On Healing Hands - A Comprehensive WHM Guide (v3)

Language: JP EN DE FR
New Items
2022-08-11
329 users online
Forum » FFXI » Jobs » White Mage » On Healing Hands - A Comprehensive WHM Guide (v3)
On Healing Hands - A Comprehensive WHM Guide (v3)
First Page 2 3 ... 16 17 18
 Asura.Pergatory
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Pergatory
Posts: 1206
By Asura.Pergatory 2020-07-12 11:12:57
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I very much agree about Raetic+1 being a poor recommendation as the only alternative to Queller's Rod.

I get why people use it, they like big cures and I'm not opposed to having Raetic+1 in the guide, but the simple fact is that it's NOT efficient. You pay massively increased MP, and gain a very small bonus to your Cure.

Can it still be free? Yes. Will it always be? Well, when was the last time you cast a capped Cure 3 or 4? These days, it's pretty rare to be capped.

So what really matters isn't that you can still make your cure free because of course you can, it's whether your Cures fall on useful tiers that are efficient for you to use. Raetic shifts those tiers. That's all it does, you can no longer cast a Cure on the ~40mp point, you have to spend 30 or 50. And it doesn't do so very efficiently, as you can see from the testing above where the increases are far short of 30% on cures that you would actually use.

I get that people like Raetic+1 and have success using it but to represent it as the only alternative to Queller is just poor guidance especially when all the best WHM's I know use Chatoyant.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 1273
By FaeQueenCory 2020-07-12 11:46:24
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Pergatory said: »
when all the best WHM's I know use Chatoyant.
That's really the key thing. Rhaetic is fine and all and an arguable improvement over something like Queller "This is my First Day on WHM" Rod.

But nothing really can compete or compare with Chatoyant (at this time, if ever).
 Asura.Epigram
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: jlisic
Posts: 113
By Asura.Epigram 2020-07-12 12:40:58
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I think it's a bit more complicated.

Nothing beats raetic +1 for Cure I. Everything else is pretty situational. It's also pretty good for Cura spam when you're in misery and want something that can go a bit further.

Chatoyant is extremely mp efficient, in particular with Aurora Storm II.

One thing I would like to touch on though, is please let the "WHM's don't run out of MP" myth die. I heard someone mention this in an LS yesterday, about not having to cast refresh III on the WHM, because if they are any good they won't run out of mp.

There are lots of ways to run out of mp as a WHM when just curing.
One example is if you only have two people taking high damage AoEs from the mob. Spamming Curaga III is going to drain you (particularly when you are removing debuffs and don't have time to single target). Crappy DD's without DT/Hybrid sets will kill your mp. Poor PT positioning will kill your MP (way to go player hanging out on the other side of Omen Bosses missing the Curaga).

In general, there is always a conflict between MP efficiency and time for cures. Experience will help you get better at judging the trade off, but Arise is a 300MP penalty for waiting too long trying to be MP efficient.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 1473
By Nariont 2020-07-12 13:10:06
Link | Quote | Reply
 
personally only time ive ever ran into mp troubles was when 1 of the following happens

-something is actually sapping mp/gives mp down/curse
-have to spam raise/arise(even with a cmp build this can cause a strain if it goes on long enough with no refresh support)
-blowing mp of buffs/debuffs for an extended period or just doing a full cure for fun

cures tend to be the least costly unless i am just overcuring, or i just forget sublimation/cap it too early without noticing due to getting hit
[+]
 Asura.Saevel
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8572
By Asura.Saevel 2020-07-12 13:20:28
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Sillyness is silly.

What Raetic +1 does is shift heals down a tier, Cure IV rarely ever gets used along with Curaga IV. Instead almost all healing is Cure II / III and Curaga II with the occasional Curaga III if something bad just happened.

On WHM's MP, they shouldn't ever run out of MP if just healing. LA and conserve MP lowers the cost of spells while the battery exists to replenish whatever MP gets spent in the first place. Raising dead people is the big MP killer and the GEO should be using their radial to solve that problem should it arise.

Of course there are idiots thinking Cure V/VI/Curaga V are good ideas, and if they don't listen we just remove them from the group.

