Top 5 RMEAs To Rank 15 And Why

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Top 5 RMEAs to rank 15 and why
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 Asura.Nuance
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By Asura.Nuance 2019-08-23 18:24:56
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Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »
The best R15 is the one for the job that you already play best, have the best gear for, and understand. R15'ing a weapon, just like AG'ing a weapon used to be, doesn't immediately make you a viable member of an alliance or leader of the parse. The rest of your gear and your understanding of the job go much farther. So, R15 a weapon for the job you are frequently on and have top notch gear for.

R15'ing a Death Penalty just because COR is the current monster of the meta doesn't make you immediately a great COR. It means your piss poor Leaden Salutes are now 15% less piss poor.

Its like building a house with gorgeous bay windows overlooking a serene mountain range, but the foundation is made with Legos. Its still a ***house.

Pretty much this. Calad is great and I’m working on one myself but currently have R15 Liberator and love the hell out of it and find myself beating drks with r15 calad that made it with the assumption that they would immediately “own” any fight worth parsing.

R15 this or that is one thing the ability and knowledge of how to use and gear around it is another altogether
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By Aerix 2019-08-23 18:46:46
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volkom said: »
all these mentions of cala makes me happy :)

Torcleaver is objectively one of the coolest WSs simply because of the anticipation created by the jump before the sword comes crashing down. That alone gives it +100 style points.

Caladbolg also looks great and has fantastic white damage. I see you posting about Torc all the time and your enthusiasm is absolutely justified.
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2019-08-23 19:13:05
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the best ones are going to be the ones that do something besides only a DPS boost, like spharai for the additional defenses when applicable, or boosts the damage of important use weapons, like annihilator for low hate physical damage
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By DaDrifter 2019-08-23 21:15:56
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Short answer, it depends on actual use. Think requency
1. Caladbolg - Masamune - Epeolatry - Chango (auguably the best weapon for those job in most any situation, the jobs are used for most content extensively thus the weapons are fitting)
2. Tizona - Twashtar - Kenkonken - Trishula - Lionheart - Verethragna (solid choices for many situations but jobs either have better wea[pm options and or job meta utilization is less compared to there DD; KKK is the case in point)
3. Death Penalty, Gastrephetes, Farsha (very situational; party setup must conform to its use for it to be truly beneficial, Cloudsplitter similar to DP and Gastre if you can mitigate the risk of death).
4. Apocolypse, Almace, Rhongomiant (Even more niche or job is underutilized in current meta or is used outside of the norm)
5. Mostly anything else. Can be great in niche situations with the right setup.
But as most have said it is preference. If you use that job and weapon consistently regardless of the meta it is worth it.
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By Jdove 2019-08-23 22:04:22
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#1 Nirvana cuz its for smn and not melee and obvious why its #1.
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By Asura.Crowned 2019-08-23 22:52:53
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DaDrifter said: »
3. Death Penalty, Gastrephetes
Death Penalty and Gastra at number 3? Delete this
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By Afania 2019-08-23 23:57:37
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Lakshmi.Cortez said: »
Terpischorde for solo DD play

DNC solo DD play really really favors strong rudra weapons like twash(better at r15, high TP bonus or sp zerg) or Aeneas(better at r0 or low tp bonus).

I personally don't see terp worth the price tag since presto update. Its utility just isn't attractive enough but it doesn't have stats that really benefits rudra ws.
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By SimonSes 2019-08-24 08:16:50
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Afania said: »
Lakshmi.Cortez said: »
Terpischorde for solo DD play

DNC solo DD play really really favors strong rudra weapons like twash(better at r15, high TP bonus or sp zerg) or Aeneas(better at r0 or low tp bonus).

I personally don't see terp worth the price tag since presto update. Its utility just isn't attractive enough but it doesn't have stats that really benefits rudra ws.
it kinda really depends what you are fighting imo. If its a longer solo fight and not a zerg then Terpsi is fully justified. Without sam rolls your tp generation hurts a lot in hybrid tank set. Terpsi helps a lot here and faster TP means safer and faster kill. Terpsi wont help Rudra damage directly but assuming its not SP zerg, then you can WS quicker with Terpsi to create longer self SC or store more TP for Rudra, so it works like pseudo TP bonus. if you dont self SC then Pyrrhic solo is afaik stronger than Rudra especially when you dont have enough acc to uee Cento.
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By Afania 2019-08-24 09:31:56
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SimonSes said: »
Afania said: »
Lakshmi.Cortez said: »
Terpischorde for solo DD play

DNC solo DD play really really favors strong rudra weapons like twash(better at r15, high TP bonus or sp zerg) or Aeneas(better at r0 or low tp bonus).

