Ochain
Ochain
Go BLU for those
Bahamut.Raenryong said:
Almace is bigger than Ochain for PLD at the moment in terms of making it a functional "tank" in group events though Ochain adds more in terms of lowman function.
I fully intend to level my PLD as a DD onry as soon as I get 85Almace when the servers come up <_> should be funny to be able to outDD the vast majority of players on either my melee RDM or PLD.
I fully intend to level my PLD as a DD onry as soon as I get 85Almace when the servers come up <_> should be funny to be able to outDD the vast majority of players on either my melee RDM or PLD.
Pld may not have what people want right now, but Ochain + Almace is by no means bad. Blocking prevents a good amount of status effects (not 100% and not all status effects but a good deal of the time) and pld also has many procing ws's. With a pld with both of these, you can have absolutely terrible support and often no support and still win.
It's amusing to watch an Ochain pld tank an ironclad and almost never get stunned or amnesia'ed.
My group uses a pld for most things and while it may not be as fast, our pld is just about immortal, plus he's got no intention of leveling nin or mnk.
While our setup is not optimal, we all get to play jobs we like.
[+]
Asura.Malekith said:
I thought the easiest way to take on the T2 VNM's was to use SMN with Ducal Guard. Figure 2-3 on the mob + other jobs assisting to proc red/grellow = win?
War + Whm + w/e you need to proc yellow is the easiest way.
Although I have no idea why you would want to proc red on the vnm... so any type of DD should be fine to replace war.
Bismarck.Altar said:
Asura.Malekith said:
I thought the easiest way to take on the T2 VNM's was to use SMN with Ducal Guard. Figure 2-3 on the mob + other jobs assisting to proc red/grellow = win?
War + Whm + w/e you need to proc yellow is the easiest way.
Although I have no idea why you would want to proc red on the vnm... so any type of DD should be fine to replace war.
Guessing they think red = color change? only reason I could see for getting red unless they want the atma and haven't gotten it yet.
I solo the titan one on thf all the time.... too bad I didn't need any of the seals
Bahamut.Dasva said:
I solo the titan one on thf all the time.... too bad I didn't need any of the seals
I know Titan's TP moves are blink-able was it just evasion setup with earth resist?
Bismarck.Zagen said:
Bahamut.Dasva said:
I solo the titan one on thf all the time.... too bad I didn't need any of the seals
I know Titan's TP moves are blink-able was it just evasion setup with earth resist?
As far as earth resist idk... the vast majority of the time it never even thought of using 2hr.
[+]
Ragnarok.Sekundes said:
Pld may not have what people want right now, but Ochain + Almace is by no means bad. Blocking prevents a good amount of status effects (not 100% and not all status effects but a good deal of the time) and pld also has many procing ws's. With a pld with both of these, you can have absolutely terrible support and often no support and still win. It's amusing to watch an Ochain pld tank an ironclad and almost never get stunned or amnesia'ed. My group uses a pld for most things and while it may not be as fast, our pld is just about immortal, plus he's got no intention of leveling nin or mnk. While our setup is not optimal, we all get to play jobs we like.
What about good tanking jobs?
I noticed this thread a bit late, but. About this..
"Converts Damage Taken" gear doesn't work like PDT. Ethereal, etc, doesn't reduce the damage you take at all. It just gives you back that percentage in mp. It also only works in whole numbers, and the remainder does not carry over. So, in order to get any MP back form damage taken while wearing Ethereal earring, you must take at least 33 damage in a single strike. Thus while blocking with Ochain(and no other convert gear) every 4 points of damage taken will yield 1 point of mp return.
While I realize that your stacking of PDT and blocked dmg reduction was based on assumptions about "converts" gear, I feel the need to add that PDT and shield block damage reduction do not stack directly. They are separate terms. One calculated first, then the other. Much like PDT gear and sentinel. While I don't know for certain, I suspect that blocks are calculated first, then PDT is applied.
