What's Good About FFXI.

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What's good about FFXI.
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 Ragnarok.Jessikah
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-10-25 09:05:36
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So many good songs in FFXI. Almost the entire soundtrack is pure fire. I was asked one time which was my favourite song from the game, and without sounding too cliche I literally couldn't choose. They're all exactly appropriate for what they represent. It's also hard to choose objectively because a lot of them hit nostalgia strings as well.

I've had Fighters of the Crystal stuck in my head all dang morning.
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By Mattelot 2021-10-25 09:11:11
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I feel you. While I like all of them for one reason or another, one that always comes to mind first when thinking of the XI soundtrack is the music from Selbina. I think it comes from so many memories of LFP while sitting in there.
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 Asura.Vyre
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By Asura.Vyre 2021-10-25 09:17:14
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Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
So many good songs in FFXI. Almost the entire soundtrack is pure fire. I was asked one time which was my favourite song from the game, and without sounding too cliche I literally couldn't choose. They're all exactly appropriate for what they represent. It's also hard to choose objectively because a lot of them hit nostalgia strings as well.

I've had Fighters of the Crystal stuck in my head all dang morning.

FFXI's music is beautiful. It's kind of funny. A girl I dated in college hadn't been into it due to money, and I was trying to share the music from the game with her.

Fighters of the Crystal is a theme I consider to be super bad ***. I've got all the context for it though, and she had none. She said that it was awful, and I've never felt quite as much consternation as anything else.

My favorite track in FFXI is easily Wail of the Void though. Way way way way waaaay more beautiful than any other track, especially if you've got the context.

Also probably one of my favorite things about Draylo is he's got a lot of XI tracks uploaded on Youtube.
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 Ragnarok.Jessikah
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-10-25 09:33:31
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Asura.Vyre said: »
Fighters of the Crystal is a theme I consider to be super bad ***. I've got all the context for it though, and she had none. She said that it was awful, and I've never felt quite as much consternation as anything else.
That's the thing. The quality of a song is often judged subjectively by how it makes you feel. If those emotions stem from the song's connection to something else, it might not have to be a particularly good song out of context.

Like, I love music from Chains of Promathia. But with just a few exceptions, I'd hesitate to play that music for a non-FFXI player because the audio quality of those songs are actually very poor. Without knowing what it meant to hear those first few wind instrument notes from the Tavnazian Archipelago, it sounds really synthesized. But after the extremely challenging boss fights in the Promyvion towers listening to Turmoil, it was so rewarding that my brain connected the relief to the beauty of the song.
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 Asura.Vyre
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By Asura.Vyre 2021-10-25 09:39:09
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Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
Asura.Vyre said: »
Fighters of the Crystal is a theme I consider to be super bad ***. I've got all the context for it though, and she had none. She said that it was awful, and I've never felt quite as much consternation as anything else.
That's the thing. The quality of a song is often judged subjectively by how it makes you feel. If those emotions stem from the song's connection to something else, it might not have to be a particularly good song out of context.

Like, I love music from Chains of Promathia. But with just a few exceptions, I'd hesitate to play that music for a non-FFXI player because the audio quality of those songs are actually very poor. Without knowing what it meant to hear those first few wind instrument notes from the Tavnazian Archipelago, it sounds really synthesized. But after the extremely challenging boss fights in the Promyvion towers listening to Turmoil, it was so rewarding that my brain connected the relief to the beauty of the song.

Faded Memories and then the musics from the zones in Sea are my favey from CoP.
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-10-25 09:48:06
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Faded Memories is definitely within my "S"-tier. I've written and run two one-off tabletop RPGs now, and I've worked that song into the ambience of both.
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-11-19 14:39:49
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Ah, to heck with it. I'm going to bump this thread. It's a good topic.

Another thing worth mentioning are the character voices. I'm very grateful that there's no spoken voice acting in the game, because historically it's always been pretty cringeworthy in this series. But more important than that is how each character's battle cries and grunts add tons to the combat.

