Dynamis-Divergence Findings

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Dynamis-Divergence Findings
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 Asura.Ladyofhonor
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2018-07-07 05:54:09
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So since the announcement of Wave 3 I started looking into mega boss clears and not a ton of information out there. So far wiped to Orc (39~%) and Quadav (23~%) but think the other bosses will mesh better with our config.

My question is if anyone has tested if killing other NM's have any impact on the mega boss? Considering the way Wave 3 functions with fetters it would make sense if killing the other NM's had some impact on the mega boss, but not sure if anyone has messed with it.
 Asura.Toralin
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By Asura.Toralin 2018-07-07 06:47:01
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Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
So since the announcement of Wave 3 I started looking into mega boss clears and not a ton of information out there. So far wiped to Orc (39~%) and Quadav (23~%) but think the other bosses will mesh better with our config.

My question is if anyone has tested if killing other NM's have any impact on the mega boss? Considering the way Wave 3 functions with fetters it would make sense if killing the other NM's had some impact on the mega boss, but not sure if anyone has messed with it.

We did Jueno, cleared no NMs just cleared stat path and pulled mini closer to mega to minimize clear time. Boss seemed the same, the megabosses are not easy IMO
 Asura.Yoshimuru
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By Asura.Yoshimuru 2018-07-07 06:52:49
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Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
So since the announcement of Wave 3 I started looking into mega boss clears and not a ton of information out there. So far wiped to Orc (39~%) and Quadav (23~%) but think the other bosses will mesh better with our config.

My question is if anyone has tested if killing other NM's have any impact on the mega boss? Considering the way Wave 3 functions with fetters it would make sense if killing the other NM's had some impact on the mega boss, but not sure if anyone has messed with it.


killed windy mega boss few times some time with 2 nm sometimes with 5 and seems no effect at his HP or abilities
 
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By 2018-07-07 10:23:45
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By pricey1251 2018-07-15 05:13:39
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Hello, i was wondering if anyone could share any information about Obstatrix Jeuno Wave 2 boss, I plan on fighting it soon for the first attempt I have seen a video of JP group doing it magic burst style but haven't seen or read about it been done melee or ranged style unless i missed it been mentioned here some where. If anyone could help me out on any special buffs or ideas that would help me plan this i would really appreciate it.
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By Nyarlko 2018-07-15 09:24:03
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Valefor.Angierus said: »
BLU cleave the entire sandy zone, full clearing wave 1 and 2, no changes to mega boss behavior.

What's your group comp for this setup? Basic strat?

I tried this w/ my LS and our BLUs kept getting creamed. I think it was mainly an issue w/ needing practice on timing and CC rotations, (and melee party waking things up that they shouldn't have been ^^;;) but also wondering if my plan was entirely offbase or if the gear reqs for success using this strat are just a lot higher than I was thinking.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-07-15 09:30:25
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Blus shouldnt be getting hit at all. Your tank should be keeping mob attention.
 Asura.Toralin
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By Asura.Toralin 2018-07-15 09:30:34
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Nyarlko said: »
Valefor.Angierus said: »
BLU cleave the entire sandy zone, full clearing wave 1 and 2, no changes to mega boss behavior.

What's your group comp for this setup? Basic strat?

I tried this w/ my LS and our BLUs kept getting creamed. I think it was mainly an issue w/ needing practice on timing and CC rotations, (and melee party waking things up that they shouldn't have been ^^;;) but also wondering if my plan was entirely offbase or if the gear reqs for success using this strat are just a lot higher than I was thinking.

We would have tank /BLU run in stand on stat, aoe enmity spell, blu dreamflower, thf layer sleepga(TH), geo/blm runs indi-malaise, layers sleepga, once geo/thf spells are on just 2 spells should drop pretty much everything, so 3 blus should be able to totally demolish. BA -> Tenebral can 1 shot with a nicely geared blu
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By Nyarlko 2018-07-15 11:27:37
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Asura.Toralin said: »
Nyarlko said: »
Valefor.Angierus said: »
BLU cleave the entire sandy zone, full clearing wave 1 and 2, no changes to mega boss behavior.

What's your group comp for this setup? Basic strat?

I tried this w/ my LS and our BLUs kept getting creamed. I think it was mainly an issue w/ needing practice on timing and CC rotations, (and melee party waking things up that they shouldn't have been ^^;;) but also wondering if my plan was entirely offbase or if the gear reqs for success using this strat are just a lot higher than I was thinking.

We would have tank /BLU run in stand on stat, aoe enmity spell, blu dreamflower, thf layer sleepga(TH), geo/blm runs indi-malaise, layers sleepga, once geo/thf spells are on just 2 spells should drop pretty much everything, so 3 blus should be able to totally demolish. BA -> Tenebral can 1 shot with a nicely geared blu

Thank you. This does seem to be somewhat close to what I tried to make my ls do, but I think our BLUs were popping off nukes too early or something. Our tank was also PLD/WAR for that run, (since he is on the newer side and doesn't have BLU setup yet.) Pretty darn sure that no one was using BA either. Would the BA+ reforges be recommended in this case?

