Christians: We Arent Trying To Condemn Anyone

Well since I can't describe any horrific graphic fantasies of harming WBC members or throw computers I guess I'll just play nice :C

In response to Boric, I don't necessarily believe religion is for the weak, although I used to.

I think anyone who has to vomit their own beliefs and shove it out in the open is weak. If you're a christian/muslim/atheist etc and you don't go around trying to convert people, trying to pick arguments at any opportunity that presents itself and enjoy the occasional, respectful debate or exchange of ideas, then I think that's cool.

But if you go around spewing your belief/opinions/philosophy on life or whatever the hell, having to forcefully shove it everywhere you can, hurl out insults etc, that to me seems like a desperate need to reinforce your own beliefs which clearly are not enough to stand on their own.

Wait! We're forgetting something! Why worry about the existence of God? The real question is...



I've been tossing this golly-whopper of a conundrum around since 2008 or so. I think I've finally settled on DNC.

others can do what they like but i will say that this total war on any sort of a show of faith by the media and the atheists is pissing me off. you don't believe fine, but don't intrude on my RIGHT to pray if i choose to. i won't try to make you pray so leave me alone if i choose to pray.

that's why i enjoyed seeing tebow succeed (course that didn't work out so well for him yesterday). there's nothing the atheist groups can do about him doing it.

can anyone explain to me why it pisses people who don't believe off so much if others do believe?

The media condemning faith? What TV are you watching? Is it American?

The fact is that faith (Christianity) dominates the US and even questions of alternative faith (Mormonism) are met with skepticism, disdain or general confusion by the mainstream public. Why else would the media bring up things like Mitt Romney's religious affiliation? Because the public are largely Catholics/Protestants and anything that doesn't fall in those two categories is an unknown. People fear unknowns.

If any politician ran as an atheist they can literally see their career go up in flames so I don't really see your point or feelings of being penned in by the 'oppressive atheist mainstream media'. Atheism is still quite negative in the mainstream especially if you go into the southern states where many people have to hide the fact for risk of property damage, loss of job or general discrimination.

It's like the 50s-60s with blacks all over again.

No one is objecting to your prayer or any observance of religious beliefs but what people are starting to sour on are these beliefs being forced down the throats of people who don't follow the practices (creationism, 10commandments in public places, govt-sanctioned prayer) and that is what annoys many religious people today try as they might to deflect it. They don't want compromise and they don't want to tolerate non-believers. Hell many can't even stand Hindu, Jews, Muslims or Sikh among other faiths.

Some atheists are generally annoyed because this is a country of religious freedom but some people see that as a reason to call this a Christian nation and ruthlessly oppress those who aren't waving that banner. Sure, some believers are willing to accept religious freedom but the fact is that the current situation is anything but christians being oppressed by the atheist masses.

Most of the arguments I see on here have to do with what is seen as intrusions or attacks by those who come out and say things like "You're going to hell if you don't believe, (insert whatever other accusation here)" and the stuff like that.

On the one hand I do see where people are coming from as I believe in equal rights and those that lobby against equality as such in the case of gay marriage is unsightly. On the other hand I don't see why those on both sides can't voice their opinion and lobby for whatever they would like to.

I'm very conflicted on the matter as I believe in the right people have to say and believe what they want. The question that needs to be answered I guess is how far can people go with their words? Should we censor those we deem to spout hateful comments? Should people be allowed to believe in and say what they want?

We already attempt to stop actions, do we also try to stop people's words and beliefs? Who deems what is correct and what is not? I see quite a few people throw out that Benjamin Franklin quote when they feel that they should not have to deal with the TSA and other such things. Though, when it comes to something that is disliked by them they could care less if that is censored or not. Stuff like this happens and I hear things like "can we join together and burn these people?" or other such "solutions" or insults. I very rarely hear any kind of meaningful conversation on how to curb these things or working to make a better society, just more of the violence begets violence stuff.

