Amano Vs Masa (Final Augment)

Nothing is wrong with his numbers, but he just listing WS damage at 1000TP I think and trying to judge weapon only by that XD

Just an FYI, on the SAM sheet, JSE necks are currently being calculated additive with pdif cap rather than multiplicative. It's fixed on my own sheet, but I've yet to publish the change.

Ah ok, yeah that isn't very accurate. I misunderstood what he was trying to point across then.

SimonSens: No not at all. Just giving raw numbers from SAM spreadsheet. You, are you a troll?

What are those numbers then? Raw numbers of what if not WS damage? Because that's not DPS for sure. SAM DPS is nowhere near 20k+

As said earlier, I only used the spreadsheet and added the numbers it gave me.

You can try it and you should get the exact same numbers that i get . I didnt change anything else.

If the methodology isnt right, please explain clearly and I will do my very best to understand. : )

I have mine here:
https://github.com/CaseyMakes/Simulations

It's a bit dated, the UI sucks, and the options aren't very user friendly.

SimonSens: I ll try to give you a pic, give 1 minute please

Thx a lot Austar, gonna try it!

The sheet provides DPS value and WS value. What numbers you added exactly. There is really nothing to add here. You provide VERY small details about what you are doing actually.

1. What buffs? Capped attack?
2. What WS for each weapon?
3. How much TP for each weapon and WS
4. TP sets? WS sets?
5. DPS values? WS damage values?


Cant even tell because you started whole discussion with SUPER simplified model, then jumped to sheet and providing 0 details of using it.

SimonSens: I can't seem to be able to post a pic, I'm not really used to how this works.

But mainly here it goes:

Open SAM spreadsheet, go to gear and change only the weapon.

For example for Masa 121, it gives me Set DPS 5197 and WS Dmg 17979 for a total of 23176.

Does it makes more sense?

All the other data remains the same so it shouldnt impact

Well so far, spreadsheet seems to confirm that my oversimplified method wasnt that way off.

No that makes completely no sense and that only clarify that you have no idea how this works :) Maybe someone with more time will explain to you how wrong it is :) I suggest reading SAM main thread very carefully and find info there.

I'm gonna also try the simulation tool that Austar provided.
It should be interresting to see if it goes into the same ballpark or not.

SimonSes: Well if you would be so generous as to give an explanation, it would be greatly appreciated. I can even gives you my email if you want to discuss it more privately.

I feel like SAM dps should be more like 9k dps, but I could be wrong, never actually checked, maybe pushing 10k, idk I got no reason to check, just throwing random numbers out there lol.

I seriously think you were trolling me Simon, but it's ok.

I'm only trying to get coherent numbers.

You are stating about Ftp, WS modifer I am missing, but those dont matter at all since we are calculating with the same WS!

I honestly have no time for that. It's nothing against you personalyl really. I probably use way to many free (or even not free :P) time on this forum, trying to discuss way to many things. What youa re askign tho is guide to use sheet really and I dont have time to explain that to you. Try to find a guide for this sheet yourself. I can just really point you few things.

1. DPS value is not what you think it is. It's a damage per second including WS damage. Its not melee damage. in your simplified model it would be not a+b=c what you are doing but b+c=c
2. You have way more things that you need to change to compare weapons, not just weapons in "gear". You need to change WS in "Setup" and chnage TP and WS set to optimize it for WS you use (for SAM its a little simpler, because you will msotly use Fudo for every weapon probably. Not sure, I'm not really into SAM)

Whats the point of this thread? Everyone here is saying Masa is top DPS weapon. Are people with Amano just mad that people call is trash?

Bippin: At first it was to see if Amano fully augmented could be on par with Masa fully augmented, when using Kaiten vs Fudo at 100 TP.

People pointed out rightfully that in the real world, SAM never really WS at exactly 1000 TP. And i think we all agree that Fudo > 1000TP is really better than Kaiten.

Then, we were trying to answer the question if both Amano and Masa fully upgraded use Fudo, by how much is Masa better than amano.

From numbers I have been gathering, it seems to be close to 15%.

That's the questions this post tried to answer.

Still debating if the 15% is accurate or it could be lower/higher.

Bippin: It's sure that in RL situation, Masa fully augmented wins over Amano.

But is Amano fully upgraded = to a Masa 119 III?

By how much is it actually better one vs the other both upgraded.

This topic is *** stupid and about on par with Vize's *** topics.

I mean he's probably just trying to do a cost benefit analysis. Relic only requires Gill to make, whereas an Empy requires a time sink plus gill to make. So I would imagine OP's question is more in line with:

"If I only have time/gill to make an Ammano, at rank 15 how far will it fall behind other options"

To many this would seem like a moot point when Doji is a superior weapon to ammano and can be obtained for free. Especially when you have the capacity to rank 15 a weapon you ought to be able to complete an aeonic run. If the Op is considering buying mateirals for Ammano and AGing it. Their money would likely be better spent on paying for an aeonic run.

This is likely why you've been met with resistance in this post OP.

Likely he has Amano and not masa and is trying to justify using the lesser weapon.

I'm reality, the maths been done in and out, for a long time, and it hasn't changed since R15 and the math was the same with slight different values but otherwise remained the same formulas.

Let the horse rest in peace.

What's the point of comparing one at R15 and one at R0? If you know Masa R15 is better shouldn't you just work on that?




edit: I think this is the point of the thread

Yes and no, just trying to figure out if it's as bad as some people pretend it to be : )

If it is one dps lesser, then it may as well be deleted from the game, so yes, it's worse than they say it is.

Problem solved.

Some are BIS or trash and I met too many people like that. The whole point is if the real difference is that important. Many people are throwing stupid numbers around. I heard them all. I heard from throw any weapon that is not Masa to 50% more damage to 25% then 10% and so on...

Just wanted to see if we could agree on an actual % and possibly hierarchy them with actual numbers.

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Bippin: "But is Amano fully upgraded = to a Masa 119 III?

What's the point of comparing one at R15 and one at R0? If you know Masa R15 is better shouldn't you just work on that? "

Totally right if you want to make a Masa. Just trying to make people see that if one got an Amano at R15, it s probably on par with those players that use Masa R0.

Basically, i understand for a fact that Masa R15 is the best option for sure! But, The other options arent that bad too and the gap doesnt seem to be as wide as some without numbers would like you to believe.


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Anyone with those 2 r15 could be able to provide some testing and numbers? It would be really appreciated!

Thank you everyone for incomes btw.