The Odyssey - || Strategy And Discussion ||

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The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
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By Asura.Clintbeastwood 2023-02-01 10:19:53
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Asura.Asalith said: »
Set was fairly standard but I was using popos, full timing berserk/restraint and not using defender. With hindsight, I probably should have chucked in more SB under 25%.

sets.precast.WS['Calamity'] = {ammo="Knobkierrie",
head={ name="Agoge Mask +3", augments={'Enhances "Savagery" effect',}},
body="Nyame Mail",
hands="Boii Mufflers +3",
legs="Boii Cuisses +3",
feet="Nyame Sollerets",
neck={ name="War. Beads +2", augments={'Path: A',}},
waist={ name="Sailfi Belt +1", augments={'Path: A',}},
left_ear="Moonshade Earring",
right_ear="Thrud Earring",
left_ring="Epaminondas's Ring",
right_ring="Sroda Ring",
back={ name="Cichol's Mantle", augments={'STR+20','Accuracy+20 Attack+20','STR+10','Weapon skill damage +10%','Phys. dmg. taken-10%',}},
}

The only thing I had different from yours posted above:

Sroda <-> Chirich +1
Thrud <-> Schere
Sailfi <-> Peiste +1

Admittedly, I was borderline paranoid about TP feed so might have been crazy on SB, but it all worked out.

Congrats on clear btw!
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By Asura.Asalith 2023-02-01 10:25:09
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Asura.Clintbeastwood said: »
Congrats on clear btw!

You too! :D /salute!
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-02-01 10:31:53
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Asura.Hya said: »
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Could switch the war for a drk for sure on the second fight that way soul Enslavement and torcleaver should work wonders on it. I'd imagine the war is there to help with provoke also right? I'm glad to see war can replace drk like I was speaking on early in a v20 clear. Edit: nvm the soul Enslavement maybe down before of first fight my bad.

WAR is much better simply because COR and BRD want to use Savage, so WAR using Warcry helps both of them. WAR would need to use Mistral axe or something, which is absolutely viable.
I also forgot about the warcry sorry it was early morning when I posted. This makes more sense and is a big key for helping others damage and keeping some hate. I shouldve posted it as a question not more of a statement my bad.
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-02-01 10:35:58
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Asura.Asalith said: »
SimonSes said: »
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Could switch the war for a drk for sure on the second fight that way soul Enslavement and torcleaver should work wonders on it. I'd imagine the war is there to help with provoke also right? I'm glad to see war can replace drk like I was speaking on early in a v20 clear. Edit: nvm the soul Enslavement maybe down before of first fight my bad.

DRK is much better simply because COR and BRD want to use Savage, so WAR using Savage too is pretty terrible. WAR would need to use Mistral axe or something, which isn't ideal.

I was the WAR on the clear that Ruau posted above, WAR is a lot better than DRK on 2nd stage IMO.

Mistrals and Calamitys were hitting 35-40k each not including MS, there was no issue at all with damage. Warcry helps BRD/COR/RUN (don't underestimate RUN damage on this) and you can get off up to 6 in a single fight. Only thing I'd add is WAR does need to have a highly ranked up Ikenga's Axe.

Using this strat DRK loses a lot of their dmg potential as they can't white dmg Mboze. Also, DRK is really strong for the first KI and I think it's better suited on that (we ended up using SAM on our clear but that was due to job combos)

You do lose soul enslavement under 25% which does suck a little but you still have Unleash and as long as people are WSing appropriately around TP Drainkiss under 25% (everyone spamming WS at 1k will get you all killed) then there should be no issue.

Edit: One thing I forgot to mention is Tomahawk, this increases damage a lot.
So if you just using the add to tp on the damage loss from white shouldn't matter I do agree with you drk first does seem better in the standpoint of getting the damage down. I don't think you can go wrong either way I like seeing war in it tbh has way more weapons to pick from doesn't always need to be savage and helps others dd.
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By Asura.Clintbeastwood 2023-02-01 10:38:38
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We're working on Arebati v25 right now, we've had a few pulls get under 35%.

Last night, we got him to 65% on KI 1, but unfortunately he got fetters out twice on that pull, so he was extra spicy on KI 2 when fetters popped and ended up putting our RUN in the dirt.

Our second attempt last night we unfortunately saw Attack Down aura twice in a row, only got him to 35% again before timing out.