Also, Creed cuirass' Damage mitigation is very likely simple Damage taken -%, and most likely will not break the PDT cap. I'll test it for certain after the server's are back up.
And in any case, since finishing my Ochain, I've fought very few mobs that can make me even bother with PDT gear. At least for melee hits. Swapping in for WS, may as well. I usually blood tank in DD gear now.
Bismarck.Kyaaadaa said:
So if I've done my math right, and I sure hope to god I have, PLD should be able to stack thus:
50% PDT from various pieces of gear. I have no idea if Atma's are useful (such as Atma of the Heavens) if your equipment hits the cap.
6% convert to MP (full time) from earring and Creed legs +1.
10% Damage mitigation from Creed Cuirass. I also do not know if the game counts this as part of the PDT set.
25% Damage convert via Ochain.
I don't have this setup currently, but everything I've researched thus far shows it should be possible. If it is, PLD is looking at 101% physical damage reduction when Ochain blocks, and 76% damage reduction when it doesn't. If a PLD with these pieces can show proof that it does or doesn't work, that would be awesome.
50% PDT from various pieces of gear. I have no idea if Atma's are useful (such as Atma of the Heavens) if your equipment hits the cap.
6% convert to MP (full time) from earring and Creed legs +1.
10% Damage mitigation from Creed Cuirass. I also do not know if the game counts this as part of the PDT set.
25% Damage convert via Ochain.
I don't have this setup currently, but everything I've researched thus far shows it should be possible. If it is, PLD is looking at 101% physical damage reduction when Ochain blocks, and 76% damage reduction when it doesn't. If a PLD with these pieces can show proof that it does or doesn't work, that would be awesome.
"Converts Damage Taken" gear doesn't work like PDT. Ethereal, etc, doesn't reduce the damage you take at all. It just gives you back that percentage in mp. It also only works in whole numbers, and the remainder does not carry over. So, in order to get any MP back form damage taken while wearing Ethereal earring, you must take at least 33 damage in a single strike. Thus while blocking with Ochain(and no other convert gear) every 4 points of damage taken will yield 1 point of mp return.
While I realize that your stacking of PDT and blocked dmg reduction was based on assumptions about "converts" gear, I feel the need to add that PDT and shield block damage reduction do not stack directly. They are separate terms. One calculated first, then the other. Much like PDT gear and sentinel. While I don't know for certain, I suspect that blocks are calculated first, then PDT is applied.
Also, Creed cuirass' Damage mitigation is very likely simple Damage taken -%, and most likely will not break the PDT cap. I'll test it for certain after the server's are back up.
And in any case, since finishing my Ochain, I've fought very few mobs that can make me even bother with PDT gear. At least for melee hits. Swapping in for WS, may as well. I usually blood tank in DD gear now.
[+]
Ragnarok.Martel said:
I noticed this thread a bit late, but. About this..
"Converts Damage Taken" gear doesn't work like PDT. Ethereal, etc, doesn't reduce the damage you take at all. It just gives you back that percentage in mp. It also only works in whole numbers, and the remainder does not carry over. So, in order to get any MP back form damage taken while wearing Ethereal earring, you must take at least 33 damage in a single strike. Thus while blocking with Ochain(and no other convert gear) every 4 points of damage taken will yield 1 point of mp return.
While I realize that your stacking of PDT and blocked dmg reduction was based on assumptions about "converts" gear, I feel the need to add that PDT and shield block damage reduction do not stack directly. They are separate terms. One calculated first, then the other. Much like PDT gear and sentinel. While I don't know for certain, I suspect that blocks are calculated first, then PDT is applied.
Also, Creed cuirass' Damage mitigation is very likely simple Damage taken -%, and most likely will not break the PDT cap. I'll test it for certain after the server's are back up.
And in any case, since finishing my Ochain, I've fought very few mobs that can make me even bother with PDT gear. At least for melee hits. Swapping in for WS, may as well. I usually blood tank in DD gear now.
