Most Romantic Thing You Have Ever Done Or Had Done To You

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Most Romantic thing you have ever done or had done to you
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 Bismarck.Maxse
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By Bismarck.Maxse 2009-12-26 00:05:55
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hey now im 26!

ps fart jokes rule
 Ifrit.Hitoseijuro
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By Ifrit.Hitoseijuro 2009-12-26 02:11:52
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Well where to begin, I dont consider it anything ive done romantic vs what others have posted, some of those things are very original and creative. I dont think Im very creative in the romance department sadly ;;. But heres my story, which is currently still going...(inc long story)

I met my tora online, on ffxi a couple of years ago. It started out as friends. We would gather together and do a few weapon latents and during that time, we talk about things, in general it seemed we had a lot in common. She seemed very knowledge~able aswell which probably attracted me to her(not in that way -yet). So id engage more conversations with her b/c for me, an intellectual, if not a good conversation with someone is very enjoyable. She had a mean spark to her lol I think I liked that aswell. And little by little I was falling for her, sending her /tells goodnight, etc. I had a little thing with her, that Id always send her a /tell with /Poke. I dont know, it was just something we started doing. Just randomly, during the day we'd send eachother pokes every so often. At this time, Toraness(Megan) was with someone, I had not known at the begining, but when I did find out, I always wished it went right, but apparantly it started going bad. After some time, I hadnt heard much about that relationship, so I figured it was over, when I asked Megan, if shed have a relationship with me, it seemed like a yes, but she it turned into a No very quickly. She wanted to try to patch things up with who she was with. I was crushed to tell you the truth, I felt like I was lead on, none the less I did my best to be around her whenever I could.

Few weeks later, she ended her relationship. And after some time had passed I asked her again, if shed be with me. Shot down again. Megan lived in Australia, and I lived in California. We were worlds apart and most long distance relationships never worked and in this case, it was longer than it should of been. I was too stubborn and sadly inlove with her now, to care. I went from logical/rational state to reverse and rejected any reason she had b/c in my heart I knew I could over come those obsticles she gave me. Sadly she remained firm in her decision. I still remained with her though hanging out with her when ever I could. I changed my work shifts, to night. That way I came home, and I could log right on and keep playing til the morning around 7-9 am when she went to sleep. from there on, Id do my best to sleep w/e hours I could during the day and wake up in the after noon to go to work. A few months passed, and she met someone. I was heart broken, but I thought this was what made her happy so I had no choice but to be happy for her. And for me, it was best to move on.

I moved on, met someone, I was extremely happy with this woman, and she was too with me, I think we both had come from a bad experience with other ppl. The months I had with this woman were very good for me, but doomed to fail, b/c I still had Megan in my head and it seemed that would lead to this relationships downfall. She had to move from Japan to Brazil due to her seperation. And at the time I didnt want to do much with her b/c it felt very wrong since she was still tech married. For her though, it was over years ago, and now the only thing that was needed was to have it in writting. For her, I made her very happy, appreciated, and a real woman, and that was enough for her. So when she moved, she had to restart her life again, but alone, and while doing this she might be out of contact with me for some time. At this time Megan started having probs with the guy she was with. I spent time cheering her up, which I think was a mistake b/c I fell for her again from all the good times we had. It was good being able to talk to her again on a frequent basis. I didnt do anything, I didnt act on it. I hope it was just those fond feelings ppl feel when they hang around someone they once liked(memories etc, idc if its in a game, ppl are still ppl outside those chars). Once chris was able to talk to me again after getting work and getting her place set up, it became a nightmare, b/c Megan wanted to hog up my time aswell, and chris didnt want her around all the time, and vice versa. Megan didnt say it outloud, but she spelt it clear with her actions and little comments. And at this time chris just freaked out, and changed, calling me every 5 mins, etc saying she hoped she didnt lose me etc. She was smothering me extremely and started to drift away from her at this point. I ended what we had and I told her that she was becoming obsessive and that it could be my fault and I need to clear my head b/c I dont want her acting like this when she doesnt have to. Shes an extremely beautiful woman she shouldnt have to act like a 16 year old first time in love kinda thing.

