Upheaval Thoughts

Um.
Excuse me?

THF > DNC!

Yes, because THF has an actual application (treasure hunter), and DNC, while having superior offensive capacities, still has subpar offensive capacities, has no actual application to justify its use.

Moving on.

That wasn't meant to be taken seriously :p

I'm sorry, but I tend to vomit up accurate information when startled.

Are we arguing right now?
:)

It's not so much the fact he didn't believe it, it's the way he said it.

No.
Things that aren't possible don't happen.

You'd need blood rage up a majority of the time and gain nothing from accuracy for Ukon to be a clear winner(assuming tier 2+ mobs in NQ chambers don't have this trait). Which Ragna can nearly negate with 5/5 savagery and relic mask +2 augment for +70 TP bonus to everyone.



It's more so that he called *** on me while claiming to have his own data showing otherwise(which he didn't even show to dispel my claims), which he obviously didn't have or didn't even bother to look at in detail before running his mouth.

It's ok Ejiin, I respect you, and that's what counts.

Thanks again.

I called BS on you because you stated something with nothing to back it up, my Mul parses were this: we killed all of wave 1 then 2, killed all of wave 1 then most of wave 2, and the last two we killed all of 1 2 and 1 mob in 3. In none of them did I notice my overall crit rate, which is what I was looking at, drop all that significantly, or I would of noticed that 'hey, it went down a ton.' This probably has a lot to do with using mighty strikes and full timing blood rage and ***, but whatever, continue being a douchebag when you were the one making outlandish claims with no supporting evidence when I was simply pointing out what you were doing.


What you're missing is the backstory, where the 'ffxiah click' trys to say one thing, and then I prove them wrong repeatedly, and they get mad at me. The most recent of which is Nightfrye when he tries to talk about the 5% DW belt being better for NIN than Twilight. Which, don't get me wrong, if you no one is casting haste on you, thats totally true, but in such a situation you should be using Oynos Knife or a WHM/RDM/SCH/BRD mule to haste yourself, so that situation doesn't happen ever.

Clearly.

Turnabout is fair play.

I can't even be assed to go through your BG/AH history and point out the obvious hypocrisy of your posts. It's quite humorous and entertaining, so please continue to call Ejiin an outlandish liar and whatnot.

I know this seems like beating a dead horse, but I overlooked some of this and would like to comment.


Are you assuming we bring 18 real people? We almost always have 5 people dual boxing and in some cases myself and another are 3-boxing.



This is where you need to come back down to reality and look at the facts of what's really going on versus looking at a spreadsheet under perfect situations.

1) AM3: You don't start every new monster with a fresh AM3, which is a large reason Ukon is close to Ragna on paper. In the time it takes you to get 300% tp again, the Ragna WAR has just done Reso twice. This will happen 3~ times assuming you aren't stopping completely just to wait for Embrava to tick you to 300% before fighting the next.

2) Blood Rage: You are not full timing BR in Mul. If you are, you're wasting 2min killing time for JA to come back up. You should be killing none stop for the 1st 6min of Mul w/o locking or anything and basically the same wave2, but usually with 1 "buff" break before last mob. Now your "full timing blood rage" is really 60% of the time with 3 WARs cycling.

3) -PDT: You will need to kill mobs without PD if you want to progress w/o relying on WC reset. Accuracy advantage to Ragna.

4) -Crit: This seals the deal, basically. You can argue using Ukon for wave1 and swapping to Ragna for wave2, but overall, Ragna is just superior for Mul.

Again, I'm not trying to belittle Ukon, or convince anyone into making a Ragna. I'm just sharing my unbiased(if anything my biased is more twords Ukon) experience as a WAR who has done a lot of Legion.

It's not hard to keep AM2 up, and AM3 isn't required for Ukon to win, on normal ***, the addition of a -crit trait sure is a kick in the nuts though.


