|
|
Meathead DDs of FFXI, please help me understand...
By Felgarr 2023-07-05 16:49:13
Hello fellow FFXI players!
I've been away from FFXI for most of 2023 and I've noticed a prevailing attitude among certain types of FFXI players. I think it's always existed, but maybe has gotten worse in recent time. I noticed that many (DD) players approach the game (those who still play FFXI after a recent player drop), seem to have a common approach towards the games objectives, regardless of their party composition and regardless of who they are playing with.
To be blunt, I see a complete lack of regard for the game's mechanics and these folks tend to approach objectives with total reckless abandonment. Very often, the consequences of their actions fall upon the other party members to correct and to say it's a thankless job, is an understatement. Unfortunately, I don't believe that being oblivious to consequences relinquishes you from blame. This also may come as a shock, but being #1 on the parse doesn't make up for your impairment on the group's overall effectiveness.
Let's be clear for a moment. I'm not talking about honest mistakes from players who genuinely want to learn or improve. For one, I have a tremendous amount of patience for people who want to learn or put in effort or are striving to be better.
If what I'm saying still isn't clear, here are some of my favorite, most memorable moments:
Problem: DD in Sortie regularly refuses to use meds/oils/powders and flagrantly aggros mobs as the group moves from objective to objective.
Consequence: The last person to the Porter/Bitzer is left with your aggro and may not be able to proceed because of mob's hitting them. The person who is expected to sleep these mobs may not have the correct light/dark-element sleep for the unwanted mobs you've so graciously hand-delivered to your group. That person dies and the Sortie group loses time.
Solution: Oils and Prism Powders are ~6000g/stack. Use them and be aware of your surroundings/team mates.
Problem: DD in a hyper-rush to get the boss in any given Sortie objective rushes to be the first one there and over-zealously engages the Boss when buffs aren't ready.
Consequence: You're racing to be the first at a red-light. Pre-maturely engaging the boss can lock folks out who haven't made it there yet (for many different reasons, including but not limited to different kinds of movement-speed gear).
Solution: See #1.
Problem: DD in Omen is weak with yellow HP from having died in the previous floor. No DT set, mass pull in the prior floor. The DD runs into a group of mobs and aggros nearby undead with yellow HP. The Healer told the DD to wait and the DD said "My HP is your problem, not mine!"
Consequence: This should be self-explanatory. You hurt the overall party's progression with your weakness.
Solution: I just don't know what to say, but you should feel bad.
Problem: An ML50 WAR in a sortie run kills Botulus in 40 seconds and is extremely proud of himself. He's aware the objective requires WSes from behind, but he still positions himself at a right angle. The tank is facing Botulus, the ML50 WAR is on the side, and everyone else is correctly facing the back). The WAR's second Upheaval causes Botulus to turn to him and hate isn't ever recovered by the tank. At the next salamander, everyone is inflicted with uncurable poison, dies and we all lose 5 minutes.
Consequence: Botulus's KI is needed to remove this uncurable poison. The WAR's thinking that DPS > all or that More DPS = more time savings actually backfired because there's no way to survive long enough given how potent the uncurable Poison is. To add insult to injury, when the salamander is supposed to be kited, the ML50 WAR opens the fight with Mighty Strikes, while the tank has only issued a single flash.
Solution: I just don't know what solution to offer here, when someone thinks their Weaponskills are kisses from God.
Problem: In a sortie D->H access run, someone clicks the Rematerialize button with 15 minutes remaining.
Consequence: Not having killed all the fomor yet, re-spawning them means the group loses track of what they did/did not kill.
Solution: I just have no words for this one.
To the DD Player who often initiates this wake of self-destruction on their party:
Why is it always someone else's problem? Why are you the way that you are?
What entitles you to have this "not my problem" attitude when you actually need other people to play (most objectives) in this game?
Why does the parse matter so much to you when your support jobs probably hate you after just 1 or 2 runs?