I spent a few weeks alone, december came, and megan seemed alone, I talked with her for a bit that month. And I sent her a present b/c she didnt have anyone at the time, so I wanted to make her feel special. I sent her favorite perfume. I had the guys at UPS smuggle that in, apparantly you cant sent perfume over seas, but I got it done. She loved it. We spent the rest of the weeks hanging out again doing stuff ingame, chatting hours and hours on MSN. I had it programed in my phone some time back to have msn. Megan always woke up to say good morning to me, and so had I since october~ish. Jan came by and it looked very good, so I rang her up and we talked for hours and hours, she said this must be costing you a fortune, and I told her, she was worth it,and I asked her again, to be mine, and would you know it, third time is not the charm, DECLINED again. I still lived too far, and men always broke her heart. I was broken again, my soul was crushed, I think I might of cried inside. She tossed in my face, how could I love her, after just getting over some other girl not so long ago, but I never told her atleast at that time, that I left that other woman b/c of her, b/c somewhere along the line, I still loved megan and I couldnt go on anymore in that relationship. Sadly she said to stop asking, because she would never be with me. I said no, and Id never stop. There was a silence, she said she was sorry, and said it was getting late, and she said good night, and hung up.

Chris talked to me a few days afterwards apologizing for how she had acted a few months back and that she had changed and if I wouldnt mind, to hang out and see. I agreed with no agreements to anything else but just hanging out. She was quite different and very relaxed. I liked it, it was like she was when we first started talking. Megan again seeing that we were hanging around didnt like it at all. Chris wanted to know if i wanted to come down to brazil with her. It was quite a shock. It had only been probably a month since I got my heart broken from megan again, and this was pretty fast. Not only that but I didnt think chris and I were doing anything that would spell out relationship. I told chris that I couldnt go, after sometime of thinking it through. She had changed and it was all good, but for me, my heart couldnt be moved any longer, it had one final direction from here on out, and it was Megan. I told her she was an extremely beautiful woman and that it was not her, and that this was probably long decided by my heart long before I finally realized it. I had made my choice, that regardless of the outcome, I would continue chasing this woman(non stalker like >.>) until she would say yes. I would travel to the ends of this world to be with her no matter what obstacle jumped in my way, it wasnt going to stop me.

Valentines day came, and it was Megans birthday that day aswell, due to her history, she hated her birthday and spent it alone, I sent her a diamond bracelet b/c to me she was the most important person in my life and that day marked an important day for me. I did the best I could with my body, staying up every single day, Id come home 10-11pm, and stay up all night til 7-10am in the morning talking to her, and then wake up 2-3pm to run to work. Sometimes I had to go in at 7am, so I had to just say good night to her, and go to work straight there, and then get home, and being up when she got up, so I could spend the rest of the day with her, hoping to keep myself awake til she went to bed. Somewhere along the lines I asked her, if we were together, because it sure seemed like it. And she said...........yes. I think I fell out of my chair when I heard this. I was extremely overcome with happiness. It was a long distance relationship, I did w/e I could to make it as real as I could. I would wake up early and text her that I made her pancakes for breakfast and send her kisses. Call me whatever you like, but for me, I tried to live whatever happiness I could. And that was my happiness. It wasnt the best , but in May, I proposed to megan. I told her I didnt know where we could take this, I dont know what would be the future, but I wanted her always in my future, and I would do w/e it took to be in it and one day, within touching reach. I wanted to make her happy like no one else could, I wake up to her, and go to sleep to her, Ive never spent this much time with anyone. I could never live a day w/o talking to her(and it is true never have we stopped). That if she could do me the honor of marrying me and being my wife, Id do the best to make her happy. She said yes. Since that day, weve been inseperateable, and I have done everything I can to be with her 24/7 when shes not asleep. The biggest question has always been, what are you going to do now? Shes over there, you are over here, so I made up my mind to give up everything I had here, and go off to her to be with her in Australia. Its a ballsy move and its an all or nothing gamble. 15th of August I left America for Australia, the embassy only granted me a 1 year visa. Since I have not met Megan irl, like physically, cam/picts etc do not count, I can not apply for a marriage visa yet. Im hoping now that Im here living with her, I can beg the ministry to let me stay and approve my next visa for marriage. If not.......by june/july they will ship my butt back to America. Sadly I have nothing there now, no job or home, only family to shack up with if it comes to that. All I can do now is pray that they pass my next visa, because now that I have physically been with Megan, it would kill me if I were to be taken away from her. Right now, in this life I am living a fantasy some ppl might of dream'd up, lets hope dreams really do come true.......
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 Fairy.Darkei
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By Fairy.Darkei 2009-12-26 02:25:59
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Wall text! O_O

resume plis?