While it's unfortunate that the character's voice is tied to the face chosen at character creation, it's neat that each face gets a completely unique set of combat voices. But most of all, it's worth mentioning that each voice actually sounds, y'know, good. It adds a lot of personality to the character.

I dunno what it is about other MMORPGs that misses the mark for me. They either have little to no combat noise, or they go with really bad Anime-sounding voices. Another one of those things that tends to strip the game immersion away for me.
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 Lakshmi.Elidyr
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By Lakshmi.Elidyr 2021-11-19 15:09:34
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Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
Another thing worth mentioning are the character voices. I'm very grateful that there's no spoken voice acting in the game, because historically it's always been pretty cringeworthy in this series. But more important than that is how each character's battle cries and grunts add tons to the combat.

HaRd 000F: This hit the spot for me. If this game had voice acting, I don't think I could do it. I have nightmares of Tidus still.
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By Rips 2021-11-19 15:42:47
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Lakshmi.Elidyr said: »
Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
Another thing worth mentioning are the character voices. I'm very grateful that there's no spoken voice acting in the game, because historically it's always been pretty cringeworthy in this series. But more important than that is how each character's battle cries and grunts add tons to the combat.

HaRd 000F: This hit the spot for me. If this game had voice acting, I don't think I could do it. I have nightmares of Tidus still.

Tidus is awesome and those are fighting words!
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By Rips 2021-11-19 15:44:28
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What’s good about FFXI is that you still have the ability (or at least, I do) to feel like your immersed in the world.

Where as with FFXIV from day one I felt like an adult standing in a sandbox.
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 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2021-11-19 16:08:02
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Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
While it's unfortunate that the character's voice is tied to the face chosen at character creation, it's neat that each face gets a completely unique set of combat voices. But most of all, it's worth mentioning that each voice actually sounds, y'know, good. It adds a lot of personality to the character.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? I didn't know this, lmao
 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-11-19 16:14:00
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FFXI is best when it embraces what makes it different from every other MMO out there right now, not when it tries to just be a different version of XIV or WoW or <fill in the blank>.

Embrace the grind, go neck deep in the pool of gear options and combinations, and no freebies. The idea that FFXI is going to attract new players in large enough numbers to matter in today's market is foolish. But keeping us die-hards that aren't going anywhere occupied and happy means we keep paying, and in my book that's the best direction they can hope for.
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By Asura.Saevel 2021-11-19 16:25:26
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The Job system and the uniqueness it brings is what makes FFXI unique. It's also what causes pain points in balance cause it's impossible with this many jobs without making them all the same *cough FFXIV*.
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 Lakshmi.Elidyr
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By Lakshmi.Elidyr 2021-11-19 16:33:11
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Rips said: »
Lakshmi.Elidyr said: »
Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
Another thing worth mentioning are the character voices. I'm very grateful that there's no spoken voice acting in the game, because historically it's always been pretty cringeworthy in this series. But more important than that is how each character's battle cries and grunts add tons to the combat.

HaRd 000F: This hit the spot for me. If this game had voice acting, I don't think I could do it. I have nightmares of Tidus still.

Tidus is awesome and those are fighting words!

Let the ballista begin!
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By Asura.Saevel 2021-11-19 17:09:46
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Ok got done reading through the backlog and I think there is some serious misconception on how developers work. There is not some giant pool of minions in identical uniforms that work to "develop" a game / program / platform / product. There are different teams staffed with different folks that have different skillsets and thus work on different parts of a platform.

Cosmetics falls squarely within the realm of the arts team, sometimes called resources due to their products being the in game resources that the content team then use's to paint everything. The content team is the one designing the dungeon layouts and epic boss fights. This is all separate from the systems team, whos job it is to design the various game systems within the game, that includes leveling, combat flow, damage formulas, character progression and so forth. Then we have engineering, these folks write the actual code that the game runs on. They are the ones who design and implement the mundane mechanical stuff that the previous teams work on and around.

So yeah the art folks spending a few more man hours on flashy cosmetics has zero impact on the systems team designing the new progression system. At most it means the content team only has sixty new assets to work with rather then the original request of eighty, so they gotta reuse some stuff.

