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Valefor.Prothescar said: » This wouldn't be the first time an MMO outclasses legendary weapons. Aren't some of them in WoW useless, like Thunderfury? I have literally no idea, I've just seen it mentioned that with cap raises and everything in WoW the weapons were never upgradable or adjusted despite requiring a ton of work to make. No, you can have a coke. +10-15 damage and 50 attack NOW. /verucasalt
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Does nobody ever read update notes or dev threads?
SE are boosting 99 and afterglow relics/mythics/empys so they dont fall behind all the new stuff coming out. *tosses down the garbage chute*
With these new high damage weapons it makes me wonder why was it necessary to keep RUN off cala?
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Odin.Creaucent said: » Does nobody ever read update notes or dev threads? SE are boosting 99 and afterglow relics/mythics/empys so they dont fall behind all the new stuff coming out. I'm really happy for you and I'mma let you finish but YouTube Video Placeholder
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Odin.Creaucent said: » Does nobody ever read update notes or dev threads? SE are boosting 99 and afterglow relics/mythics/empys so they dont fall behind all the new stuff coming out. did you read this thread? it's been stated a couple times now. it's not preperation H though, so it's not helping. That's not quite what they said.
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i love the idea of of building weapons. instead of tossing old one for new ones i hop they make further upgrades to R/E/M weapons to keep them all top notch.
i wouldn't mind another line of legendary weapons but id do mind any ah/single drop weapon to top out a longtime built weapon. nevertheless the future changes. you can either whine or adapt
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Given Matsui's envisioning of more structured, tiered content, if these new weapons represent the first new "content level", I don't see how any of our current gear is going to stay relevant.
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: » Given Matsui's envisioning of more structured, tiered content, if these new weapons represent the first new "content level", I don't see how any of our current gear is going to stay relevant.
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You guys are surprised? Look, the omen was there all along!
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This expansion is horrible. New stuff for me to get? *** that, and I can't instantly destroy all content in the game solo with the two new jobs. I quit.
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Valefor.Angierus said: » I'd be perfectly fine if they stopped basing the game around weapons that you could obtain in old content and start looking to the future, it's an MMO, the ultimate badass gear doesn't stay that way for long, and weapons shouldn't either. But that's just my feelings about it all, I can't think of a single MMORPG that has the first group of ultimate godtier weapons remain so through the entire life of the game itself. The problem people have with it is this: unlike most MMOs, gear in XI did stay relevant for a long time; you could put a lot of effort into getting armadaberk/relics/huginn feet/whatever with some sense of knowing it wasn't going to be junk in a week. I don't have any serious issue with SE changing that, but it is a change for XI, and what other games do isn't really relevant in that regard. [Edit: really, look at the cavalcade of examples SE has given that they don't want to phase out gear/content: Artifact+1, Relic+2, Magian upgrades for R/M/E, Tatter Synergy, Neo-Limbus, Neo-Salvage. I'm fine with them changing it (NEW STUFF!) but people having a /wtf reaction isn't crazy - it's a not completely unreasonable reaction to SE abandoning a tactic they've held firm on for a decade.]
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Valefor.Angierus said: » I'd be perfectly fine if they stopped basing the game around weapons that you could obtain in old content and start looking to the future, it's an MMO, the ultimate badass gear doesn't stay that way for long, and weapons shouldn't either. But that's just my feelings about it all, I can't think of a single MMORPG that has the first group of ultimate godtier weapons remain so through the entire life of the game itself. "those 99 weapons that have not yet recieved thier afterglow"
Are they really that out of touch?
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Fenrir.Sylow said: » This expansion is horrible. New stuff for me to get? *** that, and I can't instantly destroy all content in the game solo with the two new jobs. I quit. Somebody made the point on the day of the expansion that if FFXI went to a tiered gear-based structure where all relevant advancement came from the most recent content rather than a broad bunch of sources for roughly equivalent, situational rewards with RMEs driving a money-based economy, it would become every other MMO out there. That would be very bad for a game that still won't let me tab between targets without pressing like 3 confirmation buttons. Put another way: Quote: [Edit: really, look at the cavalcade of examples SE has given that they don't want to phase out gear/content: Artifact+1, Relic+2, Magian upgrades for R/M/E, Tatter Synergy, Neo-Limbus, Neo-Salvage. I'm fine with them changing it (NEW STUFF!) but people having a /wtf reaction isn't crazy - it's a not completely unreasonable reaction to SE abandoning a tactic they've held firm on for a decade.] It would be more accurate to say this tactic, more than any other specific thing, has kept people playing this MMO specifically when there are at least a half dozen others out there that do everything else better.