j/k I take time for read this
 Cerberus.Maryanne
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By Cerberus.Maryanne 2009-12-26 03:03:07
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Personally, I'm not very good at romantic gestures. I also tend to make it very difficult to do romantic things for me since I can be such a stony ***. I don't like large, overplayed romantic situations. Rings in champagne glasses, rooms filled with flowers, stuff like that. Not to say that it isn't wonderful for some people - but it just isn't for me. I'd be much happier if someone proposed to me with a ring around the neck of a beer bottle or something. That would be memorable.

To me, the little things mean the most. I love it when my boyfriend is unconsciously wonderful. The first time I met him IRL he brought me one of his sweatshirts because he knew I was always so cold. He took me for a walk in the forest in the snow the day before Christmas eve. He holds my hand around his family. He even remembered my favorite book and bought me one for Christmas pertaining to it. We've only been together a month, but he's made me happier than I think I ever have been.

The following story is one I heard over Thanksgiving. It's how my Grandpa proposed to my Grandma.

They used to get together at a friend's house every weekend or so to play cards. Her favorite snack food was Cracker Jacks.
He bought several bags of Cracker Jacks, opened one from the bottom, removed the prize and stuck the engagement ring inside. She went to open the bags one by one, pulling out the prizes as she went. When she reached the bag with the ring in it, she pulled it out... put it on her finger and said something along the lines of "This is a really nice ring for a Cracker Jack prize!". Then she looked closer and realized what it was!

I thought it was possibly one of the cutest stories I've ever heard.
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 Ragnarok.Anye
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By Ragnarok.Anye 2009-12-26 04:00:07
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Ragnarok.Runfrior said:
Ragnarok.Nyran said:
How you propose really depends on the bond the couple shares. I had thought against posting a reply, but given that my own fiance had the same contemplation, maybe our little story will help a bit.

I'm a sneaky little devil!
OMG, Run. That was you??! And I've yet to meet Nyran, but I'm all the more glad to have met you in that East Ronfaure (S) party, now. :) I'm extremely happy for you two^^ /salute!

edit: Oh! And grats on PLD75^^

I REALLY liked this part:
Ragnarok.Nyran said:
Sometimes even a goofy method is something that becomes a favorite memory. But again, I stress that it really depends on what kind of relationship the couple shares. Most girls would prefer the romantic proposal that movies portray and they have dreamed about ever since they were little girls. I'm far from the type to speak for most girls, but I think it's safe to say this: No matter how the guy does it, we want it to be special to US - the couple, mind you. I would say "unique", but really, what idea is really unique anymore.

I hope that helps with the thought process for your friend, Atnaas (and any other of you fellas - or ladies - hoping to one day claim someone for yourself). As long as your heart is in it.
 Remora.Endrance
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By Remora.Endrance 2009-12-26 04:18:51
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Never Happened to me but I'm only 15 so maybe.

Here's the story:

An old friend was trying to think of the best way to propose and sadly I don't remember all the exact details but the main idea was that when she got home he would have a trail led out for her to follow which would eventually lead to him proposing. Like I said I don't remember all the details but it was very romantic sounding
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 Shiva.Xellith
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By Shiva.Xellith 2009-12-26 04:19:12
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sent flowers to my girls place of work with a poem attached. apparently it made all the other girls jealous lol
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 Ragnarok.Anye
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By Ragnarok.Anye 2009-12-26 04:22:19
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*tears in eyes* Wow, you guys.... Ifrit.Hitoseijuro's and Cerberus.Maryanne's posts were really, really touching. <3
 Remora.Endrance
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By Remora.Endrance 2009-12-26 04:23:39
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Oh fine completely ignore my poorly detailed story. I see how it is Anye... After all we've been through
 Ragnarok.Anye
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By Ragnarok.Anye 2009-12-26 04:51:20
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Remora.Endrance said:
Oh fine completely ignore my poorly detailed story. I see how it is Anye... After all we've been through
:< For the record, I had typed it up and left it on the screen, and didn't submit until later. :3 My humblest apologies~ ^^;

