Do You Prefer The Current Stat Values?

weapon skill+ isnt any different from the skill merits you get already apart from after a certain value the acc/atk changes to 1:1 skill:acc/atk or something, its macc skill that has some funky translation into raw macc

The only time it would be different is h2h

https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Accuracy
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Attack

It's not precisely 1:1 for accuracy, but close enough for government work. Exactly 1 attack per skill.

Way better now, I always found the amount of effort for getting +1 STR was so silly. I'll never forget so many people championing "Sacrifice Torque", they would say you are a bad SMN for not bping in that for the ATK, and years later we found out it was +5 ATK. I don't get why anyone would want to go back to something so basic when we have a lot of unique stats on gear now. It opens up for a lot of new ways to play and lets various jobs do different things they normally weren't able to before. I do think they fumbled on the overall idea of item level, but I blame that on the lack of care/funding that dwindled over the years.

Honestly I would want something in between, without the concept of ilevel but with player level going beyond 99 (technically it already happens with ML but w/e).
Also without negative stats, if not for very very very rare exceptions which would be fine.

But if you force me to pick between "then" and "now" I'll pick "now" without any doubt.

Back in the old era at level 75 base dagger damage was so low it wasn't worth it to hit most end game HNM mobs with it because the TP feed outweighed any benefits you got from damage. Although I will say I remember being able to keep up with the black mages on damage output at Khimaira on thief by subbing /war and just using sneak attack and trick attack and stacking full on dex and agi with as much attack as I could get. Those two crits every minute did as much damage as the nukes. Fun times maybe... but not very balanced. Back then samurai was king on all end game events and half the jobs were unplayable.

The Ilvl stat piles allow all the jobs to function and in the current form of the game every job is viable and can do its thing on a similar level as other jobs. This is the best the class balance has felt literally ever.

couple questions of clarification for those who dislike XI's implementation of iLvl:

1. I have been under the assumption this whole time that everyone appreciated the need for it to allow the game to keep growing, but is this true? Considering the popularity, even short-term, of Classic XI private servers, I wonder.

2. If you did agree with the system's necessity, is it just how SE makes the stats visible vs hidden that is bothersome? I get that it makes gear comparison a little visually harder, but really, we're talking about maybe what another 20-30seconds to scan?

3. Is the major complaint regarding "stat vomit gear" just that need for a more discerning eye compared to other games? I always hear how different gear progression in XI is compared to other MMOs, but since I don't have any experience in those games I have no real ability to critique.

I ask because it seems like most appreciate the need to allow gear to keep growing, or the game would have stagnated, they just don't think it looks clean in terms of trying to compare gear. But I do honestly think most who played in the 75 era and experienced the switch in real time are quite ok discerning gear choices even with the "stat vomit".

It's the classic good (necessary) idea, done poorly.

No one is going to say they don't want +40 str and 200 meva over +10 str and zero meva, it's just visually abrasive and needlessly confusing

Staying at 119 despite new 119 being drastically better than old 119 is just awkward.
Much more awkward than older 75 vs newest 75, or oldest 99 vs newest 99.

Its primarily the UI, the gear in XI needed to improve as before mid-late AU your gear to 75 was incredibly limited beyond some changes to def/ele resist

When you can filter out the ilvl aspect gear today is still relatively simple outside of pet gear, some base stats are higher, some of the acc/atk etc are higher, might have a ja boost and some dt. Its just packed into that whole list of stat vomit which for anyone unfamiliar with ilvl just looks complicated or intimidating


That didnt help either old skirmish/delve/original htbs 119 isnt the same as escha 119 which isnt the same as ody/some newer htbs 119, it just creates confusion, we're technically 125 or some such before MLs

Lol, lmao even. 119 for the last 10 years it not good implementation of item level concept. WoW and FF14 had both been out for however long by the time FF11 had item level implemented, SE didn't need to reinvent the wheel by making 20+ tiers of ilvl 119. Just tell us what the equivalent "gear score" is.

lmao indeed. A "better" gear system is one in which you can just look at a single number on every piece of gear and rank-order them by which is the best one without firing a single neuron in your brain.

I wish FFXI would get with the times and have an amazing gear system like FFXIV. We need more depth.

Actually, we should really strive for perfection here: give me a green or red arrow next to the item level, so I don't have to do math to tell which number is higher, I can just put on the equipment with the green arrows, and take off the equipment with the red arrows.

XI players complained when ilvl came out that they replaced levels with having to gear up to i105 then i117 then i119 and then whatever else came after.

So they went ok, you can stay at i119. New gear will still obviously be better or why bring out new gear.

Would prefer they just called it its real ilvl but they didn't. Just look at the stats and decide, it's not hard.

Actually we went immediately to 119 THEN they tried to back fill 103 105 107 109 113 115 117

They had *** up. And doubled down. Apparently decided fine, everything is just 119 then. Cause if we properly call it 121 125 131 you'll just skip to the end (cause *** duh).

It's not "difficult" to tell which body has more str, but it is unnecessary. It's poorly implemented solely to be obnoxious which is how everything in XI is.
So it's on brand.

What I've always hated about the stat vomit is that it's a jury-rigged substitute for basic character levels. Which is patently obvious, but when a level-up gives about 20 different stats at once, you wind up with gear that is an unreadable nightmare of letters and numbers. I remember putting together a spreadsheet just to try to compare a few things to figure out what I wanted to work towards.

But if the game's level cap was 150ish, the core veterans would probably have lost their ***, especially the JP ones.

Which would not work for FFXI. If you have the "best" gear for TP gain it would not be the best gear for WS damage (which is not the same for every WS). Nor would it be the best for nuking, which is a different set of gear from bursting.