I've heard people tell racist jokes, religious jokes, handicapped jokes and even make light or joke about pedophilia and rape. All of those things can and most likely are offensive to someone else. I watched a guy tell a joke one time that sent a girl crying while they laughed and laughed and laughed.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is who defines what is okay and what goes too far? Who decides what we can and can't say or what to believe? Who decides what is good for one or good for all and which is more important? Are we dominated by our own personal feelings/experiences/opinions? Does that create a bias in ourselves that we express to others?

Maybe I'm just silly and have no idea what I'm talking about though.

Did you seriously go there?

Ruthlessly oppress? I really must have grown up in a foreign nation.

In response to Psubond:

Well, I'm an atheist and I don't give a crap about people praying. Can you explain to me why it pisses people off when others DON'T believe?

It's all subjective. You can't assume (Or rather TRY to not assume, since it can be hard when you encounter people who are the prime example of what you're arguing against) that one person or a sample of people represents the whole.

There's a group of psychos at my university with some organization called God The Mother who go around bugging you non-stop, literally, about why you should believe and god and they don't understand "no", and when you finally get them to leave you alone they slip in a comment about how you're doomed to go to hell. But of course I know this doesn't represent all religious folk. Two sides of the coin no matter which perspective you view it from.

That's the point though isn't it? A small group doesn't represent the whole. I would wager that the majority of atheists and the majority of theists could care less about what the other does with their personal lives.

The reason atheists dislike theist so much is because they are always pushing some belief or condoning and demonizing others because of something. Also on the note about how media is biased against religion is incorrect, or at least when it pertains to United states since all the big news networks love to endorse religion and talk down to those who disbelieve(go ahead and youtube bill from fox and any debate he has had with Richard Dawkins). Another problem atheist have with theist is the way they try to reason why religion is needed for morality and for all things practical atheists hate it when our taxes are used to fund beliefs in schools or else where.

I would think the same, for the most part I'd agree that people are relatively peaceful from both sides of the argument, but it's the nuts and psychos from both sides that manage to get themselves in the media for whatever reason, and well, it's just a vicious circle from there on.

Baw baw, I'm a majority that feels like I'm being persecuted because my religion is slowly being taken out of the secular government because other people have feelings too, BAW BAW!!!!!!!!!!!!

When the *** has your right to pray ever been infringed upon?

Yeah, maybe you won't, but then why do we have issues like Cranston High having a prayer banner, despite being a government run institution--a public school--and then having the student body threatening to assault, jump, and maim the girl that asked for it to be removed?

The *** does that have to do with anything?

Because you teach children that your unfounded belief is true, you indoctrinate, you genitally mutilate children. Because religion teaches that you have to apologize for being human. Because you're spreading a *** 2000+ year old story that has NO *** BASIS IN REALITY.

That's why I'm pissed off: because you're teaching malleable kids that God loves them but will burn them in Hell if they don't love them after you chop their foreskin off their penis and you involve all this *** into politics and whine the *** out of with your imaginary war on religion. Religion is anti-intellectual, anti-educational, and all around it's a pile of ***that the world would be better off without.

That's why I hate it that you believe.

I'm sorry. I've never seen any of the things you mentioned here.

Your text to link here...

I'll agree that there are theists that try to push their beliefs on others but I'd have to say (and this is mostly from my experience on these boards) that Atheists do the same. There isn't a religious thread on these boards that doesn't have someone talking about how religion is destroying and they should do away with it and how terrible it is.

Okay, one side tries to reason that theology is needed for those things and the other tries to reason it does not. and?

As for tax dollars funding beliefs in schools... I don't know where you are from but here in Illinois religion and the like is not allowed in public schools. I think the only issue we have had is that god is mentioned in the pledge of allegiance. I love how most days public school teachers (at least in the city) are decried for not being wonderful teachers and the next they are teaching theology in schools. I'm not particularly sure where the tax dollars are funding theological beliefs elsewhere as you say.

http://atheism.about.com/od/attacksonatheism/p/AtheistBigotry.htm

http://articles.cnn.com/2008-07-08/us/atheist.soldier_1_tours-discrimination-bible?_s=PM:US

Just Google it, lol, I can't believe you've never heard of atheists being discriminated against.