We're going to try getting him down to 65% on KI 1 again but watching our TP feed a bit closer to ensure no fetters, then just pray we don't get back to back Attack Down auras on KI 2.
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By SimonSes 2023-02-01 10:55:00
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Asura.Hya said: »
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Could switch the war for a drk for sure on the second fight that way soul Enslavement and torcleaver should work wonders on it. I'd imagine the war is there to help with provoke also right? I'm glad to see war can replace drk like I was speaking on early in a v20 clear. Edit: nvm the soul Enslavement maybe down before of first fight my bad.

WAR is much better simply because COR and BRD want to use Savage, so WAR using Warcry helps both of them. WAR would need to use Mistral axe or something, which is absolutely viable.

I wouldnt say it's better because of that. Its viable because of that. Warcry is only really helping BRD and RUN by a lot. COR is at 2250TP+ just from moonshade and gun, War is at 2410-2610TP+ assuming suggested Ikenga's axe. The most critical part of the fight is under 25%, where both RUN and BRD should probably limit theirs WSing anyway or even stop it, beside Unleash window, so Warcry barely helps here.

DRK using Soul Enslavement can easily engage Mboze, in which case it gets benefit of all the AM3 white damage too and can do massive DPS, which helps in most critical part of the fight. If you go with Unleash and then Soul Enslavement, you can turn at last 15% from last 25% into easy mode. Potentially even more. If you get lucky with wild card, its easy mode for whole 25%.

If we are talking about helping others with damage, people also underestimate (or straight up forgets about) -96 (with bis gear) Absorb VIT and what it does for both Torcleaver damage and for everyone damage via fSTR and -150 def. People also underestimate Scarlet Delirium potential, but that's whole other topic.
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-02-01 11:08:16
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SimonSes said: »
Asura.Hya said: »
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Could switch the war for a drk for sure on the second fight that way soul Enslavement and torcleaver should work wonders on it. I'd imagine the war is there to help with provoke also right? I'm glad to see war can replace drk like I was speaking on early in a v20 clear. Edit: nvm the soul Enslavement maybe down before of first fight my bad.

WAR is much better simply because COR and BRD want to use Savage, so WAR using Warcry helps both of them. WAR would need to use Mistral axe or something, which is absolutely viable.

I wouldnt say it's better because of that. Its viable because of that. Warcry is only really helping BRD and RUN by a lot. COR is at 2250TP+ just from moonshade and gun, War is at 2410-2610TP+ assuming suggested Ikenga's axe. The most critical part of the fight is under 25%, where both RUN and BRD should probably limit theirs WSing anyway or even stop it, beside Unleash window, so Warcry barely helps here.

DRK using Soul Enslavement can easily engage Mboze, in which case it gets benefit of all the AM3 white damage too and can do massive DPS, which helps in most critical part of the fight. If you go with Unleash and then Soul Enslavement, you can turn at last 15% from last 25% into easy mode. Potentially even more. If you get lucky with wild card, its easy mode for whole 25%.

If we are talking about helping others with damage, people also underestimate (or straight up forgets about) -96 (with bis gear) Absorb VIT and what it does for both Torcleaver damage and for everyone damage via fSTR and -150 def. People also underestimate Scarlet Delirium potential, but that's whole other topic.
Well soul isn't even gonna last long enough to make a super big dent in it if people aren't helping with damage also. The absorb vit while big depends on cooldowns to be up which if you tanking boss I'd rather not be in a set that's gonna get me clapped by the boss. Also I'd never do scarlet on that boss for just a 1 attack buff to even more it worth you gotta take a good bit of damage. It's also a another cooldown I rather not have in the way for rd to keep last resort up. I get your idea behind this but it gave no real benefit on v20 so I can't imagine v25.
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By SimonSes 2023-02-01 11:39:08
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Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Well soul isn't even gonna last long enough to make a super big dent in it if people aren't helping with damage also. The absorb vit while big depends on cooldowns to be up which if you tanking boss I'd rather not be in a set that's gonna get me clapped by the boss. Also I'd never do scarlet on that boss for just a 1 attack buff to even more it worth you gotta take a good bit of damage. It's also a another cooldown I rather not have in the way for rd to keep last resort up. I get your idea behind this but it gave no real benefit on v20 so I can't imagine v25.

