Subjob For RUN?

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Subjob for RUN?
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 Ragnarok.Agerknux
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By Ragnarok.Agerknux 2013-04-09 12:38:18
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I can't see why someone would want to go /drg for any job other than that haste earring. Now a days it is no longer of use because how easy it is to cap haste. I don't even think that replacing head/body/hands/feet would give enough utility that other subs provide.
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By Heimdel 2013-05-06 09:25:36
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WAs run/war at bhukis last night and it did a pretty good job and resisted a large amount of his enfeebs. At one point even ended up pulling hate and was tanking over a mnk and a nin and held hate using the spells and voke.

I've found /rdm can be a good sub for things where might nit be a cure around so u can have c4 and fast cast. /sam seems be problematic since there are spells it would interfere with like phalanx refresh stoneskin and aquaveil.

Another thing is people tend get to stuck on it using gs when it can do good with regular sword and merit ws and apparently axe to. There are a few shields it can use most noticeable is flame shield that has fire resist 30 though it says 20. Pld may be good with shield for matery and mor edef and auto refresh with some cures tossed in to.
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 Bismarck.Kuroganashi
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By Bismarck.Kuroganashi 2013-06-13 08:39:05
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kenshynofshiva said: »
Since lunge can Magic Burst I can't wait to try it out as a tanking sub for blu actually should be quite nice from the looks of it.

From dragoon an analysis of subs kindof fits except for hb triggers and pole-arm ws lol

Ophannus said: »
/SAM= Bread and butter, gives us the most tools to get the job done and happens to be the best DD option in 95% of cases(except in VW). Use this always unless indicated otherwise.

Pros:
+Hasso, sTP for TP gain and haste
+Sekkanoki for self skillchain or TP overflow(Drakesbane->Stardiver= Gravitation)
+Seigan&Third Eye will keep you alive in situations where you have hate i.e temporarily tanking, soloing old content like Limbus, too much hate etc)
+Demon Killer/Warding Circle help for demons which aren't that uncommon these days i.e Ig Alima, Dynamis-Xarc mobs.

Cons:
-A big con used to be healing but now with Restoring Breath this is mitigated to a great degree.
-Can't remove debuffs/ailments
-Attack is lower than with /WAR, although the pros really do outweigh this, especially the more magic haste you have.
-Lack of provoke may be a problem in low man situations where the tank is dead and you need to grab hate off of mages.


/WAR= Mainly for voidwatch or epeening damage in Abyssea.
Pros:
+Massive attack bonus from Attack at the cost of defense. In situations like VW where TP gain is more related to regain/Dusty Wings and not Store TP or attack speed, this plays a more vital role in overall damage than anything /SAM will net you.
+ 10% double Attack is very nice, can proc on Jumps and Weapon skills for curiously high damage/TP gain on a proc, can give this trait to the wyvern with Wyrm mail.
+Provoke actually is very handy when low manning content with a lot of 'lightly armored' jobs or mages and the main tank dies. Since our jumps either make 0 hate or shed hate, this can actually help you take control of the situation while everyone gets back on their feet.
+Defender isn't worthless, it can come in handy in the situation above, though not as effective as Seigan+Third Eye but maybe after the DEFENSE update, it will have more use, especially in conjunction with a PDT set.

Cons:
-While Berserk is nice, it can lead to you dying very fast. When berserk wears, most of the benefit of /WAR is lost while you're waiting for the recast.
-/WARs other job abilities like warcry are lackluster and don't really benefit you or your party by much.
-Lack of sTP traits means it's harder to get a 5-hit build which greatly impacts TP gain and the amount of swings necessary to reach 100%+.


