Carnwenhan

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Carnwenhan
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 Asura.Massacres
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By Asura.Massacres 2018-05-22 23:55:11
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Is the mythic brd dagger worth it? I would love to push my brd to the max but i can't really justify spending 150+ mil just for 50% song duration, Since my buff songs are already 4-5 min w/o NT. As for debuff duration, Particularly sleep, The duration is more than enough for all endgame stuff.
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By geigei 2018-05-23 00:17:35
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12min songs are pretty. For me the problem is not the gil but the ***you have to do around it.
 Asura.Massacres
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By Asura.Massacres 2018-05-23 00:18:21
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12min with w/o NT?
 Asura.Solymr
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By Asura.Solymr 2018-05-23 00:25:35
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I'll tell you what I enjoy about it. Full time N/T. With nitro songs lasting a couple of minutes longer than the N/T timers it means singing 6x an hour max. That frees me up to do any number of other things. The CP parties I was in getting to master were so fast I honestly dont think I could have kept things staged adequately without that luxury. The increased debuff length doesn't come into play as often but can be helpful in certain ambus etc.

It is definitely a luxury item. And for utility it just doesn't match up with something like yagrush. But for the few folks that call bard a 'main' instead of equipping a 2box to sing for them it is a differentiator. Undoubtedly the last of the rema a brd should get imo.
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By geigei 2018-05-23 00:28:36
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12min with nt.
 Odin.Kealoha
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By Odin.Kealoha 2018-05-23 00:31:57
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So yeah, basically by the time your songs end, N/T is ready to use again. Makes it convenient.
 Quetzalcoatl.Haxxor
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By Quetzalcoatl.Haxxor 2018-05-23 00:45:58
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Every one of these; "Is ... worth it?" are troll post and you guys always fall for this ***. C'mon...

Wait for the people to post saying it's not needed and a luxury item.. oh wait
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-05-23 01:26:54
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Carnwenhan is, in random order

1) A Nice (but no longer BiS) option for ddBRD
2) One of the best options for duration and macc on debuffs
3) The best option for buff duration

Last point is clearly the item seller. It allows you to ride Marcato (50% more potency on one song) and NiTro fulltime, meaning in those ~10 mins you're free to do other things (support, dd, afk, w/e), which generates an interesting change in how you play BRD.

It's kinda a moot point if you're doing content with frequent dispels, because that will *** you up.
During the era when we were spamming Incursion for instance, with its very frequent dispelga, Carnwenhan was pretty meh.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Senaki
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By Quetzalcoatl.Senaki 2018-05-23 10:06:37
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Quetzalcoatl.Haxxor said: »
Every one of these; "Is ... worth it?" are troll post and you guys always fall for this ***. C'mon...

100% not true. People are asking the community their opinions on expensive gears to get a second opinion on its value. It is a perfectly legitimate thing to do before you invest tons of time or gil into something.
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 Fenrir.Richybear
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By Fenrir.Richybear 2018-05-23 10:34:06
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Asura.Massacres said: »
I would love to push my brd to the max but i can't really justify spending 150+ mil just for 50% song duration,


You pretty much answered your own question.
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 Fenrir.Richybear
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By Fenrir.Richybear 2018-05-23 10:36:41
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And that's not to say it's not worth it, I'm in the middle of making one myself. Mostly to be like "ALL THE BARD TOYS!" and then swear endlessly when NiTro songs get dispelled within 30 seconds of a fight. But I knew that going into it.
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 Odin.Drakenv
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-05-23 10:44:09
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Fenrir.Richybear said: »
And that's not to say it's not worth it, I'm in the middle of making one myself. Mostly to be like "ALL THE BARD TOYS!" and then swear endlessly when NiTro songs get dispelled within 30 seconds of a fight. But I knew that going into it.
Then you will be a hot teddy bear bard!?
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 Asura.Massacres
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By Asura.Massacres 2018-06-02 05:18:02
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Can anyone tell me what's the max duration of their song w/o NT but with carn + other full duration gear?
 Asura.Chiaia
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By Asura.Chiaia 2018-06-02 07:13:58
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Asura.Massacres said: »
Can anyone tell me what's the max duration of their song w/o NT but with carn + other full duration gear?
Really to vague of a question. Some songs have more or less gear then others and are you popping certain Job Point enhanced JAs before a certain song, not just NITRO.