If you manage to kill every mob in rapid succession then good for you, my group doesnt, and with 3 WARs its easy to keep Bloodrage up full time. I find this idea hard to understand though. I basically look at Legion as a series of 30 second to 1 minute 30 second fights with 30 seconds to 1 minute between fights. Mul is definitely going to be in the 1 to 1:30 fight time range, and even if there's only 30 seconds between mobs, with 3 WARs you can Blood rage them all. If it's less than that I still don't really see a problem since what I actually advocate is 4 WARs and 1 DRK for the DD party in Legion. If you're killing 5 mobs in under 5 minutes get back to me though, cause that would be crazy.

All I'm sure of is I have yet to run into a time when Blood Rage wasn't actually up when pulling the 4th mob of a wave on the person who used it the first mob. Maybe we screw around a bit longer than we should between mobs, but 6-7 minutes for wave1 and 6-7 minutes for wave2 should be about Ideal, and all that is really achievable. Which would actually give you enough time to keep BR up on all of them since the 4th mob in the wave would be engaged at the 5 minute mark. And this is also what you said, 6 minutes per wave. 3 Blood rages for the first 3 mobs from the 3 WARs, last mob is pulled at the 5 minute mark, the first WAR to use BR has it up again and uses it, mob dies at 6 minutes.

The only thing that would be debatable is the 3rd mob of wave 2, and if you could have Blood Rage up for that mob with 3 WARs instead of 4. But then if you do buffs before wave1 mob4, and then hold them while w2 mobs are spawning, and then fight 1+2, then rebuff, then do 3+4, then rebuffs for Ig/Rex, that should be ideal and what you're actually doing ya? Or maybe rebuff after w3 m1? If you did something like that you could still keep BR up the whole time with 3 WARs.

Do you happen to have some kind of recording of your Mul runs? Whats the shortest amount of time between engaging wave1 mob1 and mob4? Kparser I know saves the engage times, is that what you use? do you want to check?


My ACC is capped with Ukon without really giving up anything, and I dont really wear my PDT set much in Legion anymore, even without PD, but I do take my Rancor collar off a lot.


The crit trait has potential to bring Ragnarok in line with Ukon or make it better, it depends largely on what % it is, or if there are also other hidden mechanics at work and not just a -crit trait.


Did anyone ever figure out how much attack you need to cap on wave2/3 mobs in Mul? Or how much ACC you need?

Did Mul today, tried really hard, managed to kill of wave 1 in under 5 minutes. It was about 4 minutes 55 seconds, but whatever. Wave 2 we couldnt do that fast though.

It's only ahead because of AM3. Assuming an average of 12% boost of crit rate with 3 WARs cycling BR and AM1, Ukon is roughly 5.3% behind of Rag(assuming the WARs are cycling warcry instead, which will specifically benefit your group even more since you're using gimp chaos roll and don't have 4 songs), 1.7% behind with AM2, and winning by 1.8% with AM3. I've already explained how assuming you can flawlessly maintain AM2 or 3 and lose nothing to Rag is blissful ignorance at best.



So, exactly like what I've been explaining to you?

Anyways, keep defending Ukon with your flawed logic and ignorance. I'll continue to look at the facts and prove you wrong.

If you're going to 'prove me wrong' than I expect more than "because I said so" as proof you're right. Spreadsheets don't count either, as everyone says to me, show your work.


You said your group takes 6 minutes, which leaves enough time to get BR up every mob with 3 WARs, and I advocated 4 WARs. So..... what are you arguing again? That your group could do it with 3 or that mine would need 4?

So just saying.....

how about you cook a new thread to have a lolz-fight-ffxi and keep giving thoughts on Upheaval? Bit pooop when you come along thinking "Wooooooo new upheaval thoughts." you get here and it is all like.

"beep beep beep fight over some stuff not relevant to post blah blah my e-peen is bigger then your e-peen."

Just saying. :)

Seeing as this is somehow now the WAR Legion thread:


Are you going full PDT, or some sort of hybrid to at least get decent accuracy and gear haste?

