Christians: We Arent Trying To Condemn Anyone

Hey, I'm slinging well intentioned and spell-checked dog poo.

I couldn't decided to reply with that, or the fact that vinegar actually does attract more flies because of the acid in it. The dog poo was funnier.

I've heard that too. Where the hell did that idiom come from anyway?

Wrong. You believe in the nonexistence of something unprovable. It is a belief. As to branches and ideology, search Madalyn Murray O'Hair.


In the dictionary yes.


AGNOSTICS lack any belief. Atheists believe. Search agnostic too.


If you wish to get into insults, fair warning: I not only know more than you, I have a better vocabulary. While you do not seem unarmed for a battle of either wits or insults, its going to be like the knife to a gunfight thing, except the gun is a 7.62 chaingun.


THIS. Do search agnostic, please.


Here we agree.

That was so last-page.

We don't believe, that's the definition to the letter of atheism.

You're so last page!

I'm not sure but I'd rather hear Karl Pilkington's explanation.

Now, where were we?


Actually, I can think of example where I was taken aback by someone's religious beliefs that was recent.

So, I have a friend who was raised in a fair-weather Jewish home. Well, when she was about nineteen she met a guy from synagogue who whisked her away to be married within the eight months that they had met each other. He dropped his degree in engineering, and just went absolutely nutty. He adopted some very bizarre ideas from scripture. More specifically, ones about domestic life.

Anyway, my friend was young, not that bright, and extremely gullible. She had this romanticized idea of love and marriage. (Which her sister and I find laughable.) He began imposing his idea of Biblically righteous home on her. Shawls must be worn in public, she could not shave her legs, birth control was out of the question, etc.

She ended up having three daughters within the span of two and two-thirds years before she had a meltdown. (Also, she wasn't able to receive the care of actual medical professionals during each pregnancy because her husband denies medical science that much!) I think it was after two Christmases ago that she, her sister, and I met up while she was staying with her mother. (She had horrible PPD after the third birth to the extent where she just felt like walking away, and never coming back.) She really wanted to go back to school, so her sister and I suggested that she just go get an IUD without telling her husband.

She waited too long. She just had her fourth daughter in August. She's basically chained to the household. It's sad that all of this has happened because of her husband's stringent rules that he takes from scripture and manipulates. Her sister and I wished that she had been less sunshine and daisies in the beginning, because she will say herself that her life is hell now.

YES!!!

This quote is generally attributed to British historian Stephen Roberts.

That's awesome you picked up on that.

See my post. Agnostic and atheist are not mutually exclusive terms. Nor is Agnostic and theist, or gnostic and either.

As I've read (though I can't find the polls, of course. I should start saving links) the majority of atheists asked are agnostic atheists (also affectionately referred to as Teapot Atheists).

As to answer your last question, Christians, Muslims, atheists, are all arrogant, because all three of them are wrong on one thing, none of us can absolutely claim to be right, that's why it is faith and belief. You can say atheism isn't a belief, but really everything is a belief, you believe there is no God or higher power. I think your message needs to be that "atheism is not a faith."

No lie, As I Lay Dying, All That Remains and Haste the Day as well as non-metal Christian bands like Skillet have definitely helped me down the path of live and let live.

I'm sure most believers would be content to simply call that guy crazy and not representative of the belief system except... you can infact extract some pretty 'crazy' (by our standards) things from scripture if you actually read it. Treatment of women in the major 3 monotheism's is abysmal in my opinion in all but the most liberal cases.

It ranges from women being nothing more than breeding machines to expendable tools used accomplish male goals to outright fear and paranoia. She's not a virgin? She's worthless and has dishonored the family.

For a book considered to be the most important thing in many lives, it is astounding how illiterate the people of the US are with regards to the Bible. I've seen alot of numbers on Biblical literacy and the rates for evangelicals (often the most vocal believers) are pathetic and I can only imagine the numbers get worse from there are out.

Sometimes the idea that non-believers are more versed in biblical text turns out to be shockingly true and many believers are forced to play defensive or outright call '***' when passages are quoted that they don't care for. Why don't believers care to read the text? It's confusing many of these same persons are quick to prostrate themselves in the name of Jesus, condemn homosexuals, cry abortion is murder etc etc.

It's just my guess but religion is less about following teachings to the letter and more about piecing together whatever you agree with to justify your life. I'm sure people will disagree with that but it's how it looks from my vantage point. I forget who came up the term 'cafeteria Christianity' but I thought it was spot on.

Of course the same term can apply to any faith.

This woman needs to escape this household. This guy isn't right in the head, it just so happens that religion is involved, but this is straight lunacy. This sounds like emotional abuse, because domestic abuse does not have to be physical, she needs to leave. This is one of those times that I feel like an intervention is needed.

Sparth, I throw polytheism out the window because of the power struggles that would ensue. Take a look at Greek Gods. They always fight Zeus for the reigns to the whole thing. I believe, that if this existence were created by multiple lesser gods as opposed to a single all powerful God, we would have been annihilated out of existence due to their fighting and/or hatred towards one another('s creations). The great possibility that we would no longer exist is my reasoning behind a monotheistic belief. The fact that I get the same awe inspiring 'vibe' (for lack of a better term) when I look at a flower as when I look at the moon, or feel a breeze rush over me is the emotion behind my monotheistic belief.

We just got through going over a book in our life group "Love & Respect", teaching the idea of a woman respecting a man, no matter his deservingness,and for a man to love (and show love) to the woman, no matter hers. It emphasized from the first sentence to the last, the equality of each partner and how a marriage only works properly when both give 100% to one another and put themselves last.