Take Victory March
50% Carny
40% Ghorn (This could be 30-50% depending on what REA you are using for a song. Though you really wouldn't cast most songs in anything but a GHorn)
30% Moonbow Whistle +1
12% Fili Hongreline +1
17% Inyanga Shalwar +2
15% Brioso Slippers +3
5% 1200 JP Gift
0-30% Song X gear(10% in this case - Fili Manchettes +1)
No JAs at all
Total: 179% Duration+

120 seconds base duration

floor(120 x 2.79) = 5m 34s (Exactly what I get in game too.)

That same setup replace the Carny with Kali (50% vs 5%) would be a 4m 40s Victory March instead.

Before any JAs are used Carny is always going to be worth 54 extra seconds on a song vs a Kali. (120 x .45)
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 Phoenix.Gerrott
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By Phoenix.Gerrott 2018-06-02 10:14:33
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I don't think anyone has mentioned but the duration is more than just convenience, the duration on SV songs is pretty awesome.
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necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [1103 days between previous and next post]
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By Slowforever 2021-06-09 10:59:39
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most the content I do I have to recast songs which is annoying. Having N/T up for each recast is OP, busted, call it what you like. Sadly honor march isn't mine yet. I feel like thats more important these days. Saves you a song or 3
 Asura.Panasync
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By Asura.Panasync 2021-06-13 14:15:15
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When I answer this specific question I typically try to replace the word 'worth' with the word required. Is Carn required for any content? No, not to my knowledge. As long as you have the rest of the best duration gear, at worst (due to bad use of JA timers), your songs will drop for 10 seconds. I don't even think it changes the game for BRD in any noticeable way as long as you're geared outside of the weapon. It's an expensive minute buffer really.

As long as you have the rest of the duration gear you can either ride your JAs for 20s or simply let the songs finish then reapply, while doing so you're experiencing very little to no downtime in songs duration or strength.

That said, I'm still making one, but it's more out of completion and desire than it being in any way a necessity.

The extra duration on SV is nice, but I'm struggling to think of a fight that lasts the duration of SV songs to where the duration is desired let alone required. And if there is, you can still manipulate the JA timer to get an extra minute/minute and a half of SV songs --> nitro before timer wears.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-06-13 14:31:35
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Asura.Panasync said: »
I'm struggling to think of a fight that lasts the duration of SV songs to where the duration is desired let alone required

Something like Odyssey segment farms. Though you can do exactly what you mentioned (intentionally pop SV and sing normally, then around 45 seconds before SV wears off, you can pop nitro and give full duration songs). Means you have to sing twice instead of once, but you do get a bit longer SV songs than a carn Bard would get from singing once.
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 Asura.Panasync
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By Asura.Panasync 2021-06-13 14:35:37
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Something like Odyssey segment farms. Though you can do exactly what you mentioned (intentionally pop SV and sing normally, then around 45 seconds before SV wears off, you can pop nitro and give full duration songs). Means you have to sing twice instead of once, but you do get a bit longer SV songs than a carn Bard would get from singing once.

Fair point, didn't even cross my mind.
 Shiva.Phioness
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By Shiva.Phioness 2021-06-13 19:13:39
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I was trying to find a mythic on Panastinks list and realize that they don't even have a DP. Anything you say about mythics is meh ya lazy ***.

On to Carny:
Best MagACC/CHA in game and damage if your well equiped running R15/AM3.
In Odyssey/wave 1 dyna-d I can sleep on the fly while killing mobs keeping up buffs and AM3 ( not dual boxing AM3 is a pain).
A STAT overlooked (tough to measure)is that it will get resisted less on sleeps, elegy, etc. . . because its fkn awesome.
On Vir'ava / Albumen / etc ..where every second of sleep counts (depending on pt/alliance) that acc/sleep time helps.
And the big one: (example) At start of Dyna-d (farm session) bust out SV and CC put up those sexy 5 songs , keep em up the whole time baring dispells death), if timed well, 24 of 57 mins of your 1st hour your PT will be crushing it in DPS, makes 6 member farm sessions fun.