Why diminish the roles of other people in your party with your shenanigans?
Looking for serious, honest and constructive answers. I mean, what can we do to improve collaboration in a game that demands it?
Thanks.
TLDR: It doesn't matter what the demands of the role are, when you hire Will Ferell or Tom Cruise, you're just going to get Will Ferrell or Tom Cruise. Why are DDs still like this? Be better.
 Quetzalcoatl.Jakey
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 463
By Quetzalcoatl.Jakey 2023-07-05 17:13:35
From an efficiency standpoint yes just trying to win parse above all is bad and inefficient. Parses should be used as a tool not a competition if you want to have most efficient runs.
That said you've got a mix of people who are too stupid too realize how much worse they are making their runs and people who are too bored to care and I'm not sure that there's a lot you can do about either besides getting a very motivated static together.
[+]
By Nariont 2023-07-05 17:23:50
DPS have always been the biggest morons of the class systems and assume its entirely their doing that fights are won when there's 2 other groupings that allow them to do so/keep them alive and commonly have little regard for mechanics or strategy, just make numbers go up and target HP go down.
I think the change comes from content in this game and others largely don't punish failure outside a few instances such as sortie, or ruining a Ou run in the past, everything else is usually a case of get back up and try again.
Not really a solve to be had beyond the standard; keep a count on the good players, and the bad ones, vet your party members basically
[+]
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 174
By Asura.Splendid 2023-07-05 17:26:09
I cackled at this post. This isn’t a prevailing attitude in just 2023, this attitude has been the prevailing attitude among NA players since, well, forever.
Edit:
My favorite problem is: DD gets top damage for 15 seconds ripping hate off of the tank.
Consequence: Said DD blames everyone for dying.
“Why wasn’t I healed? Why didn’t the tank have hate? What do you mean I can’t just open the fight with a 99999 Leaden Salute?”
Lakshmi.Sahzi
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 300
By Lakshmi.Sahzi 2023-07-05 17:27:50
"My HP is your problem, not mine!"
If I'm curing and am lucky enough to be subbing blm (for some reason) that line will earn you a warp home. Guaranteed.
By Serjero 2023-07-05 17:31:45
Why is it always someone else's problem? Why are you the way that you are? Each job has their role to take care of in the party DD job is to DD anything else that happens is because the tank is bad the healer is slow or the supports need to learn what buffs to use.
Quote: What entitles you to have this "not my problem" attitude when you actually need other people to play (most objectives) in this game? Obviously it's because the DD is the one carrying the group on their back cause if you don't kill the mob you don't get the loot/points/clear. Everyone else exists to make sure that the DD is able to do so.
Quote: Why does the parse matter so much to you when your support jobs probably hate you after just 1 or 2 runs? There's only one lane to go and it's the fast lane. You never stop going for big *** damage that's DDs singular responsibility. If you aren't flexing the epeen on the parse then what's even the point of leaving the moghouse.
Quote: Why diminish the roles of other people in your party with your shenanigans? Nearly every other job can be pretty much botted to perfection whereas DD needs to be there to time JAs and WSs to maximize DPS and either make sure they do the SCs properly or prevent the SCs, manage WS/Nuke walls and make the big feel good numbers pop up.
Seriousish answers but really some people are just dumb and do dumb things, most of the mechanics in this game are more than well established but people just don't want to learn and get better. This can equally be applied to tanks, healers, and supports but there are 9-12 DD jobs in the game, 2-3 healers, 2-3 tanks, and 3ish dedicated supports so the LCD trends more towards players on DD jobs than the others just from sheer volume. There's also considerably more effort that goes into most of the non-DD jobs into getting them up to snuff for harder end-game content.
The best thing to do is to make sure people understand the mechanics, go over strategies and concepts, and just explain how the fight is supposed to go. If people are unwilling to cooperate and learn then just don't invite them next time. The average FFXI player in 2023 is over 30 if they can't act like an adult in a group setting then they can go play with their trusts in the corner.