I personally don't see terp worth the price tag since presto update. Its utility just isn't attractive enough but it doesn't have stats that really benefits rudra ws.
it kinda really depends what you are fighting imo. If its a longer solo fight and not a zerg then Terpsi is fully justified. Without sam rolls your tp generation hurts a lot in hybrid tank set. Terpsi helps a lot here and faster TP means safer and faster kill. Terpsi wont help Rudra damage directly but assuming its not SP zerg, then you can WS quicker with Terpsi to create longer self SC or store more TP for Rudra, so it works like pseudo TP bonus. if you dont self SC then Pyrrhic solo is afaik stronger than Rudra especially when you dont have enough acc to uee Cento.

On my spreadsheet terp Am3 has 2.08 round/WS in max tp set sam roll and twash has 2.19 in same setup.

People like to make it sound like AM3 TP so much faster but in reality the TP speed difference is small. You can connect SC and overflow comfortably with a twash. Alternativly you can offhand blurred+1 (2.15 round ws) or raectic and tp even faster, and still maintain rudra dmg boost.

Regarding hybrid tank set, there is trust tank so they are not always needed. Or real tank in 6 man pt.

Solo DD not self SCing sounds very wrong. Even if you just spam the same ws at 1000 TP they naturally SC with itself. Rudra SC with itself but PK doesn't. So that still favors rudra.

There's one situation that I see terp will shine.

1) you can pop AM3 before engage. Maybe something like Escha.
2) You can't offhand cento at all. Aka not SV zerg.
3) You aren't using grand pas. Aka not 1 time short zerg.
4) You have many other people spamming ws so SC dmg doesn't matter.
5) You don't have any war in same pt doing warcry, nor smn doing Crystal blessing.

If you can fulfill all 5 conditions above then yes, I see terp being the strongest option. But how often does that happen.

People like to make an argument about "dps in hybrid" but that sounds like forcing a situation to make a weapon favorable. In real game play I am not going to default an inferior weapon and start with hybrid the whole time. I always start with max dps set, let tank takes dmg and switch to hybrid in oh ***moment. Then switch back when oh ***moment is over. So I'm not going to just switch to hybrid and swap out a rudra weapon for terp then build AM3 then swap back >.>. The hybrid set argument just isn't very convincing.

I feel that at this point even liberator is a more attractive mythic than terp. At least absorb matters and the SC property of DRK mythic ws doesn't overlap with other strong drk ws. I would rank terp maybe somewhere in the middle in rema ranking, below liberator, Tiz, DP etc.

I mean, if you main the job and look very hard for it I'm pretty sure you will run into a situation that favors terp eventually. I'm not saying it's horrible tier. I only said it doesn't worth the price tag compare with other options overall.

Edit: Just checked Aeneas/taming and got 2.12 round ws. So its not much slower than AM3 terp's 2.08. Even if you let terp overflow I doubt its going to win for rudra in this case.
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By HyperKTM 2019-08-24 14:53:28
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Masa masa masa dp gastra
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By Chimerawizard 2019-08-24 15:21:08
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one for every member of the party, except WHM because he'll be too busy spamming cure.
So... Carnwenhan, masamune, death penalty, idris, and epeolatry for most parties I've been in more recently.
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By DaDrifter 2019-08-25 04:58:32
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Asura.Crowned said: »
DaDrifter said: »
3. Death Penalty, Gastrephetes
Death Penalty and Gastra at number 3? Delete this

How often and in how many situations do you use Death Penalty and Gastrephetes over other meta options. Let's see...dynamis? A few other niche situations like Omen (Kei)? Didn't say it is not worth the upgrade. Just said it is very situational that a R15 of these weapon would be utilized over other more prominent weapon based on current meta play.
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By SimonSes 2019-08-25 06:15:20
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Afania said: »
Edit: Just checked Aeneas/taming and got 2.12 round ws. So its not much slower than AM3 terp's 2.08. Even if you let terp overflow I doubt its going to win for rudra in this case.

