|
|
Gaol: Unplayable content because of lag
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 266
By Asura.Aburaage 2021-02-25 18:48:25
I have experienced beyond normal lag today in Odyssey Sheol C. Not this exact situation, but noticed strange lag myself.
Dual boxing PLD + WHM in sheol c, my WHM alt had little to no lag at all, everything was fine.
Main char, PLD was a different story. Took about 2 minutes for anyone to load in, I never received buffs from party, similar to Mireu where you can't target anyone.
No mobs spawned in outside of 1 instance. 15 minutes into the 30 minute timer my inventory STILL never loaded up. While this was happening my main char, the PLD only received half the Segments the whole party got. This bug/lag prevented me getting segments from kills. My party was having no issues at all and could see me perfectly fine, but I couldn't see them or any mobs.
I tried logging out mid-run and seeing if it would make it better. Nope. It got even worse and got to the point I couldn't even buff myself, I couldn't set blu spells, I couldn't see party chat, tells or nothing.
While this was happening on main char, the alt WHM was perfectly fine as an fyi. So for this to happen on 1 instance, but not another is dumb. Never had lag this bad, not even in Gaol. Shame our 1 day lockout segment farming got *** cos of a nice lag/glitch.
Maybe unrelated, but now it's also happening to me outside of odyssey in normal city zone, got DC'd, when I tried logging back in it says
Error Code: FFXI-3113
Protocol time out error
probably server dying lol
[+]
 Asura.Gotenn
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 243
By Asura.Gotenn 2021-02-25 19:09:05
I might try later to see if I change a VPN to a JP server if the lag is better, latency in general will be longer, but if I dont get he packet issues then its worth it.
So I did use ExpressVPN to Tokyo, and while latency existed, the 6-7 second delay in seeing your actions did not. When I poped Velocity Shot, it was instant.
[+]
 Bahamut.Popeh
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
By Bahamut.Popeh 2021-02-25 20:39:22
I might try later to see if I change a VPN to a JP server if the lag is better, latency in general will be longer, but if I dont get he packet issues then its worth it.
So I did use ExpressVPN to Tokyo, and while latency existed, the 6-7 second delay in seeing your actions did not. When I poped Velocity Shot, it was instant.
Tried using ExpressVPN in UK, kept randomly and frequently dropping connection whichever route I tried.
Asura.Hya
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 282
By Asura.Hya 2021-02-25 21:29:50
I might try later to see if I change a VPN to a JP server if the lag is better, latency in general will be longer, but if I dont get he packet issues then its worth it.
So I did use ExpressVPN to Tokyo, and while latency existed, the 6-7 second delay in seeing your actions did not. When I poped Velocity Shot, it was instant. I just got finished with a T2 +15 run with awful lag, and should've gone to bed. But I had to try this first. Signed up for just a month, $12 is nothing to throw away on a test like this.
I am located in Ohio, US and experience the standard 5+ second odyssey sheol gaol lag, even in the lobby. Popped on ExpressVPN, connected to Tokyo, and jumped into the lobby on Goal solo. My R is jumping between 1900-2800 as per usual. But I am experiencing only minor input lag. Maybe half a second. Gearswaps are functioning correctly also, not just leaving me in midcast gear. I can reliably chain cast spells/JA without the 6+ second lag.
Granted this is one test for 5 minutes in the lobby by myself. But it's far far better an experience than I have had since the release of the content. Next time my group does an NM I will be sure to attempt to reproduce these results and report back.
[+]
By GlassyCraver 2021-02-26 06:40:03
People are still surprised that SE doesn't care as long as JP players are ok?
By SimonSes 2021-02-26 06:56:50
I might try later to see if I change a VPN to a JP server if the lag is better, latency in general will be longer, but if I dont get he packet issues then its worth it.
So I did use ExpressVPN to Tokyo, and while latency existed, the 6-7 second delay in seeing your actions did not. When I poped Velocity Shot, it was instant. I just got finished with a T2 +15 run with awful lag, and should've gone to bed. But I had to try this first. Signed up for just a month, $12 is nothing to throw away on a test like this.
I am located in Ohio, US and experience the standard 5+ second odyssey sheol gaol lag, even in the lobby. Popped on ExpressVPN, connected to Tokyo, and jumped into the lobby on Goal solo. My R is jumping between 1900-2800 as per usual. But I am experiencing only minor input lag. Maybe half a second. Gearswaps are functioning correctly also, not just leaving me in midcast gear. I can reliably chain cast spells/JA without the 6+ second lag.