By Blazed1979 2023-07-05 17:35:00
you can thank Abyssea and everything that came afterwards (including the players)
 Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10366
By Asura.Saevel 2023-07-05 17:38:09
you can thank Abyssea and everything that came afterwards (including the players)
Ehh people were doing this back in the days of Ranger spam with JesusWinder.
By Nariont 2023-07-05 17:41:21
you can thank Abyssea and everything that came afterwards (including the players)
Aby mighta made it more common but this was happening for basically everything before then, most common woulda likely been nyzul pick ups back in the day, storyline missions, dynamis, limbus, you name it, all aby did was allow a player to very quickly hit level cap
[+]
 Bahamut.Skald
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 93
By Bahamut.Skald 2023-07-05 17:46:14
"My HP is your problem, not mine!"
If I'm curing and am lucky enough to be subbing blm (for some reason) that line will earn you a warp home. Guaranteed. 100%. That kind of response is ridiculous and would immediately invoke the rare use case of pianissimo 4-5 status ailment songs.
By Blazed1979 2023-07-05 17:52:29
you can thank Abyssea and everything that came afterwards (including the players)
Ehh people were doing this back in the days of Ranger spam with JesusWinder. on weapons and statues in sky maybe for exp parties. but they couldn't pull that off on nid, faf, khim, Tiamat. Cerb was the only one that had a low skill ceiling for 75% of the fight and then it was GoH wall "oh ***we dont have a stunner"
Dont get me wrong. there were people tp burning Kirin before Abyssea. and even some people who tossed 6 monks at nidhogg and won.but they needed to be decked out. it wasn't everyone.
Abyssea made it pretty much mainstream.
I could be wrong. I was heavily in HNM back then and only really considered that end-game content.
[+]
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1880
By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2023-07-05 17:53:11
Those kind of people don't get to DD a second time. Players of this ilk need to realize they need us, we don't need them.
I can find a DD willing to play the job properly faster than I can find the BRD, GEO and healer also needed....so why tolerate bad game mechanics from anyone in that position? But those DDs who treat the support in their parties as HQ Trusts, not fellow human beings, are only enabled by people so desperate to do content they're willing to give players like this repeat invites.
And as pointed out- this isn't a new thing. It is worse than its ever been since more and more players just either afk strengthen their characters or have their own army for 90% of what they do. They aren't used to having to cooperate with other humans- they just write a script for who's not them.
Again, if you want to stop this- stop giving a second invite to DDs who act this way. Trust me, you'll still find plenty of DDs, and perhaps one day you can invite that asshat's BRD alt to shut up and sing like they want you to.
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10366
By Asura.Saevel 2023-07-05 17:57:56
you can thank Abyssea and everything that came afterwards (including the players)
Ehh people were doing this back in the days of Ranger spam with JesusWinder. on weapons and statues in sky maybe for exp parties. but they couldn't pull that off on nid, faf, khim, Tiamat. Cerb was the only one that had a low skill ceiling for 75% of the fight and then it was GoH wall "oh ***we dont have a stunner"
Dont get me wrong. there were people tp burning Kirin before Abyssea. and even some people who tossed 6 monks at nidhogg and won.but they needed to be decked out. it wasn't everyone.
Abyssea made it pretty much mainstream.
I could be wrong. I was heavily in HNM back then and only really considered that end-game content.
I remember many a Ranger pulling hate on gods, jailers or kings, resulting in folks having to kite a bit. Back then Ranged attacks, including weapon skills, didn't pDiff penalty from level correction that everyone else did, they did full damage to the sky god as they would to a level 1 bunny. I've even seen groups have an ambulance party on standby to hand out raises to the dead rangers along with spares to swap in.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 201
By Asura.Yottaxa 2023-07-05 18:00:57
Hello fellow FFXI players!
[li]Problem: In a sortie D->H access run, someone clicks the Rematerialize button with 15 minutes remaining.