This is probably with Saber Dance. I never use Saber Dance when I solo something harder on DNC, because the reason I bring DNC is probably because I need emergency heal when Trust healer cant keep up, so Fan Dance is up most of the time.
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2019-08-25 06:42:41
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Afania said: »
There's one situation that I see terp will shine.

1) you can pop AM3 before engage. Maybe something like Escha.
2) You can't offhand cento at all. Aka not SV zerg.
3) You aren't using grand pas. Aka not 1 time short zerg.
4) You have many other people spamming ws so SC dmg doesn't matter.
5) You don't have any war in same pt doing warcry, nor smn doing Crystal blessing.

Granted your argument have several merits, yet you seem to focus so much on the instances where Full Buff / Max DPS is the norm.

I'm with you on Twashtar being superior post Presto Update, but the amount of times you end up losing buffs and/or debuffed like there is no tomorrow are far higher than perfect zerg scenarios.

Maintenance of AM3 is never an issue on Dancer anyway, making the gap shift towards Twashtar in proper setups/scenarios. but again, its not always the case.

In longer fights I would argue that Tauret and Terpsichore will pull ahead with a decent margin, and if saber dancer is kept up... the scale will definitely pivot even more towards them.

As far as R15 goes though, you're 100% right on making Twashtar first.

The hybrid set argument doesn't really apply that much on Dancer, we have Fan Dance to cover that up without issues. So that also connects to your argument in favor of Twashtar.
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By SimonSes 2019-08-25 07:32:50
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Leviathan.Katriina said: »
The hybrid set argument doesn't really apply that much on Dancer, we have Fan Dance to cover that up without issues. So that also connects to your argument in favor of Twashtar.

Hybrid set on DNC is not a PDT set, but MEVA set mainly based on Turms +1, which has no multiattack at all. I really dont understand why community dont see benefits of high meva, while one of the most known RUN advantages over PLD tank is MEVA.

In Full Turms+1 you can avoid sooo much ***. I havent been hit by 95% debuff on 3/5 turms+1 THF doing Omen for example. No paralyzes from tigers, no slow from undeads, no sleep from mandies, nukes from fearies and unded mobs doing 150-200 damage etc. Midbosses in Omen wont hit you with sleep, curse and everhhting else. Omen bosses do nukes for 200 and their magic AoE hits for some funny numbers and you resists all debuffs from them too. It's so good and I really dont know why people dont build MEVA hybrid sets, instead of MDT sets. MDT sets block just damage, MEVA sets block damage (and usually much better than 50% MDT) and usually most or all debuffs.
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By malakef 2019-08-25 07:35:14
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Because full buff max dps actually IS the norm in group play. I’m on bored with Afania on this twash R15 and offhand a cent is almost always going to win and is the superior choice.
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By SimonSes 2019-08-25 07:46:24
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malakef said: »
Because full buff max dps actually IS the norm in group play. I’m on bored with Afania on this twash R15 and offhand a cent is almost always going to win and is the superior choice.

None saying it wont win for damage in full buffs tho. I was pointing out NOT group playing and soloing/lowmaning stuff and how useful is mythic's AM3 for Hybrid meva builds missing multi attacks.
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By Fayona 2019-08-25 08:53:32
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I can’t emphasize enough how much fun rank 15 Lionhart is. A rune with a BIS phalanx set or battatura up can just sit there and spam resolutions. In high buff scenarios like dyna d or ambu I can sit back and hit resolution for spikes up to 60k+. If you play rune and enjoy the damage dealing aspect rank 15 lion is unbelievably fun.
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By Shichishito 2019-08-25 11:33:37
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SimonSes said: »
It's so good and I really dont know why people dont build MEVA hybrid sets
turms seems very good for that purpose but its limited to run, dnc and thf. not sure how the ark set with the "resistance to all status ailments" replacing MEVA would live up to turms. ratri with the +damage taken is probably not as safe as turms either.

