New PLD 2-hour

Figured I would ask it here since the new 2-hours thread is going across all the jobs.

Anyway, what does everyone think of the new pld 2-hour. I'm not too happy with it myself. I figure we already have enough JA that do the same thing...

Original dev post

Depends on if they have a shared timer with the old 2hr.

Even if it isn't on a shared timer, They've given us a glorified Reprisal effect.

And I can't help but point out that SCH of all jobs gets the 2 hour that directs enmity from other players and puts it on a player of their choice...wtf lol

That's not the worst part though. If a PLD is even used, gear haste / fast cast / marchx2 = 1:10 Reprisal recast, effectively the same blocking rate for an Aegis as an Ochain. Unless the blocked attack ends up dealing 200 damage after block damage negation is applied, it's pretty useless.

MPK time lol XD

All i'd really have to say any NM's that Hundred Fists are dead as hell because they surely will be killing themselves..

10 damage per hit reflected to a monster whos HF matters won't dent its HP pool

It depends if its like reprisal and the damage delt is a percentage of the damage when unblocked then it might be ok but if its amount of damage after the block it will be worse than nins old 2hr.

100% or 75% damage reflected would be nice.

It reflects blocked damage, ie: 1 to 1 ratio of blocked to reflected. When I block I get hit for 10-20 points of damage. Can also survive most MNK mobs by throwing reprisal or shield gear up. On anything I'd consider using my 2hr as PLD, I'd want to survive to let mages recover, something this reflected thing wouldn't fix.

Could make some solo fights faster if you don't invincible.

If the damage is meritable with a multiplier, it'd be useful. Like Blocked x5.

Where does it tell you a 1:1 ratio? Reprisal says the same and with aegis and ochain you block with phalanx up for 0 damage.

If they gave PLD's anything enmity related, it would be even more useless. Unless they remove or increase enmity cap and then give a more reliable method of obtaining enmity, tanking goes to DD's.

I'm assuming its 1:1 from the description of the ability. Like you mentioned, in order to make the new 2hr useful, a PLD would have to first be taking damage, which any PLD tanking content that needs a tank, won't take damage during.

New PLD 2 hour
Grants an increase to the chance of blocking with a shield and reflects the blocked damage to the attacker.

Reprisal
Increases chance of blocking with shield, and reflects portion of blocked damage back to attacker.

Thats where the assumption of 1:1 comes from.

In terms of a 2-hour, yeah I totally agree. I think PLD does need something in terms of enmity control, a 2-hour wouldn't help that. I guess I just pointed out the SCH 2-hour because if tweaked the right way, it would be a nice addition to the PLD ability list to keep focus of the mob.

SE designed PLD to be the job with lots of defense and to be able to take a hit with ease. Problem is that if they cant keep the mob focused on themselves, that defense is worthless.

"reflects the blocked damage to the attacker."

I'm thinking it's going to reflect the difference between the Unblocked and blocked damages.

Like this: (Unblocked Damage) - (Blocked Damage) = Damage taken by attacker.

Wouldn't that make this 2 hour better with an Aegis/Ochain since they block a larger portion of damage which would be higher damage to the attacker. Also, if you're gonna use this 2 hour, take your phalanx off.

I'm moderately certain that the reflected dmg from reprisal is calculated before phalanx. But I admit, I've never done specific testing for that.

Also, Ochain actually has a slightly lower block dmg reduction than the avg size 3 shield. It just has that hella block rate.

If the block rate boost is moderately large, Aegis would be best for using the new 2hour offensively.

If the block rate boost is Huge(like, auto capped) then a tower shield like castellan's would yield the most dmg. Which would be funny, since it'd be the only use for that piece of garbage. XD

I think the biggest issue in terms of usability, offensively, would be whether the reflected dmg is subject to resists like reprisal.

On anything high lvl, reprisal does miniscule dmg due to resists. If the spikes deal little dmg, then the only offensive benefit left is TP from shield mastery(and if you were using ochain, you already had that).

At that point, what would this have over invincible? Invincible at least, is omnidirectional, and works on non-blockable sources of physical dmg(1K needles type moves, ranged attacks, etc).

Well, maybe the spikes will be un-resistable?

It says reflects blocked damage to the attacker not reflects damage taken after block. So mob hits for 200 you block say 190 of that mob takes 190 damage. At least thats how i view this so best damaging shields are aegis and ochain since they have the highest damage reduction out all ALL shields

Could you clarify a point for me?

In this case, by damage reduction, are you referring to the % by which a hit's dmg is reduced by blocking(generally called this Block dmg reduction).

Or do you mean the overall dmg reduced via the combination of block rate and block damage reduction? I.E, blocking 50% of the time for -60% dmg on block, etc.

Block damage reduction for that size shield.

I think base block damage reduction is 75% on aegis/ochain and then the % from the def:40 added on top?

They should just give pld an ability like snarl for bst's. make it take everyone in the party/alli's enmity give it to the pld and give it a recast of like 2-5 minutes. Even then its still not gonna solve all the issues with pld keeping hate but it would be a nice start.

pld should auto shield bash

Ochain's block dmg reduction is roughly 66.1% with a 99 PLD. So the shield itself is actually lower than that, as some of that value is coming from the shield def bonus trait.

