Sea Torques For Sale

10 str gives 5 ranged attack, 10 agi gives 5 racc

Going from +5 to +7 is a +2 increase.
I was saying +2 in comparison to osode and then osode having +5 fstr 2 in comparison to the 2 attack and 2 acc
I can bold too

I macro swap Osode for WS's.

Hey, I can put things in italics too. =)

Anyway, as I said a moment ago. The parses don't lie. I have parsed many merit parties and Kyudogi is marginally better than Osode for TPing with my situation using a gun. Might not work with everyone's setup, but it's not like I care.

Unlike you, I don't concern myself with what everyone else is doing all the time and argue about it if they're not doing it my way.

You're saying 2 rattack 2 racc > 5 DMG, but then claim 7 rattack > 4 racc? (torque vs pcc)

Flawed logic is flawed

Who cares let people buy or not buy sea torques gdi

Osode is far better than Kyudogi.

That being said, RNG ACP body with R.Attack+10 Snapshot+5 is far better than both.

And Torque for TP, Gorget for WS on RNG.

A) Wasn't talking to you
B) Never told anyone NOT to buy a sea torque
C) The person I WAS talking to already has a sea torque
D) I encourage the use of sea torques when your acc is capped, and was only giving out information that pcc > most torques when acc is uncapped.
E) People can buy all the sea torques or not it's their choice, I'm just giving my opinion so they can make an informed decision as to whether or not they actually want to purchase one instead of thinking "Oh hey torques are automatically best"
F) Wasn't talking to you

We're talking about Osode Vs. Kyudogi.

[Insert witty one liner]



It's not as black and white as that. I will post the parses when it's not 3:30am to give you some food for thought.

Also, the calculations for Marksmanship are different than Bows, I believe. I am pretty sure of this, although I need to experiment more to confirm it. At this moment in time, it is an educated assumption without any real evidence.

Yes, we are, but you also said torque > pcc.

So we have 2 comparisons
7 rattack > 4racc
2 rattack 2 racc > 5 dmg
from what you're saying.

Those two are pretty contradictory if you ask me.

The Torques discussion was posted about five hours ago. Little late to the discussion there, champ.

When you post your parses, the most relavent data is going to be your average dmg/hit and your racc, not the % of the parse you did, as the other players can
A) Step up their game
B) Slack off
and that would have more of an effect on the parse than you changing a piece of gear, but your average dmg/hit and your average acc should show the correct difference between the two, provided you have the same food and buffs for both.

Isn't it fantastic there's open minded people like you around.

"You're wrong, because I say so, despite the fact you may have evidence to suggest otherwise."

Kyudogi will out perform Osode via TP but as he said, it really isnt worth the cost unless you have nothing else better to do with your money. Also, if you have acp body for Rng, Dogi becomes 100% useless imo.

I have not been parsing anyone else in the party's damage. I have only been parsing my own damage with a variety of different setups. It might be a better idea to let me post the parses before you start arguing them with me.

It is that black and white, whether you admit it or not. 5 fSTR2 5 RATK 5 RACC > 7 RATK 7 RACC. Parses are notoriously useless for anything other than epeen due to too many variables that you cannot control for.

It's relevant information.

Just explain how 7 rattack > 4 racc (higher damage/shot, but less acc) but 2rattack rracc > 5 DMG (lower dmg/shot, but more acc).

You saying it 5 hours ago makes no difference. You contradicted yourself.

Thank you for the support, Revision. Nice to see not all Rangers are as close minded as everyone else in this thread.

A-F) Who cares and why so serious?

Doing math = closed minded?

You are so close minded it offends me. You haven't even seen the results of the parse, or my other experiments with the calculation of Marksmanship ranged attacks, and you're already ripping it to shreds.

I am not talking about WSing in Kyudogi; I have already said I swap to Osode for weapon skills.

No, but telling somebody their experiments, results and evidence is wrong before you've even seen it is.

Was referring to TP phase actually, WS ought to be a foregone conclusion. Whether you like it or not parsing remains an inaccurate method to determine what works best. Math doesn't lie.

I'd be offended at you calling me of all people closed-minded, but it's too amusing for me to do so.

Somebody who enters a discussion and goes around telling people they are wrong, before seeing the point they have to make, is close minded.

It's nice that you think you're not a close minded individual. I approve of that. But start acting like it.

In regards to "Math doesn't lie.", yes it does. The hard maths of statistics don't lie, but all the attributing factors to a parse, the situation you're parsing, etc, will give various results. It might be that the specific monsters I was parsing produce different results than would be expected. There is definitely cause for further investigation. I will happily experiment them and share my results, even if close minded people (Generally speaking, that is not directed at you) don't like it.

You've stated your case and thus your point. The basic equations underlying this game state you are wrong, I am simply presenting the results of those equations. If Kyudogi is actually outparsing Osode in a perfectly equal parse, that means the small difference in hitrate is surpassing a whopping base damage +5, which is further magnified by ranged attack. If that is the case, your hitrate is abysmal. I trust that isn't the case.

If you don't believe me, would Raenryong's word suffice? Look at the math he's done on various forums to assure yourself he knows what he's doing, then check the Kyudogi page on this website.

If your first post:



Was similar to that post:



We wouldn't be having this conversation right now. Perhaps your entry into a future debate should be slightly more elegantly worded.

I'll look into it tomorrow when I'm more awake to consider and/or do maths.

Re. Hitrate, you are correct. In more or less all of the parses my hitrate was around 95%.

Brevity is its own form of elegance, though I specifically deleted that post because a) it was several posts too late and b) I realized it didn't contribute sufficiently and therefore hoped to keep you from seeing it by deleting it and posting again once I had caught up on the thread's progress.

Hah, I didn't notice you'd deleted it. I would've deleted or edited mine to avoid this discussion if I'd noticed. =P

I'll pickup on any further points in the morning... Keep them coming, RNG is a job I love to experiment with and discuss.

I thought that it was common knowledge that +6.3 accuracy AND attack is better than +10 accuracy alone.

I mean, come on now, not including the stat bonus, the +6.3 (considering that 1 skill = .9 acc and attack after skill 200) means that you are really getting a total bonus of +12.6 acc/att. You should realized (since people are quoting math here) that +12.6 > +10.

On a side note, I'm not arguing with you Dasva, I'm agreeing with you. I'm just arguing with people who say PCC > Sea Torque.

Unless your torque has agi (for ranged attacks, and my argument was on marksmanship not hope torque), or dex (for melee attacks) you have 7 attack vs 3-4 acc.

Let's say you're on a job like Sam. Sam's damage is split up 30% DoT 70% WS
damage approximately.

The 3-4 acc applies to ALL of your damage

The str/attack only applies to 30% of your damage.

When you TP in str/attack they just add damage to your hit, only add to your DoT
When you TP in acc, it increases your DoT AND your ws damage, because you land more hits, gain more TP and will WS more times. For the torques they are better for DoT yes, but your damage isn't DoT only. The only way torques w/o the exceptions (dex+ and agi+ torques for extra acc/racc) will beat pcc in uncapped acc, is if you only use DoT and never WS at all.

Korpg: You would be correct for sufficiently high accuracy, but consider that accuracy also affects the WS portion of your DoT while the the attack from a torque does not. Thus, you see the full benefit of the acc as long as you don't cap early, but the value of attack in TP phase is reduced when considering your overall DoT.