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Religion: If you don't believe in it why does it bother you?
Remora.Dubont
Server: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 629
By Remora.Dubont 2010-03-19 23:05:11
I'm not going to get into this b/c imo, Religion is the root of all evil; however, spiritual belief in a higher power is needed for over 90% of the Earth's population to NOT go out and shoot themselves in the head.
That being said, I think Gandhi said it best with "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
/endthread
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Carbuncle.Sterling
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By Carbuncle.Sterling 2010-03-19 23:06:59
I think that saying all religious people are murderous in nature is just as close minded as saying that homosexuality is wrong.
Gilgamesh.Andras
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By Gilgamesh.Andras 2010-03-19 23:07:59
Carbuncle.Sterling said: I think that saying all religious people are murderous in nature is just as close minded as saying that homosexuality is wrong.
and saying that religion is all nonsense
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Ragnarok.Psyence
Server: Ragnarok
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By Ragnarok.Psyence 2010-03-19 23:10:46
Asura.Israfel said: I find it hilarious that we don't get Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroastrian etc people in here QQing about how they're so hard-done by and suffering because someone mentioned God or 'a' God. Just the occasional butthurt Atheist that doesn't know how to live and let live...
I like to try and reason. I do my best to state my opinion clearly and invite discussion and argument. Most people who can't argue properly will tell you to shut up or accuse you of wasting your time, which is very ironic. Contrarily to a believer, I do not think my opinion is absolute. If your definition of intelligence is shutting up and stopping the debate, then I wish you a very long and silent life... whatever makes you happy, really :)
If your definition or happiness is people like me shutting up, we will eventually talk less, when we feel equally represented in society and then you'll get to be happier because there will be less noise. Don't count on it happening soon though.
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By Asura.Israfel 2010-03-19 23:13:46
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Asura.Israfel said: I find it hilarious that we don't get Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroastrian etc people in here QQing about how they're so hard-done by and suffering because someone mentioned God or 'a' God. Just the occasional butthurt Atheist that doesn't know how to live and let live...
I like to try and reason. I do my best to state my opinion clearly and invite discussion and argument. Most people who can't argue properly will tell you to shut up or accuse you of wasting your time, which is very ironic. Contrarily to a believer, I do not think my opinion is absolute. If your definition of intelligence is shutting up and stopping the debate, then I wish you a very long and silent life... whatever makes you happy, really :)
If your definition or happiness is people like me shutting up, we will eventually talk less, when we feel equally represented in society and then you'll get to be happier because there will be less noise. Don't count on it happening soon though. Not full of yourself at all are you~?
Server: Garuda
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Posts: 464
By Garuda.Feifongwong 2010-03-19 23:14:10
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Asura.Israfel said: I find it hilarious that we don't get Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroastrian etc people in here QQing about how they're so hard-done by and suffering because someone mentioned God or 'a' God. Just the occasional butthurt Atheist that doesn't know how to live and let live...
I like to try and reason. I do my best to state my opinion clearly and invite discussion and argument. Most people who can't argue properly will tell you to shut up or accuse you of wasting your time, which is very ironic. Contrarily to a believer, I do not think my opinion is absolute. If your definition of intelligence is shutting up and stopping the debate, then I wish you a very long and silent life... whatever makes you happy, really :)
If your definition or happiness is people like me shutting up, we will eventually talk less, when we feel equally represented in society and then you'll get to be happier because there will be less noise. Don't count on it happening soon though.
No one told you to shut up, but they are saying don't push your belief on others.
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
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Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-03-19 23:15:39
All I want to know is do people really believe the stories in the bible? Like do they take it as fact? Or do they realize it's just a collection of stories used to help guide human behavior over the years?
Gilgamesh.Andras
Server: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 705
By Gilgamesh.Andras 2010-03-19 23:15:51
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Asura.Israfel said: I find it hilarious that we don't get Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroastrian etc people in here QQing about how they're so hard-done by and suffering because someone mentioned God or 'a' God. Just the occasional butthurt Atheist that doesn't know how to live and let live...
I like to try and reason. I do my best to state my opinion clearly and invite discussion and argument. Most people who can't argue properly will tell you to shut up or accuse you of wasting your time, which is very ironic. Contrarily to a believer, I do not think my opinion is absolute. If your definition of intelligence is shutting up and stopping the debate, then I wish you a very long and silent life... whatever makes you happy, really :)
If your definition or happiness is people like me shutting up, we will eventually talk less, when we feel equally represented in society and then you'll get to be happier because there will be less noise. Don't count on it happening soon though.
