Mnk H2H Choices

Has anyone compared h2h choices since emp+3 was released?

I recall some dps data demonstrating vere R15 leads with impetus, godhands R15 leads with footwork, and that spharai spamming final heaven at 1k TP was only like 7-8% behind these options. I've always liked what spharai offers for counter sets, but im interested to see how big the dps hit is these days

7-8% is a lot. I only have godhands and use them for everything. They're fine. Anyone that says you can't do Gogmagog, Henwen, Gigelorum, or Ngai if you don't have Vere is a verified retard.

You dont need Godhands to kill them too, so what's exactly your point?

My point is there are a lot of rtards on Asura that won't let you join any of them without Vere, but I've done them all with Godhands.

You can do them all with karambit, su5, spharai, glanz, anything 119.

Slow/lazy/halfassed are bigger dps losses than any specific weapon.

Requesting the best onry minimizes risk but doesn't negate it. They're just playing the odds. The one willing to do the most effort intensive weapon is the least likely to use it badly (but not guaranteed).

I don't have any numbers to validate this, but many many years ago i was an avid R15 Spharai user while making my Verethragna and Godhands. I also heavily invested in counter sets because i thought they were neat/niche/cool. I would like to spare you the trouble of wasting your time here. Counter sets have the least practical value of any of the defensive skills (parry, third eye, [retaliate], block, evasion, copy image) and Spharai/Final Heaven never got a h2h update where all the other skills did. It was far behind easily accessible options back then (5+ years ago) and it's either in the exact same spot now or even further behind. The moment i made Verethragna or Godhands i never equipped Spharai ever again.

This is one of those "trust me bro" moments.

To be fair they did acknowledge the issues with Final Heaven but they replied that they didn't fix Final Heaven on purpose because they were going to do a large scale fixing to ALL of the Relic WS and that Final Heaven would've been fixed then.

Then a long time passed and nothing happened. Guess they did change plans or something, who knows.


Either way can test the performance of sets with different weapons on the old Spreadsheet by SimonSes or on the new DPS calculator by Izanami.
I wouldn't be overly surprised to see Sagitta actually come above Spharai R15 lol.

Yeah they fixed Relic weaponskills by adding Primes.

That's funny but it might actually be.
My idea is that back then when they gave that reply they were still trying to define what Prime Weapons would've been, and during that stage maybe they were imagining Relic Weapons being a "basic" ingredient to make Primes.

Then they changed plans and made Primes, likely, more powerful than they were intended back then and the rest is history.


I mean this is purely a conjecture on my side but it's not so strange to be ruled out.

They actually never said they would fix all relic weaponskills at a later time. Can go back and check their exact wording. But i think they said something to the effect of "if we were to ever address final Heaven, we'd prefer to do all relic WS at the same time". Most people (myself included) assumed that meant a relic WS update was coming, but it was misinterpreted by many. As mentioned, they probably already had plans for Primes at some point and figured an overhaul was worthless when they can just release a longer grind and better weapons reusing the same assets.

It's still coming, please look forward to it. Make sure you stay subbed so you don't miss it.

I can sum it up, but I'm too tired for details.

Assuming no skillchains. Godhands with Footwork and Tornado are slightly better than Veret with Impetus and Vsmite. Godhands are far ahead if you add savagery warcry.
Godhands are by far bis if you don't have impetus or footwork and are not that far behind impetus Veret even without Footwork.
Prime stage 5 seems to be break even with Veret during Impetus.

Godhands are by far the most versatile and overall best weapons for monk. I can't say how close or far are Prime stage 5 using Prime WS, because there is not enough details to calculate it.

i don't think the hierarchy changed much, but relic ws were significantly improved by the addition of so mucch wsd equipment, including nyame and empy +3. mnk of course doesn't usually care much for wsd, but if you're going to be turtling up anyway its nice to have final heaven do a fair bit more than it used to.

Oh I forgot. Sphairai is far behind and counter is generally useless in most of recent endgame, because NMs either hit with magic auto attacks or have AoE physical auto attacks, so you can't counter any of them.

Monk, especially with godhands has the biggest delay between rounds from all melee jobs, so that feeling should be natural. MNK TP sets are very complicated, because it really depends if you need highest meva or not.

Are you adding in extra MA when using Godhands?

Mache Earring+1 will cap delay for Godhands as you need 12.48 over what you get as a Mastered MNK.

Interested in confirmation, default WS for the following situations (not considering SCs):

Godhands with Footwork up: Tornado Kick
Godhands with Footwork down & Impetus down: Howling Fist
Godhands with Footwork down & Impetus up: V.Smite, or still Howling?

Is there ever a practical reason to use Raging Fists over Howling with Godhands?

Tornado Kick is better than Howling (without Footwork), unless you want that attack bonus from Howling, which tbh might be often, considering that fact bis Howling/Tornado sets are really PDL heavy and we have Aria now too. Howling with bis set including PDL beats Tornado without PDL.

I also need to correct myself a little.


It is pretty far behind without Footwork against impetus Veret/S5Prime, still significantly bis for both impetus and footwork down.

I dont suppose you have any DPS numbers to get a feel for how much ahead/behind we are talking in these scenarios?

It would really depends on buffs and if you can cap attack, but in general with capped attack regular Aria, 70 stp sam roll, boost-str, high ML, /drg:

no impetus/footwork:
Godhands+Tornado ~13100 dps
Godhands+Howling ~11900 dps
Veret+Vsmite ~11000 dps
PrimeS5 ~10450

Footwork:
Godhands+Tornado ~16100 dps
Godhands+Tornado+Savagery ~20300
Godhands+Howling ~12800 dps
Godhands+Howling+Savagery ~16100 dps

Impetus:
Veret+Vsmite ~15000 dps
PrimeS5 ~14900 dps

Something like that

Well it’s been a while since I’ve played but this discussion has me curious. What’s the general consensus for if you’re skillchaining? Whenever I use MNK I’m usually high-buffed and will typically spam 4-steps; Asuran > Raging > Victory > Victory. This is my bread and butter for DPS if I’m the sole DD and I usually always just use Vereth.

In this instance, is that ok? Or would using GH and aiming for a 4-Step Radiance be better overall? Or does it not really even matter if skillchaining because of damage caps?

I use godhands mostly and do radiance, Shijin spiral > Victory smite > Victory smite when impetus is up and Howling fist when impetus is down. Stuff usually is dead or almost dead after radiance.

If you are zerging with both Footwork and Impetus up, then Asuran > Tornado > Dragon > Victory with Godhands is probably by far the strongest option. It also doesn't care about WS wall, since all WSs are different.

worth considering resistance as well

Thanks! That is a bigger difference than I thought it would be. 20k DPS with footwork/warcry/savagery is nuts

yea mnk is as strong as ever, just not as popular these days because they aren't required for stuff like segments or sortie

Tbh some other jobs can go much further with dps, especially with Savagery/Aria on.


EDIT: Ok maybe not. At least not without SPs. Most highest DPS options will be around that 20-21k dps too I think. I dont have updated SAM sheet, maybe it could be higher. That being said MNK can really only touch dps like that with Footwork and has no SPs that will push it higher, while some other jobs can maintain that dps for longer and push it even higher with SPs.