I like it, though! Reminds me of a friend who led his girlfriend in a scavenger hunt through all the places they'd hung out for the 3 years they'd been dating, ending at the beach where he had some candles and, um... flammable paste of some sort in the form of "WILL YOU MARRY ME?"..... sadly it was so windy that only half of the words showed up and all the candles blew out, so she had to see it all by the light of a mini-LED flashlight keychain that they actually gave out as wedding favors on their wedding day as a little joke/reminder of that day.
 Remora.Endrance
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By Remora.Endrance 2009-12-26 04:59:49
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You Know I was messing with you Anye~ :P
 Pandemonium.Bengal
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By Pandemonium.Bengal 2009-12-26 05:03:08
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Pandemonium.Eternaltriumph said:
"You can be my Sally and I'll be your Jack. You're broken but caring... while I'm a *** up, but I try my best. You are the yin to my yang, and the light to the darkness inside me. Where I fail, you succeed, and where you fall I pick you up. I doubt I'll ever be as good a person as you see me to be, and I doubt you will ever see yourself as gorgeous as I see you, but that's okay. We will never be perfect, and we have accepted that of each other, only because we have accepted that our mistakes make us beautiful.

We may be nothing but two broken people, Love. But...together, we make one perfect fix. Don't ya think?"

I'm a lot better with words than people would think. xD

Edit: As for the OP idea, it would seem really romantic, but it'd really depend on a woman. Some are the odd type and would rather the real ones to signify that although the world may change, they never have to.

Some women also would take it like...why add anything fake to the relationship, if your love is real?

Gonna assume you know her though and she's not THAT girl, so it would work nicely.
<3
Oh, you had to share it?
 Ragnarok.Anye
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By Ragnarok.Anye 2009-12-26 05:12:56
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Remora.Endrance said:
You Know I was messing with you Anye~ :P
Yeah... :3 But I still felt bad^^
 Pandemonium.Bengal
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By Pandemonium.Bengal 2009-12-26 05:25:26
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Ifrit.Hitoseijuro said:
Well where to begin, I dont consider it anything ive done romantic vs what others have posted, some of those things are very original and creative. I dont think Im very creative in the romance department sadly ;;. But heres my story, which is currently still going...(inc long story)
Sounds like she's using you to get stuff, bro.
Just my opinion.
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 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-12-26 05:26:16
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Holy wall of text batman
 Gilgamesh.Tallulah
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By Gilgamesh.Tallulah 2009-12-26 06:43:38
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Ramuh.Dasva said:
Holy wall of text batman

I'd have to agree.
Curious at that post removed by moderator.
Too chicken to post post anything on-topic.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-12-26 06:58:11
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Cerberus.Maryanne said:
Personally, I'm not very good at romantic gestures. I also tend to make it very difficult to do romantic things for me since I can be such a stony ***. I don't like large, overplayed romantic situations. Rings in champagne glasses, rooms filled with flowers, stuff like that. Not to say that it isn't wonderful for some people - but it just isn't for me. I'd be much happier if someone proposed to me with a ring around the neck of a beer bottle or something. That would be memorable.

To me, the little things mean the most. I love it when my boyfriend is unconsciously wonderful. The first time I met him IRL he brought me one of his sweatshirts because he knew I was always so cold. He took me for a walk in the forest in the snow the day before Christmas eve. He holds my hand around his family. He even remembered my favorite book and bought me one for Christmas pertaining to it. We've only been together a month, but he's made me happier than I think I ever have been.

I'd have to agree with this one. All that stuff might make most girls go gaga but to me it seems like some kind of game/manipulation. Like a more in depth version of meeting someone at a bar and trying to go home with them.

Seems to forced and means less to me vs say just being there for someone. Talking to them. Being yourselves and enjoying each other and those little things that you do without thinking about what effect it will have to show you care.

Anyone can come up with some pretty words or plan out some grand gestures. But to me they seem to prove more about what you want someone to think about you or think you think about them that what you really do feel. While the little things over time show you care and are paying attention or beign there for them over and over etc.
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 Seraph.Caiyuo
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By Seraph.Caiyuo 2009-12-26 08:17:48
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This isn't my story, rather a cousin's story of being proposed to. She and her boyfriend (now husband) are pretty redneck-y, but really likable and friendly people. To give perspective of the kind of guy he is, he was a wrestler in High School, a state-wide Arm-wrestling contest winner for years; he hunts with friends and family, always getting in fights at bars in previous years with his friends and things like that. Not really sure of what type of picture to paint of him here, but safe to say romance didn't really seem his thing, as far as I knew.