/RDM
This is really the go-to subjob for soloing for many, many reasons. The spell list is huge and /RDM has many tools for a variety of situations and is my personal favorite.
Pros:
+Haste, a 3 minute 15% haste spell is extremely useful.
+Dia/Dia II, while dia makes a decent pull spell or HB trigger spell, Dia II is amazing for soloing semi hard or difficult fights or for chaining a lot of exp in quick succession. 10% defense down is nothing to scoff at especially when combined with Angon for a total of 35% defense down. To give you an example of how amazing that is, if you assume you have 1000ATK and the mob has 1000DEF, 35% defense down is about equivalent to you having +50% attack.
+Enspells, while seemingly weak, 9-12 damage every hit over 3 minutes can add up, especially on mobs that take extra damage to magic or have invincibility or something where they are immune to physical damage. Curiously enough the damage from an enspell is added on to your jumps and weapon skills although not indicated in the log, the damage is added already to the final damage total. Empathy this to your wyvern for extra benefit.
+Ice Spikes: I don't know if it's intentional but from my anecdotal experience, Ice Spikes' paralyze sticks about 15-25% ignoring level difference. Meaning the mob will receive the effect of the paralyze about 1/4 or 1/5 hits. As for the proc rate of the actual 'paralysis', it's about as potent as Paralyze II I'd wager. When I solo DC mobs in Dynamis Qufim as DRG/RDM, Ice Spikes paralyze has saved my life and procs extremely often, about 20-25%, I've seen it proc 4x in a row before, it's amazing.
+Cure IV, enough said
+Shell II, ProtIII, enough said
+Barspells: Amazing HB triggers and decent vs magic
+Sneak/Invis: enough said
+Dispel: Useful!
+Refresh: Godsend if you don't have autorefresh gear or ethereal earring yet!
+Convert: See Refresh
+FAST CAST: Amazingly useful, helps more than you think for HB triggers
+Magic Defense Bonus: Again helpful more than you realize
+Stoneskin/Blink: good as prebuffs before a difficult fight
+Aquaveil: prevent pesky interruptions to your HB trigger. Godsend on a HF mnk mob or fighting multiple mobs

Cons:
-Hard to remove debuffs, have to rely on Wyvern remove breaths
-Lower defense against very physical strong targets(like Orcus) in cases like that, /BLU shines a great deal more than /RDM.
-Lack an OMGWTF Divine Seal+Cure IV
-Lack of Banish could hurt you against skellies

/WHM
Pros:
+Can remove debuffs
+Banish: Useful vs skeletons
+Emergency Cure V with CureIV+DS, good if Wyvern dies and you need a little extra healing.
+Most of the same benefits as RDM, not gonna type em out

-Cons
-Everything black magic or trait related that /WHM lacks from /RDM is a con. Really /WHM is inferior and almost never used over /RDM or /BLU.

/BLM

--Don't bother with this, the only useful thing about this is Stun which is overrated if you're soloing unless it's for a specific mob/fight where you absolutely need it for some reason.


/BLU
-Practically as useful as /RDM, slightly different

Pros:
+Cocoon is mainly why this is used, +50% defense for 90 seconds means you can get crazy damage redux for certain hard fights
+Sprout Smack is a great HB trigger spell, a bit more MP than Power Attack or Rabbit Kick but the chance of sticking the added Slow Effect is quite high and the slow effect is moderately potent ~10-15%.
+Sandspin, this is similar to Dia in that the Accuracy Down almost always lands which could help if you're fighting something hard and need the extra debuff.
+Metallic Body: Can give you a decent 100ish Stoneskin, good prefight.
+Headbutt is another good HB trigger though more expensive, I alternate Headbutt with Sprout Smack, stun is moderately accurate.
+Refueling: Not as good as haste but better than nothing.
+Can set spells for traits i.e Killer or Auto regen, helps decently; also setting spells modifies your base stats, can get a decent boost to HP, VIT and STR by setting certain spells.
+Due to how BLU spell damage calc works, if you're fighting TW mobs, Bludgeon or Jet Stream actually deal quite high damage (400-600)
+Can dispel


Cons
-Lacks sneak/invis
-Lacks a defense down dia
-Unless you have a way to recover MP with gear or items, can run out of MP
-Wild carrot isnt as good as cure IV
-Poor against magic, no MDB or shell or barspells
-Must learn spells
-Some spells will 'fail to activate' if they fail an accuracy check.
-Less utility spells

This is useful but you missing still a few options:

/NIN

/DNC

/SCH

/PLD

/DRK


Would like to know those 3 if possible (also I thought it be a nice one to try PLD/RUN to see how it works, not too bad tbh.......... specially when solo-ing)
 Shiva.Ahleah
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By Shiva.Ahleah 2013-06-13 12:12:50
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/blm so you can save a Warp Scroll when you go change to a job actually useful.
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By Lyncath 2013-07-13 18:29:19
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I'm rather fond of /RDM for a myriad of reasons.

