The Last Dance II: The Show Must Go On

Language: JP EN DE FR
New Items
2022-11-10
329 users online
Forum » FFXI » Jobs » Dancer » The Last Dance II: The Show Must Go On
The Last Dance II: The Show Must Go On
First Page 2 3 ... 67 68 69 ... 80 81 82
 Asura.Elizabet
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Elizabet
Posts: 494
By Asura.Elizabet 2019-01-12 08:18:16
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Dabackpack said: »
since you only need 26% MDT to cap with Shell V anyway.

Thats D-ing + moonlight + cape if you pick 100mdt. or 2 moonlight and torque. Not a too huge sacrifice imho
 Phoenix.Dabackpack
MSPaint Winner
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1985
By Phoenix.Dabackpack 2019-01-13 08:08:00
Link | Quote | Reply
 
A question about Terp/Twashtar combo----

I know theoretically it does better than Terp/Capped-Sari, but is the margin really that wide? (Assuming Pyrrhic spam, fully augmented Terp)

From Sari you get +24 STR, +24 DEX which is comparable to the +50 DEX from Twasthar, ATT+20 ACC+20 which is absent from offhand Twashtar, TA+3%, and +8 Subtle Blow which is really nice. The damage rating is what really suffers, but for an offhand weapon it doesn't really seem that significant.
Offline
Posts: 454
By Zeota 2019-01-13 23:28:43
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Digging these changes so far, even now that I've finished my twashtar. Haven't really had the chance to try it on anything meaningful though, as I've been stuck on COR a lot lately. :(
Offline
Posts: 7493
By SimonSes 2019-01-14 01:15:46
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Sheet shows perfect taming is just slightly behind twashtar for offhand. Dps dropped from 6577 to 6490 when i changed from twashtar to taming.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 83
By Andromida 2019-01-14 09:02:14
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Has anyone looked at using a TP Bonus +1000 dagger in off hand recently? (Fussetto/Centovente) One of my LS's BLUs was talking about using their sword and so I made the dagger.

I have been playing with it on fodder mobs Twashtar (rank 15) main hand doing Rudra's seems to be doing an extra 1-3k farming Omen. I do feel the lack of acc and iLv on THF but DNC seems to be decent. Possibly be decent on waves 1 and 2 of Dynamis D as well.
Offline
Posts: 1510
By ScaevolaBahamut 2019-01-14 10:02:47
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Andromida said: »
Has anyone looked at using a TP Bonus +1000 dagger in off hand recently? (Fussetto/Centovente) One of my LS's BLUs was talking about using their sword and so I made the dagger.

I have been playing with it on fodder mobs Twashtar (rank 15) main hand doing Rudra's seems to be doing an extra 1-3k farming Omen. I do feel the lack of acc and iLv on THF but DNC seems to be decent. Possibly be decent on waves 1 and 2 of Dynamis D as well.

Check a few pages back. Works for DNC because the base acc of anyone in a position to start thinking about doing it is already lapping half the other melee jobs.
Offline
Posts: 7493
By SimonSes 2019-01-14 13:22:17
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Tp bonus works for both blu and dnc because they can reach high acc. The idea to use tp bonus on blu spread over after my post about it in blu thread but in my head it poped few months ago exactly because i saw tp bonus offhanf theorycrafting in dnc thread.

The big difference between tp bonus on dnc and blu is that for blu it boosts WS that doesnt chain with itself. So it boosts BLU dps by a lot in group when you spam WSs (not counting skillchains tp bonua setup on blu is ~30% stronger than next best build) but for solo its a lower boosts in dps because cdc>cdc makes light sc which let you almost catch up (if unresisted) to tp bonus setup. For DNC its the other way around. Tp bonus is only slightly better than Terpsi and Pyrrhic spam in group, but for solo its significantly better because of rudra>rudra making darkness and DNC having highest natural skillchain bonus in game. On top of that we have climatic flourish which works great for tp bonus setup. Lastly its an ultimate combo for 1hr zerg when you do 6+ climatic rudra and you dont even need to tp, so accuracy on offhand is pretty much not important.
 Leviathan.Katriina
Offline
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: kate99
Posts: 860
By Leviathan.Katriina 2019-01-15 03:20:00
Link | Quote | Reply
 
SimonSes said: »
Tp bonus works for both blu and dnc because they can reach high acc. The idea to use tp bonus on blu spread over after my post about it in blu thread but in my head it poped few months ago exactly because i saw tp bonus offhanf theorycrafting in dnc thread.