Sorry for the super quotes.

Well, she's had opportunities to do just that. Her mother offered her home. Her sister offered her her rental home and a clerical job at her in-law's company. I offered her my home until she could get on her feet and also gave her contacts to some higher-ups that needed administrative support at the company that I work for. Everyone knows she needs to leave, but that's ultimately up to her.

The Christian God is but one definition of a higher power you have chosen and there are huge differences based on the characteristics you put on a God model. The Christian God is very different in behavioral characteristics than Odin, Ra or the beliefs of Shintoism so they can't all be the same entity.

The God of the OT is wrathful, jealous, war-like and feared by his people.
The Greek Pantheon saw humans as mere chess pieces to be effectively toyed with at their whim.
Shintoism effectively places Japan as a paradise created by the Gods for people.
Java Islanders see spirits in the trees, people and animals.

This is what I'm getting at. A human first must choose theism as we're all born devoid of any religious faith. If you choose theism and actually pick one of the Gods that have spread across human civilizations you've effectively asserted the others are false and further asserted that your characteristics are valid and correct.

You cannot simply pave over all the gods and call them the same because Zeus isn't Jesus and Ra isn't Odin. They don't even have the same characteristics or personalities according to the people that worship/ed them. Heaven's description isn't equal to the halls of Valhalla or the majesty of Mount Olympus.


So the pagan Gods were the sons and daughters of fallen angels? That would mean we could find bones of these celestial creatures. Where are they?


So you basically chose one religion and hope (on faith) it's the correct one as you have no evidence your religion is the true faith over other equally credible claims.


Atheism isn't a faith. I thought that was pretty textbook.

Found them!!!

Maybe? No?

The Christian God is but one definition of a higher power you have chosen and there are huge differences based on the characteristics you put on a God model. The Christian God is very different in behavioral characteristics than Odin, Ra or the beliefs of Shintoism so they can't all be the same entity.

And how many people worship those gods anymore? Let's stick to where I clearly defined the major religions of the world.

The God of the OT is wrathful, jealous, war-like and feared by his people.
The Greek Pantheon saw humans as mere chess pieces to be effectively toyed with at their whim.
Shintoism effectively places Japan as a paradise created by the Gods for people.
Java Islanders see spirits in the trees, people and animals.

This is what I'm getting at. A human first must choose theism as we're all born devoid of any religious faith. If you choose theism and actually pick one of the Gods that have spread across human civilizations you've effectively asserted the others are false and further asserted that your characteristics are valid and correct.

You cannot simply pave over all the gods and call them the same because Zeus isn't Jesus and Ra isn't Odin. They don't even have the same characteristics or personalities according to the people that worship/ed them. Heaven's description isn't equal to the halls of Valhalla or the majesty of Mount Olympus.


So the pagan Gods were the sons and daughters of fallen angels? That would mean we could find bones of these celestial creatures. Where are they?

There was actually a special on History channel in which they believe they located the grave of Hercules.


So you basically chose one religion and hope (on faith) it's the correct one as you have no evidence your religion is the true faith over other equally credible claims.

I could change that paragraph and essentially apply it to atheism. Humans aren't perfect, and therefore they are very capable of dividing the same deity into multiple different religions which are all really the same. I don't understand why I can open up my Facebook and speak to someone of the Islamic faith who can essentially agree we all have different labels for the same being, but the atheists, the supposed open minded ones, cannot fathom this?


Atheism isn't a faith. I thought that was pretty textbook.[/quote]

QFT.

Why would you throw out polytheism because of power struggles? The human race is the definitive example of a species that constantly fights itself yet manages to squeak out an existence on this planet without destroying itself so I see no reason why a bunch of gods couldn't do the same if we take the definition of a god/goddess as an entity existing in a higher plane than humans with powers/abilities far beyond out comprehension.

I throw polytheism, at least the ones we are aware of, out of the window, because they place the polytheistic empires and their domains as places on this planet that we can visit, when no such places exist.

How close are we at this very moment from wiping ourselves out of existence? We continually strive to build things that can destroy us. With gods, already having that power to wield, we would be long gone as part of a pissing match between two or more. I think that is also part of the explanation of the Trinity. There are various parts, but it is all one God. Could that mean a different piece created the oceans than say stars, maybe so. It is all still our creating and ruling force "God", however. The Bible speaks of the son, Jesus, as the Word of God. It states that all things were/are/will be created through Him. Since there is man made objects that exist, I'm going to assume that was a liberal explanation, as in a direct or indirect manner, all things have been created by the will of God, exercised through the Word of God. I don't think it meant that Jesus grabbed a hammer and an anvil and went to work making earth. God being above and beyond our comprehension, I'm not really ruling out, per se, polytheism, I just say it doesn't seem like the best description of how I believe God to be.

Well, you can certainly visit Diros Cave (the gate to Hades), but what if the River Styx could just be a metaphor for the transition just like that beam of light that some claim they see before dying. Asphodel Meadows...Heaven? Tartarus...Hell?

Leila, I made that thread I spoke of earlier, finally. Unfortunately, it became a thesis. Sorry in advance for anyone who actually reads the thing in its entirety. It will give anyone wondering some insight on 1) what I think is good for any practicing Christian and 2) part of what makes me tick in this whole faith thing.

I think a lot of "places" described in the Bible (or other religious texts for that matter) involve transitions into other realms of existence, and there will be no proof for or against them in this plane of existence. We may very well be in heaven/hell as well speak, just not in the capacity we will be after this round ends.