The 6th Ministry's Secret: A Summoner's Guide (v2)

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The 6th Ministry's Secret: A Summoner's Guide (v2)
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By Wotasu 2019-11-01 10:14:22
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I remember Pergatory talking about it few pages back, found this~
Asura.Pergatory said: »
With AM3 up it's basically a wash, but Varar+1 should be slightly ahead (by a small fraction of a percent). If your accuracy isn't capped, Cath's 2 extra acc will make a much bigger difference than the BPD vs Pet:DA.

However, in all other scenarios I ran, Cath beat Varar+1. That includes a Gridarvor build with Shulmanu instead of JSE neck, Relic+3 body, Kyrene's Earring, and Helios head/boots, which is all the Pet:DA stuff I could think of to reasonably cram in there with it.
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-11-01 11:15:08
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So basically with AM3 down or with weapons other than Nirvana, Cath Palug Ring should be slightly ahead of Varar+1 for stuff like Volt Strike and similar FTP carrying BPs.

I doubt the difference is gonna be too big, but ok.
I still am not using Relic Body +3 for Volt Strike btw.
It seems too big of a loss, it's not just the BPD+16 that concerns me, but the Acc+60, it truly is quite a big loss.
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By Wotasu 2019-11-01 11:16:08
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It is a big loss over AF+3, avoid it. Only place it "ok" is low buff situations. Crit wont go over max BP dmg anyway with the right buffs.
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By Asura.Pergatory 2019-11-04 10:46:05
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Asura.Sechs said: »
So basically with AM3 down or with weapons other than Nirvana, Cath Palug Ring should be slightly ahead of Varar+1 for stuff like Volt Strike and similar FTP carrying BPs.
Yup exactly

Asura.Sechs said: »
I still am not using Relic Body +3 for Volt Strike btw.
It seems too big of a loss, it's not just the BPD+16 that concerns me, but the Acc+60, it truly is quite a big loss.
It was a hard sell for me too, and you definitely need Nirvana and an abundance of accuracy to make it work. When Papesse endorsed it I took another solid attempt at using it, and have never gone back. It really is better, IF you can get enough accuracy going. For me, that point didn't come until I had both the R25 collar as well as R15 Nirvana. That said, you could probably also go heavier on the accuracy augments than I did and get there without R15 Nirvana.

It's probably one of the last things you should look at for perfecting your SMN when you've already squeezed every drop out of other places.
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By Wotasu 2019-11-04 15:51:01
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Asura.Pergatory said: »

Asura.Sechs said: »
I still am not using Relic Body +3 for Volt Strike btw.
It seems too big of a loss, it's not just the BPD+16 that concerns me, but the Acc+60, it truly is quite a big loss.
It was a hard sell for me too, and you definitely need Nirvana and an abundance of accuracy to make it work. When Papesse endorsed it I took another solid attempt at using it, and have never gone back. It really is better, IF you can get enough accuracy going. For me, that point didn't come until I had both the R25 collar as well as R15 Nirvana. That said, you could probably also go heavier on the accuracy augments than I did and get there without R15 Nirvana.

It's probably one of the last things you should look at for perfecting your SMN when you've already squeezed every drop out of other places.

What would be the best setup for Relic Body +3?
Something like this?
Code
main="Nirvana", (R15)
sub="Elan Strap +1",
ammo="Sancus Sachet +1",
head={ name="Apogee Crown +1", augments={'MP+80','Pet: Attack+35','Blood Pact Dmg.+8',}},
body="Glyphic Doublet +3",
hands={ name="Merlinic Dastanas", augments={'Pet: Accuracy+30 Pet: Rng.Acc.+30','Blood Pact Dmg.+10'}},
legs={ name="Apogee Slacks +1", augments={'Pet: STR+20','Blood Pact Dmg.+14','Pet: "Dbl. Atk."+4',}},
feet={ name="Helios Boots", augments={'Pet: Accuracy+30 Pet: Rng. Acc.+30','Pet: "Dbl. Atk."+8','Blood Pact Dmg.+7',}},
neck="Smn. Collar +2",
waist="Incarnation Sash",
left_ear="Gelos Earring",
right_ear="Lugalbanda Earring",
left_ring="Varar Ring +1",
right_ring="Varar Ring +1",
back={ name="Campestres's Cape", augments={'Pet: Acc.+20 Pet: R.Acc.+20 Pet: Atk.+20 Pet: R.Atk.+20','Pet: Attack+10 Pet: Acc.+10',
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By Asura.Pergatory 2019-11-04 17:16:25
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The set you posted should have plenty of accuracy.