+ Extra MP.
+ Magic Atk. Bonus traits for Lunge.
+ Fast Cast traits to compliment Inspiration merits, with Haste and a full TP set on I can push the recast of Flash to obscenely low levels when Valiance/Valiation are active.
+ Haste becomes available through /RDM sub, since RUN has a native Enhancing Magic skill it's actually rather good to have around.
+ Cure IV is great for healing yourself in a pinch, also a great hate tool. Almost instant-recast doesn't hurt either.

- Offers close to nothing in terms of attack boosts.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-07-13 19:10:23
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I use that too when I'm solo in reives, otherwise I'm always /sam if I have a healer with me.
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By Shiva.Jirachi 2013-07-13 19:46:45
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I find for solo /PLD is good, It gives me a DEF Boost, Auto refresh, while having Refresh and Phalanx as normal RUN Magics Added with Regen using Runes to keep Magic damage down, if i start to fall on HP /PLD also supplies me with cures and sentinel if im low on HP it helps me get regen III (Im only lv80 atm) back up to safe HP level.

For events though ied say /WAR /SAM most likely you would have a WHM to help keep you alive, as for they can help supply higher damage output to make up for RUNs normal weakness.

If something is Magic Obligated ied say /WHM for extra Magic DEF Boost on top of RUNs ability to keep magic low (Tested at lv80 v.s. Megamaw with 3 runes up and no atma/enhancements Stone V did 56 damage without barstone)

I can also see /RDM for MAB like stated before and Haste.

I'd also suggest DNC as a sub for solo, because as /PLD i lack Sneak and Invisible.

In all honesty though I've leveled mine in campaign battle using RUN/PLD and i find it most useful for solo.
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 Cerberus.Diabolique
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By Cerberus.Diabolique 2013-07-13 20:10:09
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Whm shouldn't give you any extra M.Def from sub at all. Run surely has TierIII trait(at least) by itself.

Never tried /Pld solo, always /Rdm(for reasons listed above) or /Dnc. Sentinel would be nice to have some times though, just wish Pld sub got Cure4 at least and higher base MP.

Quote:
Cure IV is great for healing yourself in a pinch, also a great hate tool. Almost instant-recast doesn't hurt either.
Wouldn't tranquil heart lower the enmity from cure4 by a good bit? Doesn't seem reliable for enmity gain at all.
Bit difficult to get the spell to actually finish on higher level mobs as well, though I haven't played Run since merits were released.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-07-13 20:18:09
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Run has mdb 7.
 Shiva.Jirachi
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By Shiva.Jirachi 2013-07-13 20:20:53
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The extra MND contributes to Magic Def, but yes i did completely forget RUN gets multi-tiers of M.Def Boost. Thanks for that correction
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By Sylph.Mirvana 2013-07-13 20:26:08
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2-3 MND isn't gonna be as useful for a job that tells a tier-V it's only doing 80dmg. Fast Cast on the other hand is always welcome from /rdm, plus extra MAB for Lunge.
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By Shiva.Paulu 2013-07-13 20:37:27
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/nin. Evasion job with ruinator dualwield sounds fun. Now also had access to fastcast via merits to help with Utsu.
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By Sylph.Mirvana 2013-07-13 20:44:33
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aalak' axe +1 : Best Axe RUN can access {No, thanks.}

Stick with greatsword (or Swords if you really wanna DW since RUN can equip halachuinic sword) when you /nin.

RUN can get some great FastCast/Magoraga gears for Utsu-casting. If RUN could haste natively, /nin probably would be our best sub for solo/defense hands-down.
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By Siren.Kyte 2013-07-13 21:44:40
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Sylph.Mirvana said: »
2-3 MND isn't gonna be as useful for a job that tells a tier-V it's only doing 80dmg.

Not to mention that most magical attacks aren't MND-based to begin with.
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By Asura.Ccl 2013-07-13 22:05:45
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/nin earth staff when shadow down, wind when shadow up :P.


Atm for ally event, the only usefull subjob is /sam since you'll mainly do dmg, if we ever go back to tanking (or if you just want to have fun) /nin is pretty cool/fun but not really usefull atm sadly!

And unless we get access to better axe, Great sword is the only viable option I believe :(.
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By Sylph.Mirvana 2013-07-13 22:21:38
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Sword can be viable, but it basically requires you having some other job that really wants Haluciunic and Requiescat as well.