Granted this is one test for 5 minutes in the lobby by myself. But it's far far better an experience than I have had since the release of the content. Next time my group does an NM I will be sure to attempt to reproduce these results and report back.
If that will really be proven right for more people when going with group then its really suspicious lol
1. JP has no lag
2. No lag when signal comes from JP VPN server
Seriously its like they have some coding that check from where you are playing and push different signal abroad and different to JP? >.>
By Thunderjet 2021-02-26 07:00:18
Check out mudfish before i took a break it fixed many of my issues i went from 400 ping to 144, according to mudfish statistics, and that's in odyssey C, seriously this thing is not a scam unlike the vpn's i think its programed differently https://mudfish.net/
Shiva.Thorny
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2202
By Shiva.Thorny 2021-02-26 08:23:43
If that will really be proven right for more people when going with group then its really suspicious lol
1. JP has no lag
2. No lag when signal comes from JP VPN server
Seriously its like they have some coding that check from where you are playing and push different signal abroad and different to JP? >.>
Not just that, but since the VPN is likely not changing your actual packet travel time significantly, it specifically rules out issues that scale with delivery time like you'd theorized earlier. If 230ms through VPN results in no visible latency, but 270ms without it has seconds of latency.. that's about as close to proof as you're going to get that something is rigged up in favor of JP players.
 Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2021-02-26 08:28:01
You know the actual scandal that would be
By RadialArcana 2021-02-26 08:58:56
It really just feels like the module they made for locking out trusts and jobs isn't working properly, or demands a response in a set amount of time that isn't being met by overseas players with bad routing.
It also probably lags more if you have more trusts. If you took a character in with a handful of trust and only 3 99 jobs you probably get near no lag, as opposed to someone with all trusts and all jobs at 99.
[+]
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 325
By Asura.Biglovin 2021-02-26 10:40:28
From one of my long time friends in Japan. SE has it working as intended.
[+]
Asura.Botosi
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 375
By Asura.Botosi 2021-02-26 11:31:32
It really just feels like the module they made for locking out trusts and jobs isn't working properly, or demands a response in a set amount of time that isn't being met by overseas players with bad routing.
It also probably lags more if you have more trusts. If you took a character in with a handful of trust and only 3 99 jobs you probably get near no lag, as opposed to someone with all trusts and all jobs at 99.
Got a lot of lag when using trusts on T1-T2. Since being 6/6 on T3’s I’ve had 0 lag. Even been quadboxing gaol with minimal lag.
My bet is it’s trusts.
Asura.Hya
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 282
By Asura.Hya 2021-02-26 11:55:41
It really just feels like the module they made for locking out trusts and jobs isn't working properly, or demands a response in a set amount of time that isn't being met by overseas players with bad routing.
It also probably lags more if you have more trusts. If you took a character in with a handful of trust and only 3 99 jobs you probably get near no lag, as opposed to someone with all trusts and all jobs at 99.
Got a lot of lag when using trusts on T1-T2. Since being 6/6 on T3’s I’ve had 0 lag. Even been quadboxing gaol with minimal lag.
My bet is it’s trusts. I experience the same lag whether I am in a full group of players or solo with 5 trusts. If you go back a bit in the thread you will see a few conflicting reports. Most have reported having lag on their characters who have access to many trusts, and lesser lag on alts that have fewer trusts. One player reports lag despite only having 30ish trusts, while another says he had nearly every trust in the game but no lag. It's all over the place.
By RadialArcana 2021-02-26 12:03:54
I have a near a hundred trusts (most are never used for anything).
I was getting crazy lag, 5-6 seconds.
I called each trust and then dismissed with retr all(wasted a lot of time doing this and was obnoxious with the lag), to lock them out till there were none left.
When I had 0 trusts in my list (and had the last 5 trusts out) I had near no lag and was using weapon skills and skill chaining just fine. It didn't seem to get better until I had blacked out most of my trusts.
If you are in a group and use no trusts it still has to keep track of them all, in-case you do. It seems to track the trusts you are allowed to call instead of the ones you have used. So if you use none, then it has to track them all. There is also probably constant checking to make sure people are not using hax to unlock them afterwards when they already used them.