Here's the set that I use when AM3 is down and consider to be pretty close to ideal:
Code
main="Nirvana",
sub="Elan Strap +1",
ammo="Sancus Sachet +1",
head={ name="Helios Band", augments={'Pet: Attack+30 Pet: Rng.Atk.+30','Pet: "Dbl. Atk."+8','Blood Pact Dmg.+7',}},
neck="Summoner's Collar +2",
ear1="Lugalbanda Earring",
ear2="Kyrene's Earring",
body="Glyphic Doublet +3",
hands={ name="Merlinic Dastanas", augments={'Pet: Attack+24 Pet: Rng.Atk.+24','Blood Pact Dmg.+9','Pet: STR+10','Pet: Mag. Acc.+7',}},
ring1="Cath Palug Ring",
ring2="Varar Ring +1",
back={ name="Campestres's Cape", augments={'Pet: Acc.+20 Pet: R.Acc.+20 Pet: Atk.+20 Pet: R.Atk.+20','Eva.+20 /Mag. Eva.+20','Pet: Attack+10 Pet: Rng.Atk.+10','Pet: "Regen"+10',}},
waist="Incarnation Sash",
legs={ name="Apogee Slacks +1", augments={'Pet: STR+20','Blood Pact Dmg.+14','Pet: "Dbl. Atk."+4',}},
feet={ name="Helios Boots", augments={'Pet: Accuracy+28 Pet: Rng. Acc.+28','Pet: "Dbl. Atk."+8','Blood Pact Dmg.+7',}}


Notice the Helios Band loses 35 accuracy compared to Apogee Crown +1, and my Merlinic Dastanas have attack instead of accuracy. So this set is actually lower accuracy than the one you posted, even with the Kyrene Earring and Cath Ring giving me basically a free 17 accuracy over Gelos/Varar.

I find my set is accurate enough most of the time. There are exceptions though. Reisenjima T3s and T4s, for example, if I'm not using Shiromochi and there's no Torpor up, I've found my accuracy can sometimes be lacking. So there's arguments for a little more accuracy than what I have in my set. The big place I found this to be impacting me was on Yakshi during Aeonic runs, because we keep our GEO back on that fight so there's no Torpor, and I'm usually on Akamochi for the other NMs. So I've noticed my accuracy isn't always ideal on Yakshi for that reason.

I think anything that has at least as much accuracy as my set will do fine with Relic+3 body. Any less is pushing your luck. Also, when talking about Escha content, don't forget about vorseals... Mine are capped and it lets me get away with less accuracy than others might need.
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By Bahamut.Belkin 2019-11-07 10:59:20
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Hi, fresh SMN here. I've been browsing the guides, but didn't feel like digging through endless amounts of pages with information that could be outdated. I have two basic questions.

First is about summoning magic skill. Where does this go in a gear set? I know that it increases the duration on BP: Wards, so obviously put it in BP: Ward set. But then also it plays a factor in BP: Rages as well. I think I'm understanding correctly that I want to put summoning magic skill in my pre-cast on BP: Rage. If that is indeed the scenario, do I want to load up every single slot with the highest summoning magic skill gear I can find for pre-cast? Or is there a cap of some sort where it doesn't matter. I mostly ask because I'm not sure if I wanna drop fat cash on full Baayami if it turns out I can perform just as well with some cheap throw-together stuff.