Basically your a stronger asset to your team. You can be a good bard or a great bard (turn off youtube, put away the flute, pull out your knife and stab something YA LAZY BARDS)
 Asura.Panasync
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By Asura.Panasync 2021-06-13 22:08:15
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Quote:
You can be a good bard or a great bard

Good point, but something that should probably be kept in mind is that the weapon itself doesn't make you either.

Quote:
On to Carny:
Best MagACC/CHA in game and damage if your well equiped running R15/AM3.

I wasn't implying the weapon wasn't the best dagger available for Bard, I didn't/don't think the amount of MagACC/damage is enough to justify stating that it's worth what the OP suggests based on MACC/non-naegling am3 white damage.


Quote:
In Odyssey/wave 1 dyna-d I can sleep on the fly while killing mobs keeping up buffs and AM3 ( not dual boxing AM3 is a pain).

Outside of saving 3k tp for an AM, this isn't something only people with Carn's are capable of. Also, not to harp on the point of the thread, but do you think for the average player 150m+time it takes to make is worth it because you can have AM3 during W1 DynaD?


Quote:
A STAT overlooked (tough to measure)is that it will get resisted less on sleeps, elegy, etc. . . because its fkn awesome.

I'm stumped on what mob in the the game is so hard to land non-resisted buffs on that you're straight *** if you don't have Carn. Which one was it? Can't argue the fkn awesome point though.


Quote:
On Vir'ava / Albumen / etc ..where every second of sleep counts (depending on pt/alliance) that acc/sleep time helps.

I'm not disputing that the Carn is better than other weapons you could equip in the same slot, my issue is it isn't so much better to the point that you cannot live without it. I've never seen sleep fall without losing the fight prior to that, and that's not to say it doesn't happen, but I certainly wouldn't go out of my way for a problem that doesn't exist for me on a single fight.


Quote:
And the big one: (example) At start of Dyna-d (farm session) bust out SV and CC put up those sexy 5 songs , keep em up the whole time baring dispells death), if timed well, 24 of 57 mins of your 1st hour your PT will be crushing it in DPS, makes 6 member farm sessions fun.

This is probably your most salient point, 20~21m of 57 is nowhere near as good as 24 out of 57. You're right, the math doesn't lie. two to three minutes of extra trash smash power, it takes not just players, but linkshells to that next level of power. *** AV, *** PW, I want that W1 smash power in that first hourrrrrrr.

Quote:
Basically your a stronger asset to your team. You can be a good bard or a great bard (turn off youtube, put away the flute, pull out your knife and stab something YA LAZY BARDS)

Don't need Carn to do this.
 Bahamut.Unagihito
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By Bahamut.Unagihito 2021-06-13 23:35:52
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Shiva.Phioness said: »
put away the flute

Technically, you don't want to put the flute away when you melee:
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 Shiva.Phioness
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By Shiva.Phioness 2021-06-14 22:17:48
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You have two playstyles of Bard:
1. Those who put up songs, sleep, debuff and throw out cures (make that cure set!) basically your a lvl 75 bard on crack+meth (more songs sung fast), but not playing with ALL the sweet new toys.
2 Those who kill mobs, help with dps on boss mobs. People with R15 Carny know nothing beats the TP/WS rate and makes Naegling look SOOOO fkn slow (bard gets ***TP gear). participating in DPS, especially in small man groups = quicker Ambuscade clears, more odyssey currency, etc. In a game that consumes fkloads of time YOU WANT SH!T DONE QUICK.

Panasync im trying to find your experience with AM3 multiattack weapons. I've put together AM3 tp sets for Nirvana, Idris (Brioness), as well as DPS (thf, rng, cor) jobs, and AM3 for support jobs is a game changer.

Technically the flute is in your Gobbie bag (see animation)and you have your knives drawn when DPS bard (where do you think the flute goes when you see the drawn weapons animation.