BLU is stuck with pinga for MEVA which is such a big drop in acc and haste that you might as well be better off eating the debuff in DD or -DT set and hope for a quick WHM.
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By Asura.Crowned 2019-08-25 13:24:14
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Shichishito said: »
SimonSes said: »
It's so good and I really dont know why people dont build MEVA hybrid sets
turms seems very good for that purpose but its limited to run, dnc and thf. not sure how the ark set with the "resistance to all status ailments" replacing MEVA would live up to turms. ratri with the +damage taken is probably not as safe as turms either.

BLU is stuck with pinga for MEVA which is such a big drop in acc and haste that you might as well be better off eating the debuff in DD or -DT set and hope for a quick WHM.

Using the Arke set in anything with mildly dangerous magic attacks is a great way to get yourself killed. Its essentially like tping in argosy, just don't.


DaDrifter said: »
Asura.Crowned said: »
DaDrifter said: »
3. Death Penalty, Gastrephetes
Death Penalty and Gastra at number 3? Delete this
How often and in how many situations do you use Death Penalty and Gastrephetes over other meta options. Let's see...dynamis? A few other niche situations like Omen (Kei)? Didn't say it is not worth the upgrade. Just said it is very situational that a R15 of these weapon would be utilized over other more prominent weapon based on current meta play.

I'm not even going to bother. You put kenkonken at #2 over DP and gastra.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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By SimonSes 2019-08-25 14:33:10
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Shichishito said: »
SimonSes said: »
It's so good and I really dont know why people dont build MEVA hybrid sets
turms seems very good for that purpose but its limited to run, dnc and thf. not sure how the ark set with the "resistance to all status ailments" replacing MEVA would live up to turms. ratri with the +damage taken is probably not as safe as turms either.

BLU is stuck with pinga for MEVA which is such a big drop in acc and haste that you might as well be better off eating the debuff in DD or -DT set and hope for a quick WHM.

There are few sets that covers most jobs, but some are hard to get
1. Kendatsuba, Turms, Volte from Windurst - Can be used in hybrid MEVA TP sets.
2. Pinga, Inyanga, Mousai, Ea, Bayaami. Can't really be used in hybrid MEVA TP set, but can be used as toggle MEVA set to swap into for magic TP moves or magic
3. Ohoshi. Can't really be used in hybrid MEVA TP set (can be used in hybrid ranged TP set tho, especially during Triple or Double shot), but can be used as toggle MEVA set to swap into for magic TP moves or magic
4. Heyoka. Can be used in hybrid MEVA TP set, but BST and PUP mainly use pet only strategies for harder fights. Its a really good swap for bst when you need to get close to your pet and in range of magic AoE
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By Asura.Biglovin 2019-08-25 14:51:08
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Top 5
Dylan
Dylan
Dylan
Dylan
Dylan


And I spit mad fire.
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 Asura.Sirris
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By Asura.Sirris 2019-08-25 17:13:11
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Asura.Crowned said: »


DaDrifter said: »
Asura.Crowned said: »
DaDrifter said: »
3. Death Penalty, Gastrephetes
Death Penalty and Gastra at number 3? Delete this
How often and in how many situations do you use Death Penalty and Gastrephetes over other meta options. Let's see...dynamis? A few other niche situations like Omen (Kei)? Didn't say it is not worth the upgrade. Just said it is very situational that a R15 of these weapon would be utilized over other more prominent weapon based on current meta play.

I'm not even going to bother. You put kenkonken at #2 over DP and gastra.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I mean, he's not wrong. Death Penalty is amazing for Dyna-D and... that's about it. Gastra adds Kei to the mix. Kenkonken is the best PUP weapon for everything except pure pet-only strats or tanking. Dude even points out that it's for a job or role that isn't high in the current meta.
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By Asura.Crowned 2019-08-25 17:21:31
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Asura.Sirris said: »
Asura.Crowned said: »


DaDrifter said: »
Asura.Crowned said: »
DaDrifter said: »
3. Death Penalty, Gastrephetes
Death Penalty and Gastra at number 3? Delete this
How often and in how many situations do you use Death Penalty and Gastrephetes over other meta options. Let's see...dynamis? A few other niche situations like Omen (Kei)? Didn't say it is not worth the upgrade. Just said it is very situational that a R15 of these weapon would be utilized over other more prominent weapon based on current meta play.