Bismarck.Kyaaadaa said:
So if I've done my math right, and I sure hope to god I have, PLD should be able to stack thus:
50% PDT from various pieces of gear. I have no idea if Atma's are useful (such as Atma of the Heavens) if your equipment hits the cap.
6% convert to MP (full time) from earring and Creed legs +1.
10% Damage mitigation from Creed Cuirass. I also do not know if the game counts this as part of the PDT set.
25% Damage convert via Ochain.
I don't have this setup currently, but everything I've researched thus far shows it should be possible. If it is, PLD is looking at 101% physical damage reduction when Ochain blocks, and 76% damage reduction when it doesn't. If a PLD with these pieces can show proof that it does or doesn't work, that would be awesome.
50% PDT from various pieces of gear. I have no idea if Atma's are useful (such as Atma of the Heavens) if your equipment hits the cap.
6% convert to MP (full time) from earring and Creed legs +1.
10% Damage mitigation from Creed Cuirass. I also do not know if the game counts this as part of the PDT set.
25% Damage convert via Ochain.
I don't have this setup currently, but everything I've researched thus far shows it should be possible. If it is, PLD is looking at 101% physical damage reduction when Ochain blocks, and 76% damage reduction when it doesn't. If a PLD with these pieces can show proof that it does or doesn't work, that would be awesome.
"Converts Damage Taken" gear doesn't work like PDT. Ethereal, etc, doesn't reduce the damage you take at all. It just gives you back that percentage in mp. It also only works in whole numbers, and the remainder does not carry over. So, in order to get any MP back form damage taken while wearing Ethereal earring, you must take at least 33 damage in a single strike. Thus while blocking with Ochain(and no other convert gear) every 4 points of damage taken will yield 1 point of mp return.
While I realize that your stacking of PDT and blocked dmg reduction was based on assumptions about "converts" gear, I feel the need to add that PDT and shield block damage reduction do not stack directly. They are separate terms. One calculated first, then the other. Much like PDT gear and sentinel. While I don't know for certain, I suspect that blocks are calculated first, then PDT is applied.
Also, Creed cuirass' Damage mitigation is very likely simple Damage taken -%, and most likely will not break the PDT cap. I'll test it for certain after the server's are back up.
And in any case, since finishing my Ochain, I've fought very few mobs that can make me even bother with PDT gear. At least for melee hits. Swapping in for WS, may as well. I usually blood tank in DD gear now.
Brings up a question I was meaning to ask,which order is it calculated in when your shield does block.I looked it up when I started levelling PLD but now I cant remember and cant find it again.
Psh instead of wearing a full pdt set just use atma of the ducal gaurd and keep your hp low!
Also I wouldn't be suprised if creed cruise goes past the cap but is done seperately.
As far as which comes first shield or pdt it doesn't really matter. Outside of possibly rounding differently at each step it would come out the same. Gogo multiplication rules...
also his numbers don't make any sense out all. None of the things he listed together add up to 76% no matter what you do. Also is there numbers out on what base amount that size blocks or just how much it does?
Also I wouldn't be suprised if creed cruise goes past the cap but is done seperately.
As far as which comes first shield or pdt it doesn't really matter. Outside of possibly rounding differently at each step it would come out the same. Gogo multiplication rules...
also his numbers don't make any sense out all. None of the things he listed together add up to 76% no matter what you do. Also is there numbers out on what base amount that size blocks or just how much it does?
This shield is awesome, quicker and cheaper than an Aegis. Definitely would want both shields as a PLD, using Aegis against huge magic use mobs.
I think maybe if a PLD focus's on enmity+ when wearing this shield as the block rate is so high who needs any other stats when weilding this shield.
I think maybe if a PLD focus's on enmity+ when wearing this shield as the block rate is so high who needs any other stats when weilding this shield.
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Also I wouldn't be suprised if creed cruise goes past the cap but is done seperately.
