You'll Shoot Your Eye Out! - New FFXI RNG Guide

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2020-03-17
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You'll Shoot Your Eye Out! - New FFXI RNG Guide
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By Afania 2020-01-08 08:45:35
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
I think the real question is... is Savage Blade actually good enough with all of the TP Bonus/WSD buffs to warrant using it over ranged WS? Does seem like a nice option to have for mobs that are very strong to our magical ranged WS, but on more neutral mobs (or obviously those that are weak to TF/WF) maybe not.

Last time I checked, Without malaise, SB on COR did beat leaden at capped pdif. And COR doesn't get wsd ammo so in theory COR has weaker SB than rng.

Magical ws just seem stronger because 1) people cap pdif less often than they think. 2) people tend to use malaise for magical ws when they can, then stuck with the "leaden/TF OP" mindset after they see a 99999 WS. 3) people may be over Tping which favors leaden/TF more and SB in tp bonus weapon less.
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 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2020-01-08 08:46:18
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Ragnarok.Nightmarelord said: »
I'm lost on why we think rng will ever get close to cor.

rng beating cor, is like koga beating masa.

until se fixes rng all we can do really is wait.

Soon as a rng gets close, a cor just comes back from their semi-afk and wins.

The only thing we really need is validation of the new ammos working or not (assumed they dont)

Did anyone compare it to cor? It's a fun new toy, that does something (however little) to increase rng relevance in the savage meta.
 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2020-01-08 08:48:03
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Afania said: »
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
I think the real question is... is Savage Blade actually good enough with all of the TP Bonus/WSD buffs to warrant using it over ranged WS? Does seem like a nice option to have for mobs that are very strong to our magical ranged WS, but on more neutral mobs (or obviously those that are weak to TF/WF) maybe not.

Last time I checked, Without malaise, SB on COR did beat leaden at capped pdif. And COR doesn't get wsd ammo so in theory COR has weaker SB than rng.

Magical ws just seem stronger because 1) people cap pdif less often than they think. 2) people tend to use malaise for magical ws when they can, then stuck with the "leaden/TF OP" mindset after they see a 99999 WS. 3) people may be over Tping which favors leaden/TF more and SB in tp bonus weapon less.

You forgot the main reason people love magic WS.... almost 0 hate.
 Ragnarok.Nightmarelord
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By Ragnarok.Nightmarelord 2020-01-08 08:57:13
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So basically people are bored. mmk.
 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2020-01-08 09:09:13
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Not necessarily bored per se, but this happens with content that ages. At first there is only one way to beat it (blms bursting, or cors/rngs spamming magic WS). Eventually the mechanics and the competence gets to the point that beating it is trivial, now it's a question of either refining it to perfection, or attempting it with non-optimal setups.

For some, it is just about having 100% of the tools that the jobs has at it's disposal.
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By SimonSes 2020-01-08 09:24:13
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Cerberus.Mrkillface said: »
What would acc look like on the club in that set?

Well apparently RNG cant wear Reiki Yotai, so the set would be 10DW on Cape and Olseni belt and Odr earring instead fo Reiki and Eabani.

That set would have around 1085 accuracy (without food) with Kclub.
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2020-01-08 09:45:12
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I'd probably recommend mache earring +1 over Odr. You lose 1-2 acc, gain 2% DA. Even with Kraken, it should be a net positive.

Maybe for dual wield, patentia sash + carmine cuisses +1 Path D. You get the +11 DW to cap, you get the carmine acc, and you get to keep STP on the cape. You gain 1 DW, 2 STP, but you lose net 15 acc, so that one might be are harder sell, since acc is the issue.
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By SimonSes 2020-01-08 10:16:16
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Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
Even with Kraken, it should be a net positive.

I dont think so. I will calculate it later, but guts tell me it wont be a gain.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2020-01-08 10:21:39
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average hit per round goes down with mache even dw.
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 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2020-01-08 10:42:24
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Ramuh.Austar said: »
average hit per round goes down with mache even dw.

I stand corrected.
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By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2020-01-08 10:43:28
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Afania said: »
Because range mode may seem fast with 1 round to 1000 TP but in reality there's a delay between TP and WS, the lag between each shot also happens more often, which isnt the case with melee.