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There has to exist a happy middle between a stagnating game with minimal character advancement and the generic gear grind MMO. The question is whether or not Matsui can find it. I really don't expect such a radical departure from the current game model though.
oh also
Valefor.Prothescar said: » This wouldn't be the first time an MMO outclasses legendary weapons. Aren't some of them in WoW useless, like Thunderfury? I have literally no idea, I've just seen it mentioned that with cap raises and everything in WoW the weapons were never upgradable or adjusted despite requiring a ton of work to make. And you had better believe numerous bricks were ***when it was announced that yeah, Thunderfury was going to be town gear as of January 2007, but 1) people got over it, because WoW, for better or worse, has always been about the most current tier of content and has only gotten moreso (Thunderfury had already been semi-eclipsed by the time Burning Crusade even came out), and 2) FFXI has carved out a niche for itself in the saturated, ever-evolving Western MMO market by making a point of NOT doing this Pleebo said: There has to exist a happy middle between a stagnating game with minimal character advancement and the generic gear grind MMO. The question is whether or not Matsui can find it. I really don't expect such a radical departure from the current game model though. That middle ground was RMEs. The importance of these weapons was not how powerful they are, but rather how they all (in practice) cost a ton of money to make, which ensures that lots of different content remain "relevant" insofar as they provide ways to make that cash. I'm psyched if mnk got a new awesome weapon from something that is fun to do.
I'm pissed if spharai got absolutely crushed by something that is going to be a boring chore to get. Until I find out which I can't really comment. Edit: and I'd personally guess that it is a typo/mistake or gets nerfed if not. Valefor.Prothescar said: » This wouldn't be the first time an MMO outclasses legendary weapons. Aren't some of them in WoW useless, like Thunderfury? I have literally no idea, I've just seen it mentioned that with cap raises and everything in WoW the weapons were never upgradable or adjusted despite requiring a ton of work to make. WoW greatly outclasses every piece of equipment at every expansion though. They do it every single time. If FFXI were to do the same to R/E/M (meaning leaving them as they are with no adjustments), it would be a first. I mean it's happened on a weapon-by-weapon basis (Ryu vastly outclassing Gungnir, for example), but never a whole host of weapons. That and the fact that, while rare, none of the WoW legendaries were ever as difficult to obtain (compared to other alternatives) as 99 R/E/M are compared to other alternatives in FFXI. Not even close, IMO. I'm expecting FFXI's power creep to move much more slowly than a conventional MMO. This is the first new set of weapons that comes close to licking r/m's heels since Empys, which joined them at the top, in a couple of years.
There aren't many signs of weapons and stuff being replaced constantly within short periods of time, and we still don't know exactly how hard these weapons will be to obtain. Will the Naakuals give points that you spend on their gear? Will you be able to choose a piece of Naaktual gear for completing a Wildskeeper Reive? Will Naaktual gear be a straight drop into the treasure pool? Will Naaktual drops drop to only the person with the killing blow with a VW drop rate? Will Wildskeeper Reives have personal reward chests on completion? We just don't know. I doubt they'll be handed out like candy. I vastly prefer incremental power creep over perpetual stagnation at level cap like at 75.
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I do like the current RME economy but the game can't persist on ancient currency, HMPs, and Alex forever. Not to mention that the content associated with getting those items is inconsequential. You can clear Dynamis solo, trio (or less) new and old Salvage, and kill Qilin with an alliance of windowlickers.
It's nice to see some modernization of this 10yo game, but I can't say I'm worried about it turning into the hamster wheel WoW type grind.