Great sword is just a lot easier to build sets around and Resolution is still potent w/ gears RUN can access. (Plus RUN can use Senbaak Nagan, which is way above any alternative weapon's best choice)
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-07-13 22:22:49
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Seems like RUN is turning out to be much better than it seemed originally.
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By Sylph.Mirvana 2013-07-13 22:28:11
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Because people stopped trying to just make it a DRK that wears thaumas coat.
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 Ragnarok.Redwolfx
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By Ragnarok.Redwolfx 2013-08-09 06:44:32
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what about /sch?
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-08-09 06:56:49
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Better off with rdm if need a mage sub, haste and fastcast alone make it superior.
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By Ragnarok.Redwolfx 2013-08-09 07:07:27
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Reason i ask i was looking at Embrava+Emboliden and stack with regan IV as well as stack with haste, also use Storm to increase damage on lunge and runes by 10%?

That with cursna and reraise, raise, erase, dispel, paralysna

plus accession,

Would Accession grant everyone in Party Foil?
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-08-09 07:10:33
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I don't know if Foil can be accessioned, but you can't embrava as sch sub and run main already has regen 4. Moreover sch doesn't grant you haste.
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By Ragnarok.Redwolfx 2013-08-09 07:37:20
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Foil can't be dispersed with accession;-;
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By Shiva.Spathaian 2013-08-09 07:50:50
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Best way to tell if something can be accessioned, if a SCH cannot natively have the spell at 99 (whether it be from itself or from a subjob) it can't be accessioned. The few exceptions to this rule are things like Haste and Raise/Reraise.
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By Phoenix.Thorbean 2013-08-09 09:05:49
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/SCH is the sub I take to WK reives as I never usually take a mage ^^ and my damage output is mostly irrelevant. It's actually pretty decent in WK's when you are able to hold hate via spells/ja alone. Cure 3 is pretty potent with light arts up and a lot more mp efficient than IV due to the skill increase. The only reason I tried it was no WHM would ever cure me even being the only tank holding the NM. I'd get lots of /checks but no cures...
Sublimation is so much better than refresh IMO, as you get ~500 mp instantly when you need it rather than having it trickle in after blowing a lot at once. Plus you don't need to spend MP to recover mp.

Crap if you want to deal decent DPS though, don't do it.
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By Asura.Calatilla 2013-08-09 09:21:39
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Ragnarok.Redwolfx said: »
Reason i ask i was looking at Embrava+Emboliden and stack with regan IV as well as stack with haste, also use Storm to increase damage on lunge and runes by 10%?

That with cursna and reraise, raise, erase, dispel, paralysna

plus accession,

Would Accession grant everyone in Party Foil?
You can only use Embrava under Tabula Rasa so it's unusable as /sch.
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By Ragnarok.Redwolfx 2013-08-09 10:45:24
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i figured itd be good for WK considering it could help additional pld tanks and mages nearby if u accession stoneskin here and there,

/sch seems to be just as good, i was more into the fact you could use storm that could potentially weaken nark bosses element even further 10-30% proc, already we take minimal damage with full bar spells+ abilies, including stoneskin potency incease recasting is a breeze nt to mention the additional runes... usually 0-40dmg top that off with spikes and battula.. and occasional rieve damage taken bonus we can stay out there the whole time,

as for damage yeah you probably wont do much outside of lunges maybe 400-1k depending,
but if you have 2nd RUN Gambit/Rayke for you so you can keep runes up at all times, duel tank it with a breeze. Considering you both will be using same element.. If you were to choose different elements than one would overwrite the previous one apparently

I have a question regarding Magician Trial weapons with Magic Defenes down+10~16 , if 10 people with those weapons proc using different weapons will it stack? how far can you lower magic defense?
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-08-09 10:47:12
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That would be a terrible choice, use an ilvl sword.
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 Ragnarok.Redwolfx
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By Ragnarok.Redwolfx 2013-08-09 10:50:54
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But would it increase lunge damage even further consider its MAB/MDB? lower the defense equal that of a gambit say if it was during beginning of the fight short time. w/o even using gambit..

If party members did that and follow up with a gambit how far can lunge dmg do?
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-08-09 10:51:58
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The massive skill on the ilvl swords increase your Lunge much more. And you can solo the gambit combo by yourself, just takes 20 seconds more.
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