Consequence: Not having killed all the fomor yet, re-spawning them means the group loses track of what they did/did not kill.
Solution: I just have no words for this one.
Please tell me this didn't really happen?. That is truly beyond words. :( I feel for you on that one. wow. just wow.
[+]
By Felgarr 2023-07-05 18:09:29
I cackled at this post. This isn’t a prevailing attitude in just 2023, this attitude has been the prevailing attitude among NA players since, well, forever.
Edit:
My favorite problem is: DD gets top damage for 15 seconds ripping hate off of the tank.
Consequence: Said DD blames everyone for dying.
“Why wasn’t I healed? Why didn’t the tank have hate? What do you mean I can’t just open the fight with a 99999 Leaden Salute?”
Yes, we are in agreement. If you read the sentence after that, I say "I think it's always existed". I use that world "prevailing" because I keep encountering these kinds of DD players for some reason. It's as if their mental capacity and thought processes are permanently frozen in time.
By Dodik 2023-07-05 18:20:39
[+]
By Felgarr 2023-07-05 18:21:45
Why is it always someone else's problem? Why are you the way that you are? Each job has their role to take care of in the party DD job is to DD anything else that happens is because the tank is bad the healer is slow or the supports need to learn what buffs to use.
I think you prove a lot of my points. There are singular responsibilities in this game, sure. But there are also party-wide responsibilities and Enmity (for example), is everyone's responsibility, starting when the mob has 100% HP and ending when the mob has 0% HP.
Quote: What entitles you to have this "not my problem" attitude when you actually need other people to play (most objectives) in this game? Obviously it's because the DD is the one carrying the group on their back cause if you don't kill the mob you don't get the loot/points/clear. Everyone else exists to make sure that the DD is able to do so.
If you think 1 DD is carrying a group, then you're taking the responsibilities of everyone else for granted. Someone is holding hate periodically, someone is buffing the DDs and healing too. If the party isn't operating a pace that you are comfortable with, you need to adjust your pace so you don't burn them out. This includes their resources.
Quote: Why does the parse matter so much to you when your support jobs probably hate you after just 1 or 2 runs? There's only one lane to go and it's the fast lane. You never stop going for big *** damage that's DDs singular responsibility. If you aren't flexing the epeen on the parse then what's even the point of leaving the moghouse. So, then a DD opening with a 99k Leaden Salute must be doing a great job? This is so incredibly wrong. Other players are not just conversational trusts that react to your impulsive playstyle.
Hyperactive DDs with no impulse control screw up enmity mechanics, cause mobs to bounce around, exhaust MP pools and frustrate actual humans who want to play support jobs. They just waste more time than their high DPS is saving.
Sweet Jesus. I need a xanax.
By Felgarr 2023-07-05 18:22:34
Hello fellow FFXI players!
[li]Problem: In a sortie D->H access run, someone clicks the Rematerialize button with 15 minutes remaining.
Consequence: Not having killed all the fomor yet, re-spawning them means the group loses track of what they did/did not kill.
Solution: I just have no words for this one.
Please tell me this didn't really happen?. That is truly beyond words. :( I feel for you on that one. wow. just wow.
Yeah, only 1 person actually realized: "Hey aren't we supposed to be fighting this Demisang NM a second time?" haha.
Carbuncle.Nynja
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6625
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2023-07-05 18:22:49
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2023-07-05 18:24:29
Relatively standard pickup experience any where, any year, any game
If you never see it, it's because you're stuck in your ls/static bubble. Or there's no one on your server to show you, ghostown.
[+]
By Felgarr 2023-07-05 18:25:58
you can thank Abyssea and everything that came afterwards (including the players)
Ehh people were doing this back in the days of Ranger spam with JesusWinder. on weapons and statues in sky maybe for exp parties. but they couldn't pull that off on nid, faf, khim, Tiamat. Cerb was the only one that had a low skill ceiling for 75% of the fight and then it was GoH wall "oh ***we dont have a stunner"
Dont get me wrong. there were people tp burning Kirin before Abyssea. and even some people who tossed 6 monks at nidhogg and won.but they needed to be decked out. it wasn't everyone.