Either way, we should be able to tell, testing with 1000 needles. We'll just get different numbers depending on which way it goes.
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Also is there numbers out on what base amount that size blocks or just how much it does?
Ye auld Shield testing.
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=5;mid=1180062662109938677
I don't know why that's not coming up as a link.. Oh, well. copy/paste.
I never did see any good testing on Tower shields, or Aegis' DMG reduction on block. I Did a test on Ochain's, but I think it's inaccurate. Too many hits for 1 dmg skewing things I think. Can't go below 1 dmg using a % based reduction without hitting 100% after all. Now if I could see the dmg before it got truncated... Need to go get a sample where I'm getting hit harder to get a more accurate test sample.
Asura.Kield said:
I think maybe if a PLD focus's on enmity+ when wearing this shield as the block rate is so high who needs any other stats when weilding this shield.
How about some Haste/ACC/ATK so we can deal enough damage to get the mob to actually look at us? Cause TPing in full enmity+ gear in not likely to cut it.
Edit:Consolidated double post.
[+]
Ragnarok.Martel said:
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Also I wouldn't be suprised if creed cruise goes past the cap but is done seperately.
Either way, we should be able to tell, testing with 1000 needles. We'll just get different numbers depending on which way it goes.
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Also is there numbers out on what base amount that size blocks or just how much it does?
Ye auld Shield testing.
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=5;mid=1180062662109938677
I don't know why that's not coming up as a link.. Oh, well. copy/paste.
I never did see any good testing on Tower shields, or Aegis' DMG reduction on block. I Did a test on Ochain's, but I think it's inaccurate. Too many hits for 1 dmg skewing things I think. Can't go below 1 dmg using a % based reduction without hitting 100% after all. Now if I could see the dmg before it got truncated... Need to go get a sample where I'm getting hit harder to get a more accurate test sample.
Asura.Kield said:
I think maybe if a PLD focus's on enmity+ when wearing this shield as the block rate is so high who needs any other stats when weilding this shield.
How about some Haste/ACC/ATK so we can deal enough damage to get the mob to actually look at us? Cause TPing in full enmity+ gear in not likely to cut it.
Edit:Consolidated double post.
I didn't ask if there was general shield testing. I asked for Ochain. And I've seen decent testing and base amounts + how much per def it adds for all others along time ago.
Well yeah, I thought Haste/Acc/Atk we're a standard. Meant the focus on VIT or Dmg-. If the block rate really is 90% then Dmg- might be on the verge of useless. With weilding Aegis, Vit and Dmg- would be great.
Asura.Kield said:
Well yeah, I thought Haste/Acc/Atk we're a standard. Meant the focus on VIT or Dmg-. If the block rate really is 90% then Dmg- might be on the verge of useless. With weilding Aegis, Vit and Dmg- would be great.
My bad. My eyes glazed over the "That" in "that shield size". I just saw shield size. I'm going to blame my lack of sleep. I'll post my testing after I retest and get a better sample. My results are varying weirdly between crit and non crit and I want a higher per hit dmg sample for greater accuracy. Other that that, I haven't seen any Ochain testing on DMG reduction.
I'm not quite sure what the point of this post is. Is that.. supposed to be difficult? A challenge? A fun idea? I can't really tell.
I have tanked Pantokrator's hundred fists several times. Its laughable, even pre-Ochain. Now his Chain Spell scares the hell outta me(when he's below 25% HP). Even with capped MDT... -Ga IV, TierV, splat. If the whm's are even a little slow..
Titan.Bomber said:
Tank Pantokrator's hundred fists hehehe ^_^
I'm not quite sure what the point of this post is. Is that.. supposed to be difficult? A challenge? A fun idea? I can't really tell.
I have tanked Pantokrator's hundred fists several times. Its laughable, even pre-Ochain. Now his Chain Spell scares the hell outta me(when he's below 25% HP). Even with capped MDT... -Ga IV, TierV, splat. If the whm's are even a little slow..
