

Ironically enough, after much delaying the inevitable, I'm working on a Twashtar now... so the Mandau could be in the offhand afterall...

I've not spoken with a mandau thief in a long while, but i am highly doubting mercy stroke is pure garbage now with all the STR atma, in fact i'm quite sure mercy stroke having high STR% mod would do a good bit more than evisc. As for offhand, if you want better #'s on WS, kila 8str looks sexy, evasion if soloing/duoing, but i personally dont ever feel like i'm going wrong when i offhand rapidus sax for the haste and acc in my full haste build, and the sexy 150 delay should make up for auric dagger's dual wield. Thief for life!

Offhand Thief's knife. It even has your job in the name!

lol'd

Evisceration
Overall, Mercy Stroke does not get nearly the use of Evisceration does anymore. The most use that MS gets is pretty much 2x Darkness w/ my BLU friend who I do most things with using his Chant du'Cygne (sp?) + Benthic Typhoon. The crit bonuses are just too overpowering really. I have the Kila +2 for offhand atm with +9 STR/20attk. Good damage combo, but double damage from Emp's still wins out.

Might be worth considering Triplus Dagger. The synergy with AF+2 set augment in a full time TP build has potential.

With RR, AO, and Apoc atma's we're looking at anywhere between 45-60% triple attack. AF3+2 set gives you a chance at pseudo-relic triple procs on the second and third hits of those triple attacks. So if Triplus is anywhere near as good as say, X's Knife was for crits, then we're talking a huge bonus in DPS that probably pulls ahead of blitz building with RS.

i agree it's hard to let go of my x knife's. they should have made trials for it.

They should have made trials for a lot of ***, and made better improvement scaling for relics compared to roflEmpyrians, but people wanted easy mode.

Tying Abyssea/ToM upgrades to the quality of your previous gear = lots of casual QQ. They eat Abyssea up because it was basically a totem pole reset.

Main hand Twashtar off hand Mandau.

what about the twilight dagger ?

yea sucks after all those years of HNM fighting and getting best gear in the gear. now they are worthless. throw e body to the wind.

twashtar/twilight is the way to go~

you shouldnt need rapidus to hit haste cap >.> im at 27 without it so back to homam feet i go~



Don't QQ at my ring :(

Twilight over Triplus only offers an extra 3 swings per round. So long as that Triple Attack augment is anything halfway decent, I can't see Quadruple Attack being a deal breaker. It's gonna depend on the quality and frequency of that TP drain.

This also depends if this even procs on weapon skills and if it stacks with the bonus proc from the AF3+2 set as well. You will be swinging faster with the Triplus so in the end i guess its going to be a number crunching game between the two.

I don't see any reason why Triplus wouldn't stack with AF3+2 set effect. They are most likely different. I'm going to guess the Triplus effect is something like X's knife with an attack or pdif bonus, or maybe some tricky ***like damage based on DEX.

The proc rate on Twilight is @ 100% on everything outside of Dark based mobs, as it can be resisted.

TP Drain goes as high as 10TP drained, and procs roughly 30% of the time, i'd say ~35%MP, 35% HP.

HP Drains about 5, MP can drain 0(no MP on mob) to about 7 i saw.

With that being said, It has its situations, and is a great dagger if you get your hand on it.

Quadruple Attack, while only 3% is not "HUR HUR ITS DBL ATK+6% HUR HUR", the TP gain through Quad-Attack, and the ability to Quad Attack on a Weaponskill (Particularly 1-hit Weaponskills that normally cap at 2-3 hits with Dbl/trpl proc) offers a much larger boost than looking at it like "3 extra hits per xxx rounds"

On top of that, Triplus' Daggers effect might be lamer than it sounds, Could be something like "10% Attack boost to triple-attacked hits", instead of a Straight Damage multiplier like Empyrean+2 set (which is Triple Damage)

Both will have their Uses, Should grab them if you can.

(Btw the HUR HUR DBL is not directed at the guy above me, Just a general consensus i see from bandwagon people who are too lazy to get the knife and dive for excuses to blow it off)

Ive been spamming BC for the twilight dagger, but where does triplus come from?

Quad attacking on a single hit WS isn't special either with multiple attack priority and when you consider that the single hit WS aren't natural criticals so they are pretty much trash. Evisceration is OP now and that's just fact. Even Mandau has sunk to new lows because the RR makes Evis ***on Mercy Stroke.

I'm a doubter of Twilight Knife because I don't think it works well with triple attack stacking atma which I think are going to be our cookie-cutter. Sure it can be a good dagger in some circumstances, but I see it really as a mainhand... when we're talking an ideal situation your main is Twashtar or Mandau, and I can't see this being a good offhand. A third of swings giving 10 TP boils down to giving 3 more TP than normal per swing. I don't think that's a winner for offhand, even with quad attack.

And the bandwagon is usually much more pro-Abyssea so it's most likely to be pro-Twilight.

At the moment im thinking twashtar/auric until i can snag a twashtar/twilight until i can snag a twashtar/triplus haha

twashtar/triplus > twashtar/twilight > twashtar/auric

I would think stacking triple attack is like stacking haste? you'd be sitting at..19% triple attack. Double attack would be at...8% i think if i remember correctly off the top of my head.

Along with the huge triple attack proc rate, that would mean we might see more AF3+2 proc rate. So far ive only seen it a couple of times, maybe i just dont pay attention enough. Im seeing 600-700 damage swings when i do catch it though.

I guess with a Mandau or Thwastar its situations are dampened significantly.
*and hur dur thread is Mandau/offhand*

However for the average THF, Twilight/Triplus is actually a really good combo.

Its got 3 Less damage than a Kila+2, And same delay, as well as significant bonuses that i think you scoff off too lightly in the eyes of questionable reasoning and math.

I'd imagine sometime soon (Hello 95/99 cap...) Twilight will indefinitely be replaced for just about everyone except being a toy (and hey, my RDM can use it, I'm sure it'll be used on RDM forever), but right now, for a Relic-less THF, Twilight/Triplus would be the best combo i can think of for the time being >(INSIDE)< Abyssea.

(for its Situation, obv high-Damage only it would change, Subtle blow would change it (Auric), or maybe Pure-speed would change (auric/Sax?))

(Cause of the nature of Abyssea, with a correct group <brds> and Stalwarts with the Atmas you should be using, You're nearly always capped on Attack/accuracy (bar a few certain mobs, Obviously))

I mean, TBH its not a hard Knife to come by once you get access to Shinryu fight, I'd pick it up if you had the chance, Cause It's useful for us non-mandau THFs, but to everyone else it is quite a fun toy, with the Activation rate being so darn high.


Also, Triplus Dagger comes from Igsebind, the Jormungand in Uleg. Range. I have a pop i plan on Blue'in low man soon where i will get my drop and post it on the Triplus Dagger page for hilarity, Since my comment on the page suggest Twilight > Triplus, and I'll have both, and those RAGERS will have neither.
lolololololol.

Edit: And i still think Triplus daggers usefulness will weigh very very heavily on its "Triple attack damage" boosts potency. For all we know it could very well be something like "Attack +5~10%" and it will be Completely unnoticable inside Abyssea with our capped or already close to capped Attack power (on <Most> things please mind you). In which case there would be no argument, Quad attack+3 > Triple Attack +3. They interact just fine, Triple Attack will proc the same rate with quad attack+3, Its Double attack you'd have to be worried about (Dbl procing over trpl,etc)
Edit2: Also, Atma of the Apocalypse is Boss. Triple attack:Superior. and i have it. and i use it. And i love it.