Sub Job Opinions!

kk here's what I'm thinking. I wanna see everyone style for handling a situation. I mean I can look a dude's or ladies job and sub job and get a thin grasp on it but I want to know whats making the wheels turn for that selection. The how and why are very dear to me and yet I dont get that from alot of people. I see like 6 or 7 dd walk out with /nin thinking "oh they must dual wield." But then they tell me they do it for the utsusemi since they obviously cant dual wield great katanas or great axes or scythes. I personally dont find utsusemi that great of an ability to dedicate something as vital to the situation as your sub job entirely to it. I mean you gotta ask yourself, when the ***truly hits the fan because you know it will "ultimate defense" or not, how will those 6 shadows save your team and all the effort put forth in that moment? Or are you gonna let the ppl who get called by there actual job to save ya? I mean there is no beat all gear set right? So in retrospect there is no beat all sub job as well surving your purpose to the absolute pinacle in every situation. That would be kinda silly. Anyway the point im getting at is I see a very very small amount of "style" being put forth by my fellow dd's what with there pretending to be a ninja with a very large weapon (go watch some anime and you'll know it never works out very well for those guys). So I want to start a thread for showing what would you sub for the 4 major styles in most rpg's, zerging, tanking, support, and healer. The rules are include your main job and a sub job for the 4 styles and a reason why it would work for each style. you gotta include all 4 even if you dont actually perform that role often (or at all).

Esample:
Main job Dark Knight

zerging: would be a tie with either /sam or /war, while /sam does give meditate and hasso and store tp for dding as well as seigan for when you attract to much hate /war gives more dps since it allows a drk to have either a constant wheel of attack buffs or stack them to make one hell of a damage spike. If your in a situation where endurance is more important then "kill it now" /sam wins otherwise /war.

Tanking: /blu here because cocoon can allow a drk to obtain a 600+ defense rating not to mention there is alot of tanking gear avaliable to a drk (though alot of it isnt used because its main focus is zerging) damage can be reduced to an extrodinary degree with absorb Vit and a tav taco and further more so with gear such as the abyss helemt or the HQ chaos body. /blu also offers access to spells such as headbutt for spamming a form of stun (unreliable it maybe compared to an actual stun its still convenient as hell) wild carrot ( equivlant to a cure II) auto regen, various killer traits, and if you need to start dding you can stack all physical blu spells with souleater ( though it will probably piss your healer right off since blood weapon does not stack with them). Note: that last bit obviously isnt for when your tanking but still good to know when you need to switch gears from reducing damage to dealing it.) This sub is best used for mega boss fights and the like. it probably has no conventional use in an actual zerg strategy since everything will be dieing to fast to bother with getting fancy.

support: Again for me its a tie with /blm and /brd. /brd will allow you to hand out enahance your parties overall performance even if you are using low level brd spells that only means that if you already have a bard you wont be overwriting him since hes using higher tier versions. /blm on the other hand is more for crowd control since drks actually have an enfeebling skill they can use sleepga effectively especially in areas such as dynamis where a lack of sleeping can cause some pretty heavy havoc. they can also make use of there elemental line better what with the increased int and again having a natural elemental magic skill. they still wont be able to nuke like main job mages but thats pretty apparent.

healing: /whm, though no natural healing or enhancing skill will make you look fairly poor in comparison to red mages, white mages, dancers, and scholars. Its still semi useful during situations where raises are few and far between (though some ppl will say they should have reraise, stuff does happen where it could have gotten used up in a bad aoe timing or dispelled because of certain of mobs or just wore off at a bad time), as well as when your healers mp is low and they need to rest you can still help out with what little you got. Seriously, if your arm is ready to fall off and your caughing up liters of blood would you really say "naw not that guy, lets wait for the dude with the coat to come back he seems way more legit".

Anyway that's all there is too it. Even though me typing this was kinda time consuming and will probably do nothing but get the trolls out of there caves. Who am I kidding I enjoy trolls. They're so silly. ^^

tl;dr

I just scanned the post since it's very long to simply stat "Why do you choose the subjob for this or that situation".

You learn what subs are needed for what situation based on previous experiences from that player or a friend.

PT builds could dictate what sub you should have, NM/mob's TP moves or spells can dictate also. It just boils down to experiences dealing with that specific situation.

you care to umm ahh... contribute then? Hmmm?

People that have been playing this game since release day still argue this. Take from that what you will.

I blame myself for typing too much T-T.

I thought it was an interesting read, im glad you took the time to write it!

Well it was drawn out, but it would be a waste of my time not to post more after the tl;dr.

I at least contributed more than most of these other people that posted. Most subjobs stack something beneficial to the main job. Ya nin/whm can do some stuff, but really not a beneficial subjob compared to a nin/war.

why?

lol

nin/whm doesn't offer enough outside of cure and SS at high lvl.

nin/war offers what nin needs to help with it's tanking ability. Helps boost attack so nin can hit some ***with all that eva/agi gear.

Really the best all-around answer is just from peer preference on how they progessed through the game.

Nin/Whm is for soloing avatars and can be used for soloing Genbu >.>;; MagDefBonus RR and teleports :o

The feasibily of /whm for majority of the game? *** /rdm offers more than /whm.