I only quote for the sake of having a recent comment on this issue- you are far from the only person who has mentioned the issue before. The correct criticism about the delay between TP and WS.

This is a huge issue, and is always a part of the argument between shooting and meleeing for TP.

Why do so few talk about the benefits of shooting over melee in high lag events, or more in particular, in "THE high lag event event, Dynamis-D"?

A RNG can change targets on the fly, never needing to deal with the "engage lag" of first targeting the right mob and then the pause between targeting, selecting, and actually starting to swing melee hits.

In most groups, mobs in wave 1 or 2 outside of NMs will be dead before the more laggy of us even make that first swing, turning NQ mob groups into a constant experience of target, engage, pull out weapons and then staring at a 0% mob. Most high-end groups will even experience NQ Volte mobs in wave 3 this way (again, not the NMs). Its a running joke in pretty much every place I've done Dynamis-Divergence that the "winner" of "full wave" parses just have the best connection and/or the most practiced in target swapping.

If on RNG, you'll never need to engage (to fully TP AND WS not engaged, you WILL need to be using a lua or xml depending on Windower or Ashita that keeps that function enabled). You'll eliminate that "engaging gap" between targeting and swinging. In return, you'll have a gap between TP and WS that's larger than melees. I'm sure in low to zero- lag situations that a melee will pull ahead in this comparison, but that would be comparing apples (no lag) to cyanide pills (divergence) for most of us.

Its not like I'm in the middle of nowhere needing a good VPN tunnel to clean up my pathing- I'm smack in the middle of Northwest Ohio in a 100+ year old building with 3 different types of cabling inside it just to reach my apartment to the Spectrum box outside...let alone what runs throughout this crappy town to the backbone.

Shooting is hell in such high lag situations, I'll never argue against that obvious point. And if you haven't tried, you should at least a couple times just to know what pain it is. I'm sure half the desire to seek a quality melee build on RNG is for moments like this where you just know the results you put out aren't your best, and are the results of nothing more than a bad gaming experience, not bad execution. But I do wonder if for those with major lag you're merely swapping "an ugly chick for a fat chick. You didn't want either, but you're gonna be stuck with one."
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By Afania 2020-01-08 13:56:31
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I wasn't talking about engage speed specifically, I was talking about the difficulty of perfect ra timing in general.

The engage speed advantage is exclusive to 3rd pt tool users anyways.

That being said, since dyna D is mentioned I'd say that I do feel that as a vanilla player the engage speed disadvantage is less bothersome than mobs with TONS of adds like schah.

I can never engage schah adds faster than a windower user and it shows on parses. But in dyna D there's a delay between each pulls so I generally target a mob and engage before tank flash a mob in the group, that lowers the engage speed difference between vanilla player and windower users.

As soon as flash fires off I do QDx2 in stp set (or ranged attack if it's down) to get instant TP. Once mob goes within melee range my character starts auto attack.

If I keep auto engage on in dyna once my current mob died it will target the next target right away. auto engage is so much faster than manual engage in dyna D.

By using both melee and ranged this way, it's possible to lower the engage lag as much as possible and get the best of both worlds.

Mobs that moves super slow and just stuck in an agro corner? Shoot.

Have mob sitting right next to you? Melee.

Got bound and nobody in pt erase you? Yell for erase on discord and shoot while waiting!

Fighting a single target NM? Melee!

Mob goes to perfect dodge? Shoot definitely.

By changing between melee and ranged mode in dyna D, there's noticeable increase in dps. Last time when I tried to do that to every single pull v.s another equally geared guy who didn't do the same the gap was as big as 10% alliance dps despite our ws avg was mostly the same. Really there's no real reason to stuck in 1 playstyle entire time.
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By Odin.Llewelyn 2020-01-08 13:59:33
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Afania said: »
I can never engage schah adds faster than a windower user
Is there an addon I'm missing that would offer this advantage?
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By Afania 2020-01-08 14:02:55
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Odin.Llewelyn said: »
Afania said: »
I can never engage schah adds faster than a windower user
Is there an addon I'm missing that would offer this advantage?


We were talking about ranged mode.