Abyssea made it pretty much mainstream.
I could be wrong. I was heavily in HNM back then and only really considered that end-game content.
I remember many a Ranger pulling hate on gods, jailers or kings, resulting in folks having to kite a bit. Back then Ranged attacks, including weapon skills, didn't pDiff penalty from level correction that everyone else did, they did full damage to the sky god as they would to a level 1 bunny. I've even seen groups have an ambulance party on standby to hand out raises to the dead rangers along with spares to swap in.
I too was a former member of the Ambulance party as a BST/WHM. Emergency Raise 1 and third-string kiter after PLD or someone /NIN. I truly did not appreciate at the time how bad these face-roll strategies were.
By Felgarr 2023-07-05 18:27:20
"My HP is your problem, not mine!"
If I'm curing and am lucky enough to be subbing blm (for some reason) that line will earn you a warp home. Guaranteed. 100%. That kind of response is ridiculous and would immediately invoke the rare use case of pianissimo 4-5 status ailment songs.
I fully support this.
 Cerberus.Kylos
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4753
By Cerberus.Kylos 2023-07-05 18:36:08
As a DD since 2004, let's address these problems.
1. This isn't a DD issue. It's a stupid person issue. Stupid people need to be told to bring the right items, and if stupid people still don't bring those items and use them when they were told, they are stupid and should be left out.
2. Again, not a DD issue, it's a stupid person issue. Most players, no matter what the job, would have the common sense to wait for buffs before they engage a big nasty.
3. And again, not a DD issue. Doesn't matter what kind of DD you are, if you are weak, you stay the hell back out of range and don't fight anything until you are unweak, because you're not contributing anything with your weak arse damage anyway.
4. And, and again, not a DD issue. This player needs to be told not once, not twice, but at least three times before you even get to Botulus how to handle the mechanic. If they still can't get it right, don't let them in your party.
5. And, and, and again, not a DD issue. And they may not be an idiot this time, because they likely assumed that they needed to click on it to warp somewhere. Sortie has many mechanics. The leader should sufficiently tell players what they should and shouldn't do. In this case, they will learn from it. If they do it again on another run, then they are an idiot.
You seem to have banded players who don't think with "meathead DD", which isn't remotely the same thing. For me, a "meathead DD" is someone who constantly zergs, pulls hate from their tank, dies, and then blames the tank & healer for a consequence they could have avoided by simply putting on a -DT set, turning, and then waiting for their time to shine again. None of those problems you listed falls under this description.
It should be noted that I have ran with many players in my time and only come across a "dumb player" only 0.1% of the time, mostly because I overly drill everyone on everything until they get sick of me talking. Then, through all that effort, I forget what I'm supposed to be doing, lol.
By Felgarr 2023-07-05 18:37:06
Why does the parse matter so much to you when your support jobs probably hate you after just 1 or 2 runs? There's only one lane to go and it's the fast lane. You never stop going for big *** damage that's DDs singular responsibility. If you aren't flexing the epeen on the parse then what's even the point of leaving the moghouse. The best thing to do is to make sure people understand the mechanics, go over strategies and concepts, and just explain how the fight is supposed to go. If people are unwilling to cooperate and learn then just don't invite them next time. The average FFXI player in 2023 is over 30 if they can't act like an adult in a group setting then they can go play with their trusts in the corner.
Respectfully, I just don't believe you. You can't say "fast lane" and "big *** damage", go hard or go home and then say "make sure people understand...". I've just never seen that kind of behavior from a DD.
I will say this, and it's totally just my anecdotal experience so sue me if you disagree: In my 20+ years of FFXI, I have never once had a heavy DD lead a run or be the person that people go to have mechanics or strategies explained.
