Soul Jump, And Spirit Jump

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Soul Jump, and Spirit Jump
 Phoenix.Mogue
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By Phoenix.Mogue 2010-09-27 13:45:45
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Ragnarok.Amador said:
Bahamut.Raenryong said:
OaT beats Gungnir if accuracy is not used effectively. Mythic Polearm is hard to quantify on paper.
Gungnir DRG's have accuracy issues?

If you would read instead of continuing with the diarrhea of the mouth, he is implying that no one should be having accuracy issues on anything that matters anymore. Not expecting you to start reading now, though, so it's cool.

Ragnarok.Amador said:
Now when you say OAT beats Gungnir, would that imply that you're specifically talking about 100D Gungnir? If so I'll agree completely.
When he says OAT beats Gungnir, he is implying that he is capable of comparing the two, one against another, in a quantitative manner. As in math. Since you can't even grasp reading we probably shouldn't hold out too much hope here.

Ragnarok.Amador said:
However, in my mind you're talking about a 38 Damage Difference, not including fSTR calculations.

Furthermore, the Quint Spear was a joke. I found it pretty funny personally.

As far as the proc rate for dmg modx, well, 5% or not, it seems to proc fairly often. I don't have an exact % for it, but it does do a ton of damage over time. It can proc on jumps, as well as DA's.
All excellent examples of why I expect neither your reading nor your math to improve in future posts.
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 Bahamut.Aiyana
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By Bahamut.Aiyana 2010-09-27 14:11:51
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Proc rate is 5%.

>How do you know?

Testing.

>Well I think it procs more than that.

Did you test it?

>(Insert eyeballing nonsense here)

/facepalm, /headdesk.


Anyway, why does one person always have to rally against the majority without stopping to think WHY the majority think they way they do?
Give it a chance. You might learn something and not look like such an imbecile.
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 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-09-27 14:55:56
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Quote:
That's one awesome brutal earring. Anyone here decide to TP withuot their Brutal Earring on? Just curious :)

Say you do 100 damage per hit. Over 100 swings, you will have dealt 10000 damage. Furthermore, 5 of those swings will have dealt 250 damage (2.5x). We therefore add 150 * 5 damage, or 750. 750/10000 = 7.5% increase in DoT damage.

Brutal Earring grants 5% DA. That means your 100 swings will become 105 swings, or a 5% increase in damage - note that these extra swings ALSO grant extra TP, so you have a 5% increase in WS frequency as well.

Which is better - 5% more WSs or 2.5% more DoT damage? Not to mention the StoreTP+1 for xhit purposes.

Relic vs OaT

Gungnir 126D 492Delay Average hits/round 1.05
OaT 86D 507Delay Average hits/round 1.45

Assume: fSTR10 WSC50 (not unreasonable in Abyssea areas at all, in fact depending on your atma/gear this could be a gross underestimate - but lowballing it will give more advantage to Gungnir, and I'm underestimating WS fstr).

TP Phase:

Gungnir has 136/96 = 141.7% the DMG-based DoT of OaT.
Gungnir attacks 1/(492/507) = 103% the rate of attack of OaT by delay.
Gungnir has 107.5% DoT damage due to its proc.
Gungnir attacks 72.4% as much as OaT due to the lowered frequency.
Net: 113.6% DoT damage compared to OaT.

WS Phase:

Gungnir has 127.4% the DMG-based WS damage of OaT.
Gungnir has 103% the WS frequency of OaT by delay.
Gungnir has 72.4% the WS frequency of OaT by frequency.
Net: 95% WS damage compared to OaT.

Not accounted for in this calculation:

WS delay, Angon, Def Down on Gungnir, Spirit Jump/Soul Jump's enhanced TP returns.

Things to note: Powerful atma/abyssea buffs favour OaT a LOT more than Gungnir unless you are adding a large amount of DA. Basically, max Gungnir is better unless you are superbuffed, but not by much... certainly OaT is not a toy.

EDIT: Suppose I should also make the note before someone comments that obviously if you are using the accuracy on Gungnir in a constructive matter, it's going to pull ahead.

I was expecting OaT to win as you may tell from a previous post, but was unaware of how much they buffed Gungnir relatively last patch. The difference is still not that huge between them though (~a Brutal Earring).
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 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-09-27 15:15:12
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So, basically:

567695167356746956268 times more work for an additional brutal earring?