If I recall correctly, it started here [September 16 - Page 57]:

[+]
 Phoenix.Dabackpack
MSPaint Winner
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1985
By Phoenix.Dabackpack 2019-01-15 07:49:28
Link | Quote | Reply
 
It's honestly pretty disappointing to see Centovente come up on top...
 Asura.Kusaregedo
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: kafuin
Posts: 306
By Asura.Kusaregedo 2019-01-15 08:19:51
Link | Quote | Reply
 
i dunno, i'm just starting dnc and the prospect of taking advantage of tp bonus to its fullest is kinda exciting. i'm going to get aeonic first with cent offhand then start working on twashtar.
 Asura.Sechs
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Akumasama
Posts: 8846
By Asura.Sechs 2019-01-15 08:27:28
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Madranta's numbers got proved to be partially wrong though.
We discussed it again a few pages ago because me and other people noticed that the difference between some combinations (notably Twash main and centovente offhand) were a bit too far away from each other.

I did some quick tests and while the tier list was more or less the same Madranta posted, the differences were still pretty big, but not THAT big.
Someone else did some more detailed tests and pretty much confirmed it.

For instance with Madranta's numbers you would have like over 1200 DPS difference between Aeneas/Twash and Twash/Centovente.
The real difference is still very bit but not that huge.



Forum search on FFXIAH is crap atm or I would search the posts myself ><
 Asura.Sechs
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Akumasama
Posts: 8846
By Asura.Sechs 2019-01-15 08:29:51
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Kusaregedo said: »
i dunno, i'm just starting dnc and the prospect of taking advantage of tp bonus to its fullest is kinda exciting. i'm going to get aeonic first with cent offhand then start working on twashtar.
Aeneas/Centovente, if I recall, is only marginally better than Aeneas/Twash.

Realistically (in real numbers/simulation and not on spreadsheet) the difference is even smaller because of the TP overflow which is hard to perfectly simulate on a SS whereas is quite unavoidable in a real scenario.

Basically Aeenas+Centovente+Moonshade is way too much TP bonus. You get past the "sweet spot" of TP usage and you run into a realistic risk of wasting TP (which you can only partially avoid by using something other than Moonshade, but it's still not optimal)


If you REALLY want to fully exploit the sheer power of Centovente on DNC I think you kinda want to get augmented Twashtar mainhand and spam those sexy sexy Rudras.
Offline
Posts: 7493
By SimonSes 2019-01-15 08:46:55
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Dabackpack said: »
It's honestly pretty disappointing to see Centovente come up on top...

Why? Its only an offhand, you still need R15 Twashtar to make it viable and its still not the situation of BLU when you can throw bunch of accuracy swaps and still TP will pull ahead significantly. On DNC TP bonus is just 500 DPS above Terpsi, so for any content that will require accuracy swaps to maintain accuracy cap with Centovente, it will start going below Terpsi option.
 Asura.Sechs
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Akumasama
Posts: 8846
By Asura.Sechs 2019-01-15 08:56:17
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I think he meant more that it's disappointing to be using in 2019 an equipment (especially one for a slot that received the ilevel treatment) that is over, what, 6 years old?