Second question is I'm getting confused about how much BP delay gear I actually need to hit the lowest timer. I'm getting hung up on "Reduce BP Delay I" & "Reduce BP Delay II" combined with the fact that Avatar's Favor also plays a factor here. And where does Reduce BP Delay gear go? Is that pre-cast or mid-cast? What is the ideal combination of Reduce BP Delay gear?

Thanks for the replies, sorry for dumb.
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By Wotasu 2019-11-07 11:26:54
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Bahamut.Belkin said: »
Hi, fresh SMN here. I've been browsing the guides, but didn't feel like digging through endless amounts of pages with information that could be outdated. I have two basic questions.

First is about summoning magic skill. Where does this go in a gear set? I know that it increases the duration on BP: Wards, so obviously put it in BP: Ward set. But then also it plays a factor in BP: Rages as well. I think I'm understanding correctly that I want to put summoning magic skill in my pre-cast on BP: Rage. If that is indeed the scenario, do I want to load up every single slot with the highest summoning magic skill gear I can find for pre-cast? Or is there a cap of some sort where it doesn't matter. I mostly ask because I'm not sure if I wanna drop fat cash on full Baayami if it turns out I can perform just as well with some cheap throw-together stuff.

Second question is I'm getting confused about how much BP delay gear I actually need to hit the lowest timer. I'm getting hung up on "Reduce BP Delay I" & "Reduce BP Delay II" combined with the fact that Avatar's Favor also plays a factor here. And where does Reduce BP Delay gear go? Is that pre-cast or mid-cast? What is the ideal combination of Reduce BP Delay gear?

Thanks for the replies, sorry for dumb.

So your 1st Question, if you can get 670 smn skill(with Beck.Horn+1) in precast you get lowest possible recast of 21seconds instead of 22seconds.(So no huge win.)

Budget 671 skill
ItemSet 366354

2. As Master Smn you get -10s delay from gifts which means you only need -20s Delay from equip to cap the -30 that's max from equip & gifts(I-15/II-15 which is max for their tiers) Using Af Body+3 I -15 and NQ Ammo II -6, you land on -21 which takes you to 30s recast, Favors is the only thing that goes below 30s to 22s or 21s with 670 skill.

This is enough to get 22sec and could probably remove some smn skill in there
ItemSet 366308
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By Pantafernando 2019-11-07 12:04:58
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About relic body, sorry if you answered this already:

1. How much is the difference in terms of dmg, from the common setup, suposing acc is not a problem

2. I supose relic body would be the prefered if the char dont have nirvana and uses gridarvor auhmented?

Thanks in advance
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By Asura.Pergatory 2019-11-07 12:49:45
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Pantafernando said: »
1. How much is the difference in terms of dmg, from the common setup, suposing acc is not a problem
About 1-2% over AF+3 body. Use my calculator if you want to know the exact number for your setup.

Pantafernando said: »
I supose relic body would be the prefered if the char dont have nirvana and uses gridarvor auhmented?
It's actually better for Nirvana users than for Grid users, because it sacrifices BPD for Pet:DA. Grid users have more Pet:DA and less BPD to begin with. For Gridarvor users, it's more like a 0.5% increase.
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By Wotasu 2019-11-07 13:09:06
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Is this none AM3 build tho or with AM3?
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By Asura.Pergatory 2019-11-07 13:25:28
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Non-AM3. Relic body shouldn't be used with Nirvana AM3 up. AF+3 body beats it handily in that situation regardless of your other gear.
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By Wotasu 2019-11-07 13:43:42
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Aye, thoughts so.
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By Asura.Frod 2019-11-18 02:15:38
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Bpd and da have this annoying synergy to them where too much of one makes the other more valuable. The main pieces that play into this are nirvana, af3 vs relic3 bodies, and the gelos vs the da earring.
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By Jetackuu 2019-11-18 02:38:24
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I'm not sure what is worse, staring at gearsets for a week to try to hobble things together from crap I don't have or staring at multiple luas to see which one I want to try to use.
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By Asura.Frod 2019-11-18 04:08:51
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Perg's calculator is good at deciding situationally which piece of gear is .25% better
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By Draylo 2020-01-13 17:55:25
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Does anyone have a GS that will spam BPs on a specific target during conduit? or Addon, trying to figure a way to be easier than what I'm using for a mule.
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By Asura.Arico 2020-01-13 18:08:19
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Draylo said: »
Does anyone have a GS that will spam BPs on a specific target during conduit? or Addon, trying to figure a way to be easier than what I'm using for a mule.