Honestly, you just ranted, you have no REAL reasoning...
You're just a butthurt atheist who felt like you needed to rant about something that wont affect anyone in anyway except start a thread that will eventually end up in the flame core
Ragnarok.Psyence
Server: Ragnarok
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Posts: 471
By Ragnarok.Psyence 2010-03-19 23:16:13
Remora.Dubont said: spiritual belief in a higher power is needed for over 90% of the Earth's population to NOT go out and shoot themselves in the head.
So basically... if what you say is true, religion is largely preventing natural selection from happening... that explains a lot... it's like a revelation... lol not really sure if I should be laughing but I kinda am... a nervous laugh, you know
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Gilgamesh.Andras
Server: Gilgamesh
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By Gilgamesh.Andras 2010-03-19 23:16:39
Leviathan.Chaosx said: All I want to know is do people really believe the stories in the bible? Like do they take it as fact? Or do they realize it's just a collection of stories used to help guide human behavior over the years?
Honestly, i think its people in the past who dont know how to describe things clearly
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Gilgamesh.Aerokii
Server: Gilgamesh
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Posts: 110
By Gilgamesh.Aerokii 2010-03-19 23:17:08
Leviathan.Chaosx said: All I want to know is do people really believe the stories in the bible? Like do they take it as fact? Or do they realize it's just a collection of stories used to help guide human behavior over the years?
Eh, it goes both ways. Some people believe it word for word, some people believe only in the message... there's an incredibly wide range of how people choose to be Christian out there.
Unfortunately, it's usually the loud minority that makes the rest of us look like jerks.
Gilgamesh.Andras
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By Gilgamesh.Andras 2010-03-19 23:17:28
Suicide=Natural Selection?
Ragnarok.Psyence
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By Ragnarok.Psyence 2010-03-19 23:18:55
Gilgamesh.Andras said: that will eventually end up in the flame core
I won't be posting at that point, I promise. My apologies in advance for making people mad.
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Ragnarok.Psyence
Server: Ragnarok
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By Ragnarok.Psyence 2010-03-19 23:19:39
Gilgamesh.Andras said: Suicide=Natural Selection?
well... i'm still skeptical about that one
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Server: Odin
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2010-03-19 23:20:56
Just as a minor point, Atheism is as much a religion as Islam or Christianity. They're just as sure there is no god, as the aforementioned religions are sure their god is the one one true god. Atheists are up their own *** just as much nowadays cause "Omg it's edgy and cool".
I forgot the name of the documentary, but it's got Ben Stein in it, and it's about Evolution Versus intelligent design situation. Not about the beliefs of each, but how they've created what can only be described as an Academic war, and it's a perfect example of how overzealous atheists have become. Not that I agree with intelligent design or anything, but right or wrong, it's just an interesting perspective to be shown.
Gilgamesh.Andras
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Posts: 705
By Gilgamesh.Andras 2010-03-19 23:21:26
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Gilgamesh.Andras said: that will eventually end up in the flame core
I won't be posting at that point, I promise. My apologies in advance for making people mad.
oh just stfu
Wtf is an apology?
What ur gonna get caught drunk driving and tell the judge "i'm sorry"
The deed is done
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
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Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-03-19 23:21:36
Gilgamesh.Aerokii said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: All I want to know is do people really believe the stories in the bible? Like do they take it as fact? Or do they realize it's just a collection of stories used to help guide human behavior over the years?
Eh, it goes both ways. Some people believe it word for word, some people believe only in the message... there's an incredibly wide range of how people choose to be Christian out there.
Unfortunately, it's usually the loud minority that makes the rest of us look like jerks. Like televangelists, lol!
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Ragnarok.Psyence
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By Ragnarok.Psyence 2010-03-19 23:21:58
Gilgamesh.Aerokii said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: All I want to know is do people really believe the stories in the bible? Like do they take it as fact? Or do they realize it's just a collection of stories used to help guide human behavior over the years?
Eh, it goes both ways. Some people believe it word for word, some people believe only in the message... there's an incredibly wide range of how people choose to be Christian out there.