I have Aegis at 81.1% reduction on 99 PLD.

Gleaming 71.4%
Weathering 74.0%
Tower 82.7%
Castellan's 90.4%

So, no. Aegis and Ochain do Not have the best block dmg reduction. They have the best combination of block rate and block dmg-. So they have the best overall dmg reduction, not perhit reduction.

The reason you don't hear much about the shields with higher block dmg- than Ochain/Aegis, is cause their block rates suck. So the overall dmg- is low.

Castellan's, for example, had a 25.1% block rate on lvl 105 mobs with base+merits shield skill. So on anything higher lvl, block rate would be nonexistent.

So. Castellans would yield the highest per hit spike dmg, but unless the block rate+ in huuuge, you'd lose out on # of spikes hits.

What'd be better for spikes between Aegis/Ochain will depend on current block rate, and the potency of the block rate+ from the new 2hour.

Aegis will do higher per hit, but Ochain will get more hits, unless Aegis caps block rate.

Ah i always read that Aegis had the highest block damage reduction, stupid wiki.

Would think with it being a 2hour that the block rate would be very high if not 100%.

As was stated earlier, the usefulness of this ability isn't really going to come from the block rate, but from the damage/resist rate of the reflected damage.

As more and more people acquire Aegis and Ochain, block rate increases on spells and abilities is going to become more and more irrelevant.

A high tier shield like Aegis and Ochain should be every main Paladins goal, and when you get it, a few of your abilities lose half their weight.

Palisade, for example, increases block rate and reduces enmity loss. It's a great ability, without a doubt. But when you no longer have to concern yourself with block rate due to having a Tier I shield, what does this ability really give you? A decrease in enmity loss.

Same for Reprisal. It's a fantastic spell and I think all Paladin's have utilized it since the day it was put into the game. But just like Palisade, once you aren't worried about block rate anymore, what does it provide? Some damage deflection.

This is the same boat the new 2hr is going to be in. At some point, the block rate portion of the ability is going to be nigh irrelevant, leaving you with (just like Reprisal) reflected damage.

Does anyone else think that perhaps PLD will get better because enmity will change when Seekers of Adoulin finally comes out?

Reason I ask is because if Rune Fencer is going to be a new magic tank, it seems to me SE would change the game dynamics to actually make the new job worthwhile. Also, if they are going to add a new tank job, they surely would bring the old tank jobs up to par.

Now I've heard from most people that the biggest and best change would be to get rid of the enmity cap all together, but I wonder/speculate exactly if SE will do this, or if they will change enmity on tank-specific jobs to allow them to get more enmity than other jobs in some form or fashion. I don't think SE would completely rechange the enmity principles of the tanking system, but surely they are going to do something to make changes and bring things congruent.

I mean, if not, then WTF would be the point in establishing a new magic tanking class for the game when 5x MNKS in a reg pt can just eat raw damage for breakfast?

e_e I feel us PLD's are standing on the edge of a frontier that expands before us with the fate of our very lives hanging in the balance. It's time for SE to either PUT UP or SHUT UP!

Of course, there are lots of fans who say "omfg gtfo stfu we are doomed it's pointless to continue this discussion.. life is so hollow, our quest is vain!" But I just figure, alot of other PLD players have been thinking this since news of Adoulin came about, along w/RNF. I mean... I'm holding onto one last hope anyway.

We're friends to the end? Or THIS IS THE END FRIEND? :/

Rune Fencer can use Great Sword, so all they need to do is spam Resolution and keep hate just like the DRKs do, except they will get the added benefits of their new buffs to make them a tank.


PLD is pretty well set with the gear they have, just have a hard time holding against DDs spamming crazy WSs.


I think they have already said they have absolutely no intention of changing anything having to do with the enmity cap. Also, they have said PLD will not be getting any abilities that would allow them to manipulate enmity.


lol $$$ because they flopped on FFXIV.

Honestly though, my opinion is the only thing that could help PLD to utilize the gear and defensive tools they have been given is a JA that keeps the mob's focus on the PLD similar to the way provoke works in ballista. However, I'm sure some people would say this is too big of a JA because it would just allow the DDs to zerg during the time they have that focus off them. There are pros and cons but they are getting to the point with PLD where its either they add some new ground-breaking JA to their arsenal, Revamp the enmity system, or just add a lot more battle content that forces groups not to zerg, or they die...and fast.

Most logical road for SE to take will be the latter. Bigger, stronger monsters that mercilessly wreak havoc on DDs. I'm thinking Adoulin will be the time they unveil them too. However we are getting a taste of it already with mobs like Odin V2.

Since it hasn't been mentioned, I used the new PLD 2hr a little while back on the test server in neo salvage. 99 PLD/RDM using 99 Ochain and the dmg reflection (going off memory, it was like a month ago or so) was doing ~200 dmg per block, and I was only taking ~50 dmg per hit iirc.

The enemity thing really would be very simple to fix. Simply add a piece of all jobs gear that raises the enemity cap for the wearer. Make it all jobs so people can't complain about being unfair being pld only and to let other jobs to tank if there is some need to.

that wouldn't fix anything for Pld at all, it would be right back to square one.

why would you wear it on a Pld when you could wear it on a War or Mnk and hold hate, tank effectively, AND do [a lot] more damage over time?