Without any expectations of him proposing to her except that she'd wanted him to for a long time, they went out for an airboat ride early one morning with friends when the sun had come up and it was still cold out. They were bundled up in thick jackets and she held him close while he drove the boat. They had their own boat and decided to separate and rode through a small, narrow canal for a short while. After a sharp bend she noticed a large banner stretched across the water between two trees. When they finally got close enough to read, she saw that it read in large letters, "Angela, will you marry me?" - he'd stopped the boat and as it sank in what was happening she saw him on his knee with her ring and she just barely squeaked out a "yes!" from all the nerves and adrenaline hitting her at once from the moment. They hugged in a strong embrace and their friends all cheered and they were now engaged! Luckily this was all caught on video. lol *erases all this and replaces youtube video*
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 Kujata.Erim
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By Kujata.Erim 2009-12-26 09:04:21
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Ramuh.Dasva said:
I'd have to agree with this one. All that stuff might make most girls go gaga but to me it seems like some kind of game/manipulation. Like a more in depth version of meeting someone at a bar and trying to go home with them.

Seems to forced and means less to me vs say just being there for someone. Talking to them. Being yourselves and enjoying each other and those little things that you do without thinking about what effect it will have to show you care.

Anyone can come up with some pretty words or plan out some grand gestures. But to me they seem to prove more about what you want someone to think about you or think you think about them that what you really do feel. While the little things over time show you care and are paying attention or beign there for them over and over etc.

Being there for someone, enjoying each others company, and those little things certainly are important, but those things are proven in the years before a proposal is even made. Most men try to make the occasion special... not manipulative.

True, anybody can write a poem, I could write one right now but it wouldn't mean a thing to anybody because nobody is in my heart when I think up these words. When you write a poem with someone specifically in mind, then a poem means something. When you make your own personal party, just for you and your love like Dramanue did for his girl at the time, it won't mean anything to just a couple, but it did to them because of the circumstances, it was personalized.

The occasion can be big or small, just us, or all our friends, it makes little difference to someone like me.
The scope of the occasion means nothing, as long as it comes from his heart.
As sappy as that sounds, its what matters to me, and I would hope, most women.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-12-26 09:09:42
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Oh I didn't just mean proposals. I meant in general. And I disagree on the manipulative thing. After all you are trying to elict a certain response usually if you are making plans or putting together lots of sweet talk.
 Kujata.Erim
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By Kujata.Erim 2009-12-26 09:09:56
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Gilgamesh.Tallulah said:
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Holy wall of text batman

I'd have to agree.
Curious at that post removed by moderator.
Too chicken to post post anything on-topic.

You're not missing anything lol
Juvenile jokes is all.

Ramuh.Dasva said:
Oh I didn't just mean proposals. I meant in general. And I disagree on the manipulative thing. After all you are trying to elict a certain response usually if you are making plans or putting together lots of sweet talk.

The word manipulation suggests he is trying to control her to meet some need of his, sex or money for example. I seriously doubt many men propose marriage with that in their mind.

I think manipulation is a poor choice in words.
 Sylph.Atnaas
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By Sylph.Atnaas 2009-12-26 16:25:53
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Well first off , i want to say thankyou, for once a thread with very little immaturity and flame - some of your posts touched me extremely, AND ITS NOT EVEN ME PROPOSING! I hope people have more to share about stories etc and its amazing to see such a nice different side from people of different origins, backgrounds etc.
Thankyou guys (:
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-12-26 16:31:10
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Kujata.Erim said:
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Oh I didn't just mean proposals. I meant in general. And I disagree on the manipulative thing. After all you are trying to elict a certain response usually if you are making plans or putting together lots of sweet talk.
The word manipulation suggests he is trying to control her to meet some need of his, sex or money for example. I seriously doubt many men propose marriage with that in their mind. I think manipulation is a poor choice in words.
Oh and being with someone isn't a need?
 Kujata.Erim
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By Kujata.Erim 2009-12-26 16:45:06
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Ramuh.Dasva said:
Kujata.Erim said:
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Oh I didn't just mean proposals. I meant in general. And I disagree on the manipulative thing. After all you are trying to elict a certain response usually if you are making plans or putting together lots of sweet talk.
The word manipulation suggests he is trying to control her to meet some need of his, sex or money for example. I seriously doubt many men propose marriage with that in their mind. I think manipulation is a poor choice in words.
Oh and being with someone isn't a need?