I would absolutely kill to have access to Raetic +1 on my RDM, as it stands only WHM and SCH can really abuse it.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 6930
By SimonSes 2020-07-12 13:42:46
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Curaga v might not be a good idea often, but I see nothing wrong in cure v and vi. They provide way better cureskin, reducing tp gain by mob significantly. Especially useful for groups based on subtle blow DD jobs including MNK for Chi Blast. Cureskin is one of the best thing WHM has and should be abused as much as possible. With minimal amoumt of refresh (/sch and ballad iii for example) you can keep cureskin for a very long time lossing very little mp. Its also much safer than waiting for hp to drop before you cure.
 Shiva.Xelltrix
Offline
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: Xelltrix
Posts: 393
By Shiva.Xelltrix 2020-07-12 16:22:39
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I have been using Reatic Rod for months and have had absolutely zero mp issues at all that didn't come up from spamming Arise/Protect/Shell. I even ended up muling my Chatoyant Staff because the swap is unnecessary. If you're a new WHM, you're not going to be going for a Raetic anyway and I wouldn't recommend it to them but if you're experienced, there really is no need to lug a Chatoyant Staff around. If you're running out of mp, either you or your party is doing something wrong or it's a very niche environment.


My favorite reason for using it, however, is not having to blink anymore when I cast cures which was incredibly annoying.
 Asura.Pergatory
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Pergatory
Posts: 1206
By Asura.Pergatory 2020-07-14 10:38:11
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Raetic isn't going to make someone who never runs out of MP suddenly start running out of MP. That's not the narrative people should be arguing.

It is going to shift the bar though. They're going to be a little closer to that knife's edge where the MP starts going down, and it'll take a little bit less stress on their casting to make them reach that point.

And for what benefit? Can anyone say using Raetic has ever helped them save a life? Even one? Or does it just mean you sometimes cast Cure III instead of Cure IV?

To me, it's a no-brainer. You accept a measurable efficiency drop for an insignificant gain. That's a bad deal. The WHM's job is to be the final line of defense that does not falter. Anything they can do to ensure they never falter is worth doing, and to me that means avoiding Raetic.

I'm pretty sure the only way I'd ever swap to Raetic+1 is if I started regularly low-manning with a DRK tank. It's the only time I might find myself wishing I had higher tier Cures.
[+]
 Valefor.Yandaime
Offline
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
user: Yandaime
Posts: 703
By Valefor.Yandaime 2020-07-14 10:56:18
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Pergatory said: »
Raetic isn't going to make someone who never runs out of MP suddenly start running out of MP. That's not the narrative people should be arguing.

It is going to shift the bar though. They're going to be a little closer to that knife's edge where the MP starts going down, and it'll take a little bit less stress on their casting to make them reach that point.

And for what benefit? Can anyone say using Raetic has ever helped them save a life? Even one? Or does it just mean you sometimes cast Cure III instead of Cure IV?

To me, it's a no-brainer. You accept a measurable efficiency drop for an insignificant gain. That's a bad deal. The WHM's job is to be the final line of defense that does not falter. Anything they can do to ensure they never falter is worth doing, and to me that means avoiding Raetic.

I'm pretty sure the only way I'd ever swap to Raetic+1 is if I started regularly low-manning with a DRK tank. It's the only time I might find myself wishing I had higher tier Cures.

I agree, Raetic is great and all but I don't really NEED any more cure power especially if it comes at a greater cost. Can I swing it? Sure. But did I ever need it at all? In my runnings? No, never except that DRK tanking thing.
 Asura.Meliorah
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: DatGoose
Posts: 555
By Asura.Meliorah 2020-07-14 11:01:53
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Honestly if we didn't have mystic boon and yagrush I'd say Raetic +1 would probably have a place, but because we have those two things and those two things bounce off eachother very well-- allowing you to throw out full cures and curaga 5 freely that there isn't a reason to have it.

My WHM would melee it up in pretty much everything that allowed it to safely do so, short of a few ambuscade bosses and wave 3 dynamis because of accuracy issues, so MP was rarely ever a concern and cures being free or not free or just dumping full cures for that girthy cureskin was nice.