Also putting up AM1 with Carny allows you to land those Threnody debuffs that are a pain to stick on certain mobs (See Caturae family mobs)
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 Leviathan.Supernads
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By Leviathan.Supernads 2021-06-15 00:32:40
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Shiva.Phioness said: »

Technically the flute is in your Gobbie bag (see animation)and you have your knives drawn when DPS bard (where do you think the flute goes when you see the drawn weapons animation.


What a buzzkill, I always thought my character was sticking it somewhere fun.

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 Asura.Panasync
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By Asura.Panasync 2021-06-15 01:16:46
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Good point, I have no idea how the *** AM3 works in all honesty. It's unlike anything in the game really, and the description is so esoteric it's damn near indecipherable.

I must be lucky and have the best DPS in the game playing with me, I haven't had to carry a party with AM3 yet, jah bless.

Once I get a Carn maybe I can add up all the time in the year I shaved off and probably have enough time to finally read what Occasionally attacks twice or thrice means. Also that extra 5-10 acc on Carn will make me debuff king.
 Cerberus.Mrkillface
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By Cerberus.Mrkillface 2021-06-15 03:01:41
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Some people are just NQ and that's fine.
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 Asura.Panasync
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By Asura.Panasync 2021-06-15 03:47:23
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If only having a Carn could change all that. I blame SE.
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By SimonSes 2021-06-15 03:49:59
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Asura.Panasync said: »
Once I get a Carn maybe I can add up all the time in the year I shaved off and probably have enough time to finally read what Occasionally attacks twice or thrice means. Also that extra 5-10 acc on Carn will make me debuff king.

Mythic AM3 has 60% chance to proc. When it proc you have 1/3 chance it will be triple attack and 2/3 chance it will be double attack. Mythic AM3 proc after QA/TA/DA, so having those will reduce amount of AM3 proc.

5-10 macc over what? R15 Carn has +70macc base and I think another +49 is possible with AM1. So I think its much more than 5-10 macc over next best thing.

EDIT: And Im not taking sides here. Im providing info.
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 Asura.Panasync
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By Asura.Panasync 2021-06-15 03:56:52
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SimonSes said: »

5-10 macc over what? R15 Carn has +70macc base and I think another +49 is possible with AM1. So I think its much more than 5-10 macc over next best thing.

EDIT: And Im not taking sides here. Im providing info.

Unless you're talking about R15 I didn't originally count that. It should be counted, but I didn't originally.

EDIT: It's not really about sides to me. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, but at the moment I don't know anything in the game that needs the small boosts Carn does give.

The song duration is convenience more for the BRD player than their party, it's not something like 99 daur where you're getting an extra song over people who don't have it, or Honor effectively putting 4/5 songs into a single song.

The macc, again, it's nice, but what cannot be debuffed w/o it that could be with it, and even let's say there is a fight, two, or three, at what point can we definitively state it goes from a nice to necessary? I'd argue the same with the damage.

Too much time is wasted stating obvious things like there is a small advantage to having Carn. I don't disagree, it's the magnitude of the advantage and whether people consider that worth the effort.

That's more generally though, and not particularly (at all really) to you specifically, but to those in good faith stating it is better (which I agree with, not what I'm personally pushing back on).
 Asura.Lunafreya
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By Asura.Lunafreya 2021-06-15 04:59:04
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The conversation should start and end with the fact that Carn allows you to full time Marcato Honor March. Doubling 50% more potency on your best song and having that up 100% of the time, barring a mass dispel type of enemy, justifies carn. Re-singing Honor without Marcato and then singing it a third time when Marcato is ready again is wayyy less efficient than just singing it once every 10 minutes whether you’re dd-ing or not. Not to mention you have a period of time where Honor isn’t doubled 1.5x in power resulting in a party wide loss in dps compared to if they had the Marcato’d song the entire time.

And I get that you can manipulate the JA timers to get around this a little bit but it still results in a situation where you could have been doing other things during that time.

As far as "what fight lasts more than 10 minutes anyway?" my response would be: Odyssey segment farms and Dyna D runs, which are two of the most recent and relevant endgame content. Having marcato honor for an entire segment farm/dyna D run is significant.

Edit: also wanted to say people spend way more on way less of a % increase in efficiency.
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