If his only need is to be with her, he is most likely doing it out of love and not intentionally manipulating her.

It's just an incredibly strong word to use when someone is just expressing his love through actions. Calling it manipulation seems to be very cynical of you. I didn't mean to argue with you however, I apologize.
 Sylph.Beelshamen
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By Sylph.Beelshamen 2009-12-26 16:48:41
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Ifrit.Hitoseijuro said:
Wall of text that I read.

WTF? You call Chris obsessive? You're the one that got declined I don't know how many times. You're the one that changed you jobshift so you could spent more time ingame not getting any sleep in the process.

I think the real obsessed person here is you.


-

I've never done anything excessively romantic that would be noteworthy. I'm not the romantic type.
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 Kujata.Erim
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By Kujata.Erim 2009-12-26 16:53:18
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Sylph.Beelshamen said:
Ifrit.Hitoseijuro said:
Wall of text that I read.

WTF? You call Chris obsessive? You're the one that got declined I don't know how many times. You're the one that changed you jobshift so you could spent more time ingame not getting any sleep in the process.

I think the real obsessed person here is you.


-

I've never done anything excessively romantic that would be noteworthy. I'm not the romantic type.

Obviously, judging from your response. lol xD
However I am in agreement, calling her obsessive and not looking at what he was doing WAS strange, but that was hardly the point of the story.
 Sylph.Beelshamen
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By Sylph.Beelshamen 2009-12-26 16:58:07
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Kujata.Erim said:
However I am in agreement, calling her obsessive and not looking at what he was doing WAS strange, but that was hardly the point of the story.


I must have misread the title of the thread then. You see, I was under the impression that people were to post their romantic experiences. All I've seen is a QQ wall of text about a typical ingame partnership.

If I've missed the point I'm sure you'd be so kind to explain it in detail.
 Kujata.Erim
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By Kujata.Erim 2009-12-26 17:00:21
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Sylph.Beelshamen said:
Kujata.Erim said:
However I am in agreement, calling her obsessive and not looking at what he was doing WAS strange, but that was hardly the point of the story.


I must have misread the title of the thread then. You see, I was under the impression that people were to post their romantic experiences. All I've seen is a QQ wall of text about a typical ingame partnership.

If I've missed the point I'm sure you'd be so kind to explain it in detail.

I meant the story was about his love interest, not that other girl you're referring to and the fact that he may have been obsessive lol.

EDIT: I do realize though... there really was no one specific romantic experience through that story. ;;
Sorry Beel, I don't mean to argue. lol
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-12-26 17:20:42
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Kujata.Erim said:
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Kujata.Erim said:
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Oh I didn't just mean proposals. I meant in general. And I disagree on the manipulative thing. After all you are trying to elict a certain response usually if you are making plans or putting together lots of sweet talk.
The word manipulation suggests he is trying to control her to meet some need of his, sex or money for example. I seriously doubt many men propose marriage with that in their mind. I think manipulation is a poor choice in words.
Oh and being with someone isn't a need?
If his only need is to be with her, he is most likely doing it out of love and not intentionally manipulating her.

It's just an incredibly strong word to use when someone is just expressing his love through actions. Calling it manipulation seems to be very cynical of you. I didn't mean to argue with you however, I apologize.
Never said it was intentional. People constantly do things to manipulate people in small and sometimes big ways without realizing that is what they are doing. It's easy all too easy. I used to have a real problem with it much more than most people do so now I kinda always have to analyze the reasons behind why I am trying to change someones actions/thoughts. Is it out of my interest or theres or both? Sometimes it's hard to tell especially with strong friendships/love/family since what you want and the reason you are doing it can be ultimately kinda selfish but because of the nature of the relationship and what you want end up benefitting both anyways.

And yes I am cycnical and if you perfer we can switch manipulate with persuade.
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