When not meleeing and subbing Scholar, even with light arts down it's not like you need that extra kick from the CP2 to save anyone, often a cure 3 would take care of any DD and a cure 4 would be enough for whatever tank. The drk running around with his 9,999 HP can just have a full cure.

Refresh is so plentiful on gear tthat it doesn't even matter when you're getting back 9-16/tic without a bard that by the time anyone is in actual danger you're back up to be able to throw your cure 3 again at which point you're setup to continue to throw cure 3 and cure 4 because they're free or close enough to free that the next mp tick is going to just put you in a positive gain.
[+]
 Bahamut.Aldy
Offline
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Aldy
By Bahamut.Aldy 2020-07-14 11:38:12
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Could anyone share their TP and WS sets with Yagrush? What's the best off-hand and what WS do you guys find yourself favoring?
Offline
Posts: 665
By Wotasu 2020-07-15 15:04:06
Link | Quote | Reply
 
WHM DD section has been added, But I would like feedback if it's more or less correct.
Offline
Posts: 1265
By Chimerawizard 2020-07-15 15:37:02
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Realmrazer is a 7hit with copied fTP (0.9 base fTP). would think double fotia + wsd cape would be superior.
the rest seems right to me.
Offline
Posts: 665
By Wotasu 2020-07-15 15:44:40
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Thank you, I'll edit it.
Offline
Posts: 7482
By Afania 2020-07-15 16:50:06
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Shiva.Arislan said: »
Thanks for taking the time to make this!

v2 did a really good job of describing job mechanics, and I'm glad to see v3 share updated gear sets.

IMO, what's been missing is a crash course in "How to play WHM (better)". Particularly things like setting up play environment (chat filters/battlemod, macros/binds, party status icons, fast alliance targeting/party targeting, etc), pre-battle scouting, proper triage, pre-curing, when to drop into misery, divine caress, effective Sacro/Asylum use, etc. WHM has a really high skill/knowledge ceiling, and I feel like that holds people back more than not being min/maxed does.

Rua touched on some of those subjects in his video guide, but having a more detailed text reference would probably help a lot of newer WHMs out.

Just FYI, quite a bit of such info were added to bg community guide months ago, it listed exactly when and how each JA should be used, including common ones from SJ, as well as macro tips and tricks.

It even explained the logic behind spell prioritization which is IMO No.1 key for being successful as a healer.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Community_White_Mage_Guide

Feel free to contribute and make them more complete :) Or if Wotasu wants they can just copy and paste everything onto v3 guide here.


My opinion on raetic is that it gives whm more freedom on SJ choice depending on situations, it's less about efficiency nor cure power obsession v.s staff. Both are viable as long as you can maintain MP and it's just more of a preference on other issues like blinking or recasting storms.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 665
By Wotasu 2020-07-15 17:57:31
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Thank you for that info, I didnt look at that guide since it says it's empty c.c..
I'll most likely steal some stuff! D:<
[+]
 Shiva.Arislan
Offline
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: Arislan
Posts: 1036
By Shiva.Arislan 2020-07-15 20:18:54
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Afania said: »
Just FYI, quite a bit of such info were added to bg community guide months ago, it listed exactly when and how each JA should be used, including common ones from SJ, as well as macro tips and tricks.

It even explained the logic behind spell prioritization which is IMO No.1 key for being successful as a healer.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Community_White_Mage_Guide

Feel free to contribute and make them more complete :) Or if Wotasu wants they can just copy and paste everything onto v3 guide here.

Oh awesome, I always forget to check BG for new/updated guides. Nice work. If I have time, I'll try to contribute.
[+]
 Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget
Offline
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1331
By Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget 2020-07-15 21:56:53
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Technical question here, researching gear for builds, and I think I found a discrepancy on BGwiki.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Ebers_Pant._%2B1

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Yagrush_(Level_119_III)

According to these two pages, the "Enhances Divine Benison effect III" on the Yagrush 119 III and the "Divine Benison +2" on the Ebers Panataloons +1 have the same exact effect? +20% Fast Cast and -10 Enmity?