Exaggerated number is exaggerated.
 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-09-27 15:17:50
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Pretty much. Noting that 50 WSC is pretty damn low for Abyssea (~120-130STR) as is 10fSTR (40 STR above target VIT); if you put in higher numbers (since some Atmas can give 50+), Gungnir's advantage begins to fall away very quickly.
 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-09-27 15:20:32
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That and you haven't accounted for Jumps yet, which I'm fairly sure will work in Corsesca's sdvantage.
 Ragnarok.Amador
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By Ragnarok.Amador 2010-09-27 16:01:51
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Bahamut.Raenryong said:
Quote:
That's one awesome brutal earring. Anyone here decide to TP withuot their Brutal Earring on? Just curious :)
Say you do 100 damage per hit. Over 100 swings, you will have dealt 10000 damage. Furthermore, 5 of those swings will have dealt 250 damage (2.5x). We therefore add 150 * 5 damage, or 750. 750/10000 = 7.5% increase in DoT damage. Brutal Earring grants 5% DA. That means your 100 swings will become 105 swings, or a 5% increase in damage - note that these extra swings ALSO grant extra TP, so you have a 5% increase in WS frequency as well. Which is better - 5% more WSs or 2.5% more DoT damage? Not to mention the StoreTP+1 for xhit purposes. Relic vs OaT Gungnir 126D 492Delay Average hits/round 1.05 OaT 86D 507Delay Average hits/round 1.45 Assume: fSTR10 WSC50 (not unreasonable in Abyssea areas at all, in fact depending on your atma/gear this could be a gross underestimate - but lowballing it will give more advantage to Gungnir, and I'm underestimating WS fstr). TP Phase: Gungnir has 136/96 = 141.7% the DMG-based DoT of OaT. Gungnir attacks 1/(492/507) = 103% the rate of attack of OaT by delay. Gungnir has 107.5% DoT damage due to its proc. Gungnir attacks 72.4% as much as OaT due to the lowered frequency. Net: 113.6% DoT damage compared to OaT. WS Phase: Gungnir has 127.4% the DMG-based WS damage of OaT. Gungnir has 103% the WS frequency of OaT by delay. Gungnir has 72.4% the WS frequency of OaT by frequency. Net: 95% WS damage compared to OaT. Not accounted for in this calculation: WS delay, Angon, Def Down on Gungnir, Spirit Jump/Soul Jump's enhanced TP returns. Things to note: Powerful atma/abyssea buffs favour OaT a LOT more than Gungnir unless you are adding a large amount of DA. Basically, max Gungnir is better unless you are superbuffed, but not by much... certainly OaT is not a toy. EDIT: Suppose I should also make the note before someone comments that obviously if you are using the accuracy on Gungnir in a constructive matter, it's going to pull ahead. I was expecting OaT to win as you may tell from a previous post, but was unaware of how much they buffed Gungnir relatively last patch. The difference is still not that huge between them though (~a Brutal Earring).

Now that is indeed respectable.

Am I mad? no way. Break time, enjoying a read here and there. It's enjoyable.

Breaks over ;D see ya'll






 Ragnarok.Kyoshin
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By Ragnarok.Kyoshin 2010-09-27 19:42:54
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Caitsith.Linear said:
That and you haven't accounted for Jumps yet, which I'm fairly sure will work in Corsesca's sdvantage.

With multiple hits counting as full extra TP, definitely.
 Ragnarok.Amador
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By Ragnarok.Amador 2010-10-01 13:31:42
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Hey just checking in,

Wouldn't the fSTR cap on Corseca +1 mean that the extra STR wouldn't really do anything but add additional attack except of course on WS?

Would that not imply that added STR would benefit the higher damage weapon more due to that?

Thanks
 Alexander.Almostunsane
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By Alexander.Almostunsane 2010-10-03 04:04:52
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Wait wait wait wait wait...

Only skimming this topic on-and-off, but OAT can proc on Jumps? Does that include Spirit/Soul, and would that work with OA2~3 too...?

I know OA2~3's damage is a bit too low to realistically beat the DMG+ and OAT path, but I don't do VNM so yeah.

Plus if Occasionally Attacks 3 times proc'd on Spirit or Soul that'd be damn near a free WS for Spirit, and just a free WS period for Soul :x
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [51 days between previous and next post]
 Ragnarok.Gunit
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By Ragnarok.Gunit 2010-11-23 02:47:51
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This was a Good read,I liked the comments about relic ODD is the same as a brutal earring, and just to say rates are more like 3%.
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