It wasn't actually a failure for us at least. XD We got the midboss down and timed out while fighting the NMs near the Wave2 boss, which was actually further than we normally manage. I guess everything just piled up resulting in BLUs having agro everytime CC wore off, and having 1-3 constantly weakened BLUs kinda made it difficult to get further.

"Nicely geared BLU" = ??? Standards here can vary. ^^;; Would that include Jhakri+1? Jhakri+2? Amalric+1 onry? Would consider tabling the strat for now if it's beyond the expected capabilities of FaceDesk's members currently. I'm just looking for reliable strats for clears and/or farming for a group made mostly of newer players and returnees who are far from BIS, that I try to make as flexible as possible so everyone can come on the jobs they actually want to come on, and thought this would be reachable.
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-07-15 12:05:50
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Nyarlko said: »
Our tank was also PLD/WAR for that run

This was complete fail, he might as well of not even been there or just /cheer from the side lines. WAR is a ***sub for a tank to begin with and completely fails the moment you have more then one target. PLD's need to be /BLU or come GEO instead, RUN's got do /BLU or /DRK depending.

BLUs are going to have aggro often, it's the natural state of mass AoEing. They need to communicate and coordinate use's of Spectral, Entomb with Tenebral and Scouring. Between they need to be casting Dream Flower and keep Occultation up.
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By Nyarlko 2018-07-15 13:22:15
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Nyarlko said: »
Our tank was also PLD/WAR for that run

This was complete fail, he might as well of not even been there or just /cheer from the side lines. WAR is a ***sub for a tank to begin with and completely fails the moment you have more then one target. PLD's need to be /BLU or come GEO instead, RUN's got do /BLU or /DRK depending.

BLUs are going to have aggro often, it's the natural state of mass AoEing. They need to communicate and coordinate use's of Spectral, Entomb with Tenebral and Scouring. Between they need to be casting Dream Flower and keep Occultation up.

Outside of AOE rotation fails from the BLUs, PLD had no problem tanking the stuff he was supposed to be tanking. Also, can't be a complete fail if we still cleared more than usual. XD
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By Afania 2018-07-15 13:32:03
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Nyarlko said: »
Outside of AOE rotation fails from the BLUs, PLD had no problem tanking the stuff he was supposed to be tanking.

Asura.Eiryl said: »
Blus shouldnt be getting hit at all. Your tank should be keeping mob attention.

Several people already explained the core issue was tank and it's lack of ability to do aoe tanking because of sj choice. And yet you are still super focus on blus....

If pld sub WAR how are you going to keep all mobs off blu?

It's not a big deal if pt has issue causing fails. If is a problem if pt lead refuse to recognize the core issue and proceed to fix it
 
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By 2018-07-15 14:32:24
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-07-15 16:59:27
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Nyarlko said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Nyarlko said: »
Our tank was also PLD/WAR for that run

This was complete fail, he might as well of not even been there or just /cheer from the side lines. WAR is a ***sub for a tank to begin with and completely fails the moment you have more then one target. PLD's need to be /BLU or come GEO instead, RUN's got do /BLU or /DRK depending.

BLUs are going to have aggro often, it's the natural state of mass AoEing. They need to communicate and coordinate use's of Spectral, Entomb with Tenebral and Scouring. Between they need to be casting Dream Flower and keep Occultation up.

Outside of AOE rotation fails from the BLUs, PLD had no problem tanking the stuff he was supposed to be tanking. Also, can't be a complete fail if we still cleared more than usual. XD

A PLD/WAR can tank exactly what thing at a time, which in Dynamis is horrible when compared to PLD/BLU(or /DRK) or a RUN/BLU (or /DRK).

Nyarlko said: »
Also, can't be a complete fail if we still cleared more than usual. XD

It most certainly can if your usual is a handful of mobs and the mid boss. Since their new it's not their fault, instead its the fault of the more experienced Dynamis team members for not recognizing that as a major issue, and it is.

"Hey guys I really got this one guy, don't gotta worry about him at all, sorry can't help you with the dozen other mobs eating your face". Then introduce a RUN who can do AoE -> Foil or Poisonga -> Foil (advanced mode) and effectively hold all the mobs.
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By Bahamut.Agerine 2018-07-15 17:57:01
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Curious what /drk offers to a tank. Never really thought along those lines before.
 
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By Afania 2018-07-15 18:08:44
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Bahamut.Agerine said: »
Curious what /drk offers to a tank. Never really thought along those lines before.

Poisonga to to tag mobs, then foil to get hate. Stun is additional enmity spell, and last resort provides extra ja haste and attack for dding.