The only real impact it would have is at the higher management level when funding new positions, instead of two new systems folks they instead fund two new art members so they can do more resources at once because the content team said they couldn't make the next product sell without at least five hundred new resources.
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-11-19 17:37:15
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I definitely agree with your comments above @Saevel- but I think many of us wonder with the limited staffing that SE has admitted FFXI now has, if some of those teams have consolidated tasks now.
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-11-19 17:49:21
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Leviathan.Draugo said: »
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? I didn't know this, lmao
I actually picked my main character's face because of the voice associated with it. I even went so far as to make a character with each face/voice to see which one I'd like best.

Each face in the game has a unique voice, even the Tarutaru faces which have more limited styles. There are 64 different voices in the game, which probably makes FFXI one of the most expansive in that area.

EDIT: You can hear samples of each in Altana Viewer. Though for some reason, it'll only ever play one each attacking, defending, and KO clip per voice. You can still get an idea of what to expect. I'm a very audio-reliant player, so I've actually picked up which faces are associated with which voices. I can tell what face any character is just by listening to them in combat lol...
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2021-11-19 19:05:30
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Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
I definitely agree with your comments above @Saevel- but I think many of us wonder with the limited staffing that SE has admitted FFXI now has, if some of those teams have consolidated tasks now.

FFXI doesn't have a dedicated team, it's handled by the FFXIV team as a sort of side-project.

Those teams can't really collapse because they each require wildly different skill sets, though indi and small shops often have to have folks wear multiple hats, and it shows.

Arts folks don't need to know anything about writing decent code, or balancing complex systems for sustainability or how humans interact within landscapes, they just need to be extremely good at model design, palette balance, animation fluidity and other aesthetics. They are the folks that make beautiful models, animations, colorful effects and so forth. Whenever we talk about games having "wonderful graphics", these are the folks we are talking about. All that reverse engineering SE had to do with the PS2 DevKits for FFXI, it was for these guys to be able to create assets.

Content folks don't need to understand complex mathematical systems or base coding, they do need to be very good at designing spaces for players to be in and battles for us to fight. Likewise systems folks don't really need to know 3D modeling or special effects, they do need to understand how to make a battle system that doesn't implode on itself and that players really want to engage in. Content and Systems are sometimes combined into one team in combat centered games due to how tightly they integrate but remember that content design and system design are different aspects of a game. Current FFXI producer Matsui was the one that did both FFXI and FFXIV's battle system along with Chrono Trigger and other SE games.

And Engineers are basically C++/C#/Java/<insert language here> programmers who write the engine and platform for a game. They really don't care about models, pallets, swords, stats and such, you want a network interface, they write you a network interface and so forth.

Writing a modern game really is a huge production requiring so many folks on many teams to coordinate and work together.

I've had the good luck to know this because one of the other big MMO's I play has an "unofficial" Discord server that is heavily frequently by the actual developers of the game. Frequented as in every morning around 8~9AM one of them does a "coffee hour" where we get to ask all sorts of questions of current and future stuff and he'll respond and interact. Their big item / systems design guys hangs out there all day and we get to give real time feedback on new combat systems, items, abilities along with providing bug reports. Folks from their content team drop in every now and then to discuss layouts and a few months back was a big discussion on "size" of dungeons, some of us like long complex dungeons that you can get lost in, while other players wanted shorter dungeons they could complete quickly. One day they broken down how most mature shops handle the design process and why the folks doing systems, who we interact with the most, aren't the same folks doing art or content and that sometimes systems folks just have to reuse animations and effects because none of the art people are available to create more animations and effects.

I really kinda wish we had this level of interaction with the FFXI devs, but I know that's probably not possible.
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-11-19 19:12:43
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VERY cool story about the other game you play, and the Discord 'coffee hour'- you're right, such interaction would be an amazing gift.
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By Lakshmi.Avereith 2021-11-19 19:47:23
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"What's good about FFXI."

At least you don't really run out of things to do!

If you think you do, ask me I'll tell you some stupid crap you can still get done for no reason
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By Asura.Saevel 2021-11-19 20:37:30
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Lakshmi.Avereith said: »
"What's good about FFXI."