Not exactly what you're asking for, but...

I use serindril's sendalltarget and use it in a precast function to have my smns mirror my bloodpacts(a hassle because you should comment it out when not using your mules) and then just use a windower macro to spam VS. Works pretty well at controlling 3-4 smns at once. I'll post it when I get home.
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By Icydeath 2020-01-13 20:07:54
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Here is Pergatory's lua w/ autobp functionality.
https://pastebin.com/PuhJZ6vg

Manually will most likely still yield better results... but you can give this a try and see if it works for you.

Only thing different from his original lua is the following:
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By kishr 2020-02-12 09:07:37
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Siren Updated Code for Lua
Code
bp_physical=S{  'Welt','Roundhouse','Hysteric Assault','Punch','Rock Throw','Barracuda Dive','Claw','Axe Kick','Shock Strike','Camisado','Regal Scratch','Poison Nails',
 
                'Moonlit Charge','Crescent Fang','Rock Buster','Tail Whip','Double Punch','Megalith Throw','Double Slap','Eclipse Bite',
                'Mountain Buster','Spinning Dive','Predator Claws','Rush','Chaotic Strike','Crag Throw','Volt Strike'}
 
bp_hybrid=S{    'Burning Strike','Flaming Crush'}
 
bp_magical=S{   'Sonic Buffet','Tornado II','Clarsach Call','Inferno','Earthen Fury','Tidal Wave','Aerial Blast','Diamond Dust','Judgment Bolt','Searing Light','Howling Moon',
                'Ruinous Omen','Fire II','Stone II','Water II','Aero II','Blizzard II','Thunder II','Thunderspark','Somnolence',
                'Meteorite','Fire IV','Stone IV','Water IV','Aero IV','Blizzard IV','Thunder IV','Nether Blast','Meteor Strike',
                'Geocrush','Grand Fall','Wind Blade','Heavenly Strike','Thunderstorm','Level ? Holy','Holy Mist','Lunar Bay',
                'Night Terror','Conflagration Strike', 'Zantetsuken'}
                 
bp_debuff=S{    'Biter Elegy','Lunatic Voice','Lunar Cry','Mewing Lullaby','Nightmare','Lunar Roar','Slowga','Ultimate Terror','Sleepga','Eerie Eye','Tidal Roar',
                'Diamond Storm','Shock Squall','Pavor Nocturnus'}
                 
bp_buff=S{      "Wind's Blessing",'Chinook','Katabatic Blades','Shining Ruby','Frost Armor','Rolling Thunder','Crimson Howl','Lightning Armor','Ecliptic Growl','Hastega','Noctoshield',
                'Ecliptic Howl','Dream Shroud','Earthen Armor','Fleet Wind','Inferno Howl','Soothing Ruby','Heavenward Howl',
                'Soothing Current','Hastega II','Crystal Blessing'}
 
bp_other=S{     'Healing Ruby','Raise II','Aerial Armor','Reraise II','Whispering Wind','Glittering Ruby','Earthen Ward','Spring Water','Healing Ruby II'} 
 
AvatarList=S{   'Siren','Shiva','Ramuh','Garuda','Leviathan','Diabolos','Titan','Fenrir','Ifrit','Carbuncle','Fire Spirit','Air Spirit','Ice Spirit',
                'Thunder Spirit','Light Spirit','Dark Spirit','Earth Spirit','Water Spirit','Cait Sith','Alexander','Odin','Atomos'}
                 
spirit_element={Fire='Fire Spirit',Earth='Earth Spirit',Water='Water Spirit',Wind='Air Spirit',Ice='Ice Spirit',Lightning='Thunder Spirit',
                Light='Light Spirit',Dark='Dark Spirit'}spirit_conflict={Fire='Ice',Earth='Lightning',Water='Fire',Wind='Earth',Ice='Wind',
                Lightning='Water',Light='Dark',Dark='Light'


Heres her new Abils and SMN added to the Lua, logout and update Windower.