I Not useless. 0 dmg hits are pretty sexy. Just from a tp standpointI was gonna test melo's atma lusca's (occ. annul phy) and ulhuadshi's (occ annuls magic) but game got shut down Melo's alone has decent proc rate i have 2/5 PLD +2 the rest is +1 havent gone so hardcore on it cuz its a hobby job but as a Taru i rather use dornen boots and heroe's galea body and legs are the +2 pieces and gloves switch from I.R to creed+1
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Asura.Kield said:
Well yeah, I thought Haste/Acc/Atk we're a standard. Meant the focus on VIT or Dmg-. If the block rate really is 90% then Dmg- might be on the verge of useless. With weilding Aegis, Vit and Dmg- would be great.
Ragnarok.Martel said:
My bad. My eyes glazed over the "That" in "that shield size". I just saw shield size. I'm going to blame my lack of sleep. I'll post my testing after I retest and get a better sample. My results are varying weirdly between crit and non crit and I want a higher per hit dmg sample for greater accuracy. Other that that, I haven't seen any Ochain testing on DMG reduction.
I'm not quite sure what the point of this post is. Is that.. supposed to be difficult? A challenge? A fun idea? I can't really tell.
I have tanked Pantokrator's hundred fists several times. Its laughable, even pre-Ochain. Now his Chain Spell scares the hell outta me(when he's below 25% HP). Even with capped MDT... -Ga IV, TierV, splat. If the whm's are even a little slow..
Titan.Bomber said:
Tank Pantokrator's hundred fists hehehe ^_^
I'm not quite sure what the point of this post is. Is that.. supposed to be difficult? A challenge? A fun idea? I can't really tell.
I have tanked Pantokrator's hundred fists several times. Its laughable, even pre-Ochain. Now his Chain Spell scares the hell outta me(when he's below 25% HP). Even with capped MDT... -Ga IV, TierV, splat. If the whm's are even a little slow..
Titan.Bomber said:
I Not useless. 0 dmg hits are pretty sexy. Just from a tp standpointI was gonna test melo's atma lusca's (occ. annul phy) and ulhuadshi's (occ annuls magic) but game got shut down Melo's alone has decent proc rate i have 2/5 PLD +2 the rest is +1 havent gone so hardcore on it cuz its a hobby job but as a Taru i rather use dornen boots and heroe's galea body and legs are the +2 pieces and gloves switch from I.R to creed+1
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Asura.Kield said:
Well yeah, I thought Haste/Acc/Atk we're a standard. Meant the focus on VIT or Dmg-. If the block rate really is 90% then Dmg- might be on the verge of useless. With weilding Aegis, Vit and Dmg- would be great.
Tarudin ftw.
Titan.Bomber said:
Ragnarok.Martel said:
My bad. My eyes glazed over the "That" in "that shield size". I just saw shield size. I'm going to blame my lack of sleep. I'll post my testing after I retest and get a better sample. My results are varying weirdly between crit and non crit and I want a higher per hit dmg sample for greater accuracy. Other that that, I haven't seen any Ochain testing on DMG reduction.
I'm not quite sure what the point of this post is. Is that.. supposed to be difficult? A challenge? A fun idea? I can't really tell.
I have tanked Pantokrator's hundred fists several times. Its laughable, even pre-Ochain. Now his Chain Spell scares the hell outta me(when he's below 25% HP). Even with capped MDT... -Ga IV, TierV, splat. If the whm's are even a little slow..
Titan.Bomber said:
Tank Pantokrator's hundred fists hehehe ^_^
I'm not quite sure what the point of this post is. Is that.. supposed to be difficult? A challenge? A fun idea? I can't really tell.