There isn't a 1 piece that fits all approach here. So gear score would be largely useless, much like ilvl is, past making sure you are 119 ilvl.

In and of itself, I do not think that is a necessarily a bad thing. The gear progression in FFXIV basically starts anew every Savage tier, so everyone can take a long break until they want to return and enjoy the story.

But I really hate how one-dimensional the stats in FFXIV are. For every job, there is only one primary stat relevant for offensive performance, fixed by the item level. The "BiS" for each Savage tier is min-maxing of a few secondary stats just between two higest ilvl sets and that's it.

For a RDM, our STR, DEX, AGI and MND never matter, and our gear only increases our INT and VIT. Even our cure is based on INT and not MND. At the current ilvl we end up with having thousands of INT and VIT with all the other stats being trash. Being a RDM coming from FFXI, that just feels awful.

TL;DR: I totally agree with you, that the profound gear progression in FFXI is what keeps me engaged.

I can definitely accept that was a poor way for me to phrase it. I don't want the extreme homogenization FF14 has. It's cool to be able to piecemeal a set for whatever whacky strat you're trying to do, and I've done that before. Others have brought up the same issue as what I intended - the amount of stats listed on each piece of gear and the janky way stats are sometimes presented just makes players' eyes glaze over, so of course they just go to various guides to be told what to use. It's relatively easy for veteran players to pick out relevant stats on gear, but that's sort of its own skill which just makes it another barrier for newer players. Idk. I don't really have an alternative solution I guess. Even if any of us did, SE isn't going to be implementing that kind of change at this point so it's all sort of moot.

Definitely the current but they took it too far.

Haste became too important and just slapped on everything to the point they had to cap us at 80% delay. It was either rare or came at an expense at 75 cap. (most jobs couldn't cap for a long time)
Magic haste should have capped at around 25%.

The point of this game is cap haste, cap acc, cap attack but its extremely weighted to BRD,COR,GEO to achieve these things. 4 Slots in every party are between 5 jobs; BRD,WHM,COR,GEO or RDM.

WSdmg got out of control, so they had to move to PDL (more att needed, more BRD,COR,GEO! yay) Nuking outside of specific fights took a back seat to WS spam.

-DT on everything, some of the best offensive pieces are now also the best defensive pieces. (Nyame and Emp+3) I don't mind how simple my lua is now but it took away some of what makes this game great. The situational sets.

I prefer todays stats, but I prefer the old days pace of play.

The thing of that is it was more meaningful.

Now we just mash control 1 every 3 seconds. Just shallow meaningless button mashing. (that's why it's all automated now)

Different kinds of fun. Some people find it very amusing to push one button all day. Some don't.

Superfun to just let your only braincell nap while you watch your gearswap spam savageblade. Much Excite.
(Yes, Hi Ejiin, v25 bumba is much more fun, casting kaustra and watching it die of old age)

lolWHM, they took our jerbs!


It's not how simple the lua is, it's the wardrobe space that makes me ok with these pieces. With everything being significantly faster, Nyame making you less of a casualty when WSing is QoL/Luxury that I'm happy they added. If the game were slower, I'd be ok with it not being what it is.

I'm pretty much there too

The challenge in FFXI combat never comes from how difficult it is to execute a WS, SC, or even MB. The difficulty comes from the enemies. Having to buff yourself, debuff them, deal with their damage, their TP moves, not feed too much TP, dealing with multiple enemies at once, etc.

The only real "DPS checks" in ffxi are Sheol:Gaol. Everything else is more about mitigating the damage and TP moves coming out from the boss.

Pretending like DPS jobs have ever or will ever be difficult to play in FFXI is a joke. 75-era WAR, MNK, RNG, DRG, etc. was basically the same it is now, but much slower and simpler. It could not get more braindead. EXP party: stand still and make sure you're facing the enemy. Wait until SC partner has TP, use a WS or wait for the window and then use a WS. Rinse and repeat. Maybe use Utsusemi: Ichi if a mob is looking at you. The really "skilled" players knew to cast utsu with 1 shadow left :O

Kinda tired of this meta... it's been what? FOREVER

SE isn't attempting to make the game more open for other jobs to compete for those spots. Skill, Gear, dedication, and preparation don't matter if those 3 jobs don't give their A Game.

Giving bards another melee (physical but no one plays ranger and cors are all leaden or savage blade) enhancing song was a braindead move.
Its amazing how much XI devs hate offensive mage jobs.

Melee get multiple attack, multiple accuracy, multiple haste including a bumboklaatt song that has all 3 of the previous wrapped in one. Mages get Ballad and INT.

What would you recommend for an offensive mage-based melee spell? I think Red Mages are eating really well right now.

In a perfect world, BST/DNC/BLU would be melee+party-buffers on the level of BRD/COR/GEO. This would increase the range of buffs that party members (including mages!) can receive.

literally anything.

MAB
MACC
MDMG
Partial/Full Nuke Wall bypass

anything.

elemental damage+%, just like carols there's 1 for every element. Basically as close to magic PDL as youll get in this game

Prime Horn gives the ability to sing Bolero's, which are a new song that enhance elemental affinity.

Shiva's Bolero
Ifrits Bolero
Carbuncle's Bolero
etc

LITERALLY ANYTHING instead of yet another melee buff song.

Can't do more than 99999 it'd be a (mostly) moot point.

Unless nukes can burst without bursting. Give bard umbral threnody and radial threnody so the mob is permanently under skillchain status and erase all semblance of strategy. About all you can do.

(In that context, a blm boosting song, not "but the wall" or "muh double cast" or "nerf this blahblahblah")

It's funny, the whole "everything is a nail" statement. Every answer is always just "more dps" "more more more dps" always more dps. Even when the damage is completely capped the answer is still more dps. Literally a bag of hammers.