Also, do -na spells count as "Healing Magic" in regards to the "-13% Healing Magic Casting Time" on the Orison Pantaloons +1? I'm thinking it does since status removal is healing magic technically, and we also already have a stat strictly for "Cure Cast".

Edit for more information.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Divine_Benison

According to this page here, LVL 90+ WHM gets +50% FC and -25 Enmity on all status ailment removal. So, if the pages for both Yagrush 119 III and Ebers Pantaloons +1 are correct, than you cap -enmity and Fast Cast on status ailment removal with just a Yagrush and Ebers Pantaloons +1 Divine Benison Effects.

-25 enmity from trait, -10 from Yagrush 119 III, -10 from Ebers Pantaloons +1, and -5 from any other random source.

+50% Fast Cast from trait, +20% from Yagrush 119 III, +20% from Ebers Pantaloons +1 is already 90% Fast Cast. 10% over the cap.

That's seems like a bit much doesn't it?
[+]
 Shiva.Xelltrix
Offline
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: Xelltrix
Posts: 393
By Shiva.Xelltrix 2020-07-16 08:09:06
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Yeah, I remember testing it myself and I think the numbers are off as well. Never bothered to track all the numbers but it was pretty clear from recast time that it wasn't capped Fast Cast with just those items based off the difference in recast time on spells when I added more Fast Cast gear. Either the numbers are off or it's just casting time and not fast cast at all.
 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1286
By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2020-07-16 08:21:15
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Did you account for the -40% cap on recast reduction from fast cast?
 Odin.Lawii
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: Lawiii
Posts: 28
By Odin.Lawii 2020-07-16 10:04:03
Link | Quote | Reply
 
How about nuke (Light) sets, since we are looking at DD as well.

This is what I am sporting
ItemSet 374415



Kaykaus Tights +1 (D path)
[+]
 Asura.Geriond
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Gerion
Posts: 2895
By Asura.Geriond 2020-07-16 10:13:41
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget said: »
That's seems like a bit much doesn't it?
You'll have to go into more detail than that to say anything is off. SE gives players the tools to overcap on stats all the time, so those three things supposedly resulting in 90% Fast Cast doesn't really mean anything.
 Shiva.Xelltrix
Offline
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: Xelltrix
Posts: 393
By Shiva.Xelltrix 2020-07-16 10:17:41
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
Did you account for the -40% cap on recast reduction from fast cast?

Oh yeah, I forgot about that part. Guess I would have to test the actual cast time then but that's pretty hard to eyeball with how fast status removal spells go off already.
Offline
Posts: 665
By Wotasu 2020-07-16 14:30:25
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Odin.Lawii said: »
How about nuke (Light) sets, since we are looking at DD as well.

This is what I am sporting
ItemSet 374415



Kaykaus Tights +1 (D path)
Thank you for your input I'll add a nuke set as well :)
 Leviathan.Stamos
Offline
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: Stamos
Posts: 1228
By Leviathan.Stamos 2020-07-16 14:42:54
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Cohort probably BiS for whm nuking now, among other things
 Ragnarok.Martel
Offline
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2681
By Ragnarok.Martel 2020-07-16 14:42:56
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Divine magic reeeaaaaly needs some adjustments though.
[+]
 Phoenix.Gennss
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: gennss
Posts: 33
By Phoenix.Gennss 2020-07-16 14:59:16
Link | Quote | Reply
 
wouldnt stinkini +1 be better than metamorph for black halo and realmrazer?
[+]
Offline
Posts: 665
By Wotasu 2020-07-16 14:59:34
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Not if you can use daybreak c.c kinda..
But Pld yes :/
 Odin.Lawii
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: Lawiii
Posts: 28
By Odin.Lawii 2020-07-16 16:10:23
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Wow, I missed those augments on Cohort, I might add that to my list.
 Leviathan.Stamos
Offline
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: Stamos
Posts: 1228
By Leviathan.Stamos 2020-07-16 18:51:02
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Yeah, it is BiS for nuking and enfeebling magic at minimum. Can squeeze it into other things as well. 120 macc with 34 enfeeb/ele is hard to beat.
First Page 2 3 ... 16 17 18
Log in to post.