At least you don't really run out of things to do!

If you think you do, ask me I'll tell you some stupid crap you can still get done for no reason

Hit level cap on all the top tier monsters in Monstrosity!
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By Asura.Saevel 2021-11-19 20:44:20
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Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
VERY cool story about the other game you play, and the Discord 'coffee hour'- you're right, such interaction would be an amazing gift.

So they just released a big patch and one of the items was reworking a certain enhancement system with the goal of reducing lag. Here is an excerpt from earlier today, Lich is the guy that does the loot and contributes with battle systems, Steel also does battle but focuses more on bigger picture stuff like character progression and battle mechanics.

Quote:
Lich — Today at 10:37 AM
Hey all, 24-hour performance change checkpoint: how's DDO doing, perf-wise? Experiencing any lag or performance problems?
Mang — Today at 10:37 AM
so far it's pretty good..reaper loads are much faster

Doodle — Today at 10:37 AM
It’s been amazing
So so so good

Tyreia The Stabby — Today at 10:38 AM
Feeling a lot better! ?

Triaxx2 (#FreeLichToReMonk) — Today at 10:38 AM
Still seems solid. Only had a second or so of victory lag running Thunderpeaks last night which is... I don't know the right word to describe how much better it is.

Mang — Today at 10:39 AM
while you're here though, do you know why invisibiity effects are causing movement speed issues?

Triaxx2 (#FreeLichToReMonk) — Today at 10:39 AM
Hard to run when you can't see your feet.

Mang — Today at 10:39 AM
maybe if you dumped dex ?
chest spawn lag is still a thing as well
but that's minor

SteelStar — Today at 10:54 AM
Yeah, we're definitely going to see a few other sources of lag still coming through - chest, spawn, particular quests, etc. But hopefully this is a lot of the (noticeable crushing lag on Reaper entry/exit), and (random huge pausing spikes, because you happened to be in the same sector of the server as someone with a lot of Reaper points doing a Reaper entry/exit)

And from yesterday when folks asked Steel how they were able to make sure a huge impact performance wise. Reaper is it's own difficulty tier that the higher end community is centered around, it has an entirely different set of special mechanics that come into play along with rewards and stat changes.

Quote:
SteelStar — Yesterday at 8:33 PM
Alright, in terms of how the change works on the back end, the short version.

Original Reaper: Every Reaper enhancement granted its bonus via an effect. This was heavy on the server, because top-end characters had ~120 extra effects being pulled on and off of them on every entry and exit.

Revised Reaper (changed a few years back): Bonuses from Reaper Enhancements were entirely done on the enhancement level, no effects, and on top-end characters we added and removed all ~120 enhancements you had on every entry and exit. The theory was an effectless solution would be lighter. It wasn't.

What this new version does is: Like all other enhancements, you get them and keep them at the time you take them. But instead of adding to stats, they add to background imaginary stats we made up.

At the time you enter a Reaper dungeon, we apply 2 total effects. They drive all of your Reaper Enhancement bonuses based on the imaginary stats we added. On exit, those two effects are removed.

2 effect add/pulls per character instead of many, and no feat re-evaluation, and it became a much smoother experience. Fingers crossed it keeps holding up and everybody has some smooth gameplay!
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 Ragnarok.Jessikah
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-11-19 22:09:12
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Lakshmi.Avereith said: »
"What's good about FFXI."

At least you don't really run out of things to do!

If you think you do, ask me I'll tell you some stupid crap you can still get done for no reason

Hit level cap on all the top tier monsters in Monstrosity!
Seriously, though. Most content in FFXI amounts to at least something. Monstrosity not so much - it's supposedly left in an unfinished state - but nearly everything rewards you with at least something to make your life easier. And even if some stuff like Monstrosity doesn't, at least it's still fun.