I don't really understand any of those problems.

Who said none will help with damage. When DRK soul enslavement, BRD Cor and Run can still WS tping on add.
What will get you clapped? Bis absorb set for DS+NV is nothing glass Cannon, so I'm not sure why would you be afraid to use it.
What 1 attack buff? Do you know how scarlet works? Its the ability with probably biggest dps potential in the game excluding SPs.
I also can't see a problem with cooldowns. Real fight start at 25% where you should use fresh everything. Fresh LR, fresh DSNV, fresh Killer Instinct etc. Then you engage Mboze with Soul Enslavement, then you go back to tp on add and BST is using Unleash. At this point COR is using Wild Card, which might fail to restore your SPs, but will never fail to restore your LR, so you are never in a situation where you would not get LR for last 6min:30sec

This is my experience from V20 not V25 (we used the same setup suggested for V25 then) but I see no reason to believe it would be different for V25.
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By Asura.Clintbeastwood 2023-02-01 11:42:11
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SimonSes said: »
I wouldnt say it's better because of that. Its viable because of that.

I don't know, we tried both ways, WAR was clearly better for kill party. We also used a PLD instead of RUN.
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By SimonSes 2023-02-01 11:50:12
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Asura.Clintbeastwood said: »
SimonSes said: »
I wouldnt say it's better because of that. Its viable because of that.

I don't know, we tried both ways, WAR was clearly better for kill party. We also used a PLD instead of RUN.

I mean it's skill and gear dependent, so I can completely see someone's WAR being better than someone's DRK.
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By Asura.Clintbeastwood 2023-02-01 11:58:46
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SimonSes said: »
Asura.Clintbeastwood said: »
SimonSes said: »
I wouldnt say it's better because of that. Its viable because of that.

I don't know, we tried both ways, WAR was clearly better for kill party. We also used a PLD instead of RUN.

I mean it's skill and gear dependent, so I can completely see someone's WAR being better than someone's DRK.

Absolutely, and I should've clarified, (For our group and comps available...)

We have equally stacked/experienced WARs and DRKs available so I don't consider it a factor since it equals out.
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-02-01 12:04:27
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SimonSes said: »
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Well soul isn't even gonna last long enough to make a super big dent in it if people aren't helping with damage also. The absorb vit while big depends on cooldowns to be up which if you tanking boss I'd rather not be in a set that's gonna get me clapped by the boss. Also I'd never do scarlet on that boss for just a 1 attack buff to even more it worth you gotta take a good bit of damage. It's also a another cooldown I rather not have in the way for rd to keep last resort up. I get your idea behind this but it gave no real benefit on v20 so I can't imagine v25.

I don't really understand any of those problems.

Who said none will help with damage. When DRK soul enslavement, BRD Cor and Run can still WS tping on add.
What will get you clapped? Bis absorb set for DS+NV is nothing glass Cannon, so I'm not sure why would you be afraid to use it.
What 1 attack buff? Do you know how scarlet works? Its the ability with probably biggest dps potential in the game excluding SPs.
I also can't see a problem with cooldowns. Real fight start at 25% where you should use fresh everything. Fresh LR, fresh DSNV, fresh Killer Instinct etc. Then you engage Mboze with Soul Enslavement, then you go back to tp on add and BST is using Unleash. At this point COR is using Wild Card, which might fail to restore your SPs, but will never fail to restore your LR, so you are never in a situation where you would not get LR for last 6min:30sec

This is my experience from V20 not V25 (we used the same setup suggested for V25 then) but I see no reason to believe it would be different for V25.
In your first comment you said that brd and run shouldn't even be ws anymore at 25% or limiting ws boss.... Either you've never used scarlet or never paid any attention to it at all. In no way on this planet is scarlet for 1 dd taking maybe 200 damage from an auto ever gonna be better than buffing 3 or 4 people with warcry. It's not a glass cannon set for absorb vit but it has almost 0 dt with you mid maxing on paper it means you losing tp to do that absorb from weapon switching. Idk if your formula on sheet is wrong but if you take little to no damage the return is bad in general so you'd be taking an auto attack which isn't gonna hit you for half your hp.
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-02-01 12:05:15
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Asura.Clintbeastwood said: »
SimonSes said: »
Asura.Clintbeastwood said: »
SimonSes said: »
I wouldnt say it's better because of that. Its viable because of that.