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Valefor.Prothescar said: » I'm expecting FFXI's power creep to move much more slowly than a conventional MMO. This is the first new set of weapons that comes close to licking r/m's heels since Empys, which joined them at the top, in a couple of years. There aren't many signs of weapons and stuff being replaced constantly within short periods of time, and we still don't know exactly how hard these weapons will be to obtain. Will the Naakuals give points that you spend on their gear? Will you be able to choose a piece of Naaktual gear for completing a Wildskeeper Reive? Will Naaktual gear be a straight drop into the treasure pool? Will Naaktual drops drop to only the person with the killing blow with a VW drop rate? Will Wildskeeper Reives have personal reward chests on completion? We just don't know. I doubt they'll be handed out like candy. I vastly prefer incremental power creep over perpetual stagnation at level cap like at 75.  Because I find it hard to believe these Naakuals will just be up and roaming Reives. Cerberus.Pleebo said: » I do like the current RME economy but the game can't persist on ancient currency, HMPs, and Alex forever. Not to mention that the content associated with getting those items is inconsequential. You can clear Dynamis solo, trio (or less) new and old Salvage, and kill Qilin with an alliance of windowlickers. It's nice to see some modernization of this 10yo game, but I can't say I'm worried about it turning into the hamster wheel WoW type grind. Sticking with pejoratives, WoW is quite the opposite from a hamster wheel grind. FFXI is the hamster wheel; that it's fun just proves Camus was right. WoW, on the other hand, is a slot machine you can play once a week that moves up to a bigger and fancier slot machine every couple of months. I've played WoW since launch and raided every expansion except Cataclysm (Abyssea won), and I can tell you straight up that getting the strongest weapon available in the game as a drop is boring and anticlimactic as ***and any satisfaction you derive from FFXI you owe at least in part to it never doing that to you. New weapons too easy? Spit in the face to everyone who spent time making 99 spharai/vereth/whichever else are outclassed or will be.
New weapons something stupid like 1% drop from naakual to a random person? It'll be the gimps who farm bayld 24/7(picture the campaign crowd from 75) who have the majority of them. I dunno, there are implementations that I'd consider well done, but they all hinge around Naakual being alliance based: I don't expect that to happen. Ragnarok.Zohnax said: » Because I find it hard to believe these Naakuals will just be up and roaming Reives. They aren't. You need an undetermined fame up to a presumably high amount before even being able to get the key item to access it, and the key item will cost a *** of whatever it takes to buy it. ScaevolaBahamut said: » Sticking with pejoratives, WoW is quite the opposite from a hamster wheel grind. FFXI is the hamster wheel; that it's fun just proves Camus was right. WoW, on the other hand, is a slot machine you can play once a week that moves up to a bigger and fancier slot machine every couple of months. I've played WoW since launch and raided every expansion except Cataclysm (Abyssea won), and I can tell you straight up that getting the strongest weapon available in the game as a drop is boring and anticlimactic as ***and any satisfaction you derive from FFXI you owe at least in part to it never doing that to you. Cerberus.Pleebo said: » I do like the current RME economy but the game can't persist on ancient currency, HMPs, and Alex forever. Not to mention that the content associated with getting those items is inconsequential. You can clear Dynamis solo, trio (or less) new and old Salvage, and kill Qilin with an alliance of windowlickers. It's nice to see some modernization of this 10yo game, but I can't say I'm worried about it turning into the hamster wheel WoW type grind. I know what you mean about the economy and currency, but they've kept relics relevant for 10 years, kept R/M relevant when Empyreans came out (though there was a delay, as we know, in which R/M owners must have collectively *** their pants), and made adjustments to both Dynamis and Salvage so that the content remained relevant in one way or another. I'd be highly surprised if they just outclassed R/E/M and said "well, that's that." Especially if they did it with anything less than a full new line of legendary weapons. Legendaries are SE's babies, and they've already mentioned adjusting them. Yeah, I know, "stuff SE says versus stuff SE does," but they have kept legendaries relevant for the duration of their existence. I'd be very surprised if they did any differently now. I wasn't around when SE announced Empyreans (quit before Abyssea, came back some time after it was released), but I would hazard a guess that people were having the same sorts of conversations about them. Edit: Not to say that I'm against a little bit of gap-closing though. The idea that exists nowadays, that you NEED a R/E/M or you aren't worth taking to an event, is a bit sad. What the ***.
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