FFXI's greatest strength is that whenever you get bored of any one thing, there are dozens of other things you can do: level a craft, quest for fame, hunt for some items, level a job you've never tried before, make some money, help your nation out in Campaign. Even something as simple as organizing your inventory like the OCD little goblins we all are just feels rewarding.
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By Lakshmi.Avereith 2021-11-19 23:01:37
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Lakshmi.Avereith said: »
"What's good about FFXI."

At least you don't really run out of things to do!

If you think you do, ask me I'll tell you some stupid crap you can still get done for no reason

Hit level cap on all the top tier monsters in Monstrosity!
I think you mean all the monsters in general



Never run out of things to do! A game of endless content.

Endless. Meaningless. Content.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2021-11-20 00:36:14
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Ragnarok.Jessikah said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Lakshmi.Avereith said: »
"What's good about FFXI."

At least you don't really run out of things to do!

If you think you do, ask me I'll tell you some stupid crap you can still get done for no reason

Hit level cap on all the top tier monsters in Monstrosity!
Seriously, though. Most content in FFXI amounts to at least something. Monstrosity not so much - it's supposedly left in an unfinished state - but nearly everything rewards you with at least something to make your life easier. And even if some stuff like Monstrosity doesn't, at least it's still fun.

FFXI's greatest strength is that whenever you get bored of any one thing, there are dozens of other things you can do: level a craft, quest for fame, hunt for some items, level a job you've never tried before, make some money, help your nation out in Campaign. Even something as simple as organizing your inventory like the OCD little goblins we all are just feels rewarding.

Yeah, monstrosity is in a weird half-finished state, like they started with a good idea but then stopped before finishing it. All that needs to happen is open up more areas and put some sort of Bonus KI system like what Monster raising has. Get 99 of a monster and get a KI that gives you +X to some stat or other, can only have one active at once.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2021-11-20 00:37:50
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Monstrosity would be great if the vs Player content was better. Nothing is more fun that beating up someone as a Byakko who can ignore the tank.
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By Draylo 2021-11-20 00:46:49
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Would be better if you could use it in low tier content. Might be fun to bring a sandworm into a high tier battle or orb fight.
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By Asura.Saevel 2021-11-20 00:50:42
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Ramuh.Austar said: »
Monstrosity would be great if the vs Player content was better. Nothing is more fun that beating up someone as a Byakko who can ignore the tank.

It wouldn't work out well with how iLevel was introduced. I actually know folks who attempted to make this work, one has the Sandworm leveled up and others made a "group" to fight him, was fun the first time but got old quick. You can't really "ignore" the tank as a monster, "provoke" forces you to target the tank.

Monstrosity is really about revisiting all the old XP camps we all played in and getting to mess around there as a much more powerful monster class and level through them.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2021-11-20 01:23:27
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Asura.Saevel said: »
You can't really "ignore" the tank as a monster, "provoke" forces you to target the tank.
It doesn't last that long so you can ignore them a lot.

Obviously item level increases means it won't ever be fixed, since nobody probably kept 30/60/90 cap gear for it.
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By RadialArcana 2021-11-20 06:22:58
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Asura.Saevel said: »
FFXI doesn't have a dedicated team, it's handled by the FFXIV team as a sort of side-project.

FFXI has a dedicated team of developers working on it as a full time job and they have nothing to do with XIV or any other games development, they are however in the same business division as ff14 so they have the same server staff and same Community Staff/STF/GM/CS/translation staff. (ffxvi is also in that same division under Yoshida, and they managed to get this over other divisions because of how well XI and XIV have been doing)

The actual core developers are still separate (and by this, I mean the people who plan content, make decisions, make cut-scenes, put together new content, understand the basic direction of the game and core principles), however they use a lot of freelance / contract work.

If they need textures for a new set of armors or a zone they pay developers that used to work on XI (that may be assigned to XIV or some other game currently) as freelance work to make them, in their free time. They don't do this as part of their job with XIV or because it's a hobby, it's freelance work that they are paid from the XI budget to make.

Pretty much everything major that is made for XI in terms of actual assets is made with freelance/contract work from the XI budget. Music, Textures, Models, Writing, Zones etc.

Some have this mindset that you need a team of hundreds to make a game, you don't. You just need a strong core team and money.
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