What proof have you bring to this argument so far other than you killed 14 mobs in a tier 1 (and I am guessing that it is supposed to be something to be proud of?)? There are a billion parse results showing a rag drk with 140+ dex in tp gears with 2% critical hit against wave 2 mobs that's somehow not proof to you? and 0% critical hit rate across the board against Gallu aside from a WAR using mighty strike with 75% crit? How in the world is a Ukon WAR going to win against Rag WAR when in wave2 your WS damage is practically cut in half? and how do you get 300% TP to keep AM3 up? do you not lock buffs in between fights? Show us some parses please instead of keep asking for ppl to show you theirs. You are the only person disagreeing here, so you should be the one with proof to show that the others are wrong, not the other way around. So far you have only been saying blah blah I think Ukon > Rag blah blah I cap Accuracy without trying blah blah I beat T2 in 4 tries blah blah I kill wave 1 in under 5 mins blah blah.... where is your parse?

Just have to point out that Kiaru +'d this post. It brought tears of joy to my eyes.

Kiaru being the person who calls Nightfyre/Austar trolls, etc.

If you bother to look at the thread and read it you would see the following occur in this order:

Eijin: Mobs have a -crit trait
Kaerin: No they don't, why you gonna say stuff like that and offer no proof? Back up your claim if you expect me to believe that
Martel: Here's lots of parses that show something is going on
Kaerin: I called BS on you (Eijin) because you stated something with nothing to back it up, my Mul parses were this: we killed all of wave 1 then 2, killed all of wave 1 then most of wave 2, and the last two we killed all of 1 2 and 1 mob in 3. In none of them did I notice my overall crit rate, which is what I was looking at, drop all that significantly, or I would of noticed that 'hey, it went down a ton.' This probably has a lot to do with using mighty strikes and full timing blood rage and ***, but whatever, continue being a douchebag when you were the one making outlandish claims with no supporting evidence when I was simply pointing out what you were doing.
Returner: Y U NO BELIEFFFF!?!? U SO DUMMMBBBB 2 NOT BELIEF!

I brought no proof to the thread of anything, except the statement of why I didn't notice my overall crit drop that much. Since Martel showed actual proof that it's true, I have believed they have a -crit trait. You're just to stupid to see that I guess, or maybe you like riding these other peoples nuts, or maybe you're just a sock puppet, I don't really care. The point is you should lern 2 reed.


About the ACC thing, here ya go:

Mul, wave2+3 only. Ukonvasara99, Hasso, Aggressor, 1 Madrigal, sometimes feint, and this TP set:

94% Accuracy is within the error range of 95% ACC given that its a small sample size, but clearly, my accuracy is capped, or so close to it that it doesn't matter and a few parses won't help. (Accuracy caps at 95%)

EDIT:
Was actually using Agasaya's Collar, not Rancor

This is the most amusing thread we've had in a while.

I'm amused anytime I watch someone pedal backwards.

IB4 ACC caps at 95% so I am clearly capped at 94%.

This pretty much.. I did come here with the expectation of seeing gear sets and opinions on the ws... which started on first 4 pages....(and I am not sure how even relevant they are any more) then got lost to this bull crap of legion bollocks which belongs in another thread entirely.....

Dont get me wrong the conversation has been quite amusing to read. Doesn't mean it belongs here though.

Given the crit rate nerf on tier 2/3, what Upheaval set should people use?

Kaerin's TP set has 576 Acc before buffs/debuffs and is close to the Acc cap if I assumed everything correctly. If we were aiming to make an Upheaval set with 576 Acc (440 skill), we would need 160 Acc from DEX/gear. I need 85 of those in DEX/Acc from gear.

This set puts me 7 Acc over that:

which is probably good, considering stuff like Oneiros Pebble and Wrathwing Nails are pretty uncommon. Obviously if I included the new WAR Abjuration set I could make a better build, but that's not very realistic.

Just based on my napkin math, even a set like that would be preferable with Upheaval to 100TP Ukko's on Tier 2-3 Mul monsters.