Politics says hi.

Poor poor atheists. It must have been so horrible to be captured from your homeland by Spaniards then sold off to the colonist of the budding United States. Whole families ripped apart! Oh the oppression! I can't imagine what horrible infringements on civil rights you must have suffered. Were you not allowed to drink from the same fountain? I'm sorry you were seated in the back of the bus.

Nope. We don't take kindly to your kind 'round these parts, boy. Now git!

Come on, Sparth. Seriously?

I did go there because there are parallels between the situations.

You have a minority of people no different from the mainstream except for one question (belief), a majority who are happy to embrace the status quo, a segment who play the apathy card, doors that immediately close for being in the minority, people who cry foul any time the minority brings up the fact that the status quo is unfair, people who see that the minority is no different from the majority and catch flak for it and the inevitable majority that cries they're being attacked when the minority asks for some equality.

You realize there is a reason that people don't often go flaunting their atheism in public right? On the internet it's ok but in public? Countless stories you can read on the web if you so choose of discrimination, lost jobs, property damage etc.

Mileage varies based on where you live within the states.

@Zahrah

How many atheists were fed to the flames prior to this relatively short age of tolerance? Parallels exist. Many famous people of their day couldn't even bring themselves to admit their lack of belief because of the toxic effect it had on your personal life.

Being atheist is pretty much in the same category as being gay in America. Some people don't care, others will tear you apart for it, many are afraid to admit it and others will support you. Slowly we creep towards general acceptance.

Blacks were captured by the Spaniards in the 1950s-60s?

I have, but I don't appreciate the insinuation that the entire South functions the same way as little, po-dunk towns.

Those blacks in the 50's and 60's weren't sold and you know it: you're making what I think is called a false dichotomy.

In the 50's and 60's blacks that attempted to move into white areas were run out of the area. Their property was vandalized. Their funerals for their leaders were picketed. They were treated as second class citizens.

Though not as widespread as the anti-black racism, to say that there isn't racism against atheists is laughable.

No one made that insinuation.

I find it humorous that you flame up when people insult the South in the same conversation where we explain that atheists face issues. It's the same damn thing, and you often criticize atheists for voicing the same damn thing you just did.

Make no mistake the discrimination isn't limited to the 'south' but some of the more popular cases have happened in those states.

Don't think I'm just labeling the south as the problem and ignoring the rest of the US but the evangelical population density in those regions are a factor in discrimination.

Seriously?!? OMG! Do you really think I believe African_Americans were sold into salvery in the 1950's and 1960's?


My point is that in the whole scope of things your sob story isn't going to work considering long history. I really don't feel sympathetic in any capacity, and I find it horrible that you would even compare your "struggle" to that of African-Americans'.

Current events in Rhode Island show that it extends far beyond the South. You know about the Jessica Ahlquist situation?

Yes, atheist do try to convince others that religion is wrong, but their argument is one based upon scientific facts that can be observed and recorded as oppose to using the writings of barbarians 2000 years ago. In order to not try and reinvent the wheel sort of speak, watch this video.

As far as money being used to support beliefs look at the debate on teaching creationism or evolution in public schools.

I don't know where you live or where this takes place but I live in a major metropolitan city and I not only grew up with but work with people that are atheists. Never have I once seen or heard them talk about discrimination and they don't hide their affiliation. Maybe I just grew up/live in an odd place. I guess I personally don't know a lot of people that flaunt their beliefs at all though.

I have been personally attacked and had my life threatened based on who I am though and at the time what I was raised to believe. When I was 16 they called and threatened my life and came to my house and assaulted me because I a white Catholic and I was dating their daughter unaware of my offense against them. I was attacked because of my race and religious affiliation. Am I then a target of discrimination? Probably sounds silly to you huh?

We're not comparing our struggle, and I like how you keep trivializing it, to the entirety of the African-Americans. It was related to a period of time in their history that we can see parallels to.

Sam Harris is the face that atheism needs. I'm glad he's here during the years where the atheist movement is finally gaining ground.

I don't hire religious people is this against the law