Unfortunately, it's usually the loud minority that makes the rest of us look like jerks.
And the fact you associate with them justifies their very existence. Same as the billion moderate Muslims whose silence (or lack of action) justify the killings done in the name of Islam even if they're peaceful by not resigning and protesting. if it was a political party, you'd resign. but a religion, you stay
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Gilgamesh.Andras
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By Gilgamesh.Andras 2010-03-19 23:22:53
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Gilgamesh.Aerokii said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: All I want to know is do people really believe the stories in the bible? Like do they take it as fact? Or do they realize it's just a collection of stories used to help guide human behavior over the years?
Eh, it goes both ways. Some people believe it word for word, some people believe only in the message... there's an incredibly wide range of how people choose to be Christian out there.
Unfortunately, it's usually the loud minority that makes the rest of us look like jerks.
And the fact you associate with them justifies their very existence. Same as the billion moderate Muslims justify the killings even if they're peaceful by not resigning and protesting. if it was a political party, you'd resign. but a religion, you stay
People have their beliefs, u have ur non beliefs, so stfu
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By Asura.Israfel 2010-03-19 23:22:54
Leviathan.Chaosx said: All I want to know is do people really believe the stories in the bible? Like do they take it as fact? Or do they realize it's just a collection of stories used to help guide human behavior over the years? I see it as a hints & tips kind of thing :P If you try to look at it too literally, I'll admit that it's kinda out-dated.
As a Christian I can say:
I am not against homosexuality, regardless of what the Bible says.
I am not against other religions, I won't force my beliefs on others or start screaming because someone mentioned Mohammed, Buddah or Vishnu in my presence. Y'all are absolutely welcome to believe what you like as long as you're not harming another person in the process.
It's like Aesop's Fables, each story had a moral at the end. Much like Jesus telling the story of the Good Samaritan etc. Most of Jesus' stories in the new Testament were just that -- Fables, and he used the morals to describe clearly to people what would be a good and kind way to live. These fables are not so outdated hehe, never once in the bible did I see Jesus write: "Well that roman Man and that Roman man lay together and their heads exploded"
Bahamut.Phage
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By Bahamut.Phage 2010-03-19 23:23:29
I honestly don't see the point in trying to shove your beliefs down another persons throat. Just causes fights and does nothing for anyone. The way I see it, some one tries to do it, say no thanks and walk away. Don't believe it, then just ignore it and let people believe what they want to believe.
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Gilgamesh.Aerokii
Server: Gilgamesh
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By Gilgamesh.Aerokii 2010-03-19 23:24:30
Ragnarok.Psyence said: Gilgamesh.Aerokii said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: All I want to know is do people really believe the stories in the bible? Like do they take it as fact? Or do they realize it's just a collection of stories used to help guide human behavior over the years?
Eh, it goes both ways. Some people believe it word for word, some people believe only in the message... there's an incredibly wide range of how people choose to be Christian out there.
Unfortunately, it's usually the loud minority that makes the rest of us look like jerks.
And the fact you associate with them justifies their very existence. Same as the billion moderate Muslims justify the killings even if they're peaceful by not resigning and protesting. if it was a political party, you'd resign. but a religion, you stay
...Just so we're clear, what you're asking me to do is stop being a Christian just because I disagree with what some of the other Christians are doing? That's... not really how it works. I still believe in God and Jesus and whatnot (even if I don't believe in ALL the old stories), I just think other people within my religion are wrong about how they're going about it. And I'm vocal about this whenever I see it occur.
Gilgamesh.Aerokii
Server: Gilgamesh
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By Gilgamesh.Aerokii 2010-03-19 23:25:15
Asura.Israfel said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: All I want to know is do people really believe the stories in the bible? Like do they take it as fact? Or do they realize it's just a collection of stories used to help guide human behavior over the years? I see it as a hints & tips kind of thing :P If you try to look at it too literally, I'll admit that it's kinda out-dated.
As a Christian I can say:
I am not against homosexuality, regardless of what the Bible says.
I am not against other religions, I won't force my beliefs on others or start screaming because someone mentioned Mohammed, Buddah or Vishnu in my presence. Y'all are absolutely welcome to believe what you like as long as you're not harming another person in the process.