I don't know, we tried both ways, WAR was clearly better for kill party. We also used a PLD instead of RUN.

I mean it's skill and gear dependent, so I can completely see someone's WAR being better than someone's DRK.

Absolutely, and I should've clarified, (For our group and comps available...)

We have equally stacked/experienced WARs and DRKs available so I don't consider it a factor since it equals out.
Or the people to actually play the job and not run numbers tbh.
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By SimonSes 2023-02-01 12:06:45
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Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
In your first comment you said that brd and run shouldn't even be ws anymore at 25% or limiting ws boss

I wrote outside of Unleash window, because that was for setup with WAR. For DRK it's outside of Unleash and Soul Enslavement window.
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-02-01 12:17:06
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SimonSes said: »
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
In your first comment you said that brd and run shouldn't even be ws anymore at 25% or limiting ws boss

I wrote outside of Unleash window, because that was for setup with WAR. For DRK it's outside of Unleash and Soul Enslavement window.
End of the day can't go wrong with either I feel war offer alot of stuff drk doesn't outside of soul vit and scarlet it can be done with both just like all the other tiers can. Grats on win guys and gl on rest of the fights!
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By Asura.Geriond 2023-02-01 12:29:43
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Ruaumoko said: »
~ Alternate between Dimidation and Spinning Slash to add DPS. Both hit surprisingly hard (25-30k) at high TP. Do not be tempted to use Resolution, it will feed far too much TP since it is a multi-hit WS.
Multi-hit WSs don't actually feed more TP. Mobs only get TP from the first landed hit of a WS.
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By Asura.Clintbeastwood 2023-02-01 13:00:03
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Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Or the people to actually play the job and not run numbers tbh.

Sorry, was the reply for me or Simon?
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By Asura.Hya 2023-02-01 13:09:54
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Asura.Clintbeastwood said: »
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Or the people to actually play the job and not run numbers tbh.

Sorry, was the reply for me or Simon?
I'll take the advice of the person who has the clear over the person who does not almost every time. I know you have put in the hours and effort to find the strategy that works best for your group. This sort of reporting is more valuable to me than, say, a spreadsheet which may or may not have errors in it that tells me x is better than y.
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By Asura.Clintbeastwood 2023-02-01 13:32:47
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Asura.Hya said: »
I'll take the advice of the person who has the clear over the person who does not almost every time. I know you have put in the hours and effort to find the strategy that works best for your group. This sort of reporting is more valuable to me than, say, a spreadsheet which may or may not have errors in it that tells me x is better than y.

Oh I agree 100%. Spreadsheets are great for comparing pieces of gear in a vacuum, but I don't think it translates well to practical application, not in FFXI at least.
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By SimonSes 2023-02-01 13:36:16
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Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Asura.Clintbeastwood said: »
SimonSes said: »
Asura.Clintbeastwood said: »
SimonSes said: »
I wouldnt say it's better because of that. Its viable because of that.

I don't know, we tried both ways, WAR was clearly better for kill party. We also used a PLD instead of RUN.

I mean it's skill and gear dependent, so I can completely see someone's WAR being better than someone's DRK.

Absolutely, and I should've clarified, (For our group and comps available...)

We have equally stacked/experienced WARs and DRKs available so I don't consider it a factor since it equals out.
Or the people to actually play the job and not run numbers tbh.

That's a cool way to go defensive :D
So you throw DRK experience card. Let's see..

Thx, it was cool to go through all those memories :)
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By Asura.Bluespoons 2023-02-01 13:50:35
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I am *shocked* that you are a galka. You exude pure elvaan energy.
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By Asura.Jezper 2023-02-01 13:53:38
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SimonSes said: »
That's a cool way to go defensive :D
*Brings screenshots from 2007

Something about defensive?
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By SimonSes 2023-02-01 13:57:26
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Asura.Jezper said: »
SimonSes said: »
That's a cool way to go defensive :D
*Brings screenshots from 2007

Something about defensive?