Sorry. Not Sorry.
[+]
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10366
By Asura.Saevel 2023-07-05 18:39:07
Nah I saw it on Lakshmi back in 04 and 05. Asura just has such a large population that repeat offenders can disappear into the crowd and resurface in a different group. The other servers are so famished for people that a bad actor sticks out and has nowhere to disappear to, so they move to the big city.
[+]
By Felgarr 2023-07-05 18:44:29
As a DD since 2004, let's address these problems.
1. This isn't a DD issue. It's a stupid person issue. Stupid people need to be told to bring the right items, and if stupid people still don't bring those items and use them when they were told, they are stupid and should be left out.
2. Again, not a DD issue, it's a stupid person issue. Most players, no matter what the job, would have the common sense to wait for buffs before they engage a big nasty.
3. And again, not a DD issue. Doesn't matter what kind of DD you are, if you are weak, you stay the hell back out of range and don't fight anything until you are unweak, because you're not contributing anything with your weak arse damage anyway.
4. And, and again, not a DD issue. This player needs to be told not once, not twice, but at least three times before you even get to Botulus how to handle the mechanic. If they still can't get it right, don't let them in your party.
5. And, and, and again, not a DD issue. And they may not be an idiot this time, because they likely assumed that they needed to click on it to warp somewhere. Sortie has many mechanics. The leader should sufficiently tell players what they should and shouldn't do. In this case, they will learn from it. If not, because they do it again, then they are an idiot.
You seem to have banded players who don't think with "meathead DD", which isn't remotely the same thing. For me, a "meathead DD" is someone who constantly zergs, pulls hate from their tank, dies, and then blames the tank & healer for a consequence they could have avoided by simply putting on a -DT set, turning, and then waiting for their time to shine again. None of those problems you listed falls under this description.
It is within your right to argue semantically that these are not necessarily DD-specific problems. I can totally see that. But why do these "non-DD-issues" ....seem to recurringly originate from players who (1) play heavy DDs and (2) also have a tendency to share the parse at the end of the run. :)
If WAR is spamming upheaval against Light-weak mobs, using TP Bonus War Cries efficiently, wearing DT in their Engaged sets, watching their hate spikes or hate resets, they're probably doing a good chunk of their job well, but then why do the above issues almost never originate from players who can cast aren't heavy DDs, or players who can cast Sneak/Invisible on themselves? Or CORs who sub NIN, still a DD, but they manage to arrive prepared.
I do see the virtue of your argument, but if you do as you say, then you certainly set a high bar that some of the other heavy DDs out there are failing to maintain.
Cerberus.Kylos
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4753
By Cerberus.Kylos 2023-07-05 18:46:00
In my 20+ years of FFXI, I have never once had a heavy DD lead a run or be the person that people go to have mechanics or strategies explained.
Huh?? You clearly haven't run with many good leaders. I've lead countless alliances as the main DD, and some of the best players I have ever known were some of the strongest DD. They knew all about strategy and how jobs work. You weirdly have this idea that someone who specializes in damage dealing has no brains, like we're steroid using, jacked up musclemen who couldn't figure out 2+2 with a calculator. That's very far from true.
[+]
By Dodik 2023-07-05 18:49:52
Lol.. it's not the job, it's the player.
It's not a DD problem, it's a person problem. Do they tend to be dds? Sure, 18/24 jobs are.
On small servers those people stop getting invites. Then they move to Asura.
Now you know.
Cerberus.Kylos
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4753
By Cerberus.Kylos 2023-07-05 18:50:33
As a DD since 2004, let's address these problems.
1. This isn't a DD issue. It's a stupid person issue. Stupid people need to be told to bring the right items, and if stupid people still don't bring those items and use them when they were told, they are stupid and should be left out.
2. Again, not a DD issue, it's a stupid person issue. Most players, no matter what the job, would have the common sense to wait for buffs before they engage a big nasty.