It's like Aesop's Fables, each story had a moral at the end. Much like Jesus telling the story of the Good Samaritan etc. Most of Jesus' stories in the new Testament were just that -- Fables, and he used the morals to describe clearly to people what would be a good and kind way to live. These fables are not so outdated hehe, never once in the bible did I see Jesus write: "Well that roman Man and that Roman man lay together and their heads exploded"
Your thoughts and ideas intrigue me, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
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By Asura.Karianna 2010-03-19 23:25:45
Odin.Zicdeh said:
I forgot the name of the documentary, but it's got Ben Stein in it, and it's about Evolution Versus intelligent design situation. Not about the beliefs of each, but how they've created what can only be described as an Academic war, and it's a perfect example of how overzealous atheists have become. Not that I agree with intelligent design or anything, but right or wrong, it's just an interesting perspective to be shown.
Expelled is the name. :) And this whole thread is pointless. I'm tired of both atheists and theists complaining about each other. Both sides can be obnoxious by shoving their opinions in each others' faces, but both sides are also capable of just sharing their beliefs with others. There's nothing wrong with the latter, and if anyone thinks there is, they need to accept the fact that not everyone agrees with them. /rant over.
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By Asura.Israfel 2010-03-19 23:26:23
Gilgamesh.Aerokii said: Your thoughts and ideas intrigue me, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
I do not have a newsletter XD haha, but if you're ever up for a chit-chat feel free to drop me a line ^0^ /highfive
Ragnarok.Psyence
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By Ragnarok.Psyence 2010-03-19 23:27:00
Leviathan.Chaosx said: As a Christian I can say:
I am not against homosexuality, regardless of what the Bible says.
I am not against other religions, I won't force my beliefs on others
The bible speaks clearly against homosexuality. And you're a christian? How do you pick which parts of the bible you follow and which ones you don't? What's the purpose of a holy book if you can decide on it's pertinence? You could believe in God and not be part of a religion. That would already make a little more sense to me. Because organized religions are the threat, not people like you who can actually have values of their own. If you didn't have faith, let me bet your values would be the same.
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Gilgamesh.Andras
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By Gilgamesh.Andras 2010-03-19 23:28:13
Can't we all just say stfu and get along?
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By Asura.Karianna 2010-03-19 23:28:32
Gilgamesh.Andras said: Can't we all just say stfu and get along?
stfu
Gilgamesh.Andras
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By Gilgamesh.Andras 2010-03-19 23:29:05
Asura.Karianna said: Gilgamesh.Andras said: Can't we all just say stfu and get along?
stfu
THAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANK YOU
Because it affects my life. That's the reason it bothers me. I wish for the demise of several organizations that I feel are destructive to me, my family, my friends and human evolution in general. Almost all countries in the world are ruled by religious people who, more than often, base their decisions on outdated beliefs rather than secular moral standards such as basic human rights, global awareness, tolerance towards difference and a genuine pursuit of peace.
That, my friend, is anything but reassuring.
Rationalists, those who chose, out of simple logic, not to believe in something supernatural, need to state their opinion, proudly and coherently. They need to have a place in society and politics, to be heard and to at least have a word on what the future's going to look like. Something as serious as the occupation of Iraq (close to 100000 have died in it) could probably have been avoided. If it wasn't for the fact that so many US voters based their vote on Bush's claim to have strong religious beliefs, rather than nonviolent ideologies, less people would be dead today.
Beliefs keep us from evolving because of what they are: Suppositions that were turned into artificial facts by irrational, although well intentioned people. The scientific approach goes in contradiction with the religious approach. I will show you that I have a baseball to prove that I own one. Instead, a religious person will dare you to prove that he doesn't have a baseball and your failing to demonstrate that he doesn't own one will make him feel justified.
Doubt, the very basis of knowledge: Doubt is the only way to keep our mind from falling into what I like to describe as "lazy mode". Doubt requires constant re-questioning of our assumptions and becomes harder as we grow old. We have to constantly remind ourselves that what we think we know... might be wrong.
Religions fundamentally discourage questioning; even when they pretend to do, they do it in a hypocritical way that discourages questioning even the relevance of believing. Oppositely, Science has, over the centuries, been re-evaluated from scratch, in the noble attempt to find some provable truths. Small truths, yes, but significant ones. The first scientists obviously believed in God; now, most don't.
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