They should just add an option to disable ALL trusts when you go in if you're in a group, and let you pick from a pool of 15? or so when you enter and intend to use them so it does not need to keep track of hundreds of them.
From my one test, it does seem to be linked to the trust lockout system they added but it's difficult for me to repeat this over and over.
By SimonSes 2021-02-26 12:39:36
Why is none of JP having lag then? They all have no trusts? Why same person using normal connection has 6sec lag, then have no lag when using vpn to connect from Tokyo? Why some people on same char once have huge lag and other time have almost no lag. I don't think it's one thing. It's a mix of few things probably and there is for sure something with JP players being in much better situation for some reason.
By RadialArcana 2021-02-26 12:44:11
Possibly because they have anti cheat systems in place for western players to track trusts far more often and not have it for JP players? since we are almost always the cause of cheating (not all, but most of it)
Just guessing, could also be something linked to longer respond times making it time out and continually repeat the checks. I dunno.
I can't even say for certain if this is it, I had far less lag after I removed them all but it could of been due to something else since it took so long I didn't have much time to test and I can't really repeat this over and over.
By Shichishito 2021-02-26 13:26:20
what about the trusts addon, could that be the cause?
You know the actual scandal that would be western RMT should sue SE for loss of income.
 Ragnarok.Kenshi
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 123
By Ragnarok.Kenshi 2021-02-26 13:45:44
Did anyone try the japanese client to check if the lag goes away?
By Ruaumoko 2021-02-26 14:16:30
Tried ExpressVPN to Tokyo and it still did not resolve the issue. Oh well, can still use the service for a month to get around regional blocks.
Remarkable it's taking this long unless they have legitimately no idea what is causing the problem. Either way an ackowledgement of the issue under "Current Known Issues" would go a long way...
[+]
[+]
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-26 16:34:13
I know this is probably at the point of extreme game tampering, but is there actually a way to completely block that trust spell list packet from ever being received? I know when you click the vortex, the lag stops because the client tells the game you are in a menu and unable to receive trust list. Is there a way to emulate this functionality to trick the game into believing you are in a menu or otherwise performing an action that nullifies the packet list in question?? In theory, of course. Not sure what impact that kind of add-on would have on battle actions.
 Asura.Sechs
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9896
By Asura.Sechs 2021-02-26 17:02:17
WIRESHARK!
Seriously now, I entered Gaol around 20ish times and my lag has been pretty consistant. Around 10-15 seconds of delay.
Targets jump/warp around points, my inventory gets stuck on an endless loading, HP doesn't often update correctly (several times I saw targets dying with their HP still at 71% on my screen), I see people engaged in wrong directions and meleeing from 40+ yalms away, blah blah.
And this happened each and every one of the times I entered.
My routing goes from Italy to France, then US, then JP.
I have all trusts and all spells in game.
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 291
By Shiva.Kasaioni 2021-02-26 21:58:03
Did Gaol for the first time today and it was like 3k receiving at all times, 5-6 seconds of lag on all spells and abilities. Impossible to play. It was this laggy both with and without trusts.
[+]
Asura.Sechs
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9896
By Asura.Sechs 2021-02-27 06:11:55
When the que is low for entry this is what we do. If we zone in and the lag is horrible in the staging area we warp out. Repeat until we don't have the lag. Not the best work around but its better than losing a ki due to 5-10 second lag between actions. It doesn't consume a ki until you pick a nm and warp up. I don't think this method would work.
With our static we have 1 person who never has lag, 2 who have variable but overall playable lag, and 3 others who have always unplayable conditions.
As I mentioned I have close to 15 seconds lag and all the beautiful stuff I mentioned above, and it's like this every single time I zone into Gaeol, not a bloody single difference between each attempt.
Did Gaol for the first time today and it was like 3k receiving at all times, 5-6 seconds of lag on all spells and abilities. Impossible to play. It was this laggy both with and without trusts. Wish it was 5-6 seconds for me! I could probably play with 5-6 seconds of lag! :-D
By RadialArcana 2021-02-27 06:19:20
It's not using trusts that's the problem, it's just having them unlocked.
 Asura.Tamoa
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1341
By Asura.Tamoa 2021-02-27 07:35:14
I did gaol for the first time last night. 6 min 20 seconds from entering before my inventory loaded. 95% of the time there was nothing in chat log and no animation to show I was casting or performing any kind of action at all. I just spammed curaga2 and 3 and an erase here and there and prayed.