Afaik you can just ws disengaged with windower. Since ranged mode doesn't need to engage for TP it's possible to tp/ws entire time without ever need to engage.
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 Bahamut.Celebrindal
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By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2020-01-08 14:21:07
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Afania said: »
Odin.Llewelyn said: »
Afania said: »
I can never engage schah adds faster than a windower user
Is there an addon I'm missing that would offer this advantage?


We were talking about ranged mode.

Afaik you can just ws disengaged with windower. Since ranged mode doesn't need to engage for TP it's possible to tp/ws entire time without ever need to engage.

An unintended "benefit" to Gearswap is the ability to WS while not engaged. From what I've seen/read, it was not intentionally designed with this benefit, it was something discovered by users.

Since it was "discovered", Rangers and Corsairs in shooting mode can sit in full DT gear at distance, never engaging, and shoot/WS a target, then swap to another target. Or one-shot statues as they approach without having to wait to engage. If you are out of range (21'+ ranged WSs, or typical melee range for ranged weaponskills), you'll use waste your TP with no WS, unless you specifically write instructions to only allow WS's in proper ranges. This also is beneficial for melee DDs to one-shot one target without engaging, then "get to work" on their real target.

If you either "play vanilla" or have a gearswap lua written to prevent such function, a great solution that Afania mentions is to engage on one mob, then using the menu options blow a WS on an "off target". Example: target a BRD or PLD mob in Dynamis Divergence- you know, one of the "safe" mobs to grab early in the pull. Build your TP on that mob, then using the WS menu, select your Leaden/Trueflight, and tab that over to the statue you're desiring to one-shot. As long as its within range and inside your cone of vision, its a faster way to WS an off-target mob compared to disengaging then re-engaging, even faster than switching targets completely.

Regarding "perfect RA timing"....as a lua user and yes, a Windower user who takes advantage of some addons such as Distance Plus, Rolltracker, Skillchains, etc that certainly affect my game experience both positively and negatively, timing is never something that I feel like I'm truly getting ideal outside of small man situations. Certainly the biggest reason I don't like to come RNG to Dynamis-D. Its a theoretical perfection I don't believe is possible in those environments with my setup, connection, and tools. Definitely a reason that successful melee sets are always interesting to me. If you are able to reliably shoot at a good TP gain rate in that environment, go for it. I just know I won't see it in there and compensate with job choice or style.
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By SimonSes 2020-01-08 15:07:58
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What Afania said is cool, but doesnt really work with Savage Blade setup on wave 3. You cant really shot anything with much success with non ilvl gun/bow. RNG could probably still shot for TP on wave 1 and 2 even with TP bonus bow, but I would be a little worried to fire off that WSD arrow XD
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By Ragnarok.Nightmarelord 2020-01-08 15:30:55
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Yeah, rng doesnt have to engage anything ever with specific things,

you use to be able to completely blink the animation, meaning you blink via a gear swap and you are no longer subject to the hellish delay from things like jishnu. Idk if it still works or is even necessary.

Havent used a bow since mythic.
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By Asura.Outlawbruce 2020-01-08 16:18:48
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Skrymir Cord +1 going to beat our eschan stone's now?

When distance and weather obviously arent contributing factors.

Also why is the guide still showing top tier midshot without malignance?

Ignoring all accessories. Just talking head, hands, legs, feet, body
Midshot top tier set shown: 218 racc 30 STP, 180agi (has regal ring added to it)

Midshot relic head 4/5 malignance: 237 racc, 42 STP, 194AGI

Is it because of the crit hit rate and ranged attack? Last I checked rangers arent out there to get the high white damage. Gandiva and Arm sure if that's your thing. I'd probably keep the guides set for those weapons. Weaponskill frequency is where rangers really shine. I could careless about a extra 3k damage in white damage between weaponskills when the WS's are 50-99k.
Just wondering if theres something I'm not seeing. Because I see malignance in other sets. Just not in our midshot
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By Afania 2020-01-08 20:41:50
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SimonSes said: »
What Afania said is cool, but doesnt really work with Savage Blade setup on wave 3. You cant really shot anything with much success with non ilvl gun/bow. RNG could probably still shot for TP on wave 1 and 2 even with TP bonus bow, but I would be a little worried to fire off that WSD arrow XD