I'm not even going to bother. You put kenkonken at #2 over DP and gastra.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I mean, he's not wrong. Death Penalty is amazing for Dyna-D and... that's about it. Gastra adds Kei to the mix. Kenkonken is the best PUP weapon for everything except pure pet-only strats or tanking. Dude even points out that it's for a job or role that isn't high in the current meta.

Pup is the literal definition of situational, people only toss pups at what they don't understand. Take odin when it first came out for example, people just tossed pup tanks at it bc nobody knew you had to stack defense buffs. This thread is top 5 remas TO RANK 15, not top 5 remas for their respective jobs. Kenkonken might be a top tier rema for pup, but does stringing pummel damage +15% and 30 acc really make pup that much more useful? Leaden Salute/Trueflight damage +15% and racc +30 takes cor and rng dps to another level, despite "only being amazing for dynamis".
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 Leviathan.Kingkitt
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By Leviathan.Kingkitt 2019-08-25 18:08:06
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DaDrifter said: »
Asura.Crowned said: »
DaDrifter said: »
3. Death Penalty, Gastrephetes
Death Penalty and Gastra at number 3? Delete this

How often and in how many situations do you use Death Penalty and Gastrephetes over other meta options. Let's see...dynamis? A few other niche situations like Omen (Kei)? Didn't say it is not worth the upgrade. Just said it is very situational that a R15 of these weapon would be utilized over other more prominent weapon based on current meta play.

You can do probably 3/4 of an Aeonic run clean and efficiently with gastra rngs and dp cors.
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 Asura.Sirris
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By Asura.Sirris 2019-08-25 18:16:02
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Asura.Crowned said: »
Asura.Sirris said: »
Asura.Crowned said: »


DaDrifter said: »
Asura.Crowned said: »
DaDrifter said: »
3. Death Penalty, Gastrephetes
Death Penalty and Gastra at number 3? Delete this
How often and in how many situations do you use Death Penalty and Gastrephetes over other meta options. Let's see...dynamis? A few other niche situations like Omen (Kei)? Didn't say it is not worth the upgrade. Just said it is very situational that a R15 of these weapon would be utilized over other more prominent weapon based on current meta play.

I'm not even going to bother. You put kenkonken at #2 over DP and gastra.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I mean, he's not wrong. Death Penalty is amazing for Dyna-D and... that's about it. Gastra adds Kei to the mix. Kenkonken is the best PUP weapon for everything except pure pet-only strats or tanking. Dude even points out that it's for a job or role that isn't high in the current meta.

Pup is the literal definition of situational, people only toss pups at what they don't understand. Take odin when it first came out for example, people just tossed pup tanks at it bc nobody knew you had to stack defense buffs. This thread is top 5 remas TO RANK 15, not top 5 remas for their respective jobs. Kenkonken might be a top tier rema for pup, but does stringing pummel damage +15% and 30 acc really make pup that much more useful? Leaden Salute/Trueflight damage +15% and racc +30 takes cor and rng dps to another level, despite "only being amazing for dynamis".

I mean, that's true though? Most of XI's endgame events CORs are using Savage Blade, and RNG while great for its niche isn't used all the time. It's hard to make a good argument that DP/Gastra would go alongside Masa/Calad/Chango/Liberator, which are top-tier weapons on top jobs. I think putting them a tier down makes sense.
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By Asura.Crowned 2019-08-25 18:28:14
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Asura.Sirris said: »
Asura.Crowned said: »
Asura.Sirris said: »
Asura.Crowned said: »


DaDrifter said: »
Asura.Crowned said: »
DaDrifter said: »
3. Death Penalty, Gastrephetes
Death Penalty and Gastra at number 3? Delete this
How often and in how many situations do you use Death Penalty and Gastrephetes over other meta options. Let's see...dynamis? A few other niche situations like Omen (Kei)? Didn't say it is not worth the upgrade. Just said it is very situational that a R15 of these weapon would be utilized over other more prominent weapon based on current meta play.

I'm not even going to bother. You put kenkonken at #2 over DP and gastra.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I mean, he's not wrong. Death Penalty is amazing for Dyna-D and... that's about it. Gastra adds Kei to the mix. Kenkonken is the best PUP weapon for everything except pure pet-only strats or tanking. Dude even points out that it's for a job or role that isn't high in the current meta.