(Edit: we won, no deaths)
[+]
By SimonSes 2021-02-27 07:51:08
I did gaol for the first time last night. 6 min 20 seconds from entering before my inventory loaded. 95% of the time there was nothing in chat log and no animation to show I was casting or performing any kind of action at all. I just spammed curaga2 and 3 and an erase here and there and prayed.
Seriously I wish someone just show such gameplay into developers faces and ask "wtf?"
[+]
By RadialArcana 2021-02-27 09:01:21
I did gaol for the first time last night. 6 min 20 seconds from entering before my inventory loaded. 95% of the time there was nothing in chat log and no animation to show I was casting or performing any kind of action at all. I just spammed curaga2 and 3 and an erase here and there and prayed.
Seriously I wish someone just show such gameplay into developers faces and ask "wtf?"
The problem is:
1: They probably can't replicate this, cause it seems to be mainly a western problem. So they have to try figure out what is going on without being able to see it in operation. This requires a load of information to be built up first.
2: They have a roadmap of stuff they are also supposed to be working on with new content (whether you like what they do or not, they still have normal work to do when they are on the clock), they can't just say no update this month cause we fixed this gaol thing most players don't even do.
The community team are trying to make as much information as they can to pass to them, so when they do make time (most likely in overtime) they can look into it. If I had to bet they aren't even really looking into it at all yet and everything is on the community team people to build a bug case.
So gameplay lag has become a big issue for most of the players in my circle, and it seems to be somehow just accepted and not challenged much. Whether this is because in Japan the effects are not as bad or even noticeable we don't know.
Lag can be caused by a lot of things, but I think it's important here to separate a few major types.
1. Lag caused by your gaming setup, poor performance PC or internet connection.
2. Lag caused by congestion at the SE end, exacerbated by your distance from the servers.
Ever since D-Dyna introduced the ranking system where you had the on-screen counter for your rank items, it seems SE have reached a server side limit where lag is unavoidable even on the fastest internet and PC.
You can just about live with it in d-dyna but it kills the fun of being able to react and play well like we've learned to do in older content areas (stunning a TP moves, re-casting utsusemi, curing someone about to die etc).
Then Odyssey came out and right from the get-go similar lag exists in the Sheol A, B and C areas. A good test of lag is to do an emote to another player and see how long it takes to show in the log. D-Dyna and Sheol seem to be 1-2s extra lag than normal, but sometimes even worse for certain players.
Now we have Gaol and the lag has gone off the charts. We enter with 6 players and some like myself can get lucky and see a 1-2s lag only in the waiting area, while others see 6s lag for any action, and inventory doesn't load fully even after 3 minutes of waiting.
I was most surprised to see it can even be drastically different for 2 chars in the same household. I run my main on an AMD 5950 processor and AMD 6800XT GPU (yes I paid through the teeth for that). My 2nd char is on a 1950x threadripper and Titan X maxwell GPU (no slouch) and yet this char consistently gets the 6s lag in Gaol. Both chars on the same 350Mb fibre internet (Virgin in the UK).
A few in our LS have pretty much done everything we want to do in this game, beaten the master trials, got all the REMAs we need and R15d them, and we've been pinning our hopes on new content to keep our favourite pastime going.
Gaol seems really interesting and challenging, exactly what we need right now, but we can't play it. We go in and attempt to guess when to chuck out a cure or erase, people jump about all over the place due to update lag, it's just not possible to do anything but put your best gear on and luck your way through a win.
I read today the accepted bug report listed here:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/57736-Abnormal-connection-behavior-within-Odyssey-battle-content-Sheol-Gaol
Which brings up the capped network bandwidth size which is getting trounced inside Goal areas. I hadn't even considered SE might be trying to push more data than their own cap allows since I would have expected that to affect JP players the same way, but maybe it doesn't somehow.
Anyway, if SE do not address this and soon (including fixing the extra lag in d-dyna and sheol) then I think it will force me to finally retire from the game, as it has now become a key skill to predict actions ahead of lag (anyone ever run into a d-dyna statue cos it hadn't loaded yet?).
I don't see a lot of talk about this issue outside of the game so wanted to just dump all my moans here about it now and see what others think. Also other than bombard the official forums with new bug reports (since you can't reply to existing ones to support them, only up-vote), how can we get SE to wake up to it?
|
|