Its just preference though, not mandatory or anything.
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By Asura.Geriond 2018-07-15 18:10:51
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Bahamut.Agerine said: »
Curious what /drk offers to a tank. Never really thought along those lines before.
It gives Stun, which has equal enmity properties to Flash and superior mitigation properties (when it lands, at least), Last Resort (more important to a RUN than a PLD), Smite (same), and Resist Paralyze.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-07-16 11:53:08
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/DRK gives more enmity tools along with an AoE tag ability which is critical for many tanking situations today.

LR / SE are both high VE spike tools that self target and thus produce enmity on everything you have hate on. Weapon bash is the same as Shield bash but requires toggling to a 2H weapon momentarily.

Stun is a ST high hate (CE/VE) tool similar to flash. Like Flash haste can be used to reduce it's recast to low numbers and thus enable you to spam enmity.

Poisonga is an AoE tool that will tag everything and has a cast range of 20 feet with an AoE range of around 12. Basically you cast poisonga (resits from your sub job level skill) and then follow it with Foil / or some other self-target move. Because it's self target the enmity is gained on all the mobs that here hit with Posionga.

You also have the absorb spells which generate a fair amount of VE though sadly only 1 CE. If everything else is down you can rotate in a few of those to prevent hate decay.

There is a reason NIN tanked as /DRK and not /WAR.

/DRK
Stun = 180CE 1280VE
Last Resort = 1CE 1300VE
Soul Eater = 1CE 1300VE
Weapon Bash = 1CE 900VE
Absorb-X = 1CE 640VE
Poisonga = 1CE 320VE

/WAR
Provoke = 1CE 1800VE
Warcry = 1CE 300VE (x number of targets hit who are on the hate list)

For comparisons these are other options
Foil = 320CE 880VE
Flash = 180CE 1280VE
Sheep Song = 320CE 320VE
Jettatura = 180CE 1020VE
Geist Wall = 320CE 320VE
Blank Gaze = 320CE 320VE
Fantod (BLU main only) = 320CE 320VE

VE hate decays at the rate of 60 per second and when you take damage, reduction is lowered by an unknown amount with +enmity. CE only decays when you take damage and amount is reduced by having higher HP and wearing +enmity. Tanking for any length of time revolves around building CE on all targets, VE is easy to generate but is reduced very easily also. Actions that can be done on the player are extremely valuable because they build hate on all targets the player has hate on.
[+]
 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-07-16 13:21:11
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I would add that /blu can also have Soporific and Stinking Gas.

both for 320 CE / 320 VE just like Sheep Song and Blank Gaze

though w/ the recast on Sheep Song, Geist Wall, and Blank Gaze, adding 2 more is not really needed.
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2018-07-16 18:20:43
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Asura.Saevel said: »
VE hate decays at the rate of 60 per second and when you take damage, reduction is lowered by an unknown amount with +enmity. CE only decays when you take damage and amount is reduced by having higher HP and wearing +enmity. Tanking for any length of time revolves around building CE on all targets, VE is easy to generate but is reduced very easily also. Actions that can be done on the player are extremely valuable because they build hate on all targets the player has hate on.
VE isn't affected by taking dmg. The only things that can reduce VE would be the decay over time, and direct enmity reducing abilities. High jump, super jump, monster hate resets, etc.

I can't speak for the effects of enmity+ gear on VE decay, if any, as it hasn't been tested. But I doubt it has any effect on VE decay at all.

That would actually be a pretty easy test, now that I think about it. Just rig things so the second character has a tiny bit more CE then you, then Voke, and time how long it takes to turn back to the other player. If it takes longer than it should have, after accounting for the enmity+ on voke, then there may be an effect there. I should do that sometime.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-07-16 18:51:21
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Ragnarok.Martel said: »
I can't speak for the effects of enmity+ gear on VE decay, if any, as it hasn't been tested. But I doubt it has any effect on VE decay at all.

I believe SE added -/+ enmity effects to both CE and VE hate loss back when they added Crusade and messed with the hate cap again. They specifically stated they were going to do something along those lines.

I thought you lost VE on damage based on the amount of CE you lost similar to how you gain VE from damage based on how much CE you gain multiplied by a number based on level difference.

Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
I would add that /blu can also have Soporific and Stinking Gas.

both for 320 CE / 320 VE just like Sheep Song and Blank Gaze

though w/ the recast on Sheep Song, Geist Wall, and Blank Gaze, adding 2 more is not really needed.


Yeah /BLU has a ton of enmity, just listed those cause they were common and anymore is kinda overkill.
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2018-07-16 19:53:10
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
I can't speak for the effects of enmity+ gear on VE decay, if any, as it hasn't been tested. But I doubt it has any effect on VE decay at all.