Pup is the literal definition of situational, people only toss pups at what they don't understand. Take odin when it first came out for example, people just tossed pup tanks at it bc nobody knew you had to stack defense buffs. This thread is top 5 remas TO RANK 15, not top 5 remas for their respective jobs. Kenkonken might be a top tier rema for pup, but does stringing pummel damage +15% and 30 acc really make pup that much more useful? Leaden Salute/Trueflight damage +15% and racc +30 takes cor and rng dps to another level, despite "only being amazing for dynamis".

I mean, that's true though? Most of XI's endgame events CORs are using Savage Blade, and RNG while great for its niche isn't used all the time. It's hard to make a good argument that DP/Gastra would go alongside Masa/Calad/Chango/Liberator, which are top-tier weapons on top jobs. I think putting them a tier down makes sense.

You are missing the point. Gastra and DP are useful for more than just dyna, but we'll just roll with that seeing as how you're simple minded. At rank 15, the benefit that you would get from Death Penalty inside of dynamis alone, would outweigh ANY benefit you'd get from rank 15 kenkonken.
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By Bahamut.Suph 2019-08-25 19:53:27
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Asura.Crowned said: »
You are missing the point. Gastra and DP are useful for more than just dyna, but we'll just roll with that seeing as how you're simple minded. At rank 15, the benefit that you would get from Death Penalty inside of dynamis alone, would outweigh ANY benefit you'd get from rank 15 kenkonken.

I don't think you can help him see the point. Aside from his PUP with Kenkonken, he has REMA for MNK, DRG, Mythic SAM, PLD and Nirvana SMN. So he probably hasn't clear many contents with strategy other than Astral Conduit it.

Leaden is amazing for any mob that's not magic or dark resistant, with or without relevant buff. And it gains a lot of damage from R15.

For Kenkonken R15... when was the last time PUP was invited to a party because they want that Stringing Pummel damage? Because I don't see any other benefit R15 Kenkonken have over R0 or even non-AG Kenkonken.

And while I'm not sure what counts as end game contents these days, for me it's Geas Fete, Dyna D and Omen. COR is amazing for all of those contents and Leaden Salute is amazing for all of Dyna D and most of Geas Fete. Obviously COR wouldn't use Death Penalty on Caturae just like WAR wouldn't use Chango on Onychophora.
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By Afania 2019-08-25 20:07:50
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Leviathan.Katriina said: »
Afania said: »
There's one situation that I see terp will shine.

1) you can pop AM3 before engage. Maybe something like Escha.
2) You can't offhand cento at all. Aka not SV zerg.
3) You aren't using grand pas. Aka not 1 time short zerg.
4) You have many other people spamming ws so SC dmg doesn't matter.
5) You don't have any war in same pt doing warcry, nor smn doing Crystal blessing.

Granted your argument have several merits, yet you seem to focus so much on the instances where Full Buff / Max DPS is the norm.

Huh? I was talking about solo DD entire time. "Solo DD play" was the term used in origional post.

Afania said: »
Even if you just spam the same ws at 1000 TP they naturally SC with itself. Rudra SC with itself but PK doesn't. So that still favors rudra.

Afania said: »
DNC solo DD play really really favors strong rudra weapons

My point is that as a solo DD, SC damage will worth significant amount of dps because there are no other DD interrupting SC. Since rudra has darkness property, PK doesnt, "solo DD play" favors rudra. That was all I (wanted to) said.

Then people proceed to make points about losing buffs, TP in meva set and such >.> That wasnt my point about rudras advantage with SC dmg. Its entirely different argument.
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Posts: 6534
By Afania 2019-08-25 20:32:19
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Asura.Sirris said: »
Kenkonken is the best PUP weapon for everything except pure pet-only strats or tanking.

Asura.Sirris said: »
Most of XI's endgame events CORs are using Savage Blade,

KKK is in the same situation as DP, you even said so yourself. See bold.

Except when KKK shines, unlike DP its not in the highest tier raid event. Its in a worse position than DP even if DP isnt used fulltime.

Asura.Sirris said: »
It's hard to make a good argument that DP/Gastra would go alongside Masa/Calad/Chango/Liberator, which are top-tier weapons on top jobs. I think putting them a tier down makes sense.

The argument was DP v.s KKK, not DP v.s Masa/Calad/Chango/Liberator.
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