From that specific point of view I do kinda share the sentiment, but that doesn't change the fact that Centovente can indeed be pretty awesome.
Offline
Posts: 7493
By SimonSes 2019-01-15 09:47:53
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I know what he meant and it's even more questionable to me. Making older content viable is cool imo and especially when it only works with synergy with newest stuff. It's also situational, limited and not much above 2nd option, so you can say it's balanced. I see all reasons to be happy not disappointed.
[+]
 Leviathan.Sidra
Offline
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: Sidra
Posts: 334
By Leviathan.Sidra 2019-01-15 10:15:47
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Its just a sign that at this point the combination of dps and support are overgeared for the content we are playing.
[+]
 Bismarck.Nickeny
Offline
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Nickeny
Posts: 1593
By Bismarck.Nickeny 2019-01-15 11:49:48
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Rocking twash r15 and tp bonus brings me back to the old days when when they first came out... doing abyssa altepa doll parties
Offline
Posts: 7493
By SimonSes 2019-01-15 11:52:30
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Leviathan.Sidra said: »
Its just a sign that at this point the combination of dps and support are overgeared for the content we are playing.

What do you mean? TP bonus is not really viable for something liek wave 3 unless you throw in every accuracy buff and evasion debuff you have.
[+]
 Bismarck.Nickeny
Offline
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Nickeny
Posts: 1593
By Bismarck.Nickeny 2019-01-15 12:18:01
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Which is like only 2 days a week for a hr and and 40mins about...

For majority of lets say 90% of the other content it is very viable but who cares that its not ilvl.. its fun and cool old items are still useful in a mmo

Heck I joined a pug vd ambu on my brd and used twash/tp bonus and did fine while clearing it in 5-6mins
[+]
Offline
Posts: 7493
By SimonSes 2019-01-15 12:24:46
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Bismarck.Nickeny said: »
Which is like only 2 days a week for a hr and and 40mins about...

For majority of lets say 90% of the other content it is very viable but who cares that its not ilvl.. its fun and cool old items are still useful in a mmo

Heck I joined a pug vd ambu on my brd and used twash/tp bonus and did fine while clearing it in 5-6mins

Dont get me wrong, I love TP bonus option, I was just trying to understand what he meant by overgearing for current content and by current content I tho he meant something like wave 3. I mean it's obvious that if you take same buffs and gear used for wave 3 and throw it and T1 Zitah, then its overgearing (buffs+ equip) for content, but I dont see that for actual current end game, unless you have a mix of low accuracy jobs and high accuracy jobs and you balance buffs around the first group, then some ppl will overcap accuracy by a lot, but it's pretty normal.
 Phoenix.Dabackpack
MSPaint Winner
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1985
By Phoenix.Dabackpack 2019-01-15 13:34:29
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Just from a game design perspective, it effectively devalues weapons that are harder to get.

Leveling the playing field is one thing, but this kind of skews the reward signal of working on REMAs.

Specifically, Terp. 0
Offline
Posts: 7493
By SimonSes 2019-01-15 13:54:42
Link | Quote | Reply
 
But how? Tp bonus is nothing without fully augmented rema in main hand. If anything it makes Twashtar somehow viable and worth augmenting. Terpsi is still the best for hardest content and also its not only a pure dps weapon, its also an utility weapon.

Is Bravura or Apocalypse not worth getting?

I have no idea why so many DNCs in this trhead are obsessed with the need of Terpsi being top dps weapon, other than they probably have it and want to feel special among non Terpsi dencers?
[+]
 Asura.Sechs
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Akumasama
Posts: 8846
By Asura.Sechs 2019-01-15 13:59:16
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Dabackpack said: »
Just from a game design perspective, it effectively devalues weapons that are harder to get.
While getting a Centovente from zero isn't "hard", it sure is quite a lot of work, trust me. Check the necessary trials, you won't be done in a couple of days :-P
[+]
Offline
Posts: 7585
By Afania 2019-01-15 14:08:39
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Dabackpack said: »
Just from a game design perspective, it effectively devalues weapons that are harder to get.

Leveling the playing field is one thing, but this kind of skews the reward signal of working on REMAs.

Specifically, Terp. 0


Well FFXI is all about every gear has a use. Personally I really dislike old gears get replaced by newer ones and I prefer every gear in game remain relevant for as long as possible, if not forever.