Edit: fixed the code because of wind's, recopy and paste.
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By Asura.Botosi 2020-02-12 15:31:26
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How necessary is Nirvana for SMN? It seems like SE just doesn't want to nerf SMN so I'm thinking of gearing it up on a mule.

Would a non-Nirvana SMN be useful at all?
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-02-12 15:35:09
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Nothing you can't do in your own group with was/grid/grio

You will not get into a shout without it, that's the only difference.
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By Pantafernando 2020-02-12 15:47:00
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Probably SMN need Nirvana as much as a BLU need Tizona, as much as a PLD need Burtganga, as much as a SAM need Masamune.

The only difference is that above jobs have a sub par REMA to pretend they are better than average (Sequence, Almace, Doji, etc) while SMN is mythic or non-REMA
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By Pantafernando 2020-02-12 15:51:14
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But if you ask me, when I decided to make Nirvana a couple of years ago, I will say its absolutely worth the investment.

Probably I should have made like 100x all I spent. SMN owns a lot of Ambuscade mobs. SMN own Escha/Reisen. SMN own Omen. Just that should be more than 50% of current endgame.
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By SimonSes 2020-02-12 15:51:56
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Pantafernando said: »
Probably SMN need Nirvana as much as a BLU need Tizona, as much as a PLD need Burtganga, as much as a SAM need Masamune.

Ymmm no with Tizona. For BLU this sword is a game changer for longer events with infinity MP.

Masamune is closer to truth, but generally melee weapons will have much more use of aftermath, than Nirvana, unless all you do is prepared SMN zergs.

Cant say anything about Burtgang XD
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-02-12 15:53:18
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Pantafernando said: »
But if you ask me, when I decided to make Nirvana a couple of years ago, I will say its absolutely worth the investment.

Probably I should have made like 100x all I spent. SMN owns a lot of Ambuscade mobs. SMN own Escha/Reisen. SMN own Omen. Just that should be more than 50% of current endgame.

Oh absolutely. You'll make (and save) billions. It literally prints money (if you are capable of hitting control 1, some people aren't....)

Pay 200m for nirvana and have access to/and do literally everything in the game, or pay 200m and get ONE aeonic. Nirvana is the one-stop entrance ticket to absolutely every other item in the game.(directly, or earning money to buy it, with minimal effort*)
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By Phoenix.Miraun 2020-02-12 15:56:23
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Strangely, Hysteric Assault isn't showing up in my chat log. No filters, and don't see anything in battle mod that would be filtering it? Anyone have any ideas?
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By Asura.Botosi 2020-02-12 15:57:10
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Pantafernando said: »
But if you ask me, when I decided to make Nirvana a couple of years ago, I will say its absolutely worth the investment.

Probably I should have made like 100x all I spent. SMN owns a lot of Ambuscade mobs. SMN own Escha/Reisen. SMN own Omen. Just that should be more than 50% of current endgame.

Oh absolutely. You'll make (and save) billions. It literally prints money (if you are capable of hitting control 1, some people aren't....)

Pay 200m for nirvana and have access to/and do literally everything in the game, or pay 200m and get ONE aeonic. Nirvana is the one-stop entrance ticket to absolutely every other item in the game.(directly, or earning money to buy it, with minimal effort*)


Ughhh it's not even the gil. It's the fact that I'd be making it on a mule and my mules dont have TOAU missions/Captain rank done..... Maybe I'll just make it on my main :/
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-02-12 15:59:53
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Yup it's a big obstacle lol. Just a pain in the ***. It's only a day to clear assaults and toau missions. Then you get the joy of actually building the damn thing with more assaults and einherjar. oh and a nyzul 100 climb that your mule probably doesn't have.

Only you can decide if that's worth anything.
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