3. And again, not a DD issue. Doesn't matter what kind of DD you are, if you are weak, you stay the hell back out of range and don't fight anything until you are unweak, because you're not contributing anything with your weak arse damage anyway.
4. And, and again, not a DD issue. This player needs to be told not once, not twice, but at least three times before you even get to Botulus how to handle the mechanic. If they still can't get it right, don't let them in your party.
5. And, and, and again, not a DD issue. And they may not be an idiot this time, because they likely assumed that they needed to click on it to warp somewhere. Sortie has many mechanics. The leader should sufficiently tell players what they should and shouldn't do. In this case, they will learn from it. If not, because they do it again, then they are an idiot.
You seem to have banded players who don't think with "meathead DD", which isn't remotely the same thing. For me, a "meathead DD" is someone who constantly zergs, pulls hate from their tank, dies, and then blames the tank & healer for a consequence they could have avoided by simply putting on a -DT set, turning, and then waiting for their time to shine again. None of those problems you listed falls under this description.
It is within your right to argue semantically that these are not necessarily DD-specific problems. I can totally see that. But why do these "non-DD-issues" ....seem to recurringly originate from players who (1) play heavy DDs and (2) also have a tendency to share the parse at the end of the run. :)
If WAR is spamming upheaval against Light-weak mobs, using TP Bonus War Cries efficiently, wearing DT in their Engaged sets, watching their hate spikes or hate resets, they're probably doing a good chunk of their job well, but then why do the above issues almost never originate from players who can cast aren't heavy DDs, or players who can cast Sneak/Invisible on themselves? Or CORs who sub NIN, still a DD, but they manage to arrive prepared.
I do see the virtue of your argument, but if you do as you say, then you certainly set a high bar that some of the other heavy DDs out there are failing to maintain.
Again, having lead events for about 15 years now? Give or take. I've played with White Mages who didn't know how to fast cast. I've played with Geomancers who don't know how bubbles work. I've played with Bards who don't know the basics of singing. I've played with Scholars who had no idea what Tabula Rasa is. I've played with Tanks who use only one set and wonder why they die. Idiocy comes in all forms, by any player on any job in the game.
Yes, some DDs can be idiots, but it's not a specific condition exclusive to them. Even the smartest players can do dumb things sometimes. My group can confirm this, lol. Some days I am on the ball. Other times, not so much. And then you have players who just aren't bright. They don't read. They need to be told, again, and again, until they finally get it. You just have to hope people can learn from mistakes.
Carbuncle.Nynja
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6625
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2023-07-05 18:51:25
As a DD since 2004, let's address these problems.
1. This isn't a DD issue. It's a stupid person issue. Stupid people need to be told to bring the right items, and if stupid people still don't bring those items and use them when they were told, they are stupid and should be left out.
2. Again, not a DD issue, it's a stupid person issue. Most players, no matter what the job, would have the common sense to wait for buffs before they engage a big nasty.
3. And again, not a DD issue. Doesn't matter what kind of DD you are, if you are weak, you stay the hell back out of range and don't fight anything until you are unweak, because you're not contributing anything with your weak arse damage anyway.
4. And, and again, not a DD issue. This player needs to be told not once, not twice, but at least three times before you even get to Botulus how to handle the mechanic. If they still can't get it right, don't let them in your party.
5. And, and, and again, not a DD issue. And they may not be an idiot this time, because they likely assumed that they needed to click on it to warp somewhere. Sortie has many mechanics. The leader should sufficiently tell players what they should and shouldn't do. In this case, they will learn from it. If they do it again on another run, then they are an idiot. Which means its an Asura issue, because Asura is where all the stupid people go.
[+]
Hello fellow FFXI players!
I've been away from FFXI for most of 2023 and I've noticed a prevailing attitude among certain types of FFXI players. I think it's always existed, but maybe has gotten worse in recent time. I noticed that many (DD) players approach the game (those who still play FFXI after a recent player drop), seem to have a common approach towards the games objectives, regardless of their party composition and regardless of who they are playing with.