I mean, suppa is still relevant and it's zilart mission reward from more than 10 years ago.
 Bismarck.Nickeny
Offline
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Nickeny
Posts: 1593
By Bismarck.Nickeny 2019-01-15 14:31:11
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Dabackpack said: »
Just from a game design perspective, it effectively devalues weapons that are harder to get

I get what your saying... but this isn't wow and many people love that certain ffxi items retain value... when I saw tp bonus dagger make a come back I was super surprised... but you need to do a lot of work to make it viable so isn't some cheap tactic while there are many alternatives that are just as good or better depending on what your doing..
[+]
Offline
Posts: 7585
By Afania 2019-01-15 14:59:08
Link | Quote | Reply
 
It only really "devalue" taming tbh. It's not like people offhand terp nor aeonic. And empy is best as mainhand so....
 Phoenix.Dabackpack
MSPaint Winner
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1985
By Phoenix.Dabackpack 2019-01-15 15:50:11
Link | Quote | Reply
 
SimonSes said: »
But how? Tp bonus is nothing without fully augmented rema in main hand. If anything it makes Twashtar somehow viable and worth augmenting. Terpsi is still the best for hardest content and also its not only a pure dps weapon, its also an utility weapon.

Is Bravura or Apocalypse not worth getting?

I have no idea why so many DNCs in this trhead are obsessed with the need of Terpsi being top dps weapon, other than they probably have it and want to feel special among non Terpsi dencers?

That fact that it's only situational and not holistically better is the saving grace for me. If it was like BLU I'd be a lot madder

And yeah, I spent 200mil+ on Terp so seeing the BiS setup not include it is pretty annoying. It's not about epeen in this case, it's about effort to reward ratio. It's similar to how I felt when Trishula came out and buttfucked Ryunohige, etc. (Granted this situation isn't nearly as dire)

I have a Twashtar and will soon have Aeneas so I understand the argument that different weapons have different utility.

EDIT: This isn't worthy of discussion since me being upset was a consequence of a misunderstanding of the findings of the spreadsheet

moving on
Offline
Posts: 7585
By Afania 2019-01-15 16:20:38
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Dabackpack said: »
about effort to reward ratio.

Here is my opinion on reward effort ratio of Rema:

The best build in ffxi changes all the time and people with all the options available would still have higher performance. It's like switches, you can turn it on when you need them.

For example, I have an Armageddon on cor despite many rich cor player with rostam/dp doesn't bother with it. I spent 180m to 99 back in 2012, another 50 to 60m to AG it, and currently working on r15 it which would cost another 100m total.

I actually rarely use it in game because situation often doesn't favor it. However when situation does favor it, such as ambu last month, I like to have the option available. I know the weapon will keep receiving an update moving forward since it's Rema, so all the 330m spent on it probably wont be wasted because I will never know when will Armageddon be bis or game changing again. So it's nice to keep upgrading it every update.

In the case of blu, almace probably gets devalued but it is still bis for white dmg or sc. Ryunohige is in much worse situation than terp and almace both since its objectively harder to think of a good use for it atm. But you never know because things changes.

Terp did get devalued recently, but it's because of JA change, not because of tp bonus. TP bonus is always there and always bis offhand since ftp update for ws. It's just that community was late utilizing it.
 Asura.Veikur
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
By Asura.Veikur 2019-01-15 16:53:53
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Just gonna pop in and point out Ryunohige's in a pretty good spot right now.
 Carbuncle.Kukiki
Offline
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 12
By Carbuncle.Kukiki 2019-01-16 00:57:15
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I personally prefer Terp/Twash combo. I don't know how those weapons were parsed but I just tested with my GEO mule on Apex Bats some Pyrrhic spam and I was at around 7k dps without SAMs and Fighters roll, also Geo doing Frailty and Haste, entrust Fury and constant attack down. I had Qultada for chaos roll and Joachim for minuet. I can onlu imagine those numbers would be over 8k if I had the right buffs.

You also have to take into consideration that the last Pyrrhic that kills the mob may only be a 1 or 2 hit WS, dropping the parse.

I also seem to do a lot more damage solo by making longer skillchains so i rather than spamming rudra normally prefer something like exen > pk > evis > rudra, and for building tp faster and white damage I like the Terp/Twash set better.

EDIT: just to clarify, geo is not Idris
First Page 2 3 ... 67 68 69 ... 80 81 82
Log in to post.