I believe SE added -/+ enmity effects to both CE and VE hate loss back when they added Crusade and messed with the hate cap again. They specifically stated they were going to do something along those lines.

I thought you lost VE on damage based on the amount of CE you lost similar to how you gain VE from damage based on how much CE you gain multiplied by a number based on level difference.
If you have a link to that statement of intent, I'd be interested in seeing it.

As for what they actually posted in the update notes, it was as vague as ever.
SE said:
The "Enmity+X" and "Enmity-X" statistics found on equipment have undergone the following adjustments.
Those receiving damage from a foe while wearing "Enmity-X" equipment will experience greater enmity reductions, while those wearing "Enmity+X" equipment will experience lesser enmity reductions.
Thing is, taking dmg doesn't reduce VE.
Asura.Saevel said: »
I thought you lost VE on damage based on the amount of CE you lost similar to how you gain VE from damage based on how much CE you gain multiplied by a number based on level difference.
Nope. While CE and VE gain have some relation in enmity generation mechanics(cure enmity and dmg dealt enmity) They have none in terms of decay. CE loss has no effect on VE.

By the way, it's not based on level difference, it's based on the level of the target. Attacker/healer level isn't part of the equation. See here for dmg dealt enmity and Here for cure enmity. Sadly the mob level tables for dmg enmity only go up to lvl 95 here. Higher level values have been tested, but I don't know if they were documented anywhere.

But anyway, VE's mechanics are clearly stated on BG wiki on the enmity page. And on kaeko's blog where most of the original enmity testing was posted.

I haven't actually dug far enough back to look at the tests where VE mechanics were established, but the post on dmg taken CE loss page states the following.
Kaeko said:
* Volatile Enmity (VE) is not affected by [ Damage Taken ].
Seems pretty clear cut. Since VE is not lost upon taking dmg, then enmity+ gear can't be reducing a nonexistent loss.

More from Kaeko's blog.
Kaeko said:
* Nothing known in game affects the -60 VE/sec decay rate
Now, this is old, and SE could have changed things. But considering that the changes to enmity gear were specifically for enmity loss from taking damage I see no reason to assume enmity+ affects VE decay rate. Not that I'd mind giving it a test sometime.
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-07-16 22:32:47
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Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Nope. While CE and VE gain have some relation in enmity generation mechanics(cure enmity and dmg dealt enmity) They have none in terms of decay. CE loss has no effect on VE.

Yeah for some reason I thought the enmity reduction from damage taken was similar to how enmity from damage dealt has a base CE value and a VE multiplier tacked on. If their completely unrelated then VE decay wouldn't be effected by SE's vague adjustments.

Quote:
The "Enmity+X" and "Enmity-X" statistics found on equipment have undergone the following adjustments.
Those receiving damage from a foe while wearing "Enmity-X" equipment will experience greater enmity reductions, while those wearing "Enmity+X" equipment will experience lesser enmity reductions.

Yeah that's what I was talking about, having +Enmity on reduces the hate lose by some unknown value while having -Enmity on increase's it. Think it was done so DD's and Mages can lose hate faster, put some -enmity in a DD's DT set to let the tank get it back easier, conversely tank's +enmity in DT set reduces their enmity bleed.
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By Asura.Toralin 2018-07-17 10:24:39
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You find an offering to the Quadav on Ka'Rho Fearsinger. not sure if these drops were found yet
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By Shiva.Cahota 2018-07-25 16:20:45
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sure its been asked before but cant find it, does killing the red stats actually weaken the wave 2 boss in any way? thanks for response.
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By Fenrir.Jumeya 2018-07-25 16:50:00
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Shiva.Cahota said: »
sure its been asked before but cant find it, does killing the red stats actually weaken the wave 2 boss in any way? thanks for response.

No
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By Fendarin007 2018-07-27 05:30:32
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Can anyone share there melee strategy for wave 2 mega boss’s please or would my group be best taking a tank/dd/Mb party for wave2/3 and Mb the wave 2 and dd wave 3 bosses. sandy Bastok and jeuno wave 2 boss seems a pain to melee any info would be great ty
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By Staleyx 2018-07-27 05:34:31
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General strategy is a normal dd zerg with bolster/soulvoice from the start and then have timed random deals and wildcards. Helps to have a healer out of range to heal the whm in range. Carol/scherzo is very nice on them.
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By Asura.Kiyarasubrosa 2018-07-31 22:25:22
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Tried to tackle Dynamis-Windurst [D] Mega Boss Yagudo and no dice. Had 10 people. It seems that 12 could handle this if well geared. A bard, geo and cor seem necessary. Any particular things to keep in mind? Do terrain height differences affect TP attacks from boss? Any particular buffs need up at full time? Double Wind Carol, Bararea, Shell V and Sentinel's Scherzo? Was able to melee it down to 50% before it just goes bonkers with AOE spam. A red mage also helps a lot with silence.
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