Should be using TF/WF on wave 3 anyways! And you can melee for Tp with both ;)
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By Asura.Outlawbruce 2020-01-13 13:16:44
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Odr earring going to be bis for gandiva now?
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By Carbuncle.Crollion 2020-01-13 13:34:44
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figure ill ask here. anyone willing to share a good updated lua? gear is something im working on also working on weapons but finding a good up to date lua seems to be a issue to find like other jobs lol.

thanks in advance to anyone who can help me out!
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By fillerbunny9 2020-01-13 16:29:49
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Asura.Outlawbruce said: »
Odr earring going to be bis for gandiva now?
even though it is DEX, I can see it being useful for AM3 on Gandiva, Gastraphetes, and Armageddon. as far as Jishnu's itself, it should beat out Sherida from current sets, unless you are REALLY needing that 5 sTP to maintain an X-shot.
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By Asura.Outlawbruce 2020-01-13 17:39:47
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fillerbunny9 said: »
Asura.Outlawbruce said: »
Odr earring going to be bis for gandiva now?
even though it is DEX, I can see it being useful for AM3 on Gandiva, Gastraphetes, and Armageddon. as far as Jishnu's itself, it should beat out Sherida from current sets, unless you are REALLY needing that 5 sTP to maintain an X-shot.

Yeah, was thinking the same thing, but best in slot jish already is racc starved pretty bad. Should definitely beat out Sherida. Guess itll be my next piece.
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By fillerbunny9 2020-01-13 21:25:56
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Carbuncle.Crollion said: »
figure ill ask here. anyone willing to share a good updated lua? gear is something im working on also working on weapons but finding a good up to date lua seems to be a issue to find like other jobs lol.

thanks in advance to anyone who can help me out!

https://github.com/ArislanShiva/luas/blob/master/Arislan-RNG.lua writes some good gearswaps. the sets on the front page are up to date aside from the new Domain Invasion items, and not many of those are worth mentioning to begin with.

edit: actually, and the Malignance set as well which you will want.
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By Carbuncle.Crollion 2020-01-13 22:44:33
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fillerbunny9 said: »
Carbuncle.Crollion said: »
figure ill ask here. anyone willing to share a good updated lua? gear is something im working on also working on weapons but finding a good up to date lua seems to be a issue to find like other jobs lol.

thanks in advance to anyone who can help me out!

https://github.com/ArislanShiva/luas/blob/master/Arislan-RNG.lua writes some good gearswaps. the sets on the front page are up to date aside from the new Domain Invasion items, and not many of those are worth mentioning to begin with.

edit: actually, and the Malignance set as well which you will want.
thank you sir! much appreciated!
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By Valefor.Gorns 2020-01-14 03:01:46
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Question / Warning:

In Arislan RNG lua, arent there some typo in the writting of the WS precast sets , example:
Code
    sets.precast.WS["Last Stand"] = set_combine(sets.precast.WS, {
        neck="Scout's Gorget +1",
        })

    sets.precast.WS['Last Stand'].Acc = set_combine(sets.precast.WS['Last Stand'], {
        ammo=gear.ACCbullet,
        feet="Orion Socks +3",
        ear2="Telos Earring",
        ring2="Hajduk Ring +1",
        waist="K. Kachina Belt +1",
        })


1st set, Last Stand is written between " " ; while in the accuracyt sets it is ' '

Does it matter?
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By Nyarlko 2020-01-14 10:37:13
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@Gorns: Nope, does not matter in this case. Double quotes tends to be safer in my experience just so you don't get into the habit of using singles which can cause issues with spells/abilities that include apostrophes in them (ex: ["Rudra's Storm"]. Single quotes around it will bug out, doubles will work fine.)
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By Valefor.Gorns 2020-01-14 11:00:17
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Thanx for the reply ;)
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By Asura.Arico 2020-01-14 15:16:05
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What's the best stone for WSD/Agi/MAB? Taupe?
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By Nariont 2020-01-14 15:18:11
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Ritual sacrifices and a invent full of stones, as for which, probably taupe yeah, good luck lining them all up in decent amounts
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