I have tanked Pantokrator's hundred fists several times. Its laughable, even pre-Ochain. Now his Chain Spell scares the hell outta me(when he's below 25% HP). Even with capped MDT... -Ga IV, TierV, splat. If the whm's are even a little slow..
that campaign orc nm has like perma hundred fists lol
Asura.Kield said:
Titan.Bomber said:
I Not useless. 0 dmg hits are pretty sexy. Just from a tp standpointI was gonna test melo's atma lusca's (occ. annul phy) and ulhuadshi's (occ annuls magic) but game got shut down Melo's alone has decent proc rate i have 2/5 PLD +2 the rest is +1 havent gone so hardcore on it cuz its a hobby job but as a Taru i rather use dornen boots and heroe's galea body and legs are the +2 pieces and gloves switch from I.R to creed+1
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Asura.Kield said:
Well yeah, I thought Haste/Acc/Atk we're a standard. Meant the focus on VIT or Dmg-. If the block rate really is 90% then Dmg- might be on the verge of useless. With weilding Aegis, Vit and Dmg- would be great.
Tarudin ftw.
Ragnarok.Martel said:
Now his Chain Spell scares the hell outta me(when he's below 25% HP). Even with capped MDT... -Ga IV, TierV, splat. If the whm's are even a little slow..
Titan.Bomber said:
Asura.Kield said:
Titan.Bomber said:
I Not useless. 0 dmg hits are pretty sexy. Just from a tp standpointI was gonna test melo's atma lusca's (occ. annul phy) and ulhuadshi's (occ annuls magic) but game got shut down Melo's alone has decent proc rate i have 2/5 PLD +2 the rest is +1 havent gone so hardcore on it cuz its a hobby job but as a Taru i rather use dornen boots and heroe's galea body and legs are the +2 pieces and gloves switch from I.R to creed+1
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Asura.Kield said:
Well yeah, I thought Haste/Acc/Atk we're a standard. Meant the focus on VIT or Dmg-. If the block rate really is 90% then Dmg- might be on the verge of useless. With weilding Aegis, Vit and Dmg- would be great.
Tarudin ftw.
Bite their ankles!!! >:{!
I rarely have a COR around. And I haven't got around to finishing WotG mission. Just not alot on reason to. The earing could have some use but it doesn't seem like a must have for me. I'll get to it eventually.
Not that I'd considered using magic def atmas anyway. I felt I needed my DD atmas to keep up with the DDs. Not much point in the MDB atma if I don't have hate when it chain spells.
Not that I'd considered using magic def atmas anyway. I felt I needed my DD atmas to keep up with the DDs. Not much point in the MDB atma if I don't have hate when it chain spells.
Asura.Kield said:
Titan.Bomber said:
Asura.Kield said:
Titan.Bomber said:
I Not useless. 0 dmg hits are pretty sexy. Just from a tp standpointI was gonna test melo's atma lusca's (occ. annul phy) and ulhuadshi's (occ annuls magic) but game got shut down Melo's alone has decent proc rate i have 2/5 PLD +2 the rest is +1 havent gone so hardcore on it cuz its a hobby job but as a Taru i rather use dornen boots and heroe's galea body and legs are the +2 pieces and gloves switch from I.R to creed+1
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Asura.Kield said:
Well yeah, I thought Haste/Acc/Atk we're a standard. Meant the focus on VIT or Dmg-. If the block rate really is 90% then Dmg- might be on the verge of useless. With weilding Aegis, Vit and Dmg- would be great.
Tarudin ftw.
Bite their ankles!!! >:{!
Ragnarok.Martel said:
I rarely have a COR around. And I haven't got around to finishing WotG mission. Just not alot on reason to. The earing could have some use but it doesn't seem like a must have for me. I'll get to it eventually.
Not that I'd considered using magic def atmas anyway. I felt I needed my DD atmas to keep up with the DDs. Not much point in the MDB atma if I don't have hate when it chain spells.
Not that I'd considered using magic def atmas anyway. I felt I needed my DD atmas to keep up with the DDs. Not much point in the MDB atma if I don't have hate when it chain spells.
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