Situational ***is situational, /whm is purely for Magic Def Bonus and has Ga bar's as well as DS Tele's and RR for when if u *** up, /rdm only offers fast cast over /whm, situational.

go go Rumaha!

My two 75 jobs are rng and thf. I prefer to sub sam with rng. (Most others prefer war for the dd abilities or nin for the survivability.) The reason I prefer to sub sam is because the hasso gives me a nice boost (used together with velocity shot. They are in the same macro, they go up together and come down together) in using my fire staff. I also like meditate, especially in places like waiting for Einherjar because you don't loose tp on entering. Subbing war gives more of a boost if you have berserk or warcry up 100% of the time, but because of recast on those, I can't seem to get one or the other up 100% of the time. Also, I tend to pull hate, and war gives me no options to help with that except Defender. (And frankly, I am still rather squishy even with defender up.) /sam gives me seigan and third eye (also put up together in the same macro.) When I lose hate, I simply tap my velocity shot and hasso macro to get back to DD'ing instead of 3rd eye'ing. However, if I am in a situation where I will probably be pulling hate a lot or don't have a tank (such as nyzul aisle, where we take DD's and a healer. No tank.) Then I /nin for survivability and saving the healer's mp.

For thf, I /nin almost 100% of the time. The main exception is that one assault mission with the chigeos, where an AoE will one-hit them all. Then I /sam for meditate, gather them up, Cyclone, and move on to the next set.

I am leveling war atm, only 55 so far. I've duo'ed it up this high with a nin, so I am in the habit of /dnc for healing us both. But in the few parties I've been in, I have liked /thf for sata-->ws. I'll need to play around more with subs for that and see which I prefer for what situations. Of course, I also /nin on occasion for that in situations where I know I will pull hate. I'll also sneakily stalk the higher-lv wars that I know and see what they sub when and why.

=P Gotcha, boss!

I just wouldn't ask a nin to go /whm for events. Mostly subjobs are just used to go with the trend everyone has used or is using.

Oh hell no I wouldn't show up to an event /whm less asked, /war /rng /dnc would be all they can do really (/rng capped throwing being sky) But all subs are situational, and I just like to have as many as possible in case asked to go xxx/xxx and then I can.

What subjob and why is what I got from the OP. When I think of it, it's more about what are the best subs for majority of stuff. Since the game is mainly based on party setups to do things > Solo, my answer is based on that.

In EXP situation as your DRK:
/nin does not add to your DMG at all but it adds to your survivabilty which in turn adds to your EXP/hr. I personally noticed the quality of tanks has dropped since I was leveling my first few jobs and with those tanks it doesn't take much to pull hate off of them. So when you do pull hate off of these tanks as, let's say /war and you just popped Berserk, you get smacked with maybe a double attack or a TP move. That's more MP the healer has to waste on you and the more MP he/she has to rest up to get back. Blah blah blah it's been said 1000 times before.

Moral of the story: the shadow absorbed dmg will help your party out more then you going /brd or something for one lolSong or /blu so you can "tank".

DRK/SAM or GTFO!

DRK/NIN for zerging(if you even care) or GTFO!

WHM/NIN for pawnage solo or GTFO!

uh... MNK/WAR cz I'm old school like that or GTFO!

In my time as a drk though i found it best when not facing against a boss or something that its better to aim for destroying the enemy as quickly as possible. /nin for me in this is incredibly overrated since one handed weapons are more of a damage over time thing and shadows vs colibri are especially useful and I haven't seen many healers for merits that have been straining for mp since they released wings of the goddess. Long story short merits or even parties in general with you as dd you need to kill the thing quickly so it doesnt become a hassle. 6 level 75's admitting that something like a greater colibri is indeed a hassle for them is pretty messed up.

drk/nin? better not be thinking about dual wielding kc and mkris with that setup.
and isnt mnk/thf old school?

A drk/nin full merit pwns.

MNK/WAR and MNK/THF are both old school

fair enough. anyway can you guys start saying how? This is kinda getting annoying with ppl just saying such and such gtfo and this and this pwns with nothing there. it doesnt make a very convincing argument or pleasent conversation.

You want an arguement for entertainment reasons?

I said EXP, as in up to 73ish, not Meripo. You may think it is best to kill mobs ASAP, and I agree with you on that, but you have to remember not everyone thinks like that. Not everyone cares enough about a job to gear it to its full potential and dish out the damage. I have seen some HORRID SAMs around that are leveling the job because they see what other, well geared, SAMs can do but think it just comes naturally with the job. So while you are dishing out all this DMG the other people in your party may not be keeping up and you are stuck face to face with a mob beating the ***out of you.

Utsusemi is 3 hits you take without losing HP and thus losing zerg damage or even dying. If you're a kclub owner in a shell with a minimum of them, it's arguably better than /DRG. Dualwielding with a kclub is stupid, lowers your average number of hits/round.

EDIT: Referring to situations where CSS is not used for whatever reason.

well if that's your reasoning what about muted soul? shouldn't that be merrited for that so that the damage the kclub is dealing doesn't attract barely any hate? seems kinda sketchy that your tank cant handle something like that since the kclub itself is doing very little damage.

yeah you drk/nin for zerging stuff most of the time, if you go drk/sam drk/drg to KV a bad stun can leave you stunned for most of the duration of bloodweapon lol