To be blunt, I see a complete lack of regard for the game's mechanics and these folks tend to approach objectives with total reckless abandonment. Very often, the consequences of their actions fall upon the other party members to correct and to say it's a thankless job, is an understatement. Unfortunately, I don't believe that being oblivious to consequences relinquishes you from blame. This also may come as a shock, but being #1 on the parse doesn't make up for your impairment on the group's overall effectiveness.
Let's be clear for a moment. I'm not talking about honest mistakes from players who genuinely want to learn or improve. For one, I have a tremendous amount of patience for people who want to learn or put in effort or are striving to be better.
If what I'm saying still isn't clear, here are some of my favorite, most memorable moments:
Problem: DD in Sortie regularly refuses to use meds/oils/powders and flagrantly aggros mobs as the group moves from objective to objective.
Consequence: The last person to the Porter/Bitzer is left with your aggro and may not be able to proceed because of mob's hitting them. The person who is expected to sleep these mobs may not have the correct light/dark-element sleep for the unwanted mobs you've so graciously hand-delivered to your group. That person dies and the Sortie group loses time.
Solution: Oils and Prism Powders are ~6000g/stack. Use them and be aware of your surroundings/team mates.
Problem: DD in a hyper-rush to get the boss in any given Sortie objective rushes to be the first one there and over-zealously engages the Boss when buffs aren't ready.
Consequence: You're racing to be the first at a red-light. Pre-maturely engaging the boss can lock folks out who haven't made it there yet (for many different reasons, including but not limited to different kinds of movement-speed gear).
Solution: See #1.
Problem: DD in Omen is weak with yellow HP from having died in the previous floor. No DT set, mass pull in the prior floor. The DD runs into a group of mobs and aggros nearby undead with yellow HP. The Healer told the DD to wait and the DD said "My HP is your problem, not mine!"
Consequence: This should be self-explanatory. You hurt the overall party's progression with your weakness.
Solution: I just don't know what to say, but you should feel bad.
Problem: An ML50 WAR in a sortie run kills Botulus in 40 seconds and is extremely proud of himself. He's aware the objective requires WSes from behind, but he still positions himself at a right angle. The tank is facing Botulus, the ML50 WAR is on the side, and everyone else is correctly facing the back). The WAR's second Upheaval causes Botulus to turn to him and hate isn't ever recovered by the tank. At the next salamander, everyone is inflicted with uncurable poison, dies and we all lose 5 minutes.
Consequence: Botulus's KI is needed to remove this uncurable poison. The WAR's thinking that DPS > all or that More DPS = more time savings actually backfired because there's no way to survive long enough given how potent the uncurable Poison is. To add insult to injury, when the salamander is supposed to be kited, the ML50 WAR opens the fight with Mighty Strikes, while the tank has only issued a single flash.
Solution: I just don't know what solution to offer here, when someone thinks their Weaponskills are kisses from God.
Problem: In a sortie D->H access run, someone clicks the Rematerialize button with 15 minutes remaining.
Consequence: Not having killed all the fomor yet, re-spawning them means the group loses track of what they did/did not kill.
Solution: I just have no words for this one.
To the DD Player who often initiates this wake of self-destruction on their party:
Why is it always someone else's problem? Why are you the way that you are?
What entitles you to have this "not my problem" attitude when you actually need other people to play (most objectives) in this game?
Why does the parse matter so much to you when your support jobs probably hate you after just 1 or 2 runs?
Why diminish the roles of other people in your party with your shenanigans?
Looking for serious, honest and constructive answers. I mean, what can we do to improve collaboration in a game that demands it?
Thanks.
TLDR: It doesn't matter what the demands of the role are, when you hire Will Ferell or Tom Cruise, you're just going to get Will Ferrell or Tom Cruise. Why are DDs still like this? Be better.
|
|