Well obviously. I wanted to show how I only run spreadsheets for all those years :)

I'm semi joking with those screenshots, but I'm also a little tired of people trying to discuss by trying to question my credibility as a player instead of providing real arguments.
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By Bahamut.Negan 2023-02-01 14:04:11
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Asura.Bluespoons said: »
I am *shocked* that you are a galka. You exude pure elvaan energy.
HOW DARETH YOU! >:[
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By SimonSes 2023-02-01 14:08:41
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Asura.Bluespoons said: »
I am *shocked* that you are a galka. You exude pure elvaan energy.

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By Bahamut.Mischief 2023-02-01 14:37:08
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WAR vs. DRK for Mboze can also come down to what other jobs you bring in the second KI setup.

For our group, since we used SMN + BLU in the second KI, DRK was almost certainly better. SMN can keep up Ifrit's Warcry and Shiva's TP bonus the entire fight through usage of Apogee. Ifrit's Warcry overwrites WAR's, which makes it really awkward to use, and Shiva's TP bonus further devalues Warcry for the WAR, COR, and BLU. DRK has no such issues, and is able to use both to their full effect while also having all the benefits others have noted (JA Haste, Soul Enslavement, etc.) This also opens up the potential for RUN+BST to land Purulent Ooze on the first KI (Side note: has anyone confirmed that still works on V25 Mboze?)

If you aren't using SMN in the kill party, WAR is likely equal or better since Warcry becomes much more valuable. Obviously, either DD is fully capable of killing V25 Mboze, just something to keep in mind.
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By SimonSes 2023-02-01 14:52:25
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Bahamut.Mischief said: »
If you aren't using SMN in the kill party, WAR is likely equal or better since Warcry becomes much more valuable. Obviously, either DD is fully capable of killing V25 Mboze, just something to keep in mind.

I would agree with this if not the reasons I posted above. Warcry will do very little to WAR using Ikenga axe (especially R30). Considering tp overflow you will be at 2800tp+ before tp bonus from warcry. COR is at minimum 2250, but considering it should time Savage not to do it in a row after or before BRD, they both will have high tp overflow too, so COR will be probably close to 3000tp without warcry and BRD close to 2000. The most critical part of the fight is below 25% and beside 60 sec window with Unleash, RUN and BRD should stop DPsing with just BST doing tp reset. Which means warcry will lose most of it's advantage in the most important time, while DRK is exactly the opposite, it will provide the highest group DPS in the most important time with Soul Enslavement.

Edit: WAR has one huge advantage, it's easy to execute. No absorbs, no scarlet, no multiply or even any REMA required for full potential.

Edit: when we did V20, people were holding TP below 50% anyway to make stronger WS and feed less tp, because with just BST with TP reset every 30 sec it's easy to break 2000TP threshold on Mboze and get *** with 4 people WSing as soon as they get 1000TP. This is also with Aymur BST, so doing max tp resets.
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-02-01 15:30:33
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SimonSes said: »
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Asura.Clintbeastwood said: »
SimonSes said: »
Asura.Clintbeastwood said: »
SimonSes said: »
I wouldnt say it's better because of that. Its viable because of that.

I don't know, we tried both ways, WAR was clearly better for kill party. We also used a PLD instead of RUN.

I mean it's skill and gear dependent, so I can completely see someone's WAR being better than someone's DRK.

Absolutely, and I should've clarified, (For our group and comps available...)

We have equally stacked/experienced WARs and DRKs available so I don't consider it a factor since it equals out.
Or the people to actually play the job and not run numbers tbh.

That's a cool way to go defensive :D
So you throw DRK experience card. Let's see..

Thx, it was cool to go through all those memories :)
75 content drk congrats? Im confused you try to throw shade and say better geared. SS don't make me feel any different thats like me pulling up old whm ss of me when I did whm for emps way back in the day. I was a ***whm then and im a ***whm now so its just SS of me playing a job when the game was way different.
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-02-01 15:31:23
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Asura.Clintbeastwood said: »
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Or the people to actually play the job and not run numbers tbh.

Sorry, was the reply for me or Simon?
This absolutely wasnt to you lol. This was to simon trying to throw shade is all more so joking.
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By Asura.Clintbeastwood 2023-02-01 15:36:19
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Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Asura.Clintbeastwood said: »
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Or the people to actually play the job and not run numbers tbh.

Sorry, was the reply for me or Simon?
This absolutely wasnt to you lol. This was to simon trying to throw shade is all more so joking.

lol np. I don't post on the forums much, so out of the loop